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wwfan

How to Play FM13: A Twelve Step Guide

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A Little Context

I know people tend to think I'm blindly defending the game, but my whole relationship with SI and FM started because I was feeling exactly the same way many of you are now about the FM06 ME. My first ever thread was entitled (something like) 'FM06: Deeply Flawed ME?'. In those days, I had no real understanding of football tactics. Like most of you, I'd played a bit and watched a bit, but hadn't ever really taken any time into understanding the fundamentals of football tactics. Simply a lurker, I'd followed forum dogma about what beat the ME. This had stopped working between FM05 and FM06. I didn't know what to do. Whatever I tried, the football looked horrible. I did OK at first, and then my team collapsed. I finished dead last in the BSP, something I've never done before or since.

Although I was frustrated to hell, I couldn't believe that SI would release an ME that didn't allow basic football formations to succeed. Consequently, I experimented with lots of different settings until I found something that worked on a consistent basis. I downloaded and tested all the so-called super tactics. All failed, either losing badly or producing horrible football. I then tried working out my own system. I must have played Maidenhead v Cambridge City 50+ times. Eventually, I worked out the logic that the ME was applying and began to win the match every time I played it. I then played through the whole season and did very well, winning and being happy with how I won. I then posted the findings and results on the forum and TT&F was born.

FM07 required a slight mindset change as mentality had become more sensitive. You could no longer play a system that was very stable in attack and defence at the same time (without exploiting the ME anyway). The result was designing a tighter mentality system, which has worked ever since. From that point on, I've never had to change my underlying logic (coherent mentality system + forward runs/run from deep pattern = solid tactical structure). From FM07 - FM13, this has run true. Since FM10 and the introduction of the TC, the AI teams have also used the same logic (albeit without the creative alternatives a user manager can try out).

Up until FM12, even these solidly logical tactics could be beaten by user tactics that took advantage of an ME flaw. The core one was the lack of collision detection, which meant that users could play a static target point lone FC formation (i.e. 4-2-3-1 with a poacher/target man) and channel balls through to him. Because he could run straight through defenders literally as if they weren't there, he could be guaranteed a certain number of chances every match in such a system. Get a good player in this position, a couple of good passers and keep your defence back, and Bob's your uncle.

Was this way of playing unbeatable? It tended to struggle when AI teams sat deep, because the lone forward then had to beat or was chased by lots of defenders, making his shots very difficult. Lots of users would experience the multiple shots, no goals, AI scores with its first shot scenario. This happened because, as FM13 reveals, players would get anxious, upset, angry or frustrated when chances weren't being put away, resulting in the greater likelihood of mistakes. The lower ranked AI team, happy at holding off a higher ranked side, would grow in confidence as well, making it more and more likely they'd score. However, users employing this kind of system still tended to do well against better teams, as their lone FC would get more space in which to operate.

However, these tactics should not work in reality. Although the AI couldn't counter them, we have actually proved that they wouldn't work against a decent human user. Just before the demise of FML, I guided a number of frustrated human users through the tactical logic required to stop these one dimensional tactics working (stop the supply, open spaces, counter into or attack them). Every one of these users succeeded. We now come to FM13.

The collision detection in FM13 means that the static lone forward being supplied by one-dimensional attacks won't succeed. He can no longer run through the defence. He has to go round DCs, who easily block him off and kill his space. 90% of the tactics we've seen posted in the tactics forum have been this type of tactic (with the other 10% being illogical atrocities). So, how to fix it? Please read on:

The Twelve Step Guide

1: Be prepared to admit you have a problem and need to change your approach. Until you do, nobody can help you.

2: Unless you are 100% sure you know what each and every slider does and how they interact, abandon them. Don't manually tweak a single setting. Embrace the TC (at least in the short term). Only use the playmaker and target man checkboxes to specify them and the TM's supply type (should you wish to).

3: Become aware that the strategy names are more plastic than they seem. The defensive strategy still attacks on the counter, whereas the attacking strategy can still be defensively solid. Bar the two extremes (Contain and Overload), each strategy is both defensive and attacking. A good rule of thumb is that if you want to play with a lot of deep midfielders and a short passing game, choose a less attacking strategy, whereas if you want to have high, effective wingers and a direct style, choose a more attacking strategy. Choose and save three core strategies for your trained tactics, but don't worry about the reserve ones or how well trained they are. Just focus on a specific style and use that as your base tactic in all matches until you are becoming more confident about your decision making.

4: Focus on roles and duties in the TC. Make sure you have one Attack duty in defence, one Attack and one Defend in midfield, and one Support in attack (especially if you have a lone FC). Make sure you have at least one no-nonsense, hard-working midfielder role. If you want to use a PM, will he be in the best position to hurt players, or will your approach see him isolated (see point eleven).

5: Look at the team comparison page to determine how strong / weak your team is to the divisional average. Use the tactical adjustments to take advantage of / cover for this (e.g. if you have a very slow or lazy team, stand off more, whereas if they are quick and hard-working, press more)

6: Use the shouts to develop and save a favoured playing style, which should also suit your team strengths / weaknesses. For example, a highly technical team can sit deep and counter at pace, so using retain possession, pass into space, run at defence with a counter strategy may be worthwhile. A less technical but more physical team might want to impose themselves in a different way, so consider using get ball forwards, hit early crosses, get stuck in with an attack strategy.

7: Before each match, look at the weather conditions and the opposing team's formation to determine your match strategy. It can be very difficult to counter attack on a heavy, chewed up pitch, so you might have to abandon your preferred style and play an uglier game. You might want to expose an opponents lone wide player formation and exploit the flanks or look for overlap. You might be happy with your starting system.

8: Look at the opposing team formation or player condition / skills and use OIs to counter them. You could use OIs to counter dangerous players or stop crosses coming in, or to target unfit, slow or cowardly players.

9: Play the match. During the game, don't be afraid to change things up through shouts and strategies if things are not working. Do it logically rather than willy nilly though. For example, you might think that sitting deeper and countering will produce more chances than becoming more aggressive, as it will pull the opposition out a bit more. Once you've scored, decide whether you want to push for more goals or hang onto a lead and change things / keep things the same based on that decision.

10: Realise that teamtalks are contextual. They do not relate to the scoreline, rather how expected the scoreline is versus the quality / reputation of the opposition and the football you actually played. Sometimes you can be delighted at 0-0, at other times, if you've scraped a 2-0 lead with very few chances against a poor team, warning the team against complacency is required. React to what you think should have happened, not the scoreline.

11: Never stop learning. I recently worked out why my pass into space strategy wasn't working when I employed an attacking staretgy. Watching through the match after a dour 0-0, it became obvious to me that everyone was rushing so far forward that my main deep creators were my BWM and FB/S. Not ideal. However, with a less aggressive strategy, my main deep creators were my AP and W/S, which was what I wanted. Hence, I abandoned the attacking strategy and played on the counter as a standard approach, changing my roles and shouts if I ever decided to play more aggressively (usually because of the weather / pitch conditions).

12: Finally, if you get stuck and frustrated, rather than posting in GD to complain, come to visit the tactics forum and explain your problem. As long as you are clear and detailed, then it is very unusual for us not to be able to help.

Good luck and play well. Remember, we are here to help. We all want you to enjoy FM13 as much as we are.

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top post - something very relevant to every single one of us.

I highly agree with the concept of never stop learning. I am constantly changing, adapting my tactics, finding things out, noticing things etc.

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:applause:

You should get a copy of this stickied in GENERAL too...... so many post there and not here..... we're not elitist :p

There are some awesome tips in there.

Might I just add something. Learn what instructions do.... all of them. WWfan makes reference to 'shouts', but do you know what they do? Did you know that they have changed since FM12 (a little).

In order to ascertain how your team represent themselves within the league, goto your SENIOR SQUAD screen and then on the right near the top you can see a REPORT button, hit that. Directly below that you can see a COMPARISON button, hit that.

