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Match Engine Update 13.1.3 - quick overview. ME feedback here please.

PaulC

By PaulC,
in Football Manager General Discussion

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Sharpy07

Sharpy07

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Posted

Looks like the new ME update when its released will improve situation with the High injury numbers that some people are getting, as they have tweaked the AI tackling. Good news!

Match v1319

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- More improvements to on ball decision making and pass choice

- Improved central midfielder starting position when team is in possession

- Tweaked midfielder and attacker positions when team is defending

- Fixed a couple of bugs causing players to fail to turn to face required direction properly

- Improved facing direction of player marking opponent who is moving onto a pass

- Fixed bug allowing players being able to partially "go through" other players to get ball without being penalised

- Small tweaks to improve the way players move onto passes or loose balls

- Reduced some instances of closing down of keeper when clearly illogical in context of player and his instructions

- Cleaned up a few bugs that delayed retrieval of ball at set pieces or kick offs

Match v1320

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- A bunch of ball physics fixes mainly related to collisions and ball spin after bounce

- Reduced slightly unrealistic ball to player deflections

- More improvements to pass choice AI

- Tweaks to run with ball and first touch AI

- Reduced tackles that end in own goals

- Some tweaks to basic central midfielder positions

- Fixed some dodgy marking at mid pitch free kicks

- Improved full back positioning when waiting for short keeper distribution

- Improved near and far post corner aim point

Match v1321

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- Some further ball physics fixes and refinements

- Fixed goal not always given if ball stops just over goal line

- Fixed some rare instances of player collision avoidance failing

- Further refinements to pass AI

- Improved pass, shot or header accuracy logic

- Further improvements to player reactions to the ball

- Fixed defences staying to deep just after corner taken

- Refined player positioning when defending free kicks from wide

- Made players press more collectively and aggressively when required

- Improved positioning of defenders against attackers running at pace

- Refined tackling AI a bit

- Improved facing direction while marking opponent around own area

- Fixed some more keeper AI bugs

Match v1322

-----------

- Improved collision avoidance AI slightly

- Fine tuned ball trajectory chosen by player for kick, header etc

- Fine tuned kick and header accuracy logic

- Fine tuned pass and general on ball AI

- Tuned long shot frequency and AI

- Toned down pressing slightly in certain situations

- Improved marking and engagement of ball player in wide areas

- Tuned tackling AI further

- Couple of small fixes to player reactions

- Fixed some small player pathing anomalies

- Fixed a couple of goalkeeper AI anomalies

So 1319-1322 are where we are with regards to the next update. I hope it sees the light of day pre Xmas but not finalised yet as much testing to be done!

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fmFutbolManager

fmFutbolManager

Posted
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Thank you for the update Paul. It looks like a lot of our concerns are catered for here. Very excited for the new release now.

Improved near and far post corner aim point - oh no :( I'm getting done by near post corners all the time. My defenders just leave the person attacking near post for them to score, it happens regularly. I guess more regularly now.

Also, no mention of fixing player decisions when heading the ball. At the moment, players will head the ball out when unopposed and in plenty of space to bring it down. Is this likely to be looked at before release?

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Herbert Fandel

Herbert Fandel

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I see I see. What would people recommend.. I start a save now and wait for the update as it will be save compatible or I just wait for the new update and then start my save? Unsure :eek:
The changes you see in that particular list, i.e. those related to the ME, will be save game compatible. It is possible there may be some other changes bundled in that are not, but I wouldn't expect so until after January.

I would start your save. It is possible you may find one tactic works well before the update and not so well after it, which may be frustrating, but all in all I would start.

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ReggaeBwoy

ReggaeBwoy

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The changes you see in that particular list, i.e. those related to the ME, will be save game compatible. It is possible there may be some other changes bundled in that are not, but I wouldn't expect so until after January.

I would start your save. It is possible you may find one tactic works well before the update and not so well after it, which may be frustrating, but all in all I would start.

Guess I will then :cool:

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Sharpy07

Sharpy07

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The changes you see in that particular list, i.e. those related to the ME, will be save game compatible. It is possible there may be some other changes bundled in that are not, but I wouldn't expect so until after January.

I would start your save. It is possible you may find one tactic works well before the update and not so well after it, which may be frustrating, but all in all I would start.

I think that this update will contain alot of Non-ME updates aswell. It's usual that they realise a large update before Christmas.

