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How to Play FM13: A Twelve Step Guide

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I would like to give an idea.

Perhaps wwfan, or cleon, could make a thread about stats analysis. With a couple of "template" games they could illustrate to us how we should read and interpret the stats.

Simple things like "having too much long shots". We see this and the first thing we do is putting long shots to rare in every player. But perhaps looking at the stats and maps we could come to the conclusion that the problem is much more related with the team not having enough space.

As i said... just an idea. :)

I don't think a pure stats analysis is that helpful. The analysis screens (heatmap, passing, interceptions) and watching the match are all far more useful than the stats. People who only focus on stats tend to drift towards tactical styles that generate a lot of possession and shots, but aren't very efficient.

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Wwfan, this is such a great thread, but don't you agree that from all these questions it is pretty clear that there must be better in-game explanations as to how to get a tactic to work and how everything is connected, what does what and so on?

I do think there needs to be better in-game instruction. However, I also think that these forums and the community are to blame for the misinformation surrounding FM. As long as you apply basic football logic, you'd have not missed a beat since FM07. However, that type of knowledge gets drowned out by the super-tactics brigade, which is purely based on gamey exploitation. Now that this isn't working, people are hitting a steep learning curve that probably should never have been so steep.

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So like I said some post earlier I'm new in making tactics.

When I start with a club I think it will take a time to make a good tactic, because everything is new to me. Should I start with a good club, because of the better players which make it easier or can I better start with a lower time, because they will give me the time?

Which experience do I give myself? A nobody or proffesional player?

Depends on how easy you want it to be.

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Ok a few obvious issues are:

  • Untick your custom instructions. The fact you are coming in here says you are not familiar enough with what they are doing to use them properly.
  • Your role and duty selections are poor. You are not going to win every game with a counter attack, get your left back off a defensive duty.
  • Short Passing generally does not suit quick counter-attacking football

Although I agree with your advice on custom sliders and roles/duties, I don't with your strategic advice. The styles/philosophies are very plastic. You can build a very effective short-passing counter system (see my Barcelona thread for example) and win pretty much everything using it, as long as the structure is logical.

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Although I agree with your advice on custom sliders and roles/duties, I don't with your strategic advice. The styles/philosophies are very plastic. You can build a very effective short-passing counter system (see my Barcelona thread for example) and win pretty much everything using it, as long as the structure is logical.

I used the term "Generally" though - I am aware you can build a good short passing, counter-attacking style.

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I used the term "Generally" though - I am aware you can build a good short passing, counter-attacking style.

People take thing very literally. It's much better to find out how they envisage their tactic to play out, then offer advice around that vision. It might be that a short passing, counter-attacking tactic perfectly fits his vision. It's our job to try and help him do that, not impose our own philosophy or preference on him.

Not easy to do, but should always be in the back of your mind. Questions first, then advice.

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People take thing very literally. It's much better to find out how they envisage their tactic to play out, then offer advice around that vision. It might be that a short passing, counter-attacking tactic perfectly fits his vision. It's our job to try and help him do that, not impose our own philosophy or preference on him.

Not easy to do, but should always be in the back of your mind. Questions first, then advice.

Point taken, will bear that in mind.

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just looking for a little bit of help, im blackburn just got promoted but im struggling at the minute towards bottom of table. I set up like this, 4-2-3-1

GK - Defend

Full back Left Attack

Central Defender defend

Central Defender defend

Full back Right defend

Ball Winngin Midfielder Defend

Deep Lying Playemaker Support

Winger Left Support

Attacking Midfielder Support

Winger Right Attack

Poacher

I play with control and balanced philosphy

I am having more shots and majority of possesion but seem to be getting beat by the old goal all the time, is there anything obvious I can change, any help or suggestions much appreciated

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Love all the tactical situations but

The throw in and my keeper goal kicks need sorting because it negates half the tactics

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Just used this guide and I've managed to scrape into the Champions League groups with Motherwell beating Copenhagen and Malaga, so thanks a lot.

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Like a number of people ive been really struggling this year but ive just managed my first points of the season after going through this guide and setting up my tactics to favour my strikers who are great at heading the ball and getting as many crosses as possible in the box.

Ended up winning 3-0 which im really happy for as i was getting really fed up :D

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Have to say the ideas in this thread have really helped me crack a striker less formation. I was initially trying to get a very fluid style of play with a midfield packed with playmakers and a trequartista. Since removing all specialist roles and playing very fluid / control I've had some really pleasing results with the most effective movement between lines I've seen from a tactic in a while.

Cheers ?

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Quality Thread WWFAN!!! For the past three/four FMs ive just downloaded other peoples tactics but this year i'm out at sea & can't get my laptop online (posting through works computer) so i had to create my own tactic. Following your guide i managed to take Rizhiquan from the Chinese First division two mid table Chinese Prem in 3 seasons. I then got offered the Shendong job which i took i steered them from 11th to 5th in the last final 8 games with the best form in the league & my best moment was when i was playing 442 losing on possesion and stat wise switched to 451 at HT played counter with a IF & my IF went onto score & i won 1-0. Using my own tactics gives me much more satisfaction and more enjoyment and looking at why i lose was it tactic shape/shouts/bad teamtals is really making me enjoy my save in my 4th season now with Shendong Can't wait for it. so thanks for this thread & KUTGW!Also do you have a specific set piece set up i want to start scoring more well just score the most in the league i have the best set piece taker in the league & i have a long throw specialist too. (We will be like a possesion based stoke).Final question i have a player who is without doubt more creative and more skillful than anyone in the league i play 451 some games & others 442 but in my 451 i've been trying to put him onthe AML as AP/IF & tweaked his instrctuions max CF & Roam Dribble basically do what you want and run riot like messi but he played a 5.7 that game i brought him off after 50 mins. I then used him as a IF he played a 8 but i want him to be the centre point for the team do you have any suggestions how to do this? Even dropping him in as a AM in my 442 just cant get his personal instructions right.

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1: Be prepared to admit you have a problem and need to change your approach. Until you do, nobody can help you.

I do have a problem indeed. I can't win games, no matter what I do. Several different saves, several different tactics, several different setups = same results, I get humiliated.

2: Unless you are 100% sure you know what each and every slider does and how they interact, abandon them. Don't manually tweak a single setting. Embrace the TC (at least in the short term). Only use the playmaker and target man checkboxes to specify them and the TM's supply type (should you wish to).

Tried that. Tried downloading tactics, tried reading all the guides in here from all the smart people. Tried creating tactics inspired by them. Spent more than a week reading, thinking, tinkering. No luck.

3: Become aware that the strategy names are more plastic than they seem. The defensive strategy still attacks on the counter, whereas the attacking strategy can still be defensively solid. Bar the two extremes (Contain and Overload), each strategy is both defensive and attacking. A good rule of thumb is that if you want to play with a lot of deep midfielders and a short passing game, choose a less attacking strategy, whereas if you want to have high, effective wingers and a direct style, choose a more attacking strategy. Choose and save three core strategies for your trained tactics, but don't worry about the reserve ones or how well trained they are. Just focus on a specific style and use that as your base tactic in all matches until you are becoming more confident about your decision making.

