Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion

[Cleon]

He has been telling me that quite a bit, I suppose I'll just have to work through it until he learns the language right?

Does it effectively lower their communication?

Well he means he can't organise the defence and give out instructions etc.

[craney]

Does anyone find any real difference when playing a player in a position he is "competent" in compared to playing in his "Natural" position? Playing as Chelsea Torres and Ba are not ideal as TQ's so i decided to retrain Mata into playing as a striker as he has pretty much everything a good TQ requires and i must say from watching all my games in full he played the role 1st class. I thought he may struggle as it was not his so called natural position but i was very suprised just how well he did. I had been looking for a good striker all pre season and the best one i could find ended up being in my own squad :-)

[lam]

I played Mata at FC/TQ and he was awesome. I always find that as long as a player has the abilities to play in the role you are putting them in.... ie Mata from AMC to FC, then providing he has a basic understanding of the positon then he will do just fine.

HOwever, playing a complicated role when they have no idea about it, regardless of skills doesnt work so well. My case in point is that I am now trying to play with a 142030 Libero and no striker (if that make sense) and my only Libero (Vert) got injured in the first game of the season for 8 weeks....... everyone is just crap there.....

[Bruce Drundrige]

Does anyone find any real difference when playing a player in a position he is "competent" in compared to playing in his "Natural" position? Playing as Chelsea Torres and Ba are not ideal as TQ's so i decided to retrain Mata into playing as a striker as he has pretty much everything a good TQ requires and i must say from watching all my games in full he played the role 1st class. I thought he may struggle as it was not his so called natural position but i was very suprised just how well he did. I had been looking for a good striker all pre season and the best one i could find ended up being in my own squad :-)

I played Mata at FC/TQ and he was awesome. I always find that as long as a player has the abilities to play in the role you are putting them in.... ie Mata from AMC to FC, then providing he has a basic understanding of the positon then he will do just fine.

HOwever, playing a complicated role when they have no idea about it, regardless of skills doesnt work so well. My case in point is that I am now trying to play with a 142030 Libero and no striker (if that make sense) and my only Libero (Vert) got injured in the first game of the season for 8 weeks....... everyone is just crap there.....

Indeed - check the key attributes for the position you are trying to play him in. I play a Natural winger as my Treq/DeepLyingFwd and he does very well because he is very strong in some key attributes even though he's only a Competent SC.

[craney]

Cool sounds like a good move then Do you happen to know how long you need to leave a player training in a new position? I trained Hazard to play AMR which he is now competant at so i removed the new position training to none since i believed he had learnt this new role but a couple of weeks later i noticed that he had now lost the ability to play there and i had to retrain him again?

Any ideas chaps?

[phi0]

Cool sounds like a good move then Do you happen to know how long you need to leave a player training in a new position? I trained Hazard to play AMR which he is now competant at so i removed the new position training to none since i believed he had learnt this new role but a couple of weeks later i noticed that he had now lost the ability to play there and i had to retrain him again?

Any ideas chaps?

You really need to be playing him in the position he's learning. I think I'm right in saying that enough game-time there will 'cement' the competency.

[Cleon]

Cool sounds like a good move then Do you happen to know how long you need to leave a player training in a new position? I trained Hazard to play AMR which he is now competant at so i removed the new position training to none since i believed he had learnt this new role but a couple of weeks later i noticed that he had now lost the ability to play there and i had to retrain him again?

Any ideas chaps?

Every player is different and its down to hidden attributes how quick and successful it'll be. However you need to keep playing him there though when training him and after he's learnt the position or he'll lose it.

[steakfaced]

After reading the whole thread, my Arsenal team are a lot less frustrating. Something as simple as switching the roles (Sometimes Wilshere on the right as an IF/A with a TQ up top, and a DLP in CMR) or sometimes Yaya Toure in CMR as CM/A, Ox as a W/S, and a regen forward as an AF. It's all so simple. Set your base, and adapt based on who you play/who needs to play/who's available. Now if the super dribbles and back post crosses can be fixed..

