Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion

[lam]

.......... but what would you do if an opponent man-marked your Advanced Playmaker out of a game? J

In no particular order

1. CM(A) - if they continue to mark him they would be dragged well out of midfield, giving your other players tons of space and time (though perhaps making the box quite busy).
   
2. CM(D) or anything deep. The reverse of the above, dragg the markers deep and then have someone else running on. It's a semi-trick the AI uses. You want someone attacking? Wouldn't a slightly inferior player be great IF he was UNMARKED in the box?
   

[Willy Knopper]

So am i understanding right, people dont use player or team sliders at all? Its like u choose role your players and thats it like in Cleos posted pics?

I just dont get this year game going on. I lose lose and lose, no matter who im facing i always end losing or 0-0 lucky tie.

[5uare2]

In no particular order

CM(A) - if they continue to mark him they would be dragged well out of midfield, giving your other players tons of space and time (though perhaps making the box quite busy).

CM(D) or anything deep. The reverse of the above, dragg the markers deep and then have someone else running on. It's a semi-trick the AI uses. You want someone attacking? Wouldn't a slightly inferior player be great IF he was UNMARKED in the box?

I ended up doing the first one in that match, it didn't have a significant or discernable impact as far as I could tell, but it didn't matter because Eriksen was bossing the game from the flanks anyway. Still, I'll keep that trick in mind, it'll come in handy. The second one is something that never occurred to me, could work brilliantly - thanks lam!

So am i understanding right, people dont use player or team sliders at all? Its like u choose role your players and thats it like in Cleos posted pics?

I just dont get this year game going on. I lose lose and lose, no matter who im facing i always end losing or 0-0 lucky tie.

Yeah - the team and player instructions are an interface for all the sliders. If that's not something you're familiar with, check out this thread from wwfan, as well as read through all the stuff Cleon, lam and others have written in this thread.

[lam]

So am i understanding right, people dont use player or team sliders at all? Its like u choose role your players and thats it like in Cleons posted pics?

I just don't get this year game going on. I lose lose and lose, no matter who I'm facing i always end losing or 0-0 lucky tie.

Well... you're wrong to a certain degree. I tweak sliders Tons, BUT, and not to sound big headed here, I understand what I am doing to a fairly decent degree, what Cleon and WWfan are trying to do is to discourage players that don't know what they're doing from starting the game/tactic with tons of sliders being tweaked.

So, if you have a good understanding of your tactic and the impact on your whole team of changing just one slider, then go for it, if you don't then leave it alone.

Also, whilst you';re struggling and wanting help if you stick with just roles and duties then we can help more as we can simply discuss them in basic detail rather than trying to understand the impact of 15 adjustments that you may have made.

If you choose a formation and a set of roles that suit your players along with a suitable strategy and style then there is no reason you shouldnt do well.

[Cleon]

So am i understanding right, people dont use player or team sliders at all? Its like u choose role your players and thats it like in Cleos posted pics?

I just dont get this year game going on. I lose lose and lose, no matter who im facing i always end losing or 0-0 lucky tie.

It's like Lam mentioned above, that bit of advice is for people who are struggling or new to the game. Or even people who want to play quick without micro managing. If people feel comfortable and know what the sliders do then there shouldn't be much of an issue. But if you don't fully understand the sliders then you wont understand what you are changing.

[Cleon]

This will be my last tactic thread btw, I've decided I won't be doing them any longer. I do have something else in the pipeline but it isn't to do with tactics.

I'll still try and answer questions relating to this thread though

[Liverbird93]

Thanks very much for this thread it's great! I'm playing with AFC Fylde in the Blue Square North and it's really helped me. I haven't really copied anything just adapted the general principles for my players. I'm not great or anything I still make the wrong decisions in game and make it worse for my team but I'm learning fast and I guess that is what matters. I'm playing a 4-1-2-2-1 but I'm thinking as I haven't come up against a team with a AM yet. (11 games gone) would it be faulty logic to maybe move the DMC into MC. Could this work?

Thanks again for a great thread

[Cleon]

Thanks very much for this thread it's great! I'm playing with AFC Fylde in the Blue Square North and it's really helped me. I haven't really copied anything just adapted the general principles for my players. I'm not great or anything I still make the wrong decisions in game and make it worse for my team but I'm learning fast and I guess that is what matters. I'm playing a 4-1-2-2-1 but I'm thinking as I haven't come up against a team with a AM yet. (11 games gone) would it be faulty logic to maybe move the DMC into MC. Could this work?