Been there done that a few years back even. FM2013 is the first game where I can't create a winning tactic. I've managed to win everything in every single other CM/FM ever released. Yes, EVERY SINGLE VERSION OF THE GAME since the Amiga games in 1991. This is the FIRST time EVER I haven't been able to start up the game, create my tactic and get reasonable results from the beginning.

4: Focus on roles and duties in the TC. Make sure you have one Attack duty in defence, one Attack and one Defend in midfield, and one Support in attack (especially if you have a lone FC). Make sure you have at least one no-nonsense, hard-working midfielder role. If you want to use a PM, will he be in the best position to hurt players, or will your approach see him isolated (see point eleven).

Already sorted, everything is set up logically according to TT&F and the power of 5 (which I've always sworn by).

5: Look at the team comparison page to determine how strong / weak your team is to the divisional average. Use the tactical adjustments to take advantage of / cover for this (e.g. if you have a very slow or lazy team, stand off more, whereas if they are quick and hard-working, press more)

Never needed to do this before, why is this a necessity now?

6: Use the shouts to develop and save a favoured playing style, which should also suit your team strengths / weaknesses. For example, a highly technical team can sit deep and counter at pace, so using retain possession, pass into space, run at defence with a counter strategy may be worthwhile. A less technical but more physical team might want to impose themselves in a different way, so consider using get ball forwards, hit early crosses, get stuck in with an attack strategy.

I don't use shouts, I don't like them. Why do I have to use them now?

7: Before each match, look at the weather conditions and the opposing team's formation to determine your match strategy. It can be very difficult to counter attack on a heavy, chewed up pitch, so you might have to abandon your preferred style and play an uglier game. You might want to expose an opponents lone wide player formation and exploit the flanks or look for overlap. You might be happy with your starting system.

I've never had to care about weather and opposing formations before. Why do I have to do that now?

8: Look at the opposing team formation or player condition / skills and use OIs to counter them. You could use OIs to counter dangerous players or stop crosses coming in, or to target unfit, slow or cowardly players.

Again, it's never been a necessity before, why is it now?

9: Play the match. During the game, don't be afraid to change things up through shouts and strategies if things are not working. Do it logically rather than willy nilly though. For example, you might think that sitting deeper and countering will produce more chances than becoming more aggressive, as it will pull the opposition out a bit more. Once you've scored, decide whether you want to push for more goals or hang onto a lead and change things / keep things the same based on that decision.

And once again, I've never had to change all that much except subs and maybe a few little details during a game before, why is this a "must" now?

10: Realise that teamtalks are contextual. They do not relate to the scoreline, rather how expected the scoreline is versus the quality / reputation of the opposition and the football you actually played. Sometimes you can be delighted at 0-0, at other times, if you've scraped a 2-0 lead with very few chances against a poor team, warning the team against complacency is required. React to what you think should have happened, not the scoreline.

Have no issue with teamtalks except that my players couldn't care less what I say. I get ZERO reaction regardless what I say or do. If I scream at them aggressively after we lose 0-5 to Fulham at Anfield, I get maybe 2 green and 1 red players. If I praise them after a similar result, I get 2 confused players. The rest, no reaction at all. Nothing, nada, zip. Doesn't even matter what starting rep I have, be it sunday footballer or the "world star" rep.

12: Finally, if you get stuck and frustrated, rather than posting in GD to complain, come to visit the tactics forum and explain your problem. As long as you are clear and detailed, then it is very unusual for us not to be able to help.

No. Just no. I have NEVER, EVER needed to go this much into details I couldn't care less about before in order to win games and get reliable, decent results with any team I choose. I don't care about these insanely deep, intricate layers of tactical preparation, that's not what I want in FM. I don't want to sit on a forum discussing my tactic for hours and hours before I can win games against lousy teams. Why should I? I didn't buy the game so I could sit around and discuss it, I bought it to play it. But I can't, because nothing I do seems to work. No matter which tactic I create, my team gets hammered by worthless teams that my youth team should be able to beat easily. My stars are playing like crap even tho they play their perfect roles in their perfect position. No matter what I do, how much pre-work I do before the season starts, my team fails.

I'm sorry mate, but all these things you tell me to look out for and investigate, that wasn't necessary a year ago in FM2012. I have never bothered with OIs, shouts, opposing team tactics or weather. I have ALWAYS managed to win the championship in the first season with Liverpool. In every single FM out there so far, except this one.

You tell us in General to go here and ask for advise. I tell you, WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO. The SECOND I, as a player of CM/FM for 21 years NEED to go to a tactical discussion forum to get help to win the championship with Liverpool, that's the very second this game is no longer fun to me. I don't want another chore, I have plenty of those. I want a fun escapist game where I'm not confronted with the crappy reality that my beloved Liverpool will not with a championship in any forseeable future. FM2013 has stolen this escapism from me.

TL;DR

Game sucks.

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And you wonder why you struggle...

If you created a logical tactic on FM08/09/10/11/12 then they'd still work now. The fact you are struggling (even though you say you follow the TF&F) suggest you never created one in the first place. It would still work now. All logical tactics will always work regardless of what version you play

Or if you are using a logical tactic then you are making the wrong calls inside a game.

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Pretty much as Cleon says. In the previous 21 years of CM/FM, it has always been possible to overpower AI tactics by exploiting ME holes / weaknesses. If you ALWAYS won the EPL first season with Liverpool, then you've probably ALWAYS taken advantage of some of these holes. The FM13 ME seems to be the first one that is truly exploit free.

For some people, this requires a massive shift away from the strategies that made them successful previously. You can no longer design or download a tactic, load it up, press continue and pile up money and a world class squad. You actually have to put some effort into managing matches. With a squad comparable to the top third of the division, you should be able to design a tactical base / starting shout strategy that wins you a good 50-60% of you matches without you getting any more involved than that. That will guarantee you a playoff spot. However, to actually win the league, you'll either have to have a totally dominant squad or take the time to think about the 40-50% of matches in which your base tactic/strategy isn't working.

Some of us have been doing this for years (me probably longer than anyone else). Once you've nailed the logic, you don't have to change your tactical approach for any ME build, ever. I've used the same basic system since FM07 (although I've become more sophisticated in adjusting playing style). In all that time, I have never had to change anything to accommodate an ME.

You suggest that playing this way is a chore and that you, as a 21 year CM/FM veteran, shouldn't have to play this way. To be blunt, you've never really 'played' FM. You've beaten its ME, not its AI. You've not really learned anything about the game's basics in all those years. You don't know how to react to the ebb and flow of a season because your tactic has always overpowered the ME to the extent it wins no matter which players you have. This is what you need to learn to do.