[Cleon]

After reading the whole thread, my Arsenal team are a lot less frustrating. Something as simple as switching the roles (Sometimes Wilshere on the right as an IF/A with a TQ up top, and a DLP in CMR) or sometimes Yaya Toure in CMR as CM/A, Ox as a W/S, and a regen forward as an AF. It's all so simple. Set your base, and adapt based on who you play/who needs to play/who's available. Now if the super dribbles and back post crosses can be fixed..

You'll have a really great foundation once those issues are fixed if you carry on doing that.

[steakfaced]

You'll have a really great foundation once those issues are fixed if you carry on doing that.

Oh, the club will be unstoppable. I can't wait actually, I never really have a plan with my saves but this one was journeyman. Barca are struggling and that's my favored club, but i can't leave Arsenal until I win with a homegrown 11.

[misterawesome]

Last week I praised you, Cleon. But somewhere between learning and understanding, frustration and tactical meddling ensues. I use a 4-2-3-1 tactic (with many similar positional roles), but I'm applying a lot of the learning here to further my understanding of link up play and had a few questions to make sure I'm applying the right thinking. This thread is especially helpful as I play with Spurs.

I play Bale as an AML, IF-S. My left back of the future is Jack Robinson, who plays best with a Fullback role, not Wingback. With Bale in a support role, would DL with a fullback role provide adequate support, or should I be looking for a different DL?

For MCs, I rotate Sandro and Fellaini as a BWM-D. Could an AP-S play next to them, or would I need to have a deep laying player to manage space in midfield?

Up top, my AMCs are Hamsik or Gylfi, both of whom play best as Trequaristas (I could also use Hamsik as an AP-S as an MCl). However, I've been having some issues getting consistent scoring from my strikers (Bony - POA, Rondon - TM/A or Fierro - POA). Should I be ignoring the suggested roles based on individual player attributes and focus on a system with strikers playing as Trequaristas regardless? If so, what kind of role should an AMC have if one of my CMs is playing as an AP?

[Cleon]

Last week I praised you, Cleon. But somewhere between learning and understanding, frustration and tactical meddling ensues. I use a 4-2-3-1 tactic (with many similar positional roles), but I'm applying a lot of the learning here to further my understanding of link up play and had a few questions to make sure I'm applying the right thinking. This thread is especially helpful as I play with Spurs.

I play Bale as an AML, IF-S. My left back of the future is Jack Robinson, who plays best with a Fullback role, not Wingback. With Bale in a support role, would DL with a fullback role provide adequate support, or should I be looking for a different DL?

For MCs, I rotate Sandro and Fellaini as a BWM-D. Could an AP-S play next to them, or would I need to have a deep laying player to manage space in midfield?

Up top, my AMCs are Hamsik or Gylfi, both of whom play best as Trequaristas (I could also use Hamsik as an AP-S as an MCl). However, I've been having some issues getting consistent scoring from my strikers (Bony - POA, Rondon - TM/A or Fierro - POA). Should I be ignoring the suggested roles based on individual player attributes and focus on a system with strikers playing as Trequaristas regardless? If so, what kind of role should an AMC have if one of my CMs is playing as an AP?

The DL might you'd have to watch a game and see how they interact with each other, that's what I do. But the fullbacks offer the width in a 4231 and need to support attacks or the midfield can get isolated and allow the oppositions wide players to dictate the wings if not set up correctly. So staying back isn't always the best way.

If the MC's are to attack minded then they'll leave big gaps. The 2 MC's are responsible for more defensive duties than actually attacking. They are expected to cover all areas of the pitch. We toouched up on this further up this page if you scroll up. The thing about BWM's is they have high closing down and get dragged out of position a lot. And if one MC gets dragged out of position this can leave a massive gap and cause all sorts of issues.

As for the issue up top, poachers are hard to get to work when they are a lone striker because it all depends and relies on supply. They need the balls to thrive and be effective. But they can be rather static and easy to defend against because he'll always be out numbered. The same issue can be said for the TM in this set up. You need to create space and those type of strikers don't really do that. You'd be better using AF/CF etc because they offer a lot more than the TM and POA.