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Herbert Fandel

Herbert Fandel

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The one before christmas (if that's the case) will be an ME one, with a large update including data updates on January.. or at least that's the norm.
Yeh but Sharpy is partly right, it could include bug-fixes and other things. I agree it is highly unlikely to have a DB update though, even though the italian tax thing sounds like a disaster.
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daylight

daylight

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The ME doesn't know the difference between human and AI! Whilst I believe your frustration may be genuine, I fear it is based off of a selective memory...

I posted this in another thread but thought I would post it here also.

This is the own goal I was referring to earlier in this thread,whilst I agree some players may have selective memories when it comes to things going their way in a game I have never had anything like this going my way ;)

Also I will point out I did win the game but it is a bit crap having to watch things like this happen time and again,while this is maybe the extreme it is by no way just a 1 off either.

Great news about the patch again Paul,hopefully it make the highlights much more enjoyable to watch :)

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Sharpy07

Sharpy07

Posted
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The one before christmas (if that's the case) will be an ME one, with a large update including data updates on January.. or at least that's the norm.

They usually (going from previous years) realise a large update b4 Christmas which includes ME and Non-ME Updates, and then release another large update including again ME and Non-ME updates but include and DB update after the Jan Transfer Window.

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Herbert Fandel

Herbert Fandel

Posted
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This is the own goal I was referring to earlier in this thread,whilst I agree some players may have selective memories when it comes to things going their way in a game I have never had anything like this going my way ;)
That may be so, but that doesn't change that the ME doesn't know the difference.

You say you have never had it go in your favour, which may well be true, rather than selective memory in your case, so I apologise if my implication was inaccurate.

But how many times have you conceded from it? Once? Twice? Remember your games form a limited test group. Given that the ME doesn't know the difference, across all players and across all time it will even out. Because, The ME doesn't know the difference.

(P.s. I don't know this myself from the coding, but SI staff have said it SO many times over such a prolonged spell of time that it surely must be the case)

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daylight

daylight

Posted
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To be honest it bothers me when it goes for me and against me,it is pretty much the point I have been trying to make since the game released.

I find there are far far to many errors from players in the ME,I get lots of own goals both for and against,I get defenders and keepers making big errors in every other match,again both for and against.

Of course there should be errors as there are in real matches but not to this extreme and also not so many big errors that lead to goals,I have had to stop playing as if I see any keeper running to the sideline and kicking it 40+yards to the opposition and for them to score an open goal 1 more time I think my head will smash the keyboard.

I see in the patch notes that they have reduced own goals from tackling so that is a good start right away.

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Herbert Fandel

Herbert Fandel

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whats the italian tax thing?
I think despite fixing the English cumulative tax thing they have still left Italian employers tax set too high in the Database. The english one was fixed because it wasn't a db issue, whereas the italian one went unfixed. I haven't had it myself, but remember it clearly because I once told someone with an italian save that their financial issues were realistic, to then be proven to be entirely wrong.
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Keyzer Soze

Keyzer Soze

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The over-use of slide tackles leading in own-goals? I personally only noticed it being excessive since the recent patch, but I suppose it is a subjective consideration

Tend to agree with Herbet.

I think this came out in the last patch, probably because the improvement of tacking and closing down.

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apalaxe

apalaxe

Posted
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Tend to agree with Herbet.

I think this came out in the last patch, probably because the improvement of tacking and closing down.

This is definitely something that started with the patch, before the CB would not get any close to the ball in the are leaving too much space for the opposition, and now it's just overkill, often they interfere with the keeper too and are more dangerous than the attacker himself.

This the reason why a play with one CB as CD-Cover-Zonal to sweep those balls in front of the goal out the field to the flanks.

I would play with a sweeper if i had a good one in the team. :)

As a side note, most changes i make in the tactics are to improve or correct the default behaviour of the players/ME.

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isignedupfornorealreason

isignedupfornorealreason

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Saw a bizarre one this morning, Rooney got the ball no more than a yard in front of the goal line, open goal etc... Then he decided to cross it. O_O Oh my rage...

I'm experimenting with a 4-4-2, 4-3-3 and a weird 4-2-2-1-1 (Deep lying DMF). I'm thinking of canning the DMF formation because again, DMF's are still too far back along the line of the defenders. It's not as bad as it originally was but they need to push up a bit more so they're in the gap between CM and DC. In frustration to fix this I went a bit silly and did a 4-2-3-1 with the DM's moving to CM and the wingers pushing to AML/R.