At the moment, you'll have no idea how to coax a decent performance out of low morale players, because you've never had to. You won't have a clue about adapting your strategy to cope with bad weather, different formations or tactical styles, or horrible pitches. You won't have an inkling about how to prepare a week long motivational & media strategy prior to the biggest match of the season, because your tactic always did the trick for you no matter what you said. All of the complex interaction in the game has been lost to you because of your tactical approach. You've never had to manage! Hence, you are now stuck without a paddle. The learning curve you face is huge and can't even be started without a fundamental shift in attitude. Your reaction to points 5-12 illustrate how far you are away from that shift.

Moving past the bluntness, for the large majority of people who have shifted their approach in FM13, the outcome is revelatory. They find themselves having more fun, feeling in more control and enjoying their successes more than ever, because they know they deserve them. There's nothing more satisfying than preparing motivationally and tactically for that big match and seeing everything come off exactly as planned. It doesn't take much effort either, just a minute or so's thought prior to kick off for tactics and a coherent motivation/media strategy prior to and post the match. For some matches, especially at first, things will go wrong as you'll make mistakes. Then you'll have to pay close attention to in-match tactics and probably play more slowly than you're used to. However, over time you'll become confident as to what you are doing and play through more and more matches without having to make a tactical change. Once you have, you'll play just as quickly as you ever did.

If you can let go of the hubris about 'knowing how to play FM' I can promise you that FM13 will be the most enjoyable version you've ever played. If not, then you'll lose a big part of your life. What have you got to lose by giving it a go?

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just looking for a little bit of help, im blackburn just got promoted but im struggling at the minute towards bottom of table. I set up like this, 4-2-3-1

Blackburn. Newly promoted. Just try to stay up. Player quality is more important than tactical sophistication, and you won't have that player quality. You need to win those six-pointer relegation battles and grind out a few backs to the wall draws when you can.

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Also do you have a specific set piece set up i want to start scoring more well just score the most in the league i have the best set piece taker in the league & i have a long throw specialist too.

Nothing fancy. Just a logical setup to take advantage of mixed deliveries.

Final question i have a player who is without doubt more creative and more skillful than anyone in the league i play 451 some games & others 442 but in my 451 i've been trying to put him onthe AML as AP/IF & tweaked his instrctuions max CF & Roam Dribble basically do what you want and run riot like messi but he played a 5.7 that game i brought him off after 50 mins. I then used him as a IF he played a 8 but i want him to be the centre point for the team do you have any suggestions how to do this? Even dropping him in as a AM in my 442 just cant get his personal instructions right.

Very much depends on how aggressive/cautious you are being in your strategy. An AM in a very attacking strategy gets caught ahead of play and can't influence much. If you want him to be a fulcrum, you either need to play a more cautious strategy, in which case he'll be fine as an AM/AP, or use him as a DLP if you want to play more aggressively.

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I do have a problem indeed. I can't win games, no matter what I do. Several different saves, several different tactics, several different setups = same results, I get humiliated.

It seems you don't really understand that you have a problem and that you need to change. In fact, several of your points seems to indicate that you never had to do a certain thing, so why should you have to now.

Anyways, just want to say that this years FM, although a little bit frustrating for me after the first patch, really helped me improve as a FM gamer. I had to actually learn the game, which has made it infinitely more rewarding than before.

So this year's FM is easily the best you have created so far.

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Pretty much as Cleon says. In the previous 21 years of CM/FM, it has always been possible to overpower AI tactics by exploiting ME holes / weaknesses. If you ALWAYS won the EPL first season with Liverpool, then you've probably ALWAYS taken advantage of some of these holes. The FM13 ME seems to be the first one that is truly exploit free.

For some people, this requires a massive shift away from the strategies that made them successful previously. You can no longer design or download a tactic, load it up, press continue and pile up money and a world class squad. You actually have to put some effort into managing matches. With a squad comparable to the top third of the division, you should be able to design a tactical base / starting shout strategy that wins you a good 50-60% of you matches without you getting any more involved than that. That will guarantee you a playoff spot. However, to actually win the league, you'll either have to have a totally dominant squad or take the time to think about the 40-50% of matches in which your base tactic/strategy isn't working.

Some of us have been doing this for years (me probably longer than anyone else). Once you've nailed the logic, you don't have to change your tactical approach for any ME build, ever. I've used the same basic system since FM07 (although I've become more sophisticated in adjusting playing style). In all that time, I have never had to change anything to accommodate an ME.

You suggest that playing this way is a chore and that you, as a 21 year CM/FM veteran, shouldn't have to play this way. To be blunt, you've never really 'played' FM. You've beaten its ME, not its AI. You've not really learned anything about the game's basics in all those years. You don't know how to react to the ebb and flow of a season because your tactic has always overpowered the ME to the extent it wins no matter which players you have. This is what you need to learn to do.

At the moment, you'll have no idea how to coax a decent performance out of low morale players, because you've never had to. You won't have a clue about adapting your strategy to cope with bad weather, different formations or tactical styles, or horrible pitches. You won't have an inkling about how to prepare a week long motivational & media strategy prior to the biggest match of the season, because your tactic always did the trick for you no matter what you said. All of the complex interaction in the game has been lost to you because of your tactical approach. You've never had to manage! Hence, you are now stuck without a paddle. The learning curve you face is huge and can't even be started without a fundamental shift in attitude. Your reaction to points 5-12 illustrate how far you are away from that shift.

Moving past the bluntness, for the large majority of people who have shifted their approach in FM13, the outcome is revelatory. They find themselves having more fun, feeling in more control and enjoying their successes more than ever, because they know they deserve them. There's nothing more satisfying than preparing motivationally and tactically for that big match and seeing everything come off exactly as planned. It doesn't take much effort either, just a minute or so's thought prior to kick off for tactics and a coherent motivation/media strategy prior to and post the match. For some matches, especially at first, things will go wrong as you'll make mistakes. Then you'll have to pay close attention to in-match tactics and probably play more slowly than you're used to. However, over time you'll become confident as to what you are doing and play through more and more matches without having to make a tactical change. Once you have, you'll play just as quickly as you ever did.

If you can let go of the hubris about 'knowing how to play FM' I can promise you that FM13 will be the most enjoyable version you've ever played. If not, then you'll lose a big part of your life. What have you got to lose by giving it a go?

The short version of what you're saying is that through all the tactics I have created, all the stuff I've done previously ever since CM91, I have, without knowing it, only won because of flaws in the game engine. Nothing of what I have done has been worth a damn on it's own, I have only ever won because I have been lucky or I've abused the system.

I cannot accept that. I simply can't accept that in every single game so far, I've been so randomly lucky that my tactics, which basically haven't changed all that much between games since FM05, have ALWAYS managed to find some magical loophole in the game engine that I didn't even know existed.