You should work on the roles that you want from the tactic. First you need to decide on waht type of football you want to play then base the roles/duties on this. If you're unsure of the type of football you want to play then it'll always be hard to choose the correct roles because you have nothing concrete to work towards.

[Cleon]

I really wish I'd made some videos to accompany this thread

Icelander the mod off here as done a piece about creating videos over at my website if anyone is interested. The link can be found here;

http://www.supportsinteractive.com/library/editorials/46-making-football-manager-videos

I might look at adding some videos maybe in the future, or create another thread.

[misterawesome]

If the MC's are to attack minded then they'll leave big gaps. The 2 MC's are responsible for more defensive duties than actually attacking. They are expected to cover all areas of the pitch. We toouched up on this further up this page if you scroll up. The thing about BWM's is they have high closing down and get dragged out of position a lot. And if one MC gets dragged out of position this can leave a massive gap and cause all sorts of issues.

Are you using your MCl as an AP because you have the holding midfielder behind him? Whereas, in a 4-2-3-1 you need more defensive-minded MCs? I've tried a counter-attacking 4-2-3-1 with two DMCs (Felliani Anchor-D; Sandro DM-D) but it has not been effective at all.

As for the issue up top, poachers are hard to get to work when they are a lone striker because it all depends and relies on supply. They need the balls to thrive and be effective. But they can be rather static and easy to defend against because he'll always be out numbered. The same issue can be said for the TM in this set up. You need to create space and those type of strikers don't really do that. You'd be better using AF/CF etc because they offer a lot more than the TM and POA.

I guess my question then is about player ability in sub-optimal roles (sub-optimal in that it is not their recommended role and/or they lack ratings in key attributes). An example from your initial thread had Defoe and Adebayor playing as Trequaristas despite being recommended as a Poacher and AF, respectively. I suppose I am ultimately trying to understand the best AMC-ST pairing to make get better linkup (and/or goal distribution) between the two. I've had success from both positions in the game, but my strikers can disappear for weeks at a time. For what it's worth, I'm bringing in Damiao in the next window, so I can flog one or more strikers. He seems perfectly suited to playing as a lone striker.

You should work on the roles that you want from the tactic. First you need to decide on waht type of football you want to play then base the roles/duties on this. If you're unsure of the type of football you want to play then it'll always be hard to choose the correct roles because you have nothing concrete to work towards.

I was initially drawn to this thread by your desire to play "smart possession" football - not creating tons of chances but making the most out of the ones you have. I want a team that is responsible defensively, but strong on the attack. I'd rather win 2-0 than 7-2. I've been doing this somewhat successfully, but not really understanding why. I've built my own tactic, inspired by many of the posters on this forum, but I really struggle to understand link up play.

My vision involved a defensive-minded midfielder holding down the fort (a BWM), and a more creative midfielder (a DLP type, which has evolved into an AP type based on new players coming into the team) orchestrating the offense, and making charging runs as needed to encourage attack. Then having 3 AMs either creating scoring chances for a lone striker, or contributing some themselves. For what it's worth, here is my idealized formation:

GK - Defend

DL - FB Auto

DC - BPD - Cover

DC - CD - Stopper

DR - FB Auto

MCl - DLP/AP - Support

MCr - BWM - Defend

AMl - IF - Support

AMC - Trequarista - Attack

AMr - W - Attack

ST - Poacher - Attack

[lam]

In my opinion, you are highly dependent on your Poacher having a good game. I may have missed some of your earlier comments so I don't know who it is currently.

My concern with that tactic would be what you do if it is not working. If the opposition sit really deep, what space is your poacher going to be working in? There, it looks like you have three, possibly four players (including the AP) all supplying one man......

If I were me, and players dependant, I'd look to try and get two(ish) playmakers in there. Look for a deeper FC a DLF(S) perhaps and then have an AP(A) behind him and then one IF(A) and another Winger (if you wanted).