Here's the problem I found; the AML/R and AMC all sat in line with the FC. It left reams of space available between the AM and MC slot (if I persisted with DM's instead you end up with like 2/3rds of the pitch completely void of your players). Now, I'm not saying this was a viable tactic, that wasn't what I was examining, I was looking at the playing line for the positions. What I noticed was the AM players were fixed in line with the striker for a reason, that reason being the opposition pushed their line up. So the further forward their defence went, the further back my striker dropped to stay onside.

My suggestion is this should be tweaked. The moment the opposition defence line pushes forward, then your offensive line should 'drop back', so the AM's will all drop back a touch to compensate for being 'squashed'. What this would do is two things.

1) It would stop the AM/FC getting in line all the time.

2) It would sort out the reams of space that gets left open. It might actually make a wide DM/AM formation a distinct possibility but, I'll admit I'm not interested in making that type of formation work because I don't think it suits my style. I do feel there should be big gaps available and it should be easier in theory for the opposition to exploit the space but as it stands the space is WAY too much at the moment, perhaps this could be tweaked. I'd be impressed if the team have a look and could say if this is W.A.D or if it's something they've not thought of before.

And finally in relation to 2, perhaps this is the issue with the DM/DC. I know 13 advocates a deep defensive line (I don't and I like to think of myself as ok defensively, I don't generally concede much anyway) but perhaps the issue is the DM and DC dynamics haven't been fitted correctly. For example, as your DC line pushes up the DM's stack and stay where they are instead of working WITH the DC to push forward and get out a bit more... I've sadly lost my line of thought now but I figure there needs to be a slight tweak to get the DM's to stop falling in line with the DCs too often...

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valdis43

valdis43

Posted
Posted

I've played some time as Bromley in BSS. My team plays a West Ham direct style, or its supposed to anyway. Heavy emphasis on heading, crossing, anticipation, etc in the stats. I have been doing very well so far, 3rd in BSS this season, but when I looked at some of the analysis I found:

Goal type (scored/allowed)

Placed shot 38/42

Powerful shot 4/5

Curled shot 1/0 (in BSS, no surprise there)

Lob 1/0 (ditto)

Header 1/2

Free kick 1/1

Penalty 2/3

This seems horribly wrong. Looking at my assist stats I see 37/30 passes and 4/14 crosses. So apparently my defenders, with good heading, anticipation, strength, jumping and height cannot defend crosses. Which is not surprising, because almost all the goals are not scored with headers. In a little over 2 seasons, I can count the number of headed crosses going in on one hand. Less than a hand.

In short, at the BSS level, heading the ball seems way too weak as a means of attack and having fast players running onto crosses seems to work far, far better than relying on strength.

As for injuries, I've noticed a pattern. It is not my tactics that are causing injuries. What I've noticed is that I'll frequently get a spike in them. Its either a result of my opponent's tactics or the weather I think (cause I haven't made significant changes in tactics since the first season). And unfortunately, it seems the majority of the injuries are on strikers, or midfielders that run into the final 3rd.

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themadsheep2001

themadsheep2001

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Thank you for the update Paul. It looks like a lot of our concerns are catered for here. Very excited for the new release now.

Improved near and far post corner aim point - oh no :( I'm getting done by near post corners all the time. My defenders just leave the person attacking near post for them to score, it happens regularly. I guess more regularly now.

Also, no mention of fixing player decisions when heading the ball. At the moment, players will head the ball out when unopposed and in plenty of space to bring it down. Is this likely to be looked at before release?

Suspect it will fall under these:

- Fine tuned ball trajectory chosen by player for kick, header etc

- Fine tuned kick and header accuracy logic

- Improved pass, shot or header accuracy logic

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Vålerenga

Vålerenga

Posted
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I've found a solution for the people who has problems with the new ME. Just turn on commentary and you won't see the bizarre goals, horrible defense and braindead goalkeepers. You have to be aware of the texts tho.

I actually enjoy FM13 now, because I can't see the flaws of the ME.

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Alekos

Alekos

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Mr.Paul is there a chance there will be a little tweak on total shots made since we got from many to few?As I remember it has been mentioned that because of the improved defending the shots were decreased..

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Welshace

Welshace

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Mr.Paul is there a chance there will be a little tweak on total shots made since we got from many to few?As I remember it has been mentioned that because of the improved defending the shots were decreased..

the combination of all the fixes will address the attacking and shots issues I'm sure.