Look, it's simple, I play a 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-2-3-1 system (whatever you want to call it), and I have played this for many years without problems. And you're telling me now that all of it is worthless as I need to pay attention to many more details that I never needed to. No, I disagree.

My basic philosophy has ALWAYS been to rest in the way *I* play and not adjust too much based on how *they* play. I don't want to change tactics for each game, as that would go against my basic principles of trusting my own style of play to do the job.

My basic ideas are pass'n'move, short passes, low tempo, playing through the opposition defense, keeping possession. Basically I've been playing tiki-taka since, well, before it was called FM at least. My tactic also adheres to the power of five framework

Now, my typical tactic is focused on control/fluid in a standard 4-2-3-1 - support full backs, defensive central defenders, 1 defensive central midfielder (BWM), 1 support (DLP), 2 inside forwards, 1 central attacking midfielder (APM or AM depending on the player) and a poacher/complete forward depending on ability up front. This is the basic tactic I've been using for many years, obviously adjusted for any changes in the way tactics are displayed and used in the game. But yeah, that's my basic old trusted tactic that I've used for years, a tactic the Danish national team has played since 2002 and a tactic my own local team is playing today. I love this tactic for the player types it contains, I trust it, and as I see several real life teams play it EXACTLY like that, I feel it's a logical tactic that makes sense. Also, I feel it fits perfectly into the current Liverpool squad as, well, they basically play the same way.

However, using this tactic with Liverpool ended with me being relegation candidates close to the end of November. I still have the possession, I still have all the chances, my shots mostly come from within the penalty box, so most of the things are as they should be and always have been. However, unlike previous years, the tactic is extremely shaky defensively, which I simply don't understand as the basic premise hasn't changed - it's still power of five, it's still five primarily defensive players and the central axis is even players who've played together for several years (Reina-Skrtel-Agger-Lucas). Yet, I find myself losing 1-4, 2-5, 2-3, 1-3 etc. Clean sheets are extremely rare, so even though I get the goals I would usually need to win, I still find myself losing horribly.

So, I figured I'd try to strengthen the defensive side of things, and I adapted a 4-5-1 with a proper defensive midfielder instead of an attacking midfielder, sacrificing creative power for more stability in defense, I thought. I even went down to balanced/counter, adapting Cleon's Spurs tactic to my Liverpool players - but little did it help. New save btw, but same story, I have the ball, I have the shots, but the opposing team scores on whatever chances they have while most of my shots don't even hit goal.

Also, I'm used to my teamtalks not really working until I prove myself to the players. A "feature" I find really annoying, to be honest, but I've always dealt with it and managed to get the results and the subsequent respect relatively fast. However, now I find myself in a situation where I can't get out of the circle - the team isn't performing and since I just started and I play as myself, not some guy with a celebrity footballer past, I'm having serious problems turning it around since nobody is listening regardless of whether I say the right things or not.

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I have ALWAYS managed to win the championship in the first season with Liverpool. In every single FM out there so far, except this one.

You claim you've always won the Premier League first season with Liverpool yet a quick look over your post history and past posts shows that isn't the case, in fact I'll quote you just so you know I'm not making it up;

Alright, first season finished.

Failed in the cups, but did end 2nd in the Prem, so very close to Man City who won and 1 point ahead of Man Utd. I had a major injury crisis (Suarez, Carroll, Costa, Gerrard all out for 2 months) in november/december, which cost me the title as due to that I lost points to Swansea, Arsenal, Man City, QPR and Wigan. Thus, I've done some shopping..

Summer 2012:

In:

Edin Dzeko, €11.75M

Adam Johnson, €6.25M

Radja Nainggolan, €6.75M

Gaston Ramirez, €7.25M

Romário, €4M

and a couple of newgens

Out:

Charlie Adam, €4M

Danny Wilson, €3M

Craig Bellamy, €500k

Jay Spearing, €4.8M

John Flanagan, €1M

Dani Pacheco, €700k

Aquilani, loan

Jole Cole, loan

Stewart Downing, loan, €2.5M fee, 8.25M option to buy

Still trying to get rid of Carroll, but so far no success.. I'm still only in July, so more things can deffo happen, but so far, my squad is pretty settled:

GK: Reina / Areola

DR: Johnson / Vrsaljko / Romario

DL: Enrique / Robinson

DC: Agger / Coates / Carragher / Kelly / Wisdom / Ilori (Both Wisdom and Ilori look very promising this time around)

MC (BWM): Lucas / Radja / Coady

MC (DLP): Gerrard / Hendo / Cotton (newgen) / Joao Carlos

AMR: Suarez / Douglas Costa / Sterling

AMC: Eriksen / Shelvey (Altho Costa, Suarez and Gerrard can also play here)

AML: Adam Johnson / Gaston Fernandez / Suso

SC: Dzeko / Kuyt / Carroll / Morgan

I wanted Hazard for the left wing, but he joined Man Utd for €40M, so I got myself Johnson and Gaston instead. I might get myself a new defender to replace Agger, but I have to say, as a Dane, it would be hard to kick out Danny.. Besides, I don't see any obvious choices that would provide remarkably improved performance right away.

Admittedly you did post 1 week later and say you'd restarted and did the double in the first season. But still, it seems you don't win the league first season with Liverpool like you claim.

What is also evident in your past posts is you spend a hell of a lot of money on new players. All good players too might I add, so have you ever thought on FM13 you don't have the same kind of resources as you've been used to on FM11/12 etc so can't bring in enough great players?

On your save in the first season you signed Willian, Vrsaljko, Leandro Damiao, Areola, Ilori, Golasa, Ferreyra, Emil Larsen and Sergio. Now all those improved your orignal squad ten fold and would have made a massive difference to your game. Now you don't have the same luxury on FM13.

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You claim you've always won the Premier League first season with Liverpool yet a quick look over your post history and past posts shows that isn't the case, in fact I'll quote you just so you know I'm not making it up;

Admittedly you did post 1 week later and say you'd restarted and did the double in the first season. But still, it seems you don't win the league every season first attempt with Liverpool like you claim.

What is also evident in your past posts is you spend a hell of a lot of money on new players. All good players too might I add, so have you ever thought on FM13 you don't have the same kind of resources as you've been used to on FM11/12 etc so can't bring in enough great players?

On your save in the first season you signed Willian, Vrsaljko, Leandro Damiao, Areola, Ilori, Golasa, Ferreyra, Emil Larsen and Sergio. Now all those improved your orignal squad ten fold and would have made a massive difference to your game. Now you don't have the same luxury on FM13.

Well, second/first - the team was working, the tactics were working. And yes, I did relaunch the save and won the double in my second try. In FM2013, I am now on my fifth Liverpool save, and I'm not even close to anything remotely successful.

Anyhow, I'll post a completely new thread detailing the tactics, training and squad to cover everything in one post instead of, as now, having a few comments in seperate threads that really shouldn't be for my individual issue.