Now, what you are looking at is a set of tabs. General, All, GK, Defence, Midfield and Attack. Have a look through those and see if anything sticks out at you.

WWfan also mentioned Collision detection.......... Balance and Strength are your friend in this version of the game. You may have also noticed that many players are now a lot weaker and have far less balance that before.

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1: Be prepared to admit you have a problem and need to change your approach. Until you do, nobody can help you.

my name is JD and I'm an alcoholic...wait.

great post. :thup:

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my name is JD and I'm an alcoholic...wait.

great post. :thup:

Got the reference then ;)

In my opinion, which I hope is educated, a great deal of the problem people have in enjoying FM13 relates to slider addiction. They don't know what they do but are loathe to leave them alone.

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6: Use the shouts to develop and save a favoured playing style, which should also suit your team strengths / weaknesses. For example, a highly technical team can sit deep and counter at pace, so using retain possession, pass into space, run at defence with a counter strategy may be worthwhile. A less technical but more physical team might want to impose themselves in a different way, so consider using get ball forwards, hit early crosses, get stuck in with an attack strategy.

That's pretty much my set up these days once my team begins to get stronger. Although I never thought of using the run at defence shout. At the moment I use retain possession, stay on feet, pass into space, push higher up, work ball into box and hassle opponents shouts. So I might try run at defence to as I have a highly technical squad who are great dribblers and have quite a bit of pace in attack.

11: Never stop learning. I recently worked out why my pass into space strategy wasn't working when I employed an attacking staretgy. Watching through the match after a dour 0-0, it became obvious to me that everyone was rushing so far forward that my main deep creators were my BWM and FB/S. Not ideal. However, with a less aggressive strategy, my main deep creators were my AP and W/S, which was what I wanted. Hence, I abandoned the attacking strategy and played on the counter as a standard approach, changing my roles and shouts if I ever decided to play more aggressively (usually because of the weather / pitch conditions).

I know it's not quite the same but I had an issue where my striker was getting far to advanced and it was taking away from play. I was playing as Spurs and my whole system relies on a highly technical counter attacking game. The idea is Adebayor drops deep as a treq and creates space for Bale and Nem/Lennon to exploit with their pace and acceleration. This had been working great but then Adebayor got injured for a few months so that meant while I played the same concept I was using Defoe as the Treq. Now because Defoe is faster than Ade this mean't the same space didn't appear for my AMR/AML because Defoe wasn't making the space, instead he was getting more advanced. So I had to adapt and rather than use the inside forward roles for the wide players I changed Bale to be a winger to take advantage os Defoe's more advanced position. It resulted in a 5-0 win. If I had not made the change I don't know how I would have got the win because Defoe was to advanced and the wide players couldn't have supported him intime. Meaning it would have been very easy to defend against.

I think this is one aspect that is often forgotten. You have to realise unless you get like for like players you might have to adapt a certain role now and again depending on who you have to use.

Some great advice in your opening post wwfan :thup:

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I think this is one aspect that is often forgotten. You have to realise unless you get like for like players you might have to adapt a certain role now and again depending on who you have to use.

I still love that after all these years, I can still learn new stuff. Hadn't thought about my creators being too high in an aggressive tactic until I watched a match in detail. I still enjoy that the first time I played Ov after we introduced shouts into the TC, he beat me by applying a system that, while logical, I hadn't even contemplated.

Handed him his ass every time after that, mind!

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I think this is one aspect that is often forgotten. You have to realise unless you get like for like players you might have to adapt a certain role now and again depending on who you have to use.

Some great advice in your opening post wwfan :thup:

Yep, definitely agree here. I've had to alter the main formation I'm using in my career game now, as I appear to have no wingers at all, so have to rely on creating the space using my midfield, then use a pair of marauding fullbacks to stretch the opposition as I go forward.

Initial tests show this works, but its a case of tweaking the roles depending on which players I have available.

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Yep, definitely agree here. I've had to alter the main formation I'm using in my career game now, as I appear to have no wingers at all, so have to rely on creating the space using my midfield, then use a pair of marauding fullbacks to stretch the opposition as I go forward.

Initial tests show this works, but its a case of tweaking the roles depending on which players I have available.

On one of my saves in Brazil, I had to use that approach and adopted a narrow 41212 until I got better players when reaching the top division.

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Good post, honestly my patience is wearing thin with people not understanding the sliders and simply accepting them to work regardless of how illogical the setup is. KISS is the best wa to approach the game. And accept that you will lose with a set of prima donnas once in a while.Back to my island paradise sipping single malts and enjoying the surf

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I'm still playing FM12 and this information is more than relevant for what I'm doing. Apart from my slight inability to beat Real away from home and 3 consecutive CL final bottle jobs (2 went to extra time and 1 to penalties), I think I have most things pretty nailed down. Great post :thup:

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On one of my saves in Brazil, I had to use that approach and adopted a narrow 41212 until I got better players when reaching the top division.

I think I've made it doubly difficult for myself by only buying English/British players after the end of the first season...:)

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Can I ask where you would put an attack duty in defence?

Fullbacks/wingbacks?

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Thanks wwfan for allowing me to translate your guide in french. Since it is aimed to be shared, I though I could post a translation here if somebody is interested, feel free to use it as you wish.

Un peu de contexte

Je sais que les membres du forum semblent penser que je défends obstinément et aveuglément Football Manager, mais mes travaux en collaboration avec SI et FM ont commencé parce qu’à cette époque, je ressentais la même frustration que vous maintenant pour le moteur de match de FM06. Mon tout premier sujet avait pour titre (approximativement) « FM06 : Moteur de match profondément imparfait? A cette époque, je n’avais pas de réelle compréhension tactique du football. Comme beaucoup d’entre vous, je jouais un peu et regardais des bribes de matchs, mais je n’avais jamais vraiment pris le temps de me plonger dans les fondamentaux tactiques du football. En tant que simple observateur, j’adhérais simplement au concept de e qui était requis pour « battre le moteur de match ». Cela ne fonctionnait plus de FM05 à FM06. Je ne savais plus quoi faire. Peu importe ce que j’essayais, le jeu produit était horrible. Je partais bien au début, puis mon équipe s’effondrait. Je finissais bon dernier dans la BSP, ce fut la première et dernière fois.

Bien que j’étais réellement frustré par cette situation, je ne pouvais pas me résoudre à croire que SI proposerait un moteur de match qui ne permettrait pas le succès en utilisant les formations basiques du football. Je commençais donc à expérimenté avec d’innombrables combinaisons de réglages jusqu’à ce que je trouve une méthode efficace sur le long terme. J’ai téléchargé et testé toutes les soi-disant « super-tactique ». Toutes échouèrent, soit en perdant lamentablement ou en produisant un jeu immonde. J’ai ensuite essayé de construire mon propre système. J’ai du joué Maidenhead v Cambridge Coty plus de 50 fois. Finalement, j’ai compris la logique utilisée par le moteur de match et je commençais à gagner ce match à chaque fois. Puis, j’ai continué ma saison et j’ai obtenu de très bons résultats, satisfait à fois de la victoire et de la manière ! Par la suite, j’ai postés mes résultats et mes conclusions sur le forum, le premier des TT&F venait de paraitre

FM07 demandait une légère adaptation d’approche car la mentalité était devenu plus sensible. Vous ne pouviez plus mettre en place un système stable à fois en attaque et en défense (sans chercher à exploiter le moteur de match évidemment). Pour parer à cela, l’idée était de construire un système de mentalité plus compact, ce qui fonctionna toujours depuis. Depuis cette période, je n’ai jamais eu à changer ma logique de base (système de mentalité cohérent + structure courses de loin = système tactique solide). De FM07 à FM13, cela s’est vérifié. Depuis FM10 et l’introduction du créateur tactique, les équipes contrôlées par l’IA ont également utilisé cette logique (bien que sans cet approt créatif que le manager peut apporter et essayer)

Jusqu’à FM12, même ces systèmes tactiques logiques et solides pouvaient être battus par les « super-tactiques » utilisant les défauts du moteur de match. La faille majeure était le manque de détection de collisions entre les joueurs, ce qui signifiait que l’utilisateur pouvait jouer avec un attaquant de pointe statique (par exemple, 4-2-3-1 avec un renard des surfaces ou un attaquant pivot) et forcer des passes en profondeur dans sa direction. Parce qu’il pouvait littéralement passer à travers les défenseurs comme s’ils n’étaient pas là, il était sur d’avoir un bon nombre d’opportunités par match dans un tel système. Mettez un bon joueur dans cette position, une paire de bons meneurs de jeu derrière et gardez votre défense basse et compacte et roule ma poule.