Thanks again for a great thread

If a striker drops off the defence and likes to come deep then a DMC is still valuable imo

[Liverbird93]

If a striker drops off the defence and likes to come deep then a DMC is still valuable imo

Never thought about that just assumed that my DC's would deal with them. But I can see the issue it would cause. Thanks Going to stick with the DMC for now and see if my two MC's can create enough

[R0ca]

This will be my last tactic thread btw, I've decided I won't be doing them any longer. I do have something else in the pipeline but it isn't to do with tactics.

I'll still try and answer questions relating to this thread though

Thats a damn shame.

But thanks for your contribution to this forum you've helped out a lot of people Cleon

[ChelseaFan]

If I was to use a similar tactic, would DLF work instead of a Tre? Great threat. Kudos to you sir.

[Simsejensen77]

Yo Cleon!

Good read.. I got a question : May i use this thread to take some screenshots of my tactic, players and ask for some final tweaking? (ive tried alot of things on my own, so i think i could use some help from "outside") - or should i start a completely new thread ?

Would really appreciate it.

[lam]

Sim,

I'm sure Cleon won't mind me answering this one. If you feel that your questions are relevant to the thread then post here. If not then start a new thread and the help you get will be more specific.

[Simsejensen77]

As i understand the topic, its about understanding your tactic. The tactic i made is not the same as the one Cleon has created here, so im abit confused.

What would you suggest lam?

[Karnage94]

As i understand the topic, its about understanding your tactic. The tactic i made is not the same as the one Cleon has created here, so im abit confused.

What would you suggest lam?

I'm not Cleon or lam. But last year in Cleon's thread, Cleon gave me advice and pointed me in the right direction for a while, so much so I was confident enough to write my own thread by the end of FM 2012. If it's about trying to understand your tactic and your ideas, and what you want to achieve then I'd say this is a good place for discussion.

[Simsejensen77]

Thanks for the reply Karnage94. Created a new thread though before i saw it.

Hoping for some feedback on it

[ChefRobGaming]

post #843 works awesome for me, 1st season I used the set up previously in the thread, went through a bit of a rough patch then tried this and its working wonders

[Wes_Coulam]

Such a great thread to read for me after going back to trying my own tactics again, i use the OP as a base standard but often change around player roles and toy with shouts & defensive line & time wasting. I manage in china and i havn't beat Guangzhou for 3 years i even tried the settings posted that Cleon did against barcelona but they still destroyed me i guess i didn't have disciplined enough players & there marking & workrate lacks too. After reading through this thread & lots of others i see the world logical approach all over the shop so i just thought a logical simple approach they have two star players a MC & there STC there STC is Lucas Barrios who is too good for the Chinese league so i double up on him Specific marking from my DMC & DCL as they only had 1 upfront i left my DCR , DL & DR to handle there AML/AMR. I also told one of my midfielders to permanetely mark there MC Dario Conca another class act i specifically played a less technically gifted deep lying playmaker so he would just chase him round all game, finally i told my fullbacks to look for the overlap in an attempt to push back their AML/AMR to chase my fullback this all worked an absolute treat and all seemed "logical" enough in theory and in practice it worked too they had 4 shots and 1 on target we managed 14 , with 4 CCCs & won 5-0 i know finally feel i have the upperhand against Guangzhou it's took me 3 years & about 9 loss's but finally getting the upperhand feels so good.So once again a big thanks to Cleon & all the others who helped in this thread might finally take a Chinese Super Division Title if i can beat them shame no one else does in the league they normally lose 1 game a year and won the league past 4 years in a row.

[Cleon]

Thanks for the reply Karnage94. Created a new thread though before i saw it.

