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Match Engine Update 13.1.3 - quick overview. ME feedback here please.

PaulC

By PaulC,
in Football Manager General Discussion

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mexamoxa

mexamoxa

Posted
Posted
That's the kind of goal which makes this game IMO. Too many editions in the past haven't included that kind of error strewn incident. Ayala simply gets caught in posession, the ball spins in the air off the ricochet, and the attacker beats the keeper to the high ball. Beautiful, in many ways, as it encapsulates the human element of football.

Frustrating as hell when it happens to you of course, but you should appreciate that the ME can throw up situations like that. I'd hate it if that kind of thing was eradicated from the game.

what i meant was that an ERROR has to be seen as an ERROR by the ME. it wasn't, his rating kept high and finished as MOM, now, who in the world would be MOM after that mistake?!

that's what i meant, errors not being errors. if the ME said "terrible mistake by ayala" and his rating dropped, OK! but it didn't, it was NORMAL! well excuse me but that's anything but NORMAL!

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Herbert Fandel

Herbert Fandel

Posted
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man the point is that we pay for the game and the game it is not well built it
I think the game has flaws. I think that it is sufficiently enjoyable that I get my moneys worth. Depressingly, as it stands, only 2 months after release, I have received 12 hours of FM for every pound spent. Enjoyed most of them, as have the majority of people I feel. The game needs a lot of improvements, but I really don't see what your unbacked assertions are trying to prove
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MacZidane

MacZidane

Posted
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I spoke to a couple of guys at work today, both of whom are long time players of FM, and neither of whom have been anywhere near this forum. Talked at length about the game and what they thought of it. Both thought it was a bit more difficult than previous versions, both agreed FM Classic was a good move, but just not for them, and both have been thoroughly enjoying the game since it started.

Neither of them mentioned 'match engines' or 'patches' at any point throughout the discussion.

Forums like these are great, but I often feel they can also influence the way someone perceives the game. There'll be thousands of people up and down the country just like the two guys I spoke to today, who enjoy the game immensely without fretting about this or that being 'broken' because they've read about it a million times on the internet.

The game does still have a few flaws, SI are working on fixing them, but the game as it stands right now is still a highly playable, fantastic piece of software.

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MacZidane

MacZidane

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what i meant was that an ERROR has to be seen as an ERROR by the ME. it wasn't, his rating kept high and finished as MOM, now, who in the world would be MOM after that mistake?!

How do you know his rating wouldn't have been even higher but for that mistake? The way the game calculates the MOM is different than real life. It's obviously done using AI, ie no human input. The rest of the players' performance would have been enough to give him the rating he finished with, and if that's still higher than anyone else's, he ends up MOM. It's a basic calculation. In a real life scenario, no matter how well Ayala played, human beings would still have had the error at the forefront of their minds and perhaps given the player an unfair appraisal on the rest of his performance.

What I WOULD agree with you with in that situation is perhaps the commentary could have reflected the error like it does for other errors, mainly goalkeeping ones. Maybe that's something else that needs looked into, but as it stands, it's hardly gamebreaking.

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CityAndColour

CityAndColour

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If its happening regularly its an issue for sure. But it should happen every once in a while, no matter how frustrating.

I agree, but if the player is still getting MOTM and not being acknowledged as having made an error, then surely that would suggest a bug instead of an intended error?

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ArghBruce

ArghBruce

Posted
Posted

sorry friend. do you have the feeling that something is going wrong with FM2013.. what do you thing FM2012 was better or FM 2013??

in FM2013 choose every tactic you want all matches are like derby!! from the highest team of your league to the lowest!!!

i can't believe that you can't feel that!!

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Herbert Fandel

Herbert Fandel

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are you being serious? are you saying Buffon is somehow immune to falling over? If buffon does that every game, its a bug. If he does it ONCE in your save and in everyone elses, it is an unfortunate occurance just like those that can happen in football. Won't be hard to go through the top divisions of european football to find goalkeeper bloopers,

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Fancy Gaffot

Fancy Gaffot

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are you being serious? are you saying Buffon is somehow immune to falling over? If buffon does that every game, its a bug. If he does it ONCE in your save and in everyone elses, it is an unfortunate occurance just like those that can happen in football. Won't be hard to go through the top divisions of european football to find goalkeeper bloopers,
Are you being serious?
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OldSwanner

OldSwanner

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Posted
are you being serious? are you saying Buffon is somehow immune to falling over? If buffon does that every game, its a bug. If he does it ONCE in your save and in everyone elses, it is an unfortunate occurance just like those that can happen in football. Won't be hard to go through the top divisions of european football to find goalkeeper bloopers,

Lol, ok if it "won't be hard", how about you show us a video with something as unlikely as what's shown above .. no doubt Youtube has a fine collection of bloopers. Personally I think you'll struggle to find anything as crazy as the example posted, and that it is indeed a bug. I'm confident SI agree and will have it sorted in the next patch.