Est-ce que cette manière de joueur était imbattable ? Elle avait quelques difficultés contre les équipes IA jouant bas, l’attaquant central isolé devait alors battre ou s’échapper de nombreux défenseurs, rendant ses tirs plus délicats. Beaucoup de joueurs ont fait l’expérience du scénario suivant : des tirs en nombre, aucun but, l’IA marquant sur sa première tentative. Cela se produisait parce que , comme FM13 le confirma, les joueurs devenaient nerveux, frustré ou en colère lorsque les occasions de marquer n’étaient pas concrétisées, avec pour conséquence une plus grande probabilité d’erreurs. L’équipe IA avec une faible réputation, heureuse de contenir une équipe plus huppée, voyaient son moral renforcé par les tentatives adverses ratées, avec pour conséquence une plus grande chance de concrétiser ses contre-attaques. Cependant, les utilisateurs employant ce type de systèmes parvenaient malgré tout à obtenir de bons résultats contre les bonnes équipes puisque leur attaquant de pointe avait plus d’espaces à sa disposition.

Cependant, ces tactiques ne fonctionneraient pas en réalité. Bien que l’IA ne puisse pas les contrer, nous avons en fait prouvé qu’elles ne fonctionneraient pas contre un joueur correct. Juste avant la fermeture de FMLive, j’ai aidé et guidé un bon nombre d’utilisateurs frustrés par les résultats contre ces tactique sur la manière de stopper efficacement ces tactiques unidimensionelles (bloquer les lignes de passes, ouvrir les espaces, les contrer ou les attaquer dans ces espaces) Chacun de ces utilisateurs a réussi. Venons en maintenant à FM13.

La détection des collisions dans FM13 signifie que l’attaquant isolé à la pointe de votre formation, fourni en ballon d’une seule manière ne fonctionnera plus. Il n’a plus la possibilité de passer à travers la défense balle au pied. Il doit contourner les défenseurs centraux, qui le repoussent facilement et réduisent drastiquement les espaces. 90% des tactiques postées sur le forum sont de ce type (les 10 autres % étant complètement illogiques). Comment procédez alors ? Pour le savoir, continuez à lire.[/align-justify]

Les 12 commandements

1. Soyez prêt à reconnaître que vous avez un problème et que vous avez besoin de modifier votre approche du jeu. Personne ne pourra vous aider sinon.

2. A moins que vous ne soyez 100% sur de la signification, des implications et des interactions de chaque curseurs, ne les utilisez pas. Ne cochez pas le moindre d’entre eux. Adhérez complètement au créateur tactique (au moins d’une manière provisoire). Si vous le souhaitez, utilisez seulement les consignes collectives de meneur de jeu, de pivot et de types de passes au pivot.

3. Soyez conscient que les dénominations des stratégies sont avant tout cosmétiques. La stratégie défense attaquera quand même en contre, tandis que la stratégie offensive peut-être également être solide défensivement. A part les 2 extrêmes (contenir et surnombre), chaque stratégie est bien-évidemment défensive et offensive. Une astuce rapide, si vous souhaitez jouez avec des milieux de terrain bas pratiquant un jeu de passe court, choisissez une stratégie moins offensive. Tandis que si vous souhaitez jouez avec des ailiers hauts, provoquant avec le ballon et avec un style direct, choisissez une stratégie plus offensive. Mettez en place et sauvegardez dans la préparation de match 3 stratégies que vous utiliserez souvent, ne vous inquiétez pas trop à propos des autres stratégies et comment elles sont assimilées par votre effectif. Concentrez vous juste sur un style spécifique et utilisez le comme système de base dans tous vos match jusqu’à ce que vous soyez plus à l’aise et plus confiant dans vos prise de décision.

4. Prenez le temps d’établir les rôles et les tâches dans le créateur tactique. Soyez sur d’avoir une tâche attaque en défense, une tâche défense et une tâche attaque au milieu de terrain, et une tâche de soutien en attaque (particulièrement si vous avez un attaquant isolé). Vérifiez que vous avez au moins un milieu de terrain sobre et efficace à la récupération. Si vous voulez utiliser un meneur de jeu, sera-t-il dans les meilleurs conditions pour faire la différence ou sera-t-il isolé (voir point 11)

5. Prenez quelques minutes pour analyser les informations de comparaison d’équipes pour évaluer vos forces et faiblesses par rapport au reste du championnat. Utilisez les styles de jeu et les consignes du banc de touche pour tirer avantage de vos forces / couvrir vos points faibles. Par exemple, si votre équipe est lente ou n’est pas très active, pressez-moins, tandis que pour équipe rapide et travailleuse, pressez plus.

6. Utilisez les consignes du banc de touche pour développer et consolider un style de jeu favori, qui doit bien entendu adhérer et coller aux qualités de votre équipe. Par exemple, une équipe très technique peu attendre l’adversaire et le contre-attaquer avec vitesse ; donc utiliser la consigne « conservez le ballon, passez dans les espaces, prenez la défense de vitesse » avec une stratégie de contre peut-être bénéfique. Une équipe moins technique mais avec plus d’impact physique peut chercher à s’imposer d’autre façon, considérez donc l’utilisation de « mettez la balle devant, centrez dès que possible, engagez-vous plus » avec une stratégie offensive.

7. Avant chaque match, regardez la météo et la formation adverse pour déterminer votre stratégie. Il peut être très compliqué de contre-attaquer sur un terrain lourd et boueux, donc vous devrez peut-être abandonner votre style préféré pour jouer un jeu plus sobre mais plus efficace. Vous pouvez chercher à tirer parti du seul joueur de couloir adverse en utilisant les ailes ou en dédoublant avec le latéral. Vous pouvez aussi être satisfait de votre système standard !

8. Observez la formation adverse et la condition physique/points forts des joueurs et utilisez les consignes particulières pour les contrer. Vous pouvez utiliser les consignes particulières pour stopper les joueurs dangereux ou bloquer les centres arrivant devant votre but, ou pour prendre comme cible des joueurs en mauvaise condition physique, lent ou peu courageux.

9. Jouez le match. Pendant la rencontre, n’ayez pas peur de changer un plan de jeu qui ne fonctionne pas en utilisant les consignes du banc de touche. Faite le cependant de manière rationnelle plutôt qu’au hasard…Par exemple, vous pouvez penser que jouer plus bas et opérer en contre-attaque produira plus de d’opportunités qu’être plus pro-actif avec le ballon, puisque cela va aspirer l’adversaire hors de sa moitiée de terrain. Une fois que vous avez marqué, décidez si vous voulez pousser pour aggraver le score ou vous si vous souhaitez conserver cet avantage en adaptant/gardant votre plan de jeu.