Hoping for some feedback on it

You could have asked for help here

[Cleon]

Such a great thread to read for me after going back to trying my own tactics again, i use the OP as a base standard but often change around player roles and toy with shouts & defensive line & time wasting. I manage in china and i havn't beat Guangzhou for 3 years i even tried the settings posted that Cleon did against barcelona but they still destroyed me i guess i didn't have disciplined enough players & there marking & workrate lacks too. After reading through this thread & lots of others i see the world logical approach all over the shop so i just thought a logical simple approach they have two star players a MC & there STC there STC is Lucas Barrios who is too good for the Chinese league so i double up on him Specific marking from my DMC & DCL as they only had 1 upfront i left my DCR , DL & DR to handle there AML/AMR. I also told one of my midfielders to permanetely mark there MC Dario Conca another class act i specifically played a less technically gifted deep lying playmaker so he would just chase him round all game, finally i told my fullbacks to look for the overlap in an attempt to push back their AML/AMR to chase my fullback this all worked an absolute treat and all seemed "logical" enough in theory and in practice it worked too they had 4 shots and 1 on target we managed 14 , with 4 CCCs & won 5-0 i know finally feel i have the upperhand against Guangzhou it's took me 3 years & about 9 loss's but finally getting the upperhand feels so good.So once again a big thanks to Cleon & all the others who helped in this thread might finally take a Chinese Super Division Title if i can beat them shame no one else does in the league they normally lose 1 game a year and won the league past 4 years in a row.

Nice feeling isn't it when you tactically beat someone?

[loisvale]

How many people keep the philosophy and strategy the same throughout the season? It tend to play balanced and counter most of the time and use shouts to change things. I change the passing quite a bit depending on weather but the philosophy and strategy very rarely. Do others change these settings all the time or not? My coaches are always telling me to have back up tactics trained! If the strategy changes then presumably the roles require tweaking too?

[Cleon]

The roles get auto tweaked (presuming you are using the TC) when you change strategy to suit.

I'll change strategy several times during a match if I feel I need to. I don't touch style (its not philosophy anymore) though unless I am trying to create something different.

[kazm]

Hey i have a question. I see this very often in my games. I'm guessing other people have to cause a lot of people seem to have trouble scoring goals.

I am using a 4-1-2-2-1 balanced counter. What happens is that my front 3 players (AML=IF-s, Striker = TM-s or a, AMR= W-a) dont have any options of playing forward when they get the ball. Basically they are around the edge of the box, they are surrounded, they can either shoot and miss (99% of the time ) or pass back, when they pass back the other forwards havent really moved and so the MC's dont really have a lot of offensive options either. Basically it seems to me that the problem is this: my forwards should be in the box when receiving these passes, instead of deeper. So either they should move up, or my midfield (the wingers are also midfielders so they also count more in this phase then the striker) should move up closer so that when they pass to the striker or the wingers that are up the pitch, those would then get the ball inside the area.

I hope you understand what i mean, I dunno how to say it differently.

Right now i play with a DLf-s, MCd, MCs because i dont have a decent AP, but i had the same thing in a game where i used an AP. Pushing higher up doesnt seem to work. I am using a variety of shouts based on pitch/opponents tactic.

Do you have any 'general' tips or would i have to give more info? I'm not doing bad at all, im conceding 0.5/match just too many 0-0 where i get 10 chances 1ccc

[Cleon]

Hey i have a question. I see this very often in my games. I'm guessing other people have to cause a lot of people seem to have trouble scoring goals.

I am using a 4-1-2-2-1 balanced counter. What happens is that my front 3 players (AML=IF-s, Striker = TM-s or a, AMR= W-a) dont have any options of playing forward when they get the ball. Basically they are around the edge of the box, they are surrounded, they can either shoot and miss (99% of the time ) or pass back, when they pass back the other forwards havent really moved and so the MC's dont really have a lot of offensive options either. Basically it seems to me that the problem is this: my forwards should be in the box when receiving these passes, instead of deeper. So either they should move up, or my midfield (the wingers are also midfielders so they also count more in this phase then the striker) should move up closer so that when they pass to the striker or the wingers that are up the pitch, those would then get the ball inside the area.

I hope you understand what i mean, I dunno how to say it differently.

Right now i play with a DLf-s, MCd, MCs because i dont have a decent AP, but i had the same thing in a game where i used an AP. Pushing higher up doesnt seem to work. I am using a variety of shouts based on pitch/opponents tactic.

Do you have any 'general' tips or would i have to give more info? I'm not doing bad at all, im conceding 0.5/match just too many 0-0 where i get 10 chances 1ccc

Well you're using a target man on support, IF on support and a winger on attack. So when the winger gets the ball and is advanced, he'll be ahead of the supporting players meaning he doesn't have someone advanced to play to. If you really want to use a TM then you need to play to his strengths and make sure he's advanced enough to knock balls on, hold the ball up etc.