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apalaxe

apalaxe

Posted
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Please SI sort this out, it is an absolute disgrace that bug like this occurs, especially when this is GIANLUIGI BUFFON who we are speaking about, not some BSS goalkeeper.

I am just wondering what is he doing outside the box; are you playing him as Sweeper keeper and or is he trained for the role?

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mexamoxa

mexamoxa

Posted
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Incoming rant!

Ok, so i play this game since CM Italia! bought this one at launch, started a save and promptly got my bum handed back to me every single game! Hmm, this is a lot harder! I like it! (keep in mind i always play with commentary only and at max speed).

Went to the tactics forum of every FM forum I know! Lots of people were having success! So i read and i read and i learned a lot about stuff i didn't know nor comprehend. Did 2 more "testing" saves and decided to finally give it a nice go!!

Chose Nottingham Forest after some good heard stories on the forums. Got some good players in and I'm happy with my squad! After seing loads of people saying that it's a must watching the matches, i started doing just that, in comprehensive mode! I play 7 games in pre-season, all of them against "similar rep teams" and one against Liverpool! I win 3-1 vs L'pool and rape all the others 5-0, 6-0... 7 matches, 32 goals scored, 1 conceded! Creating 10+ goal chances every game and the team is playing beautifully!

Now, here comes the part of the ME i just don't get nor understand. I am now 15 games in the championship and i'm 8th. I should be 1st, I'm not kidding:

- EVERY game so far i have at least 10 shots! I create numerous occasions (as happened in pre-season) even when playing contain / defensive on tough away games. My total shot / goal % is 6%... did my strikers forget how to score since pre-season? I mean, I keep creating LOADS of chances. I probably should put the team-training back to fitness, they scored loads of goals in pre-season... (my strikers are on role training)

- the opposition NEVER had more than 5 shots against me in a match. unfortunately, their shot / goal % against me is 32% .....!

- i can't even imagine how many times i have hit the woodwork! EVERY game i hit the woodwork AT LEAST once! One time away to derby (!), sharp managed to hit the same post 3 times in a row (shot, rebound, rebound). it's just ridiculous the amount of times you hit the woodwork....

- 15 games in, 3 own goals against me, one in my favour. is this realistic?!

- and, because i now watch the matches, how many times are my full backs going to assist their forwards with throw ins?! i mean, they throw the ball DIRECTLY at them, not at a team mate who then gets tackled! how many times are they going to score from impossible angles?! their forwards / wingers run down the line, then into the box, shoot and cause total havoc! most of the times, they score from the mess. and when MY forwards happen to bug out like that, they shoot to the stands. also, can you please make my players stop giving free corners by heading the ball backwards when they are completely alone and have all the time in the world to control the ball?!

- I've also found that, when chasing a result, shouting "get ball forward", "run at defence", "pump ball into box" does nothing. My team keeps passing the ball around calmly (starting tactics) and when they do "pump" the ball they just shoot aimlessly to the stands behind the goal. Was that supposed to be a pass to the forwards? Ok...

Fix this ME FAST because we all love this game and payed for it!

Thank you for reading!

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Loversleaper

Loversleaper

Posted
Posted

A lot of the rants actually point out the flaws in the graphical side of FM, these things usually are easier to fix and not something I would categorize as something people should worry too much about. Graphics are not really the 'mechanism' that the ME is. What concerns me much more than anything else is the 'Strategy' reality, it seems to me that it isn't functioning the way I had in mind when I bought the game (and comparing it to the last several versions where strategies had some influence). That's why I feel that mexamoxa's post above more or less hits the real problem with the current ME. Defensive strategies seem to have had an incredible boost (which is what above poster is experiencing) and right now I find myself playing this strategy regardless of who I am playing. To me, it doesn't make total sense that I have to play more cautious/tight tactics with a team like Man U to get the best results...