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jedimanutd

jedimanutd

Posted
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the stoppage time is too exact, once it hits i.e 92. 00 the whistle blows!!!!! ARRRGHHH sometimes its frustrating when u are building up an attack, EPL referees tend to let the team build finish an attack before blowing the whistle too! hope SI can give the benefit of the time 'doubt' aka Fergie's time

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44Phoenix

44Phoenix

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I hope the defending crosses fix is actually useful, as right now it is unplayable really. It's the keeper I find the problem with, as even if the ball is crossed to the back post along the floor, within the six yard box, the keeper will be rooted to the goal-line and not even attempt to cut out the cross. This inevitably leads to a back post tap in as the full back will not be marking the player.

Will not be playing again until the patch.

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Romanista.

Romanista.

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Posted
I hope the defending crosses fix is actually useful, as right now it is unplayable really. It's the keeper I find the problem with, as even if the ball is crossed to the back post along the floor, within the six yard box, the keeper will be rooted to the goal-line and not even attempt to cut out the cross. This inevitably leads to a back post tap in as the full back will not be marking the player.

Will not be playing again until the patch.

the problem is a combination of poor defending from the fullbacks and GK. what ive noticed is, when the winger beats the fullback for pace, the fullback is too slow to get back or even put a foot in to block the cross( never happens) and the winger has all the time in the world to send a cross, the crosses can sometimes be easily intercepted by the GK, but they never come out of their goal. GKs coming out is poor throughout and not only in this case.

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mhaffy

mhaffy

Posted
Posted

Apologies if this has been posted before.

Have seen quite a few examples of a player, with good pace, being put through centrally just in opponents half and leaving chasers in his wake with only goalkeeper to beat and...........he decides to dribble towards corner flag and cross?

Just unlucky or possible bug?

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Welshace

Welshace

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I also can't find any mention of this issue being addressed.

More improvements to on ball decision making and pass choice

Fixed a couple of bugs causing players to fail to turn to face required direction properly

Further improvements to player reactions to the ball

Fine tuned ball trajectory chosen by player for kick, header etc

Couple of small fixes to player reactions

I imagine some of the above would address it ...

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44Phoenix

44Phoenix

Posted
Posted
the problem is a combination of poor defending from the fullbacks and GK. what ive noticed is, when the winger beats the fullback for pace, the fullback is too slow to get back or even put a foot in to block the cross( never happens) and the winger has all the time in the world to send a cross, the crosses can sometimes be easily intercepted by the GK, but they never come out of their goal. GKs coming out is poor throughout and not only in this case.

Yeah, I only mention the GK as I had a cross come in from on the byline, which went straight across the 1 yard line, which my keeper rooted on the line just ignored.

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MacZidane

MacZidane

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Posted

I hope these patches don't fully eradicate player mistakes in the game. Was playing my Coventry save last night and a long high ball from the back was completely misjudged by the Brentford goalkeeper who dropped it on the edge of the box, right at the foot of my striker, who proceeded to balloon the ball over the bar, when it was easier to score. After the initial 'head in the hands' moment, my only real concern about that happening in-game was that patches would remove this. I loved the fact something like that could happen.

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Welshace

Welshace

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Yeah i've had a few of those moments too...

my keeper comes out out his box chasing a loose ball, thumps it upfield only for it to be controlled down by the opposition player and shot at goal from within his own half...

agonizing couple of seconds as the ball arches and dips straight onto the crossbar and out .... andddd breathheee

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Keyzer Soze

Keyzer Soze

Posted
Posted
I hope these patches don't fully eradicate player mistakes in the game. Was playing my Coventry save last night and a long high ball from the back was completely misjudged by the Brentford goalkeeper who dropped it on the edge of the box, right at the foot of my striker, who proceeded to balloon the ball over the bar, when it was easier to score. After the initial 'head in the hands' moment, my only real concern about that happening in-game was that patches would remove this. I loved the fact something like that could happen.

Dont worry... i'm sure there will always be moments to pull your hair out in FM! :)

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Osmium

Osmium

Posted
Posted

I remember some senior SI people claiming this year patches can be released regularly (as they are being developed) that was how we got the quick patch after the beta. If that is true then why cant we get these patches out more frequently, ive been waiting over a month to play a decent version of this game.

Below is the most recent of many reasons this game needs patching ASAP. I hadn't played for a few weeks hoping it had been patched, loaded it up today only to be greeted with the same bugs. What makes it worse is the game doesn't recognize this as an error.

[video=youtube;1OeRgMSulr0]

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