Going on what you've posted above I don't see the logic in using a targetman because you don't play a style that suits one. The TM needs people running beyond the lines and supporting from midfield if its to work but you currently don't do that.

[loisvale]

The roles get auto tweaked (presuming you are using the TC) when you change strategy to suit.

I'll change strategy several times during a match if I feel I need to. I don't touch style (its not philosophy anymore) though unless I am trying to create something different.

Many thanks. I assume the plan is to do what " it says on the tin" and when you feel more defence or attack is required then you change appropriately. Or is there any particular science to this changing strategy business during a game! Yes I am using the TC and leave the sliders well alone and rely on the auto tweaks. Any help much appreciated.

[kazm]

Well you're using a target man on support, IF on support and a winger on attack. So when the winger gets the ball and is advanced, he'll be ahead of the supporting players meaning he doesn't have someone advanced to play to. If you really want to use a TM then you need to play to his strengths and make sure he's advanced enough to knock balls on, hold the ball up etc.

Going on what you've posted above I don't see the logic in using a targetman because you don't play a style that suits one. The TM needs people running beyond the lines and supporting from midfield if its to work but you currently don't do that.

Ok thanks. I didnt think i had the right strikers to use a TQ, i have a big header and a young poacher basicly. Playing as Wycombe. What would you advise with this type of midfield?

[lam]

Ok thanks. I didnt think i had the right strikers to use a TQ, i have a big header and a young poacher basicly. Playing as Wycombe. What would you advise with this type of midfield?

Well, between Cleon and I we have shown that you can use: Adebeyor, Neymar, Cavani, Mata, Defoe, Destro and I'm sure a few others too.....

[kazm]

Well, between Cleon and I we have shown that you can use: Adebeyor, Neymar, Cavani, Mata, Defoe, Destro and I'm sure a few others too.....

Yeah I know I just thought they would require at least some basic attributes. I mean they are nowhere near that level ofcourse.

Will try TQ ty for the help.

[RTHerringbone]

This will be my last tactic thread btw, I've decided I won't be doing them any longer. I do have something else in the pipeline but it isn't to do with tactics.

I'll still try and answer questions relating to this thread though

That's a genuine shame, this thread is the most informative I have seen relating to tactics in FM13. I look forward to whatever your next thread is,plus your ongoing participation in the forum.

[varyy]

Well you're using a target man on support, IF on support and a winger on attack. So when the winger gets the ball and is advanced, he'll be ahead of the supporting players meaning he doesn't have someone advanced to play to. If you really want to use a TM then you need to play to his strengths and make sure he's advanced enough to knock balls on, hold the ball up etc.

Going on what you've posted above I don't see the logic in using a targetman because you don't play a style that suits one. The TM needs people running beyond the lines and supporting from midfield if its to work but you currently don't do that.

I have a similar problem, playing with the setup used at the start of this thread. I have 2 IFs on attack, a striker Treq on attack, and a AP from the CM position on attack. As one of my IFs cuts inside, the Treq, AP, and other IF aren't making any runs in to give the IF any passing options. The result is of course usually a long shot from that inside cutting IF. Any advice on what attacking roles would give my IFs more passing options would be greatly appreciated. I know this is fairly basic stuff, but I am but a noob. Thank you!

[anorthernboy]

wow concede alot of goals using this tactic with Liverpool. wow.

[Cleon]

wow concede alot of goals using this tactic with Liverpool. wow.

It's what happens when people don't read what the thread is about and just copy and the reason I didn't make it a download. The thread is about understanding your tactic rather than copying it and learning why it works.....

Thanks for the insightfully indepth and thorough feedback though

[anorthernboy]

It's what happens when people don't read what the thread is about and just copy and the reason I didn't make it a download. The thread is about understanding your tactic rather than copying it and learning why it works.....

Thanks for the insightfully indepth and thorough feedback though

Apologies for my briefness. had a frustrating day on fm.

i cant seem to defend crosses into the box. i use the 451 lay-out, short passing counter attacking football. i set the creative freedom and roaming to default as Liverpool dont have many flairy players.

i went for your system as i feel it suits the Liverpool squad.

Agger and skrtel are decent centre backs with enrique and johnson complimenting them at wing back.

lucas leiva, gerrard, sahin and joe allen is not the weakest of midfields.

i buy wellington nem for the right IF and then sterling or downing on the left IF slot.

suarez makes for a good TQ.

i use the 7 shouts from the start and try to introduce extra shouts as the game pans out.

