Match Engine Update 13.1.3 - quick overview. ME feedback here please.

[Welshace]

I did Arkon... because all feedback is to be kept in the 2 threads given and I decided to move it rather than just close your thread.. because it's christmas

If everyone had their own threads we'd have a 1000 threads a day saying the same things.

[Arkon]

Welshace

This is not feedback, these are problems that need attention, that's why I posted them in the Bugs forum.

Can you please therefor put my post in the correct forum where people from the FM Testing Team and other users can voice their opinions.

Thank you

FAO FM Testing Team!

[Welshace]

The bugs forum is for specific issues that you have noticed that you can pinpoint and upload pkm's for the SI team to see,

What you have there is a long list of suggested changes that in your opinion need looking at... it's feedback on the game and belongs here.

But feel free to raise specific issues you may have with detail in the relevant bugs section. Pink kits not included.

[daylight]

Sounds like feedback to me

I decided to move it rather than just close your thread.. because it's christmas

It's like a giant hug

[IMFC]

For the first time in more than 10 years (12 or 13), I'm so disapointed by this opus. the "new" tactic thing, is so bad, and not fun anymore.

I don't care as many players, using 15 minutes to play a single game.

For the first time of my life, i went back to an old version.

SI tried too hard to make the game realistic, three-quarters of people do not care if it's 100% realistic, it's a game, not a simulation, the game has lost all its entertainment.

That's just my feed back, and yes I know you guys from SI are gonna tell me I'm wrong and how to play. But I've played + 10 years my way, and I enjoyed it, not anymore.

[Ackter]

People surely know that the "new" tactic thing is "just" a bunch of pre-grouped slider settings, right? Same with the shouts.

All it is is a much easier to understand user interface for the sliders, one that allows you to create much more balanced tactics in much less time, while doing so in footballing terms.

[dogs]

Now, I must say that except for these and a few other issues the ME is easily the best of any football game (Including FIFA Manager) available, so lets keep it that way, after all the ME is the heart of the game and if it fails to convince then whole thing falls apart

opinions are like noses everyone has one. I also have bought and played computer games for the last 20 yrs and play over all different formats. My opinion is this ME is easily the worst of the more recent FM games. The whole product imo looks rushed and released to appease an annual sales market. An unfinished product that SI will patch and patch.

Two many goals look identical, for example in this ME i can recognise moves and passing moves that lead to goals they look identical. Player don't tackle, don't intercept passes in fact its like watching pinball. Goals i score or the Ai scores look unrealistic. I go into tactics screen 1-0 down say and come back off after say 10 secs and i see that im 3-0 down. I go in at half time in one game 1-0 down i restart the second half 2-0 down. Players even with passing options close by avail and with limited creative freedom and passing set to short and NTBS marked still try outrageous passes across field or down the sideline. Every ai pass is pin point accurate and the ball is guaranteed to land on the head or at the feet of the only ai striker in the box even if surrounded by defenders. I'm sorry SI but this ME is just frustrating. It feels that no input or tactic employed by the human manager has any impact. i feel its just a random result. I don't think i have ever been as disillusioned with a FM game for a long time. To me if feels as if the ME is struggling to show the attributes or mechanics correctly. For example world class ball winning midfielder tackling 20 anticipation 20 say in a smooth ME would tackle and win the ball off say a decent midfielder who has the ball and is moving. In this ME the player pauses with the ball in the one spot spinning round until the world class midfielder walks up to him and takes the ball. Its hard to describe but the ME imo is sloppy looking

[MacZidane]

SI tried too hard to make the game realistic, three-quarters of people do not care if it's 100% realistic, it's a game, not a simulation, the game has lost all its entertainment.

Actually, a simulation is exactly what it is. If you want to play something that's just a 'game', there's plenty of alternatives.

Incidentally, how do you arrive at the figure of 'three quarters' that don't care if it's realistic? If anything, looking at this thread alone and the minute, unimportant stuff people moan about, I'd argue that just about everyone DEMANDS it's 100% realistic!