This way the FC drops deep into space and uses the channels, so he shouldn't get in anyones way. Your IF(A) moves in to the corner of the box, whilst your AP(A) will make occassional runs (so you might want to consider an AM(A)) into the box, but also uses the FC as a runner whilst he dribbles past the defence to score.

I'm a big fan of the AP in the MC role and I use it nearly all the time, along side a DM(D) or, more recently, a DLP(D), though the DLP is very much skill dependant so don't use it unless you have a QUALITY passer and creator.

You state that you wanted a 'defensive minded midfielder', however, other than an AM(A), you probably couldn't be further from that with a ball winning midfielder.... he will NEVER be where you want him. As you don't have a DM, you WILL want someone staying back with their only duty being to stay back..... a DM(D) with lowered closing down (manual change) works nicely here.

Also note, TQ's do not close down, so you'll need to work out how you will handle two MC's or a DM in the opposition..... another reason why an AM(A) or and AP(S) would be good.... they WILL close down.

For me the IF will need to be looked at. I'm not a fan of the IF(S) as they start to deep and tend to hold their runs. I will only use it if mine are being isolated, which shouldn't happen to much with your formation. But if you play a more creative role in the FC position, then you shouild really consider an IF(A) and he will cause havoc.

[misterawesome]

You're right - a lot depends on my Poachers performance. He can have an 9.0 one game and 6.2 the next. So for my whole team, when it rains, it pours. Here's my standard lineup:

With Bale (or Wellington Nem or Hamsik), IF-A won't be a problem.

Strikers are Bony, Rondon, Fierro with Damiao on the way (Planning to sell Rondon) - one these guys have to work, right?!?!

The guys I'm trying to figure out how to use are mostly Hamsik, Sanchez and Fellaini

Can I play Hamsik at AMC with Sanchez as an MC? With Gylfi as an AMC and Hamsik as a MC? Can I play both Fellaini and Sandro as MCs? I may have misused my terminology - I assume Sandro and Felliani are playing defensively in a BWM-D role.

Ideally, I'd play a version of this away, with Sandro and Fellaini playing as DMs

[MichaelBrown]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the opposition counter (and, lets say, your BWM closes down) then you leave a LOT of space in between the midfield and defence. Thats what I think anyway, I've hardly got a BWM to work for this reason. I'm a fan of the AP (a) and DLP (d)

[lam]

Michael, you are correct, though it would depend somewhat on how high his defence line is.

A Ball Winning midfielder can certainly work, BUT in my view it can not be used as the last line of defence in the midfield, as above. If you had a DM behind him, then it might work nicely.

MA - now that I have seen the team, I'd be massively tempted to use Hamsik as the striker!!! In fact I have been trying to purchase him as my TQ in the FC role for a season or two now, but refuse to pay over 20m for someone his age.

I appreciate that you're not going to do that as you have all the other strikers in the team. Ideally you should have posted the screenies for the strikers as they are the key players here.

Interestingly, and assuming it's WIlfried Bony you have, he has 'comes deep' as a PPM, which in my opinion, does not lend itself well to a text book Poacher. In my save he is incredibly physical and would do very well in any role that requires him to hold up the ball for others. He is a little lacking in the creative department with a relatively low passing and creativity, but he does have good technique. If you want to keep using him, I'd suggest putting some time into raising his decisions as they are only 14 on my save.

Assuming it's SALOMON Rondon you have too, then the same applies to him, though he looks like he could make a very good IF in my save, all that power, agility, balance and strength with high dribbling... he would be hard to stop. Lacks a little acceleration for my liking in the role, but could do it. Arguably, he could play AMC IF(A) as back up too.

Is the last striker Carlos? If so, in my save (start of season three) he looks like he isn'y good enough for your team, so I assume he either has space to grow or has gotten alot better. IN my save he looks like he could be trained for the DLF role, but lacks the strength required for the role.

Having re-read your last post, I noticed that you still have Siggy..... I regret selling him, but he didn't do well in any other role for me other than striker when needed but an AMC, which I don't use.