27 games gone in the league and ive scored 66 goals ( impressive ) but conceded 42.

ive brought in Kryjjf as assistant to boost my tactics training to 4.5 star which will hopefully help. my defense training is 4.5 star at the moment.

i know the tactics impact will vary squad by squad but i feel the players fit the mould so its frustrating.

[lam]

So, you're part way through the thread? Keep reading..... There is a wealth of feedback and information in here from lots of people.

For what it's worth, though I'm sure I mentioned this before, I start the games with NO shouts at all.

Also. I have BY FAR the best defence in the league..... by a long way. So, it's not about the system and more about the tactic as a whole.

[Deego619]

Cleon, I notice from the OP that you pay Gareth Bale, a left footed player as a IF on the left hand side. I was under the assumption that you need to play the player on the opposite side to his preferred foot to get the best from a IF. How is most of Bale's goals scored? Is it due to his own individual brilliance or is it set on a plate for him from Defoe/Dembele etc?

[Falahk]

Cleon, I notice from the OP that you pay Gareth Bale, a left footed player as a IF on the left hand side. I was under the assumption that you need to play the player on the opposite side to his preferred foot to get the best from a IF. How is most of Bale's goals scored? Is it due to his own individual brilliance or is it set on a plate for him from Defoe/Dembele etc?

Cleon have already responded to this (ether on this very page or a page back, and also mentioned it in the op)

I think footing is a lot more important then Cleon does, but I would probably still play Bale on the left so that he can cross if he gets into a good position to do that while I would play a left footed player (Dembele) on AMR to produce variation in my attacking play

[Deego619]

Cleon have already responded to this (ether on this very page or a page back, and also mentioned it in the op)

I think footing is a lot more important then Cleon does, but I would probably still play Bale on the left so that he can cross if he gets into a good position to do that while I would play a left footed player (Dembele) on AMR to produce variation in my attacking play

Ah sorry, just seen it now. Apologies, didn't mean to sound disrespectful to what has already been contributed to a fantastic thread.

[Cleon]

Apologies for my briefness. had a frustrating day on fm.

i cant seem to defend crosses into the box. i use the 451 lay-out, short passing counter attacking football. i set the creative freedom and roaming to default as Liverpool dont have many flairy players.

i went for your system as i feel it suits the Liverpool squad.

Agger and skrtel are decent centre backs with enrique and johnson complimenting them at wing back.

lucas leiva, gerrard, sahin and joe allen is not the weakest of midfields.

i buy wellington nem for the right IF and then sterling or downing on the left IF slot.

suarez makes for a good TQ.

i use the 7 shouts from the start and try to introduce extra shouts as the game pans out.

27 games gone in the league and ive scored 66 goals ( impressive ) but conceded 42.

ive brought in Kryjjf as assistant to boost my tactics training to 4.5 star which will hopefully help. my defense training is 4.5 star at the moment.

i know the tactics impact will vary squad by squad but i feel the players fit the mould so its frustrating.

Well if you've read the thread you'll see and know that the tactic is set up for the AML to be the main striker and the main goalscorer. You seem to be scoring a few goals but neither Downing or Sterling are good enough for how its currently set up imo.

The tactic is set up to take advantage of the Spurs squad and while you have decent players I don't believe the squad you start with is capable of playing the exact way I did in the opening post.

What other shouts do you try and introduce? You shouldn't need to use hardly any more in all honesty. In fact for the squad you have I don't think you should start with the 7 either as they don't suit your squad.

What other changes are you making in game?

Have you used the analysis tab to see what types of goals you are conceeding?

[Cleon]

Cleon, I notice from the OP that you pay Gareth Bale, a left footed player as a IF on the left hand side. I was under the assumption that you need to play the player on the opposite side to his preferred foot to get the best from a IF. How is most of Bale's goals scored? Is it due to his own individual brilliance or is it set on a plate for him from Defoe/Dembele etc?

Both. He scores some that are layed on and he scores some that are sheer brilliance.

Footedness can be important but you don't have to play players on the opposite sides and they can still be effective and play out of their skin.

Cleon have already responded to this (ether on this very page or a page back, and also mentioned it in the op)

I think footing is a lot more important then Cleon does, but I would probably still play Bale on the left so that he can cross if he gets into a good position to do that while I would play a left footed player (Dembele) on AMR to produce variation in my attacking play

In theory that doesn't work in this set up though and you have to take into consideration how the tactic is set up and what you are wanting from it.