[MacZidane]

I go into tactics screen 1-0 down say and come back off after say 10 secs and i see that im 3-0 down. I go in at half time in one game 1-0 down i restart the second half 2-0 down.

Why lie about things like that? That clearly NEVER happens.

[Ackter]

Why lie about things like that? That clearly NEVER happens.

Yes it does.

Match divergence has been know to happen a few times.

If you have a PKM of the match dogs, please post about it in the bugs forum to see if SI can work out what's going on with it.

[MacZidane]

Yes it does.

Match divergence has been know to happen a few times.

I'd have thought the forum would have been flooded with complaints if that happened. That's a pretty game-bursting bug. Surely something as fundamental as the score changing would be noticed and fixed miles before release? If not, poor show I have to say, and I'm one of the more positive people about the new game.

[Ackter]

It's an incredibly rare occurrence, as in there's only been a relative handful of instances of it in years, and it's proven nearly impossible to recreate.

If it can't be recreated, it becomes much harder to fix.

[slipknot67]

It's an incredibly rare occurrence, as in there's only been a relative handful of instances of it in years, and it's proven nearly impossible to recreate.

If it can't be recreated, it becomes much harder to fix.

Surprised to hear this is so rare and difficult to pin down, it's happened to me at least once in every version going back to around 09, haven't noticed it in 13 yet mind you.

[Ackter]

So it happened to you once per version, with how many matches played in each?

[milnerpoint]

Ive had it once in all the years of playing, and it happened to turn out in my favour.

[Arkon]

The bugs forum is for specific issues that you have noticed that you can pinpoint and upload pkm's for the SI team to see,

Hi Welshace,

Thanks for your reply,

Well, I do not mind what you call it (Bugs/feedback or whatever.) All I am trying to do is get a positive response from the FM Testing Team.

As for the PKM's, If the FM Testing Team are not aware of these problems then I can only say that I am shocked.

These are not rare subtleties that are hard to spot, they occur in almost all the matches and anybody who plays the game will already be aware of them. It is just a case as to whether they are desirable or not.

What you have there is a long list of suggested changes that in your opinion need looking at...

The long list must make it easier and more efficient if anything rather than having 10 different post scattered all over the place.

But feel free to raise specific issues you may have with detail in the relevant bugs section. Pink kits not included.

Thanks, it might be the best thing in the end...

These issues are important to those who play the game and we need to know that the improvements in the ME will be forthcoming in the future.

Regards

Arkon

[brmaverick]

My feedback after a full season and couple games of pre season the next year...

1. This ME overall is fantastic. Since the latest update I am really enjoying it and the game feels great.

2. Injuries are weird. In the first month or two of my first season, injuries were out of control. After that, they seemed pretty normal for the rest of the season. Now, early in my second season injuries are out of control again. Not sure if this is an anomaly that has been raised but it's very weird.

3. CB's are still way too slow to react to through balls played behind them. They continue to trot backwards until the ball is about level with them, then they start this weird side step until the defender is past them... At that point they finally turn around to start running like they should have from the start. I find that speedy strikers are able to blow past my very talented CB's a bit too easily in this game and I'm not playing with a real high line.

4. My last gripe is the bad angle shots my wingers continue to take right along the goal line when there are options in front. I expect it to happen occasionally, but it's far too frequent currently. They'll sprint along the goal line until they're on top of the keeper before trying a ridiculous shot.

That's it. Overall very positive and enjoying more than the last couple of FM's. Great work SI!

[Keyzer Soze]

My feedback after a full season and couple games of pre season the next year...

1. This ME overall is fantastic. Since the latest update I am really enjoying it and the game feels great.

2. Injuries are weird. In the first month or two of my first season, injuries were out of control. After that, they seemed pretty normal for the rest of the season. Now, early in my second season injuries are out of control again. Not sure if this is an anomaly that has been raised but it's very weird.