My MC+ lineup for you would be:

Hasik FC DLF

Siggy AMC AP(S) due to him not dribbling well.

Bale IF

Lennon W

Sando CM(D)

Fellani AP(S/A) his late runs into the box with his power and jumping abilities should see you a few headed goals from bale or lennon crosses

I think a TQ could work in the formation, but you would need to make sure that anyone running from deep is going well past him else they just take up the same space, so you'd need a often RFD on the MC that was doing this. You'd also need to consider a role where your Striker is moving around a lot, so channels and possibly roaming might be required, but not to high on the pitch and then you need someone attacking from teh flanks, so at least one IF(A) on the flanks.

On a seperate note....... four first team, first pick strikers for one position?????????? sounds like an expensive problem is coming your way soon.

[llama3]

I loved the combination of a BWM and a DLP behind a 3rd central midfielder in my FM12 save with Arsenal - well balanced pair because the DLP would tend to sit and the BWM would push on ahead to close down.

[misterawesome]

Ideally you should have posted the screenies for the strikers as they are the key players here.

And the incoming Damiao...

I could cancel that transfer...but it's Damiao. I'm definitely going to sell Rondon, and possibly Bony. Let me now what you think about Carlos. He scored 26 on loan in the Championship at 19 last year.

In my midfield, it sounds like I could easily rotate Sanchez in with Sandro and Fellaini. Fellaini's flexibility is really helpful here.

[misterawesome]

I loved the combination of a BWM and a DLP behind a 3rd central midfielder in my FM12 save with Arsenal - well balanced pair because the DLP would tend to sit and the BWM would push on ahead to close down.

That would essentially be my "backup" midfield, as I could play Yttergard Jenssen, Hamsik or even Fellaini in the role as needed, possibly in away matches.

That configuration was my initial setup on this squad, with Hamsik playing back there. Perhaps he was good at that role, but because DLPs don't tend to get high ratings, I got really frustrated with my 30mil man putting up 6.8s. The role seemed to ignore his incredible attacking skills. He was buried too deep in the formation.

[misterawesome]

I'd suggest putting some time into raising his decisions as they are only 14 on my save.

Sorry one more - how do you train decisions? Increase tactical or attack training?

[lam]

The concern I have with your strikers is that they are all almost identical, just minor changes, which when pairs as a strike combo of two upfront can be great, but to me they just look varying degrees of the same player.

What year are you in? Destro is becoming very good for me, but I think it might be past that date for you.

[mit_p]

How is this going for you? Do you use any special shouts/team tactics?

I'm trying to use a similar tactic with 2 DMCs (a DMC-d, and DLP-s), two defensive wingers on support on the half way line, an AMC-a, and 2 strikers (P-a & DLF-s).

My problem is that i'm conceding all my goals from the wings (hence why i switched to defensive wingers). I'm currently trying to mark the wingers, so we'll see how that goes.

Anyone else trying a similar tactic? I feel like i'm ok going forward, but just shaky at the back.

[llama3]

Sorry one more - how do you train decisions? Increase tactical or attack training?

tactical training

[Chris_l]

How do I get my players to make better use of through balls instead of shooting all the time? I have disabled long shots for all players, given my 3 amc's and 2 mc's the through balls on the highest setting, yet I never see them play a pass into open space that another player will try to rush after. Instead I'm still seeing ridiculous long shots.

I'm playing a strikerless spain tactic by the way

[dooro23]

What passing & mentality settings do the players have, that you expect through balls from?

[misterawesome]

The concern I have with your strikers is that they are all almost identical, just minor changes, which when pairs as a strike combo of two upfront can be great, but to me they just look varying degrees of the same player.

What year are you in? Destro is becoming very good for me, but I think it might be past that date for you.

I'm in 2014 now, playing FM12. It looks like Fierro and Rondon could both play well as Complete Forwards - is that worth a shot? Or keep rolling them out as Poachers, even if their performances are more feast-or-famine? I bought these guys specifically because I had read success stories of them playing as lone strikers, so I'm a little surprised to hear that they won't work in my tactic.