[anorthernboy]

Well if you've read the thread you'll see and know that the tactic is set up for the AML to be the main striker and the main goalscorer. You seem to be scoring a few goals but neither Downing or Sterling are good enough for how its currently set up imo.

The tactic is set up to take advantage of the Spurs squad and while you have decent players I don't believe the squad you start with is capable of playing the exact way I did in the opening post.

What other shouts do you try and introduce? You shouldn't need to use hardly any more in all honesty. In fact for the squad you have I don't think you should start with the 7 either as they don't suit your squad.

What other changes are you making in game?

Have you used the analysis tab to see what types of goals you are conceeding?

i tend to use the "exploit the middle" shout as i agree i could have better wide men. i guess this conflicts with the AML being the main goalscoring threat,doh.

i have used the analysis tab. i seem to be concedeing from central areas. shots from in and around the penalty spot.

one thing ive noticed is lucas leiva likes to "move into chanels" which is probably why im conceding space in them areas. a bit of retraining needed for him i think.

i have played the game since Champ Manager Italia and have enjoyed everyone since. i find this match engine a little crazy. i beat chelsea 8-2 at Anfield and drew 6-6 with arsenal at the Emerates.

im currently re-training suarez for the AML position but have little to no funds for a new TQ. my other strikers lack in the key attribute areas, mainly agility.

i love how this tactic plays (and so do the board) and i am keen to stick with it.

[janeka]

Hello everyone.

For the first time I decided to create a tactic using TC and implement shouts. I haven't read this thread yet, but I will read it from the beginning. I started a new game with Hibernian.

I choose to play with a normal 4-4-2. Here's my start line-up and their roles:Formation

All the team settings are default (Passing Style, Creative Freedom, etc), because I dont know what to choose (I hope I will know after read this and other threads)

GK - Ben Williams

DR - David Wotherspoon

DL - Lewis Stevenson

DC - James McPake

DC - Paul Hanlon

RW - Luigi Bruins

LW - Pa Saikou

BWM - Tom Taiwo

DLP - Paul Cairney

DLF - Owen Doyle

P - Leigh Griffiths

In terms of strategy, I am using Loverleaper's approach. In terms of shouts, the only one I've been using is "Exploit the flanks" shout against teams that plays with three players in midfield.

Now i will read all this thread, and after all my reading I will use what I learn and post what I did.

Any help will be welcome.

And sorry for my English

[Grokaer]

Hi Cleon,

Great thread by the way. Hope you are well.

Coincidentally, I have played a similar style to your opening setup with the odd tweak here and there depending on the players available to me (I play as Liverpool) ever since reading wwfan's Barcelona interpretation thread from Sept 2011 (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/275877-The-Barcelona-Style-My-Interpretation). The formation I use is the same 41221 as in your opening post (although can switch towards 4231 or 352 version equivalents if I feel the need depending on the opposition quality (or rather where their quality is) and how the opposition have lined up).

I am wondering if you can clear something up that is confusing me please?

wwfan specifically set marking to zonal on the tactic and uses the hassle opponent shout and worded it like so:

Zonal Marking: Actually, not really needed as the shouts will determine this. However, I believe they mark zonally in reality, so....

Hassle Opponent: Ensures heavy pressing from all players

Now I could be completely wrong (I usually am - edit always am where my wife is concerned) but I always interpreted that the Hassle Opponent was merely a "closing down" instruction but you are saying that it also marks men tightly? WWFan seems to suggest it is more zonal (I think) and I always prefer a more zonal approach as straight man for man has proved costly before with previous MEs moving players your DCs are marking for example all over the pitch which moves your DC all over the pitch and leaves a hole in the centre of your defence.

So, I was wondering if you would be able to explain about this a bit more to me please, has the shout changed or is my interpretation incorrect. Is it like the old tactical setting where we could set zonal / man marking and then further tweak by setting the marking to loose / tight?

Many thanks for this thread, it helps in my ongoing education, as has the insights provided by lam on occasion.

Take care

Grokaer

[lam]

Using the shout "Hassle Opponents" makes all your players MAN MARK and MARK TIGHTLY, regardless of other team instructions. The only way around this is to manually set your players marking instructions one by one. I have changed all my players to ZONAL marking thus when/if I use "Hassle" my players will now TIGHT MARK but not MAN MARK.