10. Prenez conscience que les causeries d’équipe dépendent du contexte du match. Elles ne sont pas en relation directe avec le tableau d’affichage. Elles sont plutôt en relation avec le score attendu en comparaison avec la réputation/qualité de l’adversaire et le niveau de football produit. Parfois, vous pouvez être ravi d’un 0-0, par contre si vous avez difficilement acquis un avantage de 2-0 avec très peu d’opportunités contre une équipe plus faible que la votre, dire à l’équipe de ne pas être trop sure d’elle peut-être utile. Réagissez par rapport à ce qui est attendu, pas par rapport au score

11. Soyez ouvert et essayez de résoudre vos problèmes. Dernièrement, j’ai enfin compris pourquoi ma stratégie de passes dans les espaces ne fonctionnait tout simplement pas avec une stratégie offensive. En regardant à nouveau un match après un triste 0-0, il m’apparut alors évident que les déplacements offensifs de mes joueurs dans le mur défensif adverse conduisait à ce que mes sources de créativité basses sur le terrain étaient en fait mon milieu récupérateur et mon défenseur latéral. Pas franchement optimal. Cependant, avec une stratégie moins agressive, mes principales sources de créativité basses devenaient mon meneur de jeu avancé et mon ailier-soutien, ce qui collait mon plan initial. Du coup, j’ai rapidement abandonné la stratégie offensive et j’ai utilisé la stratégie de contre comme mon choix stratégique standard, jouant sur les rôles et les consignes du banc de touche si jamais je décidais d’adopter une posture plus agressive (en général, à cause de la météo ou de l’état du terrain)

12. Dernière chose, si vous n’arrivez à rien et devenez frustré, plutôt que de poster votre énervement, venez visiter le forum tactique et expliquez votre problème. Du moment que vous êtes clair et fournissez des détails sur votre système de jeu, vous serez aidé et guidé hors de cette impasse.

Bonne chance et bon jeu. Souvenez vous, nous sommes ici pour vous aider. Nous souhaitons que vous appréciez FM13, autant que nous le faisons.

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How does the style(rigid and etc) actually affect our tactics?

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While the opening post is great to understand some of the mechanics, to be honest, this year the game is not realistic concerning top clubs. Understanding the match engine to extreme details or not.

When playing a team like Barca, Man Utd, Bayern or likewise, they have a system well known to you. You try to replicate it, and then you would expect to win 75% of the games wihtout altering your base tactic. Lets take Barca as an example, they have played 13 games so far in the season IRL, 12-1-0 are there current stats, 43-15 goal difference, suggesting that the average result of their games is 3,3 - 1,1. Their tactics are either a 4-5-1 as it is mentioned in FM or a 3-2-2-2-1, it is harder to line up here though. Lets say all players are fit - (they have not been IRL) - the lineup would be:

Valdes,

Alba, Pique, Puyol, Dani Alves,

Busquets, Xavi, Cesc,

Iniesta, Messi

Villa

Then there are some tweaks when there are injuries, you can put Mascherano in defence or midfield. Cesc can be a AMC and play without ST. Messi can be ST and Pedro/Alexis play.

But no matter the opponent, Barca will stick to their gameplan, play slow possesion football, with two central defenders staying back at all times, two very attacking wing backs, busquets as anchor man, xavi playmaker, paired with Cesc and then depending on formation and players available lets pretend Iniesta and Messi are AML and AMR, two inside forwards at most times, Messi set to attacking, Iniesta set to support. Then we have to decide if we should use a AMC (Cesc) or a ST (Villa, Alexis, Messi). For ease and no confusion lets take Villa.

Lets try to translate it into FM roles and duties and leave out philosophy (barca is control, attacking 95% of their games IMO).

Team instructions (if not mentioned, standard settings).

- Press more (barca is well know for their high re-pressure when having lost the ball)

- Shorter passing

- Roaming (I would like to set it for the offensive players, but lets leave it as standard though).

Roles and duties:

Valdes - Goalkeeper (D)

Dani Alves - Wingback (A)

Jordi Alba - Wingback (A)

Pique - BPD - (D)

Puyol - CD - (D)

Busquts - Anchor - (D)

Xavi - DLP - (S)

Cesc- CM - (A)

Iniesta - IF - (S)

Messi - IF - (A)

Villa - DLF - (S)

Shouts I would use; Run at defence, retain possesion, hassle opponents (maybe not overuse as the standard team instructions are already press more).

This would replicate pretty much how Barca play 90% of their home games and 75% of the away games.

However when setting this up in FM, they play like getafte, do not have the majority of possesion, do not create 10+ chances pr game, and certainly does not make an average of 3 goals pr game. Why is that - what is needed to replicate Barca, when you have arguebly the best players available. This is not a rant as such, but I try to understand the apparently major changes to this years FM, especially when you have a set of players superior to your opponents.

Let me hear your thougths.

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5: Look at the team comparison page to determine how strong / weak your team is to the divisional average. Use the tactical adjustments to take advantage of / cover for this (e.g. if you have a very slow or lazy team, stand off more, whereas if they are quick and hard-working, press more)

6: Use the shouts to develop and save a favoured playing style, which should also suit your team strengths / weaknesses. For example, a highly technical team can sit deep and counter at pace, so using retain possession, pass into space, run at defence with a counter strategy may be worthwhile. A less technical but more physical team might want to impose themselves in a different way, so consider using get ball forwards, hit early crosses, get stuck in with an attack strategy.

Def:

vxf4b4.png

Mid:

20sinm.png

Att:

16gx545.png

Based on my team comparison can you make a suggestion on how i should look to play (use shouts) off the above ratings?

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Why does everything look so much sexier in French?

yes it does, God knows why!?

A tad longer as well :)

Innuendo?

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Wez,

An Attacking, high tempo, short passing, high closind down (stay on feet) and throughballs. Though. I have no idea who you year team is or the quality/number of players you have available. This is purely my suggestion based on what you have posted.

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While the opening post is great to understand some of the mechanics, to be honest, this year the game is not realistic concerning top clubs. Understanding the match engine to extreme details or not.

When playing a team like Barca, Man Utd, Bayern or likewise, they have a system well known to you. You try to replicate it, and then you would expect to win 75% of the games wihtout altering your base tactic. Lets take Barca as an example, they have played 13 games so far in the season IRL, 12-1-0 are there current stats, 43-15 goal difference, suggesting that the average result of their games is 3,3 - 1,1. Their tactics are either a 4-5-1 as it is mentioned in FM or a 3-2-2-2-1, it is harder to line up here though. Lets say all players are fit - (they have not been IRL) - the lineup would be:

Valdes,

Alba, Pique, Puyol, Dani Alves,

Busquets, Xavi, Cesc,

Iniesta, Messi

Villa

Then there are some tweaks when there are injuries, you can put Mascherano in defence or midfield. Cesc can be a AMC and play without ST. Messi can be ST and Pedro/Alexis play.

But no matter the opponent, Barca will stick to their gameplan, play slow possesion football, with two central defenders staying back at all times, two very attacking wing backs, busquets as anchor man, xavi playmaker, paired with Cesc and then depending on formation and players available lets pretend Iniesta and Messi are AML and AMR, two inside forwards at most times, Messi set to attacking, Iniesta set to support. Then we have to decide if we should use a AMC (Cesc) or a ST (Villa, Alexis, Messi). For ease and no confusion lets take Villa.

Lets try to translate it into FM roles and duties and leave out philosophy (barca is control, attacking 95% of their games IMO).

Team instructions (if not mentioned, standard settings).

- Press more (barca is well know for their high re-pressure when having lost the ball)

- Shorter passing

- Roaming (I would like to set it for the offensive players, but lets leave it as standard though).

Roles and duties:

Valdes - Goalkeeper (D)

Dani Alves - Wingback (A)

Jordi Alba - Wingback (A)

Pique - BPD - (D)

Puyol - CD - (D)

Busquts - Anchor - (D)

Xavi - DLP - (S)

Cesc- CM - (A)

Iniesta - IF - (S)

Messi - IF - (A)

Villa - DLF - (S)

Shouts I would use; Run at defence, retain possesion, hassle opponents (maybe not overuse as the standard team instructions are already press more).