Stand by for 30-60 minutes or so while it is being written :D

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Nothing fancy. Just a logical setup to take advantage of mixed deliveries.
Thanks, not after the near post abuse of previous years i just want to be near the top of goals from set pieces take advantage of them like Stoke found an intresting FM12 thread and trying to replicate at the moment had 5 games and two goals from set pieces so im happy so far, just have to monitor that at the end of the season.
Very much depends on how aggressive/cautious you are being in your strategy. An AM in a very attacking strategy gets caught ahead of play and can't influence much. If you want him to be a fulcrum, you either need to play a more cautious strategy, in which case he'll be fine as an AM/AP, or use him as a DLP if you want to play more aggressively.
Well at home i'm normally 4-4-2 standard/contain and balanced & away i play a 4-5-1 which is standard & balanced. I'll try him as a DLP at home & AP away.I do have another problem the best team in the league Guangzhou play a 451 (like chelseas' IRL) they have Lucas Barrios upfront who is a beast i managed to sneak a draw against them alst year but no matter how i set up they always seem to dominate me (as expected they do have a better side). I try set up defensive/counter & rigid but always struggle against them as they are superior. Any Ideas or tips for this? I might try setting up flat 4-1-4-1 but it leaves my lone striker quite isolated.Thanks for the replies & once again good thread really feeling the enjoyment this FM now im dabbling with tactics again. In my 4th season in China which is random and new.

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it might just be that this season Liverpool are not as good as they have been in previous seasons. (see their 1-3 defeat at home to Aston Villa).

I must be similar age and experience as you and I was getting very annoyed with this game. I thought I did not have time to watch matches do the analysis etc but found that reading, making notes and inperpreting it into your game has worked. It is harder work but you feel that the time you spend playing FM is "quality time" rather than hitting continue and winning. It is up to you how you want to play but the games has eveolved and maybe your style of playing needs to evolve with it. Obviously it is your choice but at elast try. Cleon, wwfan and others are more than helpful if you are reasoned, prepared to listen. At age 34 I am enjoying the game more now than any of the recent games....

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Im doing well with At Madrid now. After some shocking runs and results I seem to have got the hang of things and can go on long consistent runs and react to things in game. Still alot to learn though but im enjoying it.

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WWfan I have to say that I dont get the attacking strategy in defence - sounds a bit lop-sided (and I am a fan of assymetric but that goes a bit far). I presume you mean a full back but I find with a back four that 2 x DC's at Def Duty and 2 full backs as support or auto or maybe one of each is much more stable.

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Im doing well with At Madrid now. After some shocking runs and results I seem to have got the hang of things and can go on long consistent runs and react to things in game. Still alot to learn though but im enjoying it.

Does this mean you are retracting this statement?

Stop using Football logic to build tactics and just randomly tweak things until until you find what the ME likes. Repeat after every patch.

:p

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WWfan I have to say that I dont get the attacking strategy in defence - sounds a bit lop-sided (and I am a fan of assymetric but that goes a bit far). I presume you mean a full back but I find with a back four that 2 x DC's at Def Duty and 2 full backs as support or auto or maybe one of each is much more stable.

I think it is vital until the Attacking and Overload strategies, in which attacking FBs can leave the defence exposed. To attack with the more risk averse mentalities, you need to get at least one FB forward or they simply don't open enough angles. There are some issues with the terminologies that make it seem counter-intuitive at first glance, but if you think about it and watch a few games with it set up in the above manner, you'll see what I mean.

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Does this mean you are retracting this statement?

:p

I was only wumming there. I hadnt even made a tactic at that stage I was using someone elses.

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Pretty much as Cleon says. In the previous 21 years of CM/FM, it has always been possible to overpower AI tactics by exploiting ME holes / weaknesses. If you ALWAYS won the EPL first season with Liverpool, then you've probably ALWAYS taken advantage of some of these holes. The FM13 ME seems to be the first one that is truly exploit free.

For some people, this requires a massive shift away from the strategies that made them successful previously. You can no longer design or download a tactic, load it up, press continue and pile up money and a world class squad. You actually have to put some effort into managing matches. With a squad comparable to the top third of the division, you should be able to design a tactical base / starting shout strategy that wins you a good 50-60% of you matches without you getting any more involved than that. That will guarantee you a playoff spot. However, to actually win the league, you'll either have to have a totally dominant squad or take the time to think about the 40-50% of matches in which your base tactic/strategy isn't working.

Some of us have been doing this for years (me probably longer than anyone else). Once you've nailed the logic, you don't have to change your tactical approach for any ME build, ever. I've used the same basic system since FM07 (although I've become more sophisticated in adjusting playing style). In all that time, I have never had to change anything to accommodate an ME.

You suggest that playing this way is a chore and that you, as a 21 year CM/FM veteran, shouldn't have to play this way. To be blunt, you've never really 'played' FM. You've beaten its ME, not its AI. You've not really learned anything about the game's basics in all those years. You don't know how to react to the ebb and flow of a season because your tactic has always overpowered the ME to the extent it wins no matter which players you have. This is what you need to learn to do.

At the moment, you'll have no idea how to coax a decent performance out of low morale players, because you've never had to. You won't have a clue about adapting your strategy to cope with bad weather, different formations or tactical styles, or horrible pitches. You won't have an inkling about how to prepare a week long motivational & media strategy prior to the biggest match of the season, because your tactic always did the trick for you no matter what you said. All of the complex interaction in the game has been lost to you because of your tactical approach. You've never had to manage! Hence, you are now stuck without a paddle. The learning curve you face is huge and can't even be started without a fundamental shift in attitude. Your reaction to points 5-12 illustrate how far you are away from that shift.

Moving past the bluntness, for the large majority of people who have shifted their approach in FM13, the outcome is revelatory. They find themselves having more fun, feeling in more control and enjoying their successes more than ever, because they know they deserve them. There's nothing more satisfying than preparing motivationally and tactically for that big match and seeing everything come off exactly as planned. It doesn't take much effort either, just a minute or so's thought prior to kick off for tactics and a coherent motivation/media strategy prior to and post the match. For some matches, especially at first, things will go wrong as you'll make mistakes. Then you'll have to pay close attention to in-match tactics and probably play more slowly than you're used to. However, over time you'll become confident as to what you are doing and play through more and more matches without having to make a tactical change. Once you have, you'll play just as quickly as you ever did.

If you can let go of the hubris about 'knowing how to play FM' I can promise you that FM13 will be the most enjoyable version you've ever played. If not, then you'll lose a big part of your life. What have you got to lose by giving it a go?