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dgrgurov

dgrgurov

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I am just wondering what is he doing outside the box; are you playing him as Sweeper keeper and or is he trained for the role?

no he was coming to collect long ball out of his area as i was pressing for a winner.

are you being serious? are you saying Buffon is somehow immune to falling over? If buffon does that every game, its a bug. If he does it ONCE in your save and in everyone elses, it is an unfortunate occurance just like those that can happen in football. Won't be hard to go through the top divisions of european football to find goalkeeper bloopers,

well i think no human being with any sense of coordination cant wait for a ball to come to him under no pressure and then just collapse and let opponent score a goal, at least not one of the best goalkeepers in last 10 years. If you have ever seen such a thing in real life please give us the video or something so we can all see at, if not this is clearly a bug in the ME

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Herbert Fandel

Herbert Fandel

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no he was coming to collect long ball out of his area as i was pressing for a winner.

well i think no human being with any sense of coordination cant wait for a ball to come to him under no pressure and then just collapse and let opponent score a goal, at least not one of the best goalkeepers in last 10 years. If you have ever seen such a thing in real life please give us the video or something so we can all see at, if not this is clearly a bug in the ME

He is waiting for it to go back into the box so he can pick it up, then he slips. Even Buffon can slip

[video=youtube;KGX8Fppk82A]

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Äktsjon Männ

Äktsjon Männ

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Posted
well i think no human being with any sense of coordination cant wait for a ball to come to him under no pressure and then just collapse and let opponent score a goal, at least not one of the best goalkeepers in last 10 years. If you have ever seen such a thing in real life please give us the video or something so we can all see at, if not this is clearly a bug in the ME

Did he get credited with the mistake? I've seen pretty much the same thing twice in my game, both times from a back pass and the player making that back pass got a rating hit on both occasions. Smells like a bug to me as the game is not recognizing the GK's involvement.

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Sampa

Sampa

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Posted
are you being serious? are you saying Buffon is somehow immune to falling over? If buffon does that every game, its a bug. If he does it ONCE in your save and in everyone elses, it is an unfortunate occurance just like those that can happen in football. Won't be hard to go through the top divisions of european football to find goalkeeper bloopers,

Please stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

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I_Missed_Penalty

I_Missed_Penalty

Posted
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This ME is the poorest ever. The engine is riddled with so many bugs, that Iam starting to get a feeling that we are victims of a poor joke. Seriously guys, this is disgraceful. Constructive feedback up my .....ss! Iam pretty sure that the next update will just introduce new gamebreaking bugs instead of the current ones. Cant believe this game has been released more than month ago.

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Herbert Fandel

Herbert Fandel

Posted
Posted
Please stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

The only difference is that one slips and one doesnt. Like I said, if it happens once, it is a player error. If it happens all the time it is a bug. Millions of FM games are played, it barely happens
This, again, is the key point.

Agreed, and it is an area in which the ME seems to need improvement

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daylight

daylight

Posted
Posted
Please SI sort this out, it is an absolute disgrace that bug like this occurs, especially when this is GIANLUIGI BUFFON who we are speaking about, not some BSS goalkeeper.

I already posted something very much the same earlier in this thread and PaulC did indicate it was a bug.

[video=youtube;SnTy3ouO5qQ]

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Herbert Fandel

Herbert Fandel

Posted
Posted
I already posted something very much the same earlier in this thread and PaulC did indicate it was a bug.
Not very similar, one is a GK trying to shepherd the ball back into his box and failing, the other is a keeper trying to block a backpass with a diving knee save. Yours is a bug. His may well not be
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Blueflash

Blueflash

Posted
Posted
sorry friend. do you have the feeling that something is going wrong with FM2013.. what do you thing FM2012 was better or FM 2013??

in FM2013 choose every tactic you want all matches are like derby!! from the highest team of your league to the lowest!!!

i can't believe that you can't feel that!!

This is wrong. When your team gets acclimatized to your tactics and your team is good enough you will win matches. The main complaints are matches are just not fun to watch, we get no satoisfaction because one out of every two matches are ruined by some stupid bug.

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themadsheep2001

themadsheep2001

Posted
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I agree, but if the player is still getting MOTM and not being acknowledged as having made an error, then surely that would suggest a bug instead of an intended error?

If it's not credited as an error I would call it a bug either way in terms of that, or a genuine error not being reflected in a performance.

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dgrgurov

dgrgurov

Posted
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He is waiting for it to go back into the box so he can pick it up, then he slips. Even Buffon can slip

Yes but in video you suggested opposition attacker was pressuring the goalkeeper, in my game opposition attacker was about 30 metres from keeper when he fell, so he was under no pressure at all. And he didnt get any difference in rating when making that mistake, it was like this never happened, so this must surely be a bug

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MacZidane

MacZidane

Posted
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Please SI sort this out, it is an absolute disgrace that bug like this occurs, especially when this is GIANLUIGI BUFFON who we are speaking about, not some BSS goalkeeper.