[lam]

No one said they wouldnt work, but you're using them as Poachers and as you have already pointed out, the blow hot and cold.

The reason for all the rest of the chat was to ensure that if you set them up more creatively you had players taking advantage of that. You could certainly use them and some of their phsyical attributes would stand you in very good stead for a number of roles where they bring others into play... for instance a TM(S). The reason why I don't like them per-se is that they are not creative.... sure they might 'do', but there are far better options of players that will bring others into play.

All that said...... there is no better way to see if something works in FM than to test it

JUst put your roles and duties in your head and envision where players on the field will be when you have the ball. Take into account width and roaming settings .

[Chris_l]

What passing & mentality settings do the players have, that you expect through balls from?

everyone in the team has short passing, of the 2 MC's one has a more attacking mentality, the other a more defensive one my AMC and LAM have an attacking mentality my AMRC has a defensive mentality with going forward from behind instructions (to make him a false 9)

I have actually partially solved the problem I think by ticking the "counter attack" box and putting it at yes, ever since I ticked that they shoot a bit less and combine untill they have a decent opportunity to score

This tactic worked wonders for me in fm 2012 it's the only tactic that emulated Guardiola's/Del bosque's tactics allmost spot on. (It's a tweaked variation of a downloaded "play like guardiola" tactic)

Is there somewhere where I can upload my tactic? That way you could have a look at it

[dooro23]

If I'm right in assuming that you changed quite a few slider or other settings manually, then I strongly suggest to you to refrain from doing so and instead read one of the good threads in this forum, like the sticky 12-step-guide for example. This is honestly the best advice one can give, as specific problem solving won't help you with different situations and subsequent new problems. Just trial&error isn't working as well anymore, which is actually a good thing.

This link gives you an idea on why you might be having trouble executing through balls, don't forget to read #14 also:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/193921-difference-between-direct-and-short-pass?p=4932721&viewfull=1#post4932721

[Chris_l]

If I'm right in assuming that you changed quite a few slider or other settings manually, then I strongly suggest to you to refrain from doing so and instead read one of the good threads in this forum, like the sticky 12-step-guide for example. This is honestly the best advice one can give, as specific problem solving won't help you with different situations and subsequent new problems. Just trial&error isn't working as well anymore, which is actually a good thing.

This link gives you an idea on why you might be having trouble executing through balls, don't forget to read #14 also:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/193921-difference-between-direct-and-short-pass?p=4932721&viewfull=1#post4932721

I'm going to experiment right now! Thank you for that link good man! Have a virtual beer on me

[misterawesome]

No one said they wouldnt work, but you're using them as Poachers and as you have already pointed out, the blow hot and cold.

The reason for all the rest of the chat was to ensure that if you set them up more creatively you had players taking advantage of that. You could certainly use them and some of their phsyical attributes would stand you in very good stead for a number of roles where they bring others into play... for instance a TM(S). The reason why I don't like them per-se is that they are not creative.... sure they might 'do', but there are far better options of players that will bring others into play.

All that said...... there is no better way to see if something works in FM than to test it

JUst put your roles and duties in your head and envision where players on the field will be when you have the ball. Take into account width and roaming settings .

I understand what you're saying about the low creativity. I'm hoping that Fierro continues to develop that as he ages. Aside from Jumping and Long Shots, he looks like he could adapt to a Complete Forward role. I don't know that I can stop my transfer of Damiao at this point. So I will definitely be unloading Rondon and possibly Bony ASAP.

If I understand correctly, you'd use a Trequarista in a tactic with a DMC b/c they would drop deeper into the attack, and not drift too far out ahead of the AML/AMR? But in playing with an AMC you would play the lone striker in a support role due to the additional attacking threat?

I see that you suggest I try Hamsik in the DLF striker role - would I need to spend a lot of time training him for that role? It's currently not a position he is even unconvincing in. Alternately, do you think Nem could play that role for me?