This would replicate pretty much how Barca play 90% of their home games and 75% of the away games.

However when setting this up in FM, they play like getafte, do not have the majority of possesion, do not create 10+ chances pr game, and certainly does not make an average of 3 goals pr game. Why is that - what is needed to replicate Barca, when you have arguebly the best players available. This is not a rant as such, but I try to understand the apparently major changes to this years FM, especially when you have a set of players superior to your opponents.

Let me hear your thougths.

David Villa doesn't play as a ST for Barca, he's always been used as an inside forward on the flank with Messi operating as a false nine (Trequarista).

The other thing I would say that Barca play an uber-patient approach when they get into the final third. That means in terms of instructions like Run-with-ball, Try long shots and Cross ball - they try to avoid them. So shouts such as Play through Defence and Work ball into box, as well as reducing the frequency of crosses, is more Barca like. They also try to construct most of their attacks through the centre of the pitch.

If you combine all this then it will probably make it a lot harder to break down a packed defence which leads to the cries that their style of play is one-dimensional and boring, but as you're playing as Barca, your players have the required technical and mental attributes to overcome this most of the time. The worst thing you could do is restrict their creative freedom. Your relying on their creative intelligence of the Messi-Xavi-Iniesta trio as well as the constant attacking runs from your more direct wide players.

Mentality will also have an effect on the patience of your players in the final-third so I try to avoid aggressive, attacking mentalities. For example, I use the following mentalities:

Valdes: 10

Pique: 10

Puyol: 10

Dani Alves: 13

Alba: 13

Busquets: 10

Xavi: 8

Iniesta: 10

Pedro: 13

Villa: 13

Messi: 8

The spine of the team is used to retain possession whilst the wide players make attacking runs forward. Through the middle, the mentalities are tightly knitted together meaning that passing decisions/movements should be very fluid. Xavi's and Messi's mentalities should allow them to drop a little deeper from their starting position and dictate play. The mentalities of the centre-backs and Busquets means that in the transitioning phase from attack-to-defence, it should be easier to win the ball back and keep the pressure in the opposing team's half.

I use custom mentalities but only because the TC couldn't offer one that I felt comfortable with. It's a mixture of the Balanced and Very Fluid philosophies. I wish I could combine my own mentality system with the use of the TC and shouts.

I found that for Xavi, the Advanced Playmaker support role works a lot better for the system as a whole rather than the DLP, because of the increase in runs-from-deep. The main issue with the DLP is that too often he would be man-marked, which meant that as the play got into the final third of the pitch, he would become isolated from the attack. You want him to get into the cracks and spaces of the opposition and to be constantly available for short, easy passing options. For this reason, I would avoid setting him a roaming instruction as it pushes him away from the key central area.

Also, you don't need to use a slow tempo. A normal tempo would do fine.

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David Villa doesn't play as a ST for Barca, he's always been used as an inside forward on the flank with Messi operating as a false nine (Trequarista).

The other thing I would say that Barca play an uber-patient approach when they get into the final third. That means in terms of instructions like Run-with-ball, Try long shots and Cross ball - they try to avoid them. So shouts such as Play through Defence and Work ball into box, as well as reducing the frequency of crosses, is more Barca like. They also try to construct most of their attacks through the centre of the pitch.

If you combine all this then it will probably make it a lot harder to break down a packed defence which leads to the cries that their style of play is one-dimensional and boring, but as you're playing as Barca, your players have the required technical and mental attributes to overcome this most of the time. The worst thing you could do is restrict their creative freedom. Your relying on their creative intelligence of the Messi-Xavi-Iniesta trio as well as the constant attacking runs from your more direct wide players.

Mentality will also have an effect on the patience of your players in the final-third so I try to avoid aggressive, attacking mentalities. For example, I use the following mentalities:

Valdes: 10

Pique: 10

Puyol: 10

Dani Alves: 13

Alba: 13

Busquets: 10

Xavi: 8

Iniesta: 10

Pedro: 13

Villa: 13

Messi: 8

The spine of the team is used to retain possession whilst the wide players make attacking runs forward. Through the middle, the mentalities are tightly knitted together meaning that passing decisions/movements should be very fluid. Xavi's and Messi's mentalities should allow them to drop a little deeper from their starting position and dictate play. The mentalities of the centre-backs and Busquets means that in the transitioning phase from attack-to-defence, it should be easier to win the ball back and keep the pressure in the opposing team's half.

I use custom mentalities but only because the TC couldn't offer one that I felt comfortable with. It's a mixture of the Balanced and Very Fluid philosophies. I wish I could combine my own mentality system with the use of the TC and shouts.

I found that for Xavi, the Advanced Playmaker support role works a lot better for the system as a whole rather than the DLP, because of the increase in runs-from-deep. The main issue with the DLP is that too often he would be man-marked, which meant that as the play got into the final third of the pitch, he would become isolated from the attack. You want him to get into the cracks and spaces of the opposition and to be constantly available for short, easy passing options. For this reason, I would avoid setting him a roaming instruction as it pushes him away from the key central area.

Also, you don't need to use a slow tempo. A normal tempo would do fine.

Thanks for your feedback. It does actually prove my point pretty well. You cannot play with a top team using the TC as it is, you have to make manual adjustments to suit your team. And overall I feel you have to make too many adjustments.

If I play it like I described above, after the possibilities of the TC, for the first 13 games of the season it is a 6-4-3, and I have not yet played Real, Atl. Madrid and Valencia. So the question is, where do the GE not match with the tactical possibilites and can it be agreed as a whole, that it is very unlikely that a tactic made using the TC, can emulate top teams superiority, but rather is a good tool for LLM and smaller teams in bigger leagues?

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I think this is one aspect that is often forgotten. You have to realise unless you get like for like players you might have to adapt a certain role now and again depending on who you have to use.

Some great advice in your opening post wwfan :thup:

This is something I never even considered. For example, if my striker, who was great in one particular role, go injured, id replace him with another striker and be angry when he never scored. never did i consider about adapting the role to his strengths etc. Another great bit of advice!

Also, cracking original post wwfan! These 12 steps and you advice generally (amongst others) have gretly improved my game! I am going to post a more detailed thread of my own shortly but this is really invaluable advice!

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Thanks for your feedback. It does actually prove my point pretty well. You cannot play with a top team using the TC as it is, you have to make manual adjustments to suit your team. And overall I feel you have to make too many adjustments.

It doesn't prove any point though because it's not true. You can use a top team while using the TC and play all different kinds of football. I'm currently Spurs and I'm set up quite simliar to a Barca real life tactic. The only changes I've ever made manually are either RFD on 1 player and long shots. The rest gets altered with shouts.

If I play it like I described above, after the possibilities of the TC, for the first 13 games of the season it is a 6-4-3, and I have not yet played Real, Atl. Madrid and Valencia. So the question is, where do the GE not match with the tactical possibilites and can it be agreed as a whole, that it is very unlikely that a tactic made using the TC, can emulate top teams superiority, but rather is a good tool for LLM and smaller teams in bigger leagues?

Or another way of looking at it is, you don't understand the TC and shouts fully? Or you don't know how to change a game that isn't going your way.

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It doesn't prove any point though because it's not true. You can use a top team while using the TC and play all different kinds of football. I'm currently Spurs and I'm set up quite simliar to a Barca real life tactic. The only changes I've ever made manually are either RFD on 1 player and long shots. The rest gets altered with shouts.

Or another way of looking at it is, you don't understand the TC and shouts fully? Or you don't know how to change a game that isn't going your way.

I beg to differ, in the way that it proves that my initial statement is correct, the game is too hard. If a newcomer to the game wants to play without micromanaging every setting, he would most likely do what I described. And wont match any expectations playing wise nor result wise.

I dont want to play different types of football, I want to play as Barca does, and they do play their typical game in 85-90% of the games.