I KNOW, IT'S A DISGRACE, HE NEVER MAKES MISTAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, wait...

[video=youtube;tb0jkQryQRA]

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dgrgurov

dgrgurov

Posted
Posted
I KNOW, IT'S A DISGRACE, HE NEVER MAKES MISTAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, wait...

[video=youtube;tb0jkQryQRA]

this mistake, which happens all across the globe, have absolutely no similarity with the mistake i mentioned, which can never happen, even in an u-13 league

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Jibby123

Jibby123

Posted
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this mistake, which happens all across the globe, have absolutely no similarity with the mistake i mentioned, which can never happen, even in an u-13 league

It's hardly a game breaker if it's not Sky Sports HD Gary Neville (spit) coverage. This I think, loversleaper talks sense.....

A lot of the rants actually point out the flaws in the graphical side of FM, these things usually are easier to fix and not something I would categorize as something people should worry too much about. Graphics are not really the 'mechanism' that the ME is. What concerns me much more than anything else is the 'Strategy' reality, it seems to me that it isn't functioning the way I had in mind when I bought the game (and comparing it to the last several versions where strategies had some influence). That's why I feel that mexamoxa's post above more or less hits the real problem with the current ME. Defensive strategies seem to have had an incredible boost (which is what above poster is experiencing) and right now I find myself playing this strategy regardless of who I am playing. To me, it doesn't make total sense that I have to play more cautious/tight tactics with a team like Man U to get the best results...
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Motherlover

Motherlover

Posted
Posted

I really like this ME. To me it feels as if the route to tactical success is more variable, it is tougher to master and there is far more nuance and give/take.

I enjoyed the 07-08 ME's but felt they were too easy to figure out and easily conquerable with physical powerhouses and burly target men. I didn't like the 09-12 ME's much at all, imo they were far too biased towards pacy, possession football.

This ME I've been partially successful with a number of different players and styles, but so far no style has stood out as overpowered. I'm used to massively overachieving with average squads. This year in all my saves I've been far more mediocre... which is exactly what I'd expect if it were real life.

Defensive strategies seem to have had an incredible boost (which is what above poster is experiencing) and right now I find myself playing this strategy regardless of who I am playing. To me, it doesn't make total sense that I have to play more cautious/tight tactics with a team like Man U to get the best results...

This is the opposite of my experience. I usually love playing defensive -or even-ultra defensive- football but unlike in previous FMs where I could score goals regardless of negative tactics, in this FM I find attackers get more easily isolated and it's more difficult for players to pick out runners covered by a number of opposition defenders. Where I would usually win 2-0, I've end up drawing 0-0. As a result I'm having to commit more players to creative and supporting roles.

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Herbert Fandel

Herbert Fandel

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This ME I've been partially successful with a number of different players and styles, but so far no style has stood out as overpowered. I'm used to massively overachieving with average squads. This year in all my saves I've been far more mediocre... which is exactly what I'd expect if it were real life.

This his how I feel too. It is so delightfully refreshing after years of FM ease-related boredom to get realistically mediocre results
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BiggusD

BiggusD

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Posted
This his how I feel too. It is so delightfully refreshing after years of FM ease-related boredom to get realistically mediocre results

I agree that so far many parts of the game appear better, and the game is more challenging now. The only thing I have problems with in terms of the ME, is that many AI teams abuse the lack of defending on through-balls from out wide. This makes defensive strategies overpowered, since even if they attack with only one player, he will always be a major threat even though you have three guys surrounding him. I think the new update will fix this, since the defenders react and turn quicker and I think that both positioning and passing has been tweaked.

It will be interesting to see if my current tactic get nerfed or boosted before Christmas.

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Motherlover

Motherlover

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Posted
This his how I feel too. It is so delightfully refreshing after years of FM ease-related boredom to get realistically mediocre results

Precisely :)

This may end up being my favourite-ever FM courtesy of the simple fact that I can't walk it. Every time I have a setback or two I save the game, shut it off and come back with new ideas and new approaches to turn things around. It makes the whole experience so much deeper and more rewarding.

The only thing I have problems with in terms of the ME, is that many AI teams abuse the lack of defending on through-balls from out wide.

Yes. It bothers me how rubbish DCs are at anticipating short through balls from wingers :-|

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