Given the understanding of Man Marking in the match engine I would 'assume' that WWfan was refering to the fact that MAN MARKING is very close, in terms of implementation, to a very aggressive ZONAL MARKING system.

In the match engine, with ZONAL MARKING if someone enters their zone, the players will mark them, once they leave the zone, your players will return to their default position. Now in a MAN MARKING system in the ME, your players are still triggered by a ZONAL area, however when a player enters their area, your men will now stay with them, regardless of where the ball is, until you gain possession.

Thus, the two systems start almost identically but end very differently.

[zhiyuan]

Hi Cleon, first of all, what a great post this is, especially so when I have also just finished my first season with Spurs (starting with a lone striker first half of the season and move on to two (bought Falcao in January) and finish the season with 4-1-2-1-2 diamond).

Quick question - does Cavani do well in TREQ for you?

[nick1408]

G'day Cleon,

I saw you say your AML is your main goalscorer. Please forgive me if you explained this earlier but is your AML in line with the striker line or the attacking midfield line? The reason I ask is I am currently playing an Everton game and was having trouble getting Jelavic to score. I decided to go back to a two striker system playing a narrow diamond. I was concerned about the lack of width in my side. In the first game using the new formation (against PSG in a friendly) I lost Jelavic to injury. He is really my only out-and-out striker. I was using Naismith and Gueye as the DLF. Once Jelavic was gone it struck me that moving these two into the old FR/FL positions and setting them as IF(a) may draw the defence wider and allow my AMC (set as an AM(a)) to score some cheap goals. The formation ended up as this:

And the result was:

[video=youtube;OCVMOxDpgeQ]

I have highlighted Drage to note how from the midfield he moved. The drive up the wing by Janmaat, passing to Gueye in AMR before a short cross to Drage is pretty much what I was after. Once Gueye got the ball the second time the defence all went to close him down leaving Drage to slip past one man and slot the goal. While the game finished at 2-1 the goal PSG got was a failed clearing head by Danny Batth headed into the back of the net. I feel the small change may have worked but I think it may be more lethal if teamed up with a treqatista in AMC rather than an attacking midfielder.

Finally, I think people may be loathe to put an AMR/AML so far up the pitch for fear of them not dropping back. In the video above note how deep Gueye comes from. The ball starts on or around halfway and so does Gueye, leaving a lot of space for him to run into. Again, apologies if you have already made this move and I missed it but I am interested to see if you are also using this advanced position.

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon,

Great thread by the way. Hope you are well.

Coincidentally, I have played a similar style to your opening setup with the odd tweak here and there depending on the players available to me (I play as Liverpool) ever since reading wwfan's Barcelona interpretation thread from Sept 2011 (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/275877-The-Barcelona-Style-My-Interpretation). The formation I use is the same 41221 as in your opening post (although can switch towards 4231 or 352 version equivalents if I feel the need depending on the opposition quality (or rather where their quality is) and how the opposition have lined up).

I am wondering if you can clear something up that is confusing me please?

wwfan specifically set marking to zonal on the tactic and uses the hassle opponent shout and worded it like so:

Zonal Marking: Actually, not really needed as the shouts will determine this. However, I believe they mark zonally in reality, so....

Hassle Opponent: Ensures heavy pressing from all players

Now I could be completely wrong (I usually am - edit always am where my wife is concerned) but I always interpreted that the Hassle Opponent was merely a "closing down" instruction but you are saying that it also marks men tightly? WWFan seems to suggest it is more zonal (I think) and I always prefer a more zonal approach as straight man for man has proved costly before with previous MEs moving players your DCs are marking for example all over the pitch which moves your DC all over the pitch and leaves a hole in the centre of your defence.

So, I was wondering if you would be able to explain about this a bit more to me please, has the shout changed or is my interpretation incorrect. Is it like the old tactical setting where we could set zonal / man marking and then further tweak by setting the marking to loose / tight?

Many thanks for this thread, it helps in my ongoing education, as has the insights provided by lam on occasion.

Take care

Grokaer

Using the shout "Hassle Opponents" makes all your players MAN MARK and MARK TIGHTLY, regardless of other team instructions. The only way around this is to manually set your players marking instructions one by one. I have changed all my players to ZONAL marking thus when/if I use "Hassle" my players will now TIGHT MARK but not MAN MARK.