If you think I dont understand the TC and shouts, please enlighten me, to how you would setup Barca compared to mine. Then I will gladly try it out and post the results and comment on the play.

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I beg to differ, in the way that it proves that my initial statement is correct, the game is too hard. If a newcomer to the game wants to play without micromanaging every setting, he would most likely do what I described. And wont match any expectations playing wise nor result wise.

I dont want to play different types of football, I want to play as Barca does, and they do play their typical game in 85-90% of the games.

If you think I dont understand the TC and shouts, please enlighten me, to how you would setup Barca compared to mine. Then I will gladly try it out and post the results and comment on the play.

Just because you can't achieve something and get the style that you think is the Barca way of playing doesn't mean you can't get it to work with the use of the TC and shouts. Again it doesn't prove any point all it shows is what you think based on your own experiences. But that doesn't mean it cannot be done. wwfan did a thread on his take on how Barca worked, I suggest you give that thread a read if you haven't already.

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From OP:

"I then tried working out my own system. I must have played Maidenhead v Cambridge City 50+ times. "

I really love this game and I am totally addicted to it, but the quote above is really a very telling quote as to what is wrong with parts of the game. To be able to make a tactic work and play the game with decent success you shouldn't have to watch the same match 50+ times, that is just insane. It is a game, I wish SI would remember that.

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Just because you can't achieve something and get the style that you think is the Barca way of playing doesn't mean you can't get it to work with the use of the TC and shouts. Again it doesn't prove any point all it shows is what you think based on your own experiences. But that doesn't mean it cannot be done. wwfan did a thread on his take on how Barca worked, I suggest you give that thread a read if you haven't already.

I have read it, and I have set up my tactics pretty close to his. I have some minor differences, primarily I use an Anchor man where he use a DMC. I use a Central Midfielder where he use a DLP. Then he uses a treq where I use a DLF.

Now you might say that this is big differences - but looking at the settings the changes to the roles does, I can hardly believe that.

But I do think you are missing my point a bit. If you setup the tactic as provided in the post from last year, you do struggle to keep 60% possesion and you also struggle to be effective in front of goal. I dont have a problem with it, but I still feel you have to make either major or minor adjustments to each player, before you see the play and results that you expect from managing barca.

Im not trying to diss the opening post, it is very very good and useful, I just think sometimes it is too simplified to say that everything can be done using shouts and the TC tactics as they are. More is needed.

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Thanks for your feedback. It does actually prove my point pretty well. You cannot play with a top team using the TC as it is, you have to make manual adjustments to suit your team. And overall I feel you have to make too many adjustments.

If I play it like I described above, after the possibilities of the TC, for the first 13 games of the season it is a 6-4-3, and I have not yet played Real, Atl. Madrid and Valencia. So the question is, where do the GE not match with the tactical possibilites and can it be agreed as a whole, that it is very unlikely that a tactic made using the TC, can emulate top teams superiority, but rather is a good tool for LLM and smaller teams in bigger leagues?

I disagree. If you have really grasped everything the TC can do, you'll run away with top leagues with a top team without making a single tweak.

I have some minor differences, primarily I use an Anchor man where he use a DMC. I use a Central Midfielder where he use a DLP. Then he uses a treq where I use a DLF.

Now you might say that this is big differences - but looking at the settings the changes to the roles does, I can hardly believe that.

There is quite a big difference. You have reduced the creativity and TTBs a fair bit by doing that. You are also stopping the FC from dropping quite so deep, which is key to the success of the system.

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From OP:

"I then tried working out my own system. I must have played Maidenhead v Cambridge City 50+ times. "

I really love this game and I am totally addicted to it, but the quote above is really a very telling quote as to what is wrong with parts of the game. To be able to make a tactic work and play the game with decent success you shouldn't have to watch the same match 50+ times, that is just insane. It is a game, I wish SI would remember that.

I realise that, but it was 8 years ago, so I've recovered. And the TC didn't exist in those days, so I was having to move sliders around all the time. Not fun.

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wwfan I've meant to ask this question for a while but it never seemed fitting, so why not here:

I know the Advanced Forward/Attack was overpowered in FM12 and has been toned down to a more realistic level, thanks to the new collision model. That has been much to my annoyance because my FM12 tactics were often based on a lone AF/A, and as a result I've been awfully lost in FM13 as 3 seasons, 3 tactical systems and several lengthy posts for help in this forum has led me nowhere trying to extract the most of my players.

However I am rather puzzled as to why the AF/A, or a P/A, or a TM/A should inherently be an illogical player to have upfront on his own, as you have continuously advised people playing a lone striker to have him on support role, as CF/S, DLF/S or TQ. I do know in modern football often teams that play 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 want the forward to do contribute than just goals, and link play with the rest of the team. Yet from my observation an awful lot of real life teams that play these systems still play strikers that would translate in FM into an attack role - the false nine was a trend that didn't really catch on 100%. From what I see most teams try to have a complete forward but his main role will still be hung around looking for goals. Like Porto with Falcao, he had the pace the technique the aerial ability, linked a bit but didn't drop off. Surely that's a CF/A? Same could perhaps be said of Benzema in Real Madrid, to a lesser extent as he's more of a roamer but still hardly someone who drops deep to play through balls. Lesser teams do not have strikers that tick all these boxes so I see here in Portugal, a country where 4-3-3 with wide wingers is the default tactic at every level, players like João Tomás for Rio Ave, a classic veteran TM/A spearheading the attack on his own with diminishing pace and all aerial power to meet crosses from the pacey wingers.

Really just look at Zonalmarking, the most recent tactical systems and you'll find plenty of top teams playing lone strikers that do not drop deep, indeed false nine kinds are rare at the moment. Most teams seem to be striving to have a complete forward there which is rather logical. If you only have 1 striker you want him to be dangerous at all kinds of play, aerial, through balls towards him or linking to feed the rest of the team. However surely the most natural role to have up there is CF/A not CF/S? And when teams to do not have that gifted striker, some use different kinds of lone strikers on attack role?

Am I misunderstanding what a CF/A and a CF/S should be?

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I freely admit that I am addicted to sliders! (I can stop anytime I want to...its just for recreation)

I also admit that I have no clue how shouts work. And I haven't even bother to try. The sliders work just fine for me. I do use the TC as a launching point for contstructing tactics, but they very quickly bare little if any resemblance to the original. And for me thats the way it should be. It is important to experiemnt with sublte tweaks of the sliders, or at the very least ONE significant adjustment at a time. This is the only way to have even an educated guess to their effect.

Every new FM (and some of the ME patches) throw me at first. Its always a frustrating learning curve. But only one ME (FM09?) really gave me fits until it was patched.

The single biggest challenge I face in each new FM is getting the defense sorted out. The balance between Defensive Line, Mentality and Closing Down is the key for me. It always takes some time to figure out. I say "figure" out but the truth is that I have never known HOW it works, but I do figure out WHAT works for me. Those are two sublte, but significant differences.

It seems that defensive line alone is not an isolated instruction, but rather in interacts with the Mentality settings of the defenders (perhaps with overall team mentality too...but thats WAY about my level). I've also learned that Closing down seems to interact with individual players Aggression. Every FM (and some patches) have different elusive formulas.

Once I get the defensive fundamentals working its about applying a similar experiment with individual Mentality to get the space between strata right. Using a DMC makes this much easier and I suspect is why DMCs have historically been so favored in FM tactics.

When using a flat central midfield I find their mentality often needs to be LOWER than the central defenders Mentality to tighten the space between lines.

Similarly I generally use a lower mentality setting for a FC/ST to keep him from being isolated. For years I have like using a single FC with a fairly low Mentality and an AMC with a very high Mentality and forward runs. The lone deeper sitting striker pulls the back line up somewhat and its very difficult for them to pick up the surging runs of the AMC.

Finally I admit without guilt, shame or fear of judgement that I no longer make all my tactics from scratch (GASP!). And I still respect myself as a man.