WWfan, I generally trust and appreciate all your input into the forums but I deplore this post. I cannot judge how you view another person's way of playing the game BUT your sentiments make me (and others, I suspect) feel like we have wasted all our FM gameplaying time up to now. Every year SI, SEGA and a lot of the forum say FM is a "simulator" (I have always said it is just a game, allbeit an excellent game) but apparantly all along it has been a "football themed software expoit puzzle"! I dont remember the Offical line saying that FM is just that unless you plan to study, disect & reassemble all your football gaming knowledge. Indeed if "expolits" proliferated so much in the past it is a wonder that anyone has found satisfaction in the game (Yourself, Millie, Cleon & Rashidi apart).

As I say your input has always been universally valued and appreciated and your "12 steps" guide has encouraged me to have one last go on FM`13 (my "Angelholm Project thread will hopefully follow soon), so I am trying not to be critical and you may be 100% right however if you are you just wrote off FM05-FM12 inclusive as not fit for purpose in respect to being "football management simulators).

I regret I feel I had to make this post.

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First of all, this thread is amazing. I gathered all sorts of new information and I hope it will help me facilitate my new FM challenge (playing differently than I was). I have a few questions that will be marked with numbers.

I want to play with Wolves in the Championship. I want to use a counter-attacking (proactive, direct, vertical) style with mainly short passing (I would say ground passing because I want my players to pass to a free player higher up the pitch but not with a high pass to head but a long ground pass) and also rarely long (high) through balls (not to feet or head; ex. side backs onto wingers) on a high tempo and with a lot of pressing. I had always success and still have in FM with this kind of a style and I also like this approach better in real life instead of a balanced approach or the tiki-taka approach.

Playing with a lot of pressing, high defensive line and fast counter-attacking should be possible with Wolves, the first team players have all good acceleration, pace, stamina and work rate for a Championship squad. I also like to build from back (GK with only short passes and defender collect distribution). Two attributes the squad lacks (their average less than other teams' average) are Passing and First Touch.

1) I think the short passing will comply with the lack of passing ability but will the First Touch make my high tempo, direct football less viable?

I'm going with this setup:

Style and Strategy both Balanced.

Short Passing and default Creative Freedom.

Press More and More Aggresive Tackling.

Man Marking, Drill Crosses and More Roaming.

Counter-Attacking ticked.

I also have all players on Long Shots Rarely.

----DLF(s)------P(a)----

W(s)---------------W(a)

---BWM(D)----AP(s)----

WB(a)-DC(d)-DC(d)-FB(s)

-----------GK----------

2) Would you change something in my initial setup to get the football I want to play?

3) I haven't played so far with Shouts but I want to start using them. Which shouts would you suggest using for the football I want to play? Play Out of Defence, Pass Into Space, Play Wider, Get Ball Forward, Hassle Opponents or something different?

This is the team I plan to field:

----Doyle----Ebanks-Blake

Hunt---------------Peszko

----Doumbia----Henry----

Ward-Berra-Johnson-Foley

--------Hennessey-------

4) Is the team good enough to play that kind of a football?

5) Are the players correctly put in the roles? (Doyle as DLF(s)?)

6) What PPM would you suggest and on which players to complement this approach? (Ex. wingers and side backs with Switch Possession to the other side of the pitch, One-Twos on Wingers and the Poacher, AP with dictate tempo and come deep to get the ball, CBs and FB with tight marking etc.?)

7) Most important question: Will I have success in the Championship with this style? (fitness levels, a lot of matches, style of opponents etc.)

Any suggestions and opinions are welcome, thanks. I would be extremely happy if the ones who want to help me out will post more elaborate posts, thanks again!

KUTGW wwfan!

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WWfan, I generally trust and appreciate all your input into the forums but I deplore this post. I cannot judge how you view another person's way of playing the game BUT your sentiments make me (and others, I suspect) feel like we have wasted all our FM gameplaying time up to now. Every year SI, SEGA and a lot of the forum say FM is a "simulator" (I have always said it is just a game, allbeit an excellent game) but apparantly all along it has been a "football themed software expoit puzzle"! I dont remember the Offical line saying that FM is just that unless you plan to study, disect & reassemble all your football gaming knowledge. Indeed if "expolits" proliferated so much in the past it is a wonder that anyone has found satisfaction in the game (Yourself, Millie, Cleon & Rashidi apart).

As I say your input has always been universally valued and appreciated and your "12 steps" guide has encouraged me to have one last go on FM`13 (my "Angelholm Project thread will hopefully follow soon), so I am trying not to be critical and you may be 100% right however if you are you just wrote off FM05-FM12 inclusive as not fit for purpose in respect to being "football management simulators).

I regret I feel I had to make this post.

I think you are misinterpreting my motivations. As much as I'd like to sugar coat things, sometimes you have to be blunt and aggressive to shake somebody out of their comfort zone. My only motivation is that ThunderZtormDK starts to enjoy FM again. He won't unless he shakes himself out of his blue funk and starts thinking a different way. I don't have the time to slowly ease him through the process. I have to make him question the fundamentals he's played by for years, for until he does, he'll not ever make the required steps in the right direction.

The level by which people were exploiting the lack of collision detection in FM12 was not clear to any of us until we starting seeing the tactics they were using for FM13. Everybody that succeeded in FM12 but failed in FM13 was using a system that channelled play towards a lone central point, usually a lone FCC poacher. We'd never seen these problematic tactics posted before, because they hadn't been problematic, but successful. Sorting out this style of play is fundamental towards helping people enjoy FM13.

Collision detection is a huge change. It's not made a jot of difference to me or my tactical approach. However, for a vast swathe of users, its made their preferred tactical approach toothless. The result is the forum angst of the last six weeks. OUr job is to hep people get past that, using any method possible. That includes being blunt / nasty at times (if the situation calls for it). Ultimately, if the post you object to helps one more person enjoy FM again, it's done its job. I don't care who it offends if that is the outcome.

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I think you are misinterpreting my motivations. As much as I'd like to sugar coat things, sometimes you have to be blunt and aggressive to shake somebody out of their comfort zone. My only motivation is that ThunderZtormDK starts to enjoy FM again. He won't unless he shakes himself out of his blue funk and starts thinking a different way. I don't have the time to slowly ease him through the process. I have to make him question the fundamentals he's played by for years, for until he does, he'll not ever make the required steps in the right direction.

The level by which people were exploiting the lack of collision detection in FM12 was not clear to any of us until we starting seeing the tactics they were using for FM13. Everybody that succeeded in FM12 but failed in FM13 was using a system that channelled play towards a lone central point, usually a lone FCC poacher. We'd never seen these problematic tactics posted before, because they hadn't been problematic, but successful. Sorting out this style of play is fundamental towards helping people enjoy FM13.

Collision detection is a huge change. It's not made a jot of difference to me or my tactical approach. However, for a vast swathe of users, its made their preferred tactical approach toothless. The result is the forum angst of the last six weeks. OUr job is to hep people get past that, using any method possible. That includes being blunt / nasty at times (if the situation calls for it). Ultimately, if the post you object to helps one more person enjoy FM again, it's done its job. I don't care who it offends if that is the outcome.