Currently, he is my #2 AML/IF-S, behind Bale. Or my #3 Treq behind Hamsik and Gylfi, if needed.

Both guys have "Gets Forward Whenever Possible" for a PPM - this would seem contradictory for a DLF. Is this something I should have them unlearn?

My experimenting has been going okay so far. We're not scoring nearly as much as we used to, which is concerning. It's looking right now that while my Striker (Complete Forward -Support) is dropping deeper, he's competing for space with the AMC

[iMan]

So short passing wont hinder counter attacking in a counter strategy?

[Pipson]

i play the same sort of set up with spurs too, but different style and etc. my question is most of my games tendto come from wingers and my mcl, how do i get my fc to score most of them?

[Falahk]

If I'm right in assuming that you changed quite a few slider or other settings manually, then I strongly suggest to you to refrain from doing so and instead read one of the good threads in this forum, like the sticky 12-step-guide for example. This is honestly the best advice one can give, as specific problem solving won't help you with different situations and subsequent new problems. Just trial&error isn't working as well anymore, which is actually a good thing.

This link gives you an idea on why you might be having trouble executing through balls, don't forget to read #14 also:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/193921-difference-between-direct-and-short-pass?p=4932721&viewfull=1#post4932721

there's nothing wrong with tweaking sliders manually if you understand why you are doing it and what effect it will have

So short passing wont hinder counter attacking in a counter strategy?

nope, it will not hinder a counter attack strategy

[misterawesome]

I do think Arsenal are more suited to a 4231 though. I think a AP support would work great behind a natural poacher and should score bucket loads like in my Newcastle save from FM12 that is in the SI Sports thread.

I've been reading through this thread, while also posting and playing games, so my comments are a little all over the place, but all geared towards playing with an AMC and lone striker. Per the above posts, I'm struggling to convert my forwards to Support roles as they mostly rate as Poachers. If playing an AP-Support in the AMC role, could you also play one at MCl (next to a BWM-D)?

[Cleon]

I've been reading through this thread, while also posting and playing games, so my comments are a little all over the place, but all geared towards playing with an AMC and lone striker. Per the above posts, I'm struggling to convert my forwards to Support roles as they mostly rate as Poachers. If playing an AP-Support in the AMC role, could you also play one at MCl (next to a BWM-D)?

Yes you could but....

The 2 MC's in a 4231 need to be more defensive minded or against half decent teams you'll struggle imo. If one of them goes forward and joins attacks then you leave massive gaps and only have 1 defensive minded midfielder meaning it would be easy to overrun the midfield and go straight through it.

[misterawesome]

I understand what you're saying. Would a DLP next to a BWM achieve that goal? I hear "playmaker" and think "attack minded" (making plays). Whereas, I hear "ball winner" and think "defensive minded" (breaking up opponents plays). You previously brought to my attention that ball-winners aren't really defensive players due to getting pulled out of position, so I'm trying to understand the right type of player to pair with a BWM for the right balance.

I've experimented with a deep 4-2-3-1 with two DMs (DM-D and Anchor-D or DLP-S) but had mixed results as well.

[yonko]

If using a 4-2-3-1 with 2 MCs, I would go for DLP-support + CM-defend combo. But if you insist on using a BWM-defend, then I would go for DLP-defend or CM-defend.

[Cleon]

I understand what you're saying. Would a DLP next to a BWM achieve that goal? I hear "playmaker" and think "attack minded" (making plays). Whereas, I hear "ball winner" and think "defensive minded" (breaking up opponents plays). You previously brought to my attention that ball-winners aren't really defensive players due to getting pulled out of position, so I'm trying to understand the right type of player to pair with a BWM for the right balance.

I've experimented with a deep 4-2-3-1 with two DMs (DM-D and Anchor-D or DLP-S) but had mixed results as well.