I have less time to tinker with tactics for hours on end day after day. Instead I wait until the rest of you have figured out the basics, then I download your tactics (thanks for sharing) and THEN I start my tweaking and tinkering.

Thanks to all of you who take the time to share your insights and post your tactics. I know you have helped me and countless others enjoy the game better.

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I disagree. If you have really grasped everything the TC can do, you'll run away with top leagues with a top team without making a single tweak.

There is quite a big difference. You have reduced the creativity and TTBs a fair bit by doing that. You are also stopping the FC from dropping quite so deep, which is key to the success of the system.

I have tried with your Treq, and also my DLF, for 10 games. It works better with the DLF imo.

Out of curiosity, if it is key to the system, why is the ST set as AF as default instead of Treq?

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I deeply believe that this year has a lot of incongruence. I tried a lot of tactics, with different teams, against diff rivals in different situations and it's the first time in 18 years that i can't plan the next game.

It doen't matter if you play at home against the last of the table, you can't play Offensive 'cos they will have 2-3 chances and score every time. You can't play against 4-5-1 (with 5 flat midfielders) unless you play deffensive. If you win 5 games in a row you must be prepared for a next round of 4-5 disappointing results with very low performance. Just when you team learn your tactic they start to play worse. Your key players aren't capable to make 3 games in a row with good performance. Playing against the worst team, offensive, with three strikers, can finish 45 minutes without any shots on goal?. I't absolutely ridiculous

I know that it's not important to shoot more than your rivals to score more goals or having more possession, in real football. The real thing it's make key chances and now I suspect that in this game the more important thing to do it's to have a good morale (before and in-game).

i tried with Celta Vigo, Coruxo, Dundee Utd & Blackburn Rovers. Yeah, not big teams, but before this year you can't trust in a base tactic to ensure you've got certain control over situation. Now it's imposible. With Rovers, the best team in Championship by far, I played with deffensive, counter, standard and offensive approach with low results. Yes, I win a lot of games but with an absolute control over the situation, without possibility of modify things once started the game. The AI make key chances and I don't know how to do it to win games.

I really believe that SIgames can't ignore this kind of constructive criticism 'cos can be frustrating for fm series fans.

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wwfan,

There is one thing that I completely don't understand in FM2013 - why my players constantly run towards opponent's byline, why inside forwards don't want to cut inside earlier, why fullbacks don't want to cross earlier, why even my support duty striker reachs byline and shots or pass from there? Is there any remedy?

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I somewhat agree with the guide, I go through similar steps when setting up a team, however I'm not sure why I'm "not supposed to" tuch the sliders.

I know that shouts "move the sliders" and usually I regulate them myself to "have the shouts" I want in my default setup.

So here is a question for the more qualified players: is there any difference between moving the sliders and having a set of shouts turned on at the beginning of the match? I allways assumed that adjusting the sliders is better because my team can get more familliar with the style of play throug match preparation.

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I have followed the advice above in my 4-5-1, and I am having good success. 2nd year in premier leage with Bradford (took me 5 years to get o PL). First year I finished 6th and won the FA Cup, and this year I started out a bit slow until I understood I had to be more attacking, since my reputation had increased. After that, things started going much better. Fifth in PL, semin final in the Euro cup and playing (6th?) round in the FA Cup.

It took some time, but team cohesion seems to be a very important element to the game. Do not buy too many new players at the same time, and give time for players to learn the same language as well.

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From OP:

"I then tried working out my own system. I must have played Maidenhead v Cambridge City 50+ times. "

I really love this game and I am totally addicted to it, but the quote above is really a very telling quote as to what is wrong with parts of the game. To be able to make a tactic work and play the game with decent success you shouldn't have to watch the same match 50+ times, that is just insane. It is a game, I wish SI would remember that.

Well bravo to you that you have the time to go through other people's posting history to try and discredit said person when he is trying to help others, or did you keep this quote for seven years waiting to pounce?

The fact that WWFAN has been in the same spot as a lot of others means he is ideal for doing exactly what he is best at, it means he can say things in ways that newbies and others like me can understand without some long winded guide that does more to confuse than help.

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A Little Context

4: Focus on roles and duties in the TC. Make sure you have one Attack duty in defence, one Attack and one Defend in midfield, and one Support in attack (especially if you have a lone FC). Make sure you have at least one no-nonsense, hard-working midfielder role. If you want to use a PM, will he be in the best position to hurt players, or will your approach see him isolated (see point eleven).

Thank you so much for your continued patience with us all :)

I dont understand the above:

1. Do we always play an attacking role in both midfield af defence regardles of strategy?

2. If you have a single striker which player are the other parts of the attack?

I realise these questions might be obvious but I hope somebody will elaborate

Thanks

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Great thread, has helped me out a lot so far. Have tried loads of tactics off here with my Liverpool side and none have consistently worked for me so made it my aim to make my own tactic. Using the advice I have made a 4-2-3-1 formation (no wingers, 3 attacking mids) and left default settings apart from shorter passing and zonal marking while also changing the player roles. Unbeaten in 5 games so far winning 3 league games in a row, and beating Bilbao in Europa (won at home, drew away). Now have Man United at home so first big real test. So far I am creating 2-3 cc a game however still conceding goals from either an OG or headers

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One thing that puzzles me is the use of "shouts". My understanding has always been that you use the TC (complemented by the sliders perhaps) to define how you want to start the match. Then, when changes are needed during the match you use shouts to try and achieve what you want to change based on what you read from the match.

However, some of the discussions in these forums on how to achieve a certain playing style (for instance tiki-taka like football) seems to indicate that you need to apply certain combinations of "shouts" at the very beginning of each match. Am I interpreting this the wrong way? If not, wouldn't it make sense to have these shout combinations made available through the TC so the "shouts" can remain in-match responses to what is going on in a specific match?

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However, some of the discussions in these forums on how to achieve a certain playing style (for instance tiki-taka like football) seems to indicate that you need to apply certain combinations of "shouts" at the very beginning of each match. Am I interpreting this the wrong way? If not, wouldn't it make sense to have these shout combinations made available through the TC so the "shouts" can remain in-match responses to what is going on in a specific match?

You are certainly right in your intrepretation of the discussion, Snurre. I (now) tend to look at the TC as a kind of institutionalizing a certain way of play, laying out a framework for my players to work within and certain goals to obtain -- very much like real life institutions. As I indulged myself even more in the mysteries of the TC, I found that shouts will of course have a different outcome on the way I play, depending on the current strategy being used.

From the example in the OP post: with my Chelsea team I like to counter from a deep lying defensive line. Hence, in my rigid control strategy, I will often 'stand off more' and play zonal, launching attacks with a mixed passing style. The 'stand off more'-instruction will not suffice however as I like to play even lower: coherently, I will instruct the team to 'drop deeper'. This shout will not apply, though, when using my balanced standard strategy, because that will already cause my team to hold the defensive line to my satisfaction.

BTW, this is a great post wwfan! I have some suggestions and/or remarks if you will allow. For my Chelsea team mentioned above I play a narrow 4-2-3-1. Often launching attacks from deep, I use both my wing backs on a 'support' duty so to give them the opportunity to cross early and also deliver through balls in front of my lone striker (I am very much satisfied to be able to say that Torres is now again scoring every other game). They support my attacks alot and crosses from byline also at times. I see lots of assists from both deep and around area from them. I suppose that your advice on attacking instructions for defenders are really meant to say 'lots of forward runs', correct? Am I breaking some kind of rule here? :) Moreover: what is your take on ticking the 'counter attack' box even in standard strategies? I tend not to do so as I am quite satisfied with retaining possesion and passing the ball into space but I sometimes play with the thought of whether it would be effective or not. Thank you so much for explaining the ways of the game as I too struggled some to get results out of this one. Now, however my football is very pleasing to watch -- when I'm not to stubborn to alter my tactics despite bad conditions!