3. CB's are still way too slow to react to through balls played behind them. They continue to trot backwards until the ball is about level with them, then they start this weird side step until the defender is past them... At that point they finally turn around to start running like they should have from the start. I find that speedy strikers are able to blow past my very talented CB's a bit too easily in this game and I'm not playing with a real high line.

4. My last gripe is the bad angle shots my wingers continue to take right along the goal line when there are options in front. I expect it to happen occasionally, but it's far too frequent currently. They'll sprint along the goal line until they're on top of the keeper before trying a ridiculous shot.

That's it. Overall very positive and enjoying more than the last couple of FM's. Great work SI!

Congratulations!

You just describe, in a perfect way, the biggest issue in this ME. Well done!

[Foxridge71]

My feedback after a full season and couple games of pre season the next year...

1. This ME overall is fantastic. Since the latest update I am really enjoying it and the game feels great.

2. Injuries are weird. In the first month or two of my first season, injuries were out of control. After that, they seemed pretty normal for the rest of the season. Now, early in my second season injuries are out of control again. Not sure if this is an anomaly that has been raised but it's very weird.

3. CB's are still way too slow to react to through balls played behind them. They continue to trot backwards until the ball is about level with them, then they start this weird side step until the defender is past them... At that point they finally turn around to start running like they should have from the start. I find that speedy strikers are able to blow past my very talented CB's a bit too easily in this game and I'm not playing with a real high line.

4. My last gripe is the bad angle shots my wingers continue to take right along the goal line when there are options in front. I expect it to happen occasionally, but it's far too frequent currently. They'll sprint along the goal line until they're on top of the keeper before trying a ridiculous shot.

That's it. Overall very positive and enjoying more than the last couple of FM's. Great work SI!

This post makes me think the match engine simply can't be save game compatible and that I must be missing something here.

I know it's all about opinions, but I just find it hard to believe that anyone can honestly be happy with the match engine in it's current state.

For me, the match engine is definitely the worst it has ever been. It simply doesn't give you any insight whatsoever as whether your tactics work or not.

[dooro23]

Backpedaling defenders ruin a big part of the game for me atm. I just holiday through match days, so I don't have to endure them.

[Keyzer Soze]

That is not true.

Tactics with a narrow width and a deeper D-line work very well.... perhaps because then can cope better with that through that brmaverick was talking about.

[baros2011]

As I've said before, this years game is simply not the same or as enjoyable as previous incarnations. The match engine feels random. I've read reams of stuff in the tactics forum, I've read lots of stuff from wwfan and Cleon, and I appreciate their help but even at that I dont think I should have to read this stuff so as just to not lose every game with a big club like Liverpool for example (cue jokes).

Even the odd time I go on a good run and get into a save, theres that random element to the ME, the susceptibility to crosses, the slow to turn centre backs, the lack of shots, and even if you put in a nice solid performance against a good team, it happens far too often that your keeper will let you down with a simple back pass. I just cannot get into this game. I hope a new patch is imminent. Anyone any idea when it could be?

[dooro23]

That is not true.

Tactics with a narrow width and a deeper D-line work very well.... perhaps because then can cope better with that through that brmaverick was talking about.

That's not what I meant, adjusting to freak bugs of the ME is easy, it's just much less fun and breaks the immersion when those silly things happen on a regular basis.

[CityAndColour]

Congratulations!

You just describe, in a perfect way, the biggest issue in this ME. Well done!

Has been in multiple versions now.

Remember when the 3D first came out, and one of the biggest issues from release was keepers getting assists? This was a combination of long goal kicks and defenders doing the little run on the spot/run backwards/stutter that allowed the attacker to get a head start. There's been a variation of this in every match engine since.

I can't remember a version of the 3D where defenders have reacted to play with the same speed and thought as attackers do.