A BWM has very high closing down like I mentioned above. So it'll always be risky because at times they'll get caught out of position or pulled to far wide leaving a big gap in the centre. I honestly don't think a BWM is the right type of role for what you need the 2 MC's to be in a 4231 and is one of the reasons why people seem to struggle to create one of the easiest formations to get right on FM. It's because they don't understand the importance of the MC's keeping their shape and not running around like a headless chicken leaving gaps.

To understand more about the DLP you might want to have a read of this and realise they aren't as attack minded as you might be thining they are

Planning Ahead - The Deep Lying Playmaker

[Outliar]

Cleon, what do you say about players with back to goal as their PPM playing as trequartista? Would they be unable to play the AML/AMR cutting in because of that?

[Cleon]

Cleon, what do you say about players with back to goal as their PPM playing as trequartista? Would they be unable to play the AML/AMR cutting in because of that?

I love that PPM for DLF's. It all depends on what you want from a tactic though but I think it could work well with a AML/AMR cutting inside aslong as the Treq still managed to find the same type of space with his back to the goal. Against a DMC though that becomes a lot harder to achieve though imo.

[Levau]

I just wanted to say thanks for this thread Cleon! It really played a big part in opening my eyes regarding the approach to the game. Thanks!

[Wes_Coulam]

Im currently playing on patch 13.1.2 (due to having no internet connection) i think we are on 13.2.2 now so i was just wonderig if upgrading would affect my current tactics . Currently setpu like the OP.

[Rashidi]

Well i guess they would affect your tactics to some extent. And if you don't regularly get a good connection, I would wait for the upcoming patch to do it - if you are enjoying the football

[Wes_Coulam]

Well i guess they would affect your tactics to some extent. And if you don't regularly get a good connection, I would wait for the upcoming patch to do it - if you are enjoying the football

Yea im really enjoying the current patch i am bit worried about the super dribbling i read about to be honest, next time i will have a steady connection is May so probably will wait till then if there is another patch coming out.

[Cleon]

Yea im really enjoying the current patch i am bit worried about the super dribbling i read about to be honest, next time i will have a steady connection is May so probably will wait till then if there is another patch coming out.

Can you only download when your back on dry land then?

[misterawesome]

A BWM has very high closing down like I mentioned above. So it'll always be risky because at times they'll get caught out of position or pulled to far wide leaving a big gap in the centre. I honestly don't think a BWM is the right type of role for what you need the 2 MC's to be in a 4231 and is one of the reasons why people seem to struggle to create one of the easiest formations to get right on FM. It's because they don't understand the importance of the MC's keeping their shape and not running around like a headless chicken leaving gaps.

To understand more about the DLP you might want to have a read of this and realise they aren't as attack minded as you might be thining they are

Planning Ahead - The Deep Lying Playmaker

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on what the right combo would be. Could you do a DLP-S and DLP-D? Is it advisable to have one Defend role and one Support role, or could you do two Defend or two Support?

In a post above (#1166 - I'll save on re-posting so as not to cause unnecessary scrolling), I have posts of two players I am trying to utilize in my squad - Sanchez and Fellaini.

I've tutored Sanchez with Hamsik, and his technical skills seem suited to a DLP role (I had been playing him as an AP), based on what i've read from the "Planning Ahead" post (thanks for that). I'm thinking of tutoring him with Fellaini next to improve some of his mental attributes.

Speaking of Fellaini, his skills seem very broad. He can slot in as a DMC, MC and probably AMC. How easily can I move him around without unsettling him? I'd prefer to play him in a MC role, but could also see him playing as an AMC against teams with a tough DMC.

[Wes_Coulam]

Can you only download when your back on dry land then?

Unfortunately Yes, currently on a weeks downtime in the Dubai but I've flown the girlfriend out for a week so not getting much FM. O board ship i can access the Forum's via my military login on the military network but i can't plug my laptop into any internet source it wouldn't work and i'd metaphorically be raped for it. So the only chances i get is when we get on land. It took me 3 hours on the worlds slowest connection in Crete to activate FM on my laptop (was well worth it! Im in 2020 atm, passed so much time whilst i'm bored and off watch at sea)