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While the opening post is great to understand some of the mechanics, to be honest, this year the game is not realistic concerning top clubs. Understanding the match engine to extreme details or not.

When playing a team like Barca, Man Utd, Bayern or likewise, they have a system well known to you. You try to replicate it, and then you would expect to win 75% of the games wihtout altering your base tactic. Lets take Barca as an example, they have played 13 games so far in the season IRL, 12-1-0 are there current stats, 43-15 goal difference, suggesting that the average result of their games is 3,3 - 1,1. Their tactics are either a 4-5-1 as it is mentioned in FM or a 3-2-2-2-1, it is harder to line up here though. Lets say all players are fit - (they have not been IRL) - the lineup would be:

Valdes,

Alba, Pique, Puyol, Dani Alves,

Busquets, Xavi, Cesc,

Iniesta, Messi

Villa

Then there are some tweaks when there are injuries, you can put Mascherano in defence or midfield. Cesc can be a AMC and play without ST. Messi can be ST and Pedro/Alexis play.

But no matter the opponent, Barca will stick to their gameplan, play slow possesion football, with two central defenders staying back at all times, two very attacking wing backs, busquets as anchor man, xavi playmaker, paired with Cesc and then depending on formation and players available lets pretend Iniesta and Messi are AML and AMR, two inside forwards at most times, Messi set to attacking, Iniesta set to support. Then we have to decide if we should use a AMC (Cesc) or a ST (Villa, Alexis, Messi). For ease and no confusion lets take Villa.

Lets try to translate it into FM roles and duties and leave out philosophy (barca is control, attacking 95% of their games IMO).

Team instructions (if not mentioned, standard settings).

- Press more (barca is well know for their high re-pressure when having lost the ball)

- Shorter passing

- Roaming (I would like to set it for the offensive players, but lets leave it as standard though).

Roles and duties:

Valdes - Goalkeeper (D)

Dani Alves - Wingback (A)

Jordi Alba - Wingback (A)

Pique - BPD - (D)

Puyol - CD - (D)

Busquts - Anchor - (D)

Xavi - DLP - (S)

Cesc- CM - (A)

Iniesta - IF - (S)

Messi - IF - (A)

Villa - DLF - (S)

Shouts I would use; Run at defence, retain possesion, hassle opponents (maybe not overuse as the standard team instructions are already press more).

This would replicate pretty much how Barca play 90% of their home games and 75% of the away games.

However when setting this up in FM, they play like getafte, do not have the majority of possesion, do not create 10+ chances pr game, and certainly does not make an average of 3 goals pr game. Why is that - what is needed to replicate Barca, when you have arguebly the best players available. This is not a rant as such, but I try to understand the apparently major changes to this years FM, especially when you have a set of players superior to your opponents.

Let me hear your thougths.

The thing that cannot be done like real life Barcelona using the TC is the abusive control they tend to have with Guardiola.

Real life stats of Barcelona:

Average possesion

2008/2009: 66%

2009/2010: 67%

2010/2011: 72% (59% being the lowest of the season, 85% the highest)

The lowest of the three seasons was 51%. (AKA no team was able to have more possession than them in 3 years).

Also, playing home, they didn't allowed any positional attacking phase in those 3 years. All shots conceded where during transitions. Even top teams were unable to establish positional attacking phases against them.

That can be more or less achieved in FM trough radical tweaking, but not trough a straight use of the TC.

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While the opening post is great to understand some of the mechanics, to be honest, this year the game is not realistic concerning top clubs. Understanding the match engine to extreme details or not.

When playing a team like Barca, Man Utd, Bayern or likewise, they have a system well known to you. You try to replicate it, and then you would expect to win 75% of the games wihtout altering your base tactic. Lets take Barca as an example, they have played 13 games so far in the season IRL, 12-1-0 are there current stats, 43-15 goal difference, suggesting that the average result of their games is 3,3 - 1,1. Their tactics are either a 4-5-1 as it is mentioned in FM or a 3-2-2-2-1, it is harder to line up here though. Lets say all players are fit - (they have not been IRL) - the lineup would be:

Valdes,

Alba, Pique, Puyol, Dani Alves,

Busquets, Xavi, Cesc,

Iniesta, Messi

Villa

Then there are some tweaks when there are injuries, you can put Mascherano in defence or midfield. Cesc can be a AMC and play without ST. Messi can be ST and Pedro/Alexis play.

But no matter the opponent, Barca will stick to their gameplan, play slow possesion football, with two central defenders staying back at all times, two very attacking wing backs, busquets as anchor man, xavi playmaker, paired with Cesc and then depending on formation and players available lets pretend Iniesta and Messi are AML and AMR, two inside forwards at most times, Messi set to attacking, Iniesta set to support. Then we have to decide if we should use a AMC (Cesc) or a ST (Villa, Alexis, Messi). For ease and no confusion lets take Villa.

Lets try to translate it into FM roles and duties and leave out philosophy (barca is control, attacking 95% of their games IMO).

Team instructions (if not mentioned, standard settings).

- Press more (barca is well know for their high re-pressure when having lost the ball)

- Shorter passing

- Roaming (I would like to set it for the offensive players, but lets leave it as standard though).

Roles and duties:

Valdes - Goalkeeper (D)

Dani Alves - Wingback (A)

Jordi Alba - Wingback (A)

Pique - BPD - (D)

Puyol - CD - (D)

Busquts - Anchor - (D)

Xavi - DLP - (S)

Cesc- CM - (A)

Iniesta - IF - (S)

Messi - IF - (A)

Villa - DLF - (S)

Shouts I would use; Run at defence, retain possesion, hassle opponents (maybe not overuse as the standard team instructions are already press more).

This would replicate pretty much how Barca play 90% of their home games and 75% of the away games.

However when setting this up in FM, they play like getafte, do not have the majority of possesion, do not create 10+ chances pr game, and certainly does not make an average of 3 goals pr game. Why is that - what is needed to replicate Barca, when you have arguebly the best players available. This is not a rant as such, but I try to understand the apparently major changes to this years FM, especially when you have a set of players superior to your opponents.

Let me hear your thougths.

I have a 'Barca like' team and set up like this, pretty much entirely using the TC, except I fiddles with a few player isntructions here and there if they didn't quite suit that player.

GK - Defend

DL - Wing Back/Attack.

DC - CD/Defend

DC - BDP/Defend

DR - Full Back/Support

DMC - Defensive Mid/Defend.

MCL - DLP/Support

MCR - APM/Attack

AML - IF/Support

AMR - IF/Attack.

FC- Treq/Attack.

Strategy - Counter.

Balanced

Press more

Shorter passing.

More roaming

More freedom

Shouts - Retain Possession, Push higher up, work ball into box, hassle opponents, stay on feet, pass into space.

Seems to work ok for me and my team isn't quite Barcelona standard yet as a lot of them aren't even 20 yet and my 'Messi' isn't quite Messi standard yet.

A few silly questions though:-

- Can you automatically apply shouts at the start of the game so they are 'always on'.

- Where is that team comparison page.

- If I add the 'run at opponents' shout to to the list will that contradict some of the others and will it result in defenders doing it?

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wwfan,

There is one thing that I completely don't understand in FM2013 - why my players constantly run towards opponent's byline, why inside forwards don't want to cut inside earlier, why fullbacks don't want to cross earlier, why even my support duty striker reachs byline and shots or pass from there? Is there any remedy?

Could be due to a number of factors.

If you have them set to RWB often or they have the PPM 'Runs with ball often' then the player's first choice will be to dribble past his man. If that's combined with an attacking mentality and a high tempo then it will probably happen pretty often. Try RWB mixed, or even rarely if the player has any PPMs that encourage him to past his man, so that the player's first choice isn't to go head first into his opponent.

Having your players set to cross ball often, from the byline and wide play set to hug touchline will also affect this.

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