Given the understanding of Man Marking in the match engine I would 'assume' that WWfan was refering to the fact that MAN MARKING is very close, in terms of implementation, to a very aggressive ZONAL MARKING system.

In the match engine, with ZONAL MARKING if someone enters their zone, the players will mark them, once they leave the zone, your players will return to their default position. Now in a MAN MARKING system in the ME, your players are still triggered by a ZONAL area, however when a player enters their area, your men will now stay with them, regardless of where the ball is, until you gain possession.

Thus, the two systems start almost identically but end very differently.

What Lam said above

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon, first of all, what a great post this is, especially so when I have also just finished my first season with Spurs (starting with a lone striker first half of the season and move on to two (bought Falcao in January) and finish the season with 4-1-2-1-2 diamond).

Quick question - does Cavani do well in TREQ for you?

I don't have Cavani...

But if you actually read the thread you'll see other post who have used him and see they felt he came to deep.

I suggest you actually read the thread though

[Cleon]

G'day Cleon,

I saw you say your AML is your main goalscorer. Please forgive me if you explained this earlier but is your AML in line with the striker line or the attacking midfield line? The reason I ask is I am currently playing an Everton game and was having trouble getting Jelavic to score. I decided to go back to a two striker system playing a narrow diamond. I was concerned about the lack of width in my side. In the first game using the new formation (against PSG in a friendly) I lost Jelavic to injury. He is really my only out-and-out striker. I was using Naismith and Gueye as the DLF. Once Jelavic was gone it struck me that moving these two into the old FR/FL positions and setting them as IF(a) may draw the defence wider and allow my AMC (set as an AM(a)) to score some cheap goals. The formation ended up as this:

And the result was:

[video=youtube;OCVMOxDpgeQ]

I have highlighted Drage to note how from the midfield he moved. The drive up the wing by Janmaat, passing to Gueye in AMR before a short cross to Drage is pretty much what I was after. Once Gueye got the ball the second time the defence all went to close him down leaving Drage to slip past one man and slot the goal. While the game finished at 2-1 the goal PSG got was a failed clearing head by Danny Batth headed into the back of the net. I feel the small change may have worked but I think it may be more lethal if teamed up with a treqatista in AMC rather than an attacking midfielder.

Finally, I think people may be loathe to put an AMR/AML so far up the pitch for fear of them not dropping back. In the video above note how deep Gueye comes from. The ball starts on or around halfway and so does Gueye, leaving a lot of space for him to run into. Again, apologies if you have already made this move and I missed it but I am interested to see if you are also using this advanced position.

I've not changed the shape at all, I use the player positions that are in the opening post.

The AML at times is the highest person upfield as the Treq drops deep so the AML pushes up and almost becomes the lone striker. This whole tactic is based around the Striker dropping deep as this creates the space for the 2 wide players to run into and exploit.

[Cleon]

Hello everyone.

For the first time I decided to create a tactic using TC and implement shouts. I haven't read this thread yet, but I will read it from the beginning. I started a new game with Hibernian.

I choose to play with a normal 4-4-2. Here's my start line-up and their roles:Formation

All the team settings are default (Passing Style, Creative Freedom, etc), because I dont know what to choose (I hope I will know after read this and other threads)

GK - Ben Williams

DR - David Wotherspoon

DL - Lewis Stevenson

DC - James McPake

DC - Paul Hanlon

RW - Luigi Bruins

LW - Pa Saikou

BWM - Tom Taiwo

DLP - Paul Cairney

DLF - Owen Doyle

P - Leigh Griffiths

In terms of strategy, I am using Loverleaper's approach. In terms of shouts, the only one I've been using is "Exploit the flanks" shout against teams that plays with three players in midfield.

Now i will read all this thread, and after all my reading I will use what I learn and post what I did.

Any help will be welcome.

And sorry for my English

Hi

Let me know if you have any questions after reading the thread

[Falahk]

I've not changed the shape at all, I use the player positions that are in the opening post.

The AML at times is the highest person upfield as the Treq drops deep so the AML pushes up and almost becomes the lone striker. This whole tactic is based around the Striker dropping deep as this creates the space for the 2 wide players to run into and exploit.

the idea is indeed to pull the defense out of shape with the striker, then flood any gaps that show up with the inside forwards and one or both central mids and to do this at pace with the counter attack, kind of how Roma played during the Spalletti era