With your example of exploiting I now see where you were coming from. Maybe there needs to be a fully anotated comparison by someone-who-knows showing the difference between the expoit working in FM12 and why it doesnt work in FM13, I would have thought that may be a big help - many probably never realised this importance. For me "exploit" meant using a 432 set up with a floating AMR/L, perhaps I am more of a tactical thinker than I thought. What I dont understand is how you exploit the lack of collision detectance in the first place. I at best can get my players roughly where I want them positioned, trying to make 2 players "collide" would be beyond my capabilitys! Looking forward to my Angelholms project though, utilising your "12 steps!" (even the full back on attack duty ;-) ), though it does feel a all little last chance saloon for me but i'll give it my best shot and try to feed back in a sensible way.

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With your example of exploiting I now see where you were coming from. Maybe there needs to be a fully anotated comparison by someone-who-knows showing the difference between the expoit working in FM12 and why it doesnt work in FM13, I would have thought that may be a big help - many probably never realised this importance. For me "exploit" meant using a 432 set up with a floating AMR/L, perhaps I am more of a tactical thinker than I thought. What I dont understand is how you exploit the lack of collision detectance in the first place. I at best can get my players roughly where I want them positioned, trying to make 2 players "collide" would be beyond my capabilitys! Looking forward to my Angelholms project though, utilising your "12 steps!" (even the full back on attack duty ;-) ), though it does feel a all little last chance saloon for me but i'll give it my best shot and try to feed back in a sensible way.

You should read first post of this thread if you don't know what collision detection is...

Up until FM12, even these solidly logical tactics could be beaten by user tactics that took advantage of an ME flaw. The core one was the lack of collision detection, which meant that users could play a static target point lone FC formation (i.e. 4-2-3-1 with a poacher/target man) and channel balls through to him. Because he could run straight through defenders literally as if they weren't there, he could be guaranteed a certain number of chances every match in such a system. Get a good player in this position, a couple of good passers and keep your defence back, and Bob's your uncle.

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@OP : Reading through this thread i understand you attribute most users' failure with FM13 tactics to them taking advantage , knowingly or not , of this 'collision detection' ME flaw .

If this is correct , i have a couple of points i hope you can address :

1. Can you elaborate more on this specific ME flaw ? Is it the through balls to the lone striker running into space or him running with the ball through defenders that did the trick up until now ? As a previous poster mentioned ,a comparative example of fm12-fm13 on this would be very helpful .

2. Could it be possible for a player using unaltered TC tactics to take advantage of this ? Was it so simple , that is : a lone Fw often quick striker , 3-4 through balls often passers and you were set ? Not any other setting to facilitate this ? (tempo-time wasting for example) .How did many of the disappointed / struggling fm13 players manage to exploit a flaw they didn't know to exist ? By playing one up top and that is all ?

3. Is the statement that if one uses logical tactics should see no difference in this version success-wise true ? Has anything changed in the way the main components of fm-play (mentality , tempo , time wasting , width , passing length , creative freedom) interact ? If not , then , surely , this lone striker issue should be of relatively minor gameplay importance . Also , if nothing important has changed dramatically , i cannot explain many recent posts/threads about how this year's fm ME is more enjoyable : shouldn't it be the same as last year ?Or maybe even less because of the way the ball rolls on this new friction-less pitch + some funny AI decision making bugs

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You should read first post of this thread if you don't know what collision detection is...

Oh yeah, at first I though your reply was condescending but I now realise that I read right through this detail in my haste to read the 12 points! :-(

Having said that, it seems to me that the fuss about "collision detection exploits" centres on the lone SC formation. Im sure many have done well and were alluded to in this thread as being "software exploiters" for the same reason despite using 2 x SC formations. Anyway, it is a circular debate as some exploits are actually accidentally exposed (eg. in CM0102 I "discovered" the 4231 defensive formation, which is a variation on the now classic 4132 which is now known to be expoitative of that particular ME. I created for "footballing reasons - not as "cheat" the end result tough being the same thing.

On the theme of "cheating" if it is possible (and is it?) it would be great if SI introduced a "cheat mode" wherein you have visibility pre/in match of all the opponent manager's settings (OP's, Team instructions, Roles, Duties, player instructions - the whole enschelada). Not so we can play by numbers and win every match but so we can more easilly work out for ourselves the why & wherefore of how to play the game - it would save a lot of heartache & work and should be an optional selected mode/function.

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@OP : Reading through this thread i understand you attribute most users' failure with FM13 tactics to them taking advantage , knowingly or not , of this 'collision detection' ME flaw .

If this is correct , i have a couple of points i hope you can address :

1. Can you elaborate more on this specific ME flaw ? Is it the through balls to the lone striker running into space or him running with the ball through defenders that did the trick up until now ? As a previous poster mentioned ,a comparative example of fm12-fm13 on this would be very helpful .

2. Could it be possible for a player using unaltered TC tactics to take advantage of this ? Was it so simple , that is : a lone Fw often quick striker , 3-4 through balls often passers and you were set ? Not any other setting to facilitate this ? (tempo-time wasting for example) .How did many of the disappointed / struggling fm13 players manage to exploit a flaw they didn't know to exist ? By playing one up top and that is all ?

3. Is the statement that if one uses logical tactics should see no difference in this version success-wise true ? Has anything changed in the way the main components of fm-play (mentality , tempo , time wasting , width , passing length , creative freedom) interact ? If not , then , surely , this lone striker issue should be of relatively minor gameplay importance . Also , if nothing important has changed dramatically , i cannot explain many recent posts/threads about how this year's fm ME is more enjoyable : shouldn't it be the same as last year ?Or maybe even less because of the way the ball rolls on this new friction-less pitch + some funny AI decision making bugs

Fair comments I think. Moreover, in FM©13 I concede the vast majority of goals to hot-knife-though-butter throughballs from Iniesta to Messi, even at Blue Square level. This sounds like a variation on the "no collision detection exploit" theme - but is new and exclusive to the AI manager (all of them) and exclusive to FM13, which contradicts the initial assertions about this, at least in part - if not completely.

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Hey,

I just started the game again to test the updates and...

1.I shoot better than all of my players...they just pass the ball to the keeper.I have a striker with 17 finishing, 15 composure and he misses all the time...just passes the ball to the opposite keeper or misses the net.

2.I have like 60% possesion and I lose with 1-0,2-0...and a lot of goals from corners...

3.I just can't explain why we don't score.

4.Players keep passing the ball back instead of trying create a goal scoring opportunity.It's 1-0 in 80' and they pass the ball to the keeper :|

5.Most of times if I don't use the "Extended" option of showing the match, I only see the beggining and the end...so it means that there are no "Key" opportunities...

6.Wingers keep cutting inside and shoot instead of looking for a pass or smth...long shots...long shots everywhere.

7.Still can't score goals.

8.Silly mistakes like passing the ball to the opposition and stuff...

I play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3(3 midfielders, 2 wingers, 1 striker), standard, fluid, press more, more direct, more disciplined, float crosses, zonal marking.Some advices?

PS:I play Rangers in the 3rd season, second divison.I had no problems(won foruth&third league+3cups) 'till the update.

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you just wrote off FM05-FM12 inclusive as not fit for purpose in respect to being "football management simulators).

If it's any consolation, the same small coterie of 'wise men' wrote off FM05-FM09 when 10 came out, FM05-10 when 11 came out, and FM05-11 when 12 came out, pointing to insidious 'exploits' that had been once and for all stamped out in those versions that now required everyone to learn how to play the game 'properly', and consistently adopting the same patronizing, holier-than-thou tone. It grates, as you're discovering, and it doesn't help get their case across. Worst of all, it makes FM sound like a game only 1 in every 1,000 people is capable of enjoying; the other 999 are scurrilous cheaters who are presumably faking satisfaction and success. But they'll soon be found out and exposed for the impious pretenders they really are! In the next version. When the holy monks at SI ensure the 'exploits' are stamped out once and for all! Again. Personally I can't wait to see what they come up next year to explain why so many people succeeded at FM13...

(I say this as someone who enjoys playing the game 'properly' as decreed by this same ponderous clique, and hasn't struggled with the game since the CM era. I don't even necessarily disagree with anything they're saying, though they do their best to bloviate and obfuscate rather than giving consistent advice. It's a tonal thing. They're just downright pompous. About a football simulation videogame, no less.)

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wwfan,

Have you noticed any change of PPM importance after new patch? Previously PPM that affects forward runs (drops deep or gets forward) had clear impact to player position on positional heathmap (especially in central midfield)? For example: CM/s with drops deep PPM played in line with CM/d (mixed runs vs rare runs). After last patch it looks different or I'm blind - runs WITH ball affect positioning more than other PPMs and runs WITHOUT ball affect less than before patch. Inside forward with "cuts inside" PPM seems to cut inside earlier than inside forward without this PPM, player with "shots from distance" PPM shots from distance more than before patch even with "work ball into box" shout. Am I paranoid or patch changed those things?

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I currently employ 1 striker Suarez in a 4-2-3-1 formation, i have the 2nd best away record in the league behind none other than Man U, To be fair i wouldn't say my tactic is that offensive, it's definitely possession based in most cases having over 60%. i also have the best defensive record in the league..

What i have noticed recently, the goals have dried up for Suarez as have CCC, i am just wondering when playing 1 striker upfront what is the best way to support him other than say using a 4-4-2?

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I currently employ 1 striker Suarez in a 4-2-3-1 formation' date=' i have the 2nd best away record in the league behind none other than Man U, To be fair i wouldn't say my tactic is that offensive, it's definitely possession based in most cases having over 60%. i also have the best defensive record in the league..

What i have noticed recently, the goals have dried up for Suarez as have CCC, i am just wondering when playing 1 striker upfront what is the best way to support him other than say using a 4-4-2?[/quote']

Limit long shots and runs with ball around him.

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Top thread this:thup:

Lots of questions have been asked about point 4, but I have one about the bolded bit:

4: Focus on roles and duties in the TC. Make sure you have one Attack duty in defence, one Attack and one Defend in midfield, and one Support in attack (especially if you have a lone FC). Make sure you have at least one no-nonsense, hard-working midfielder role. If you want to use a PM, will he be in the best position to hurt players, or will your approach see him isolated (see point eleven).

Is a CM(D) good enough or do you need a BWM type player?

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wwfan - Without wishing to drag this fantastic threat into a debate about the ME, how much do you feel the current state of the ME impacts upon the game tactically? I've been patient but am personally coming to the conclusion that there's too many faults to play it properly and am now going to hold off to a later patch.

Also, what your views of FMC? For me, the lack of match analysis detracts from what is an otherwise excellent feature.

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If it's any consolation, the same small coterie of 'wise men' wrote off FM05-FM09 when 10 came out, FM05-10 when 11 came out, and FM05-11 when 12 came out, pointing to insidious 'exploits' that had been once and for all stamped out in those versions that now required everyone to learn how to play the game 'properly', and consistently adopting the same patronizing, holier-than-thou tone. It grates, as you're discovering, and it doesn't help get their case across. Worst of all, it makes FM sound like a game only 1 in every 1,000 people is capable of enjoying; the other 999 are scurrilous cheaters who are presumably faking satisfaction and success. But they'll soon be found out and exposed for the impious pretenders they really are! In the next version. When the holy monks at SI ensure the 'exploits' are stamped out once and for all! Again. Personally I can't wait to see what they come up next year to explain why so many people succeeded at FM13...

(I say this as someone who enjoys playing the game 'properly' as decreed by this same ponderous clique, and hasn't struggled with the game since the CM era. I don't even necessarily disagree with anything they're saying, though they do their best to bloviate and obfuscate rather than giving consistent advice. It's a tonal thing. They're just downright pompous. About a football simulation videogame, no less.)

Extremely unfair. All anybody in this group of 'wise men' ever tries to do is explain a basic methodology that will allow users to seamlessly move between MEs without ever having to change their tactical approach (surely better than all the frustrated head banging every time a tactic collapses every time a new build is released). We don't talk about how to exploit the ME as that only helps the user with one build. Fish and fishing come to mind.

The extent to which users were channelling to lone FCs in FM12 wasn't clear until we saw user after user posting the same type of tactic. Once they did, we could work out why it succeeded in FM12 and wasn't in FM13 and advise accordingly. What else do you expect us to do? Lie to spare feelings? Not to give advice? Not to explain the advice?

The whole notion about anybody accusing others of "cheating" is ludicrous. I don't think I've ever accused anyone of cheating at FM in my life. If people want to spend their time designing, waiting for or downloading super-tactics, they are more than welcome to do so. We just feel the game is more enjoyable when employing other methods and wish to share them. This whole notion that we think we are a superior coterie is in your own head.

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wwfan,

Have you noticed any change of PPM importance after new patch? Previously PPM that affects forward runs (drops deep or gets forward) had clear impact to player position on positional heathmap (especially in central midfield)? For example: CM/s with drops deep PPM played in line with CM/d (mixed runs vs rare runs). After last patch it looks different or I'm blind - runs WITH ball affect positioning more than other PPMs and runs WITHOUT ball affect less than before patch. Inside forward with "cuts inside" PPM seems to cut inside earlier than inside forward without this PPM, player with "shots from distance" PPM shots from distance more than before patch even with "work ball into box" shout. Am I paranoid or patch changed those things?

Final third movement is far too static around the ball carrier. That might explain what you are seeing.

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Top thread this:thup:

Lots of questions have been asked about point 4, but I have one about the bolded bit:

Is a CM(D) good enough or do you need a BWM type player?

CM (D) is fine.

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