[jdrawmer]

Couple of things I've noticed recently are:

* lots of backpasses that don't just miss the goalkeeper but literally fly out of play by a mile

* Goalkeepers throws to the defenders look more like bullets flying at them.

* Goalkeepers seem to kick the ball first time on the volley back up the field when receiving a back-pass

* Defenders seem to often take an age to turn round and chase a through ball / track the man (might just be my lower league football, but looks silly at times)

No major issues - nothing that makes me want to turn it off, but noticeable all the same. Overall I think it's fantastic. Responsive to changes made, great visual feedback as to how the teams are playing and how they are setup without having to spend ages on analysis. Nice flowing football

[scott MUFC]

my Keeper always passes to LB from backpasses, especially on overload :/

[nonleague]

The 85 min goal that never was. Look at the linesman, right in line with it. Oh yes, that hasn't crossed the line has it now

[video=youtube;bZ8uZQDzk-k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ8uZQDzk-k&feature=plcp

[wez007]

The 85 min goal that never was. Look at the linesman, right in line with it. Oh yes, that hasn't crossed the line has it now

Lmao, i spat my coffee out after seeing this clip

[hluraven]

Ball crossing the line or not decisions being got wrong is definitely realistic, how about the Ukraine goal v England not given with the 5th official about 2 metres away and not giving it?

That said, if you feel it is a bug have you uploaded it in the bugs forum?

[Ackter]

The 85 min goal that never was. Look at the linesman, right in line with it. Oh yes, that hasn't crossed the line has it now

[video=youtube;bZ8uZQDzk-k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ8uZQDzk-k&feature=plcp

[video=youtube;U-8dOjeVC80]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-8dOjeVC80

[CityAndColour]

I think he wrote "Look at the linesman, right in line with it." as a pre-meditated response to the inevitable Roy Carroll video.

[Ackter]

Yes, and I think it's a completely cosmetic animation bug.

[CityAndColour]

Ditto. Same as the ball that looks like it's in the net but is actually a corner, or the keeper taking the ball outside his box.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Ball crossing the line or not decisions being got wrong is definitely realistic, how about the Ukraine goal v England not given with the 5th official about 2 metres away and not giving it?

That said, if you feel it is a bug have you uploaded it in the bugs forum?

It's a bug in FM as there isn't any code to sim ref mistakes. Same with any sort of wrong decisions, if an offside is incorrectly given/not given for instance then it's a bug as well. In the above example the display doesn't match the ME code as the ball isn't over the line according to it (something to do with the gk animation I believe).

That said, I'd take things like this on the chin because intentional or not in the game, this is something that does indeed happen in reality more regularly than we'd like it to.

[Ackter]

Yeah there is. Ref mistakes have been in the game for about 5 years.

[milnerpoint]

It's a bug in FM as there isn't any code to sim ref mistakes. Same with any sort of wrong decisions, if an offside is incorrectly given/not given for instance then it's a bug as well. In the above example the display doesn't match the ME code as the ball isn't over the line according to it (something to do with the gk animation I believe).

That said, I'd take things like this on the chin because intentional or not in the game, this is something that does indeed happen in reality more regularly than we'd like it to.

Yes there are, have been for a while now.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Yeah there is. Ref mistakes have been in the game for about 5 years.

I've played all of those last 5 games and I haven't seen a single wrongly given offside decision that isn't an obvious bug. So I'm rather sceptical about any intentional code existing for this.

[Ackter]

You can be as sceptical as you want, it's in there.

[Jibby123]

Aktsjon, you can see whether the ref made a big mistake because the game tells you in the screenie immediately after the game where it shows key men, MoM etc. i.e "Referee mr X will have some explaining to do when it appeared...." or something similar.

Then you know whether it's safe to gob off to the FA, because they will be silent on your criticism if the ref made a mistake.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Aktsjon, you can see whether the ref made a big mistake because the game tells you in the screenie immediately after the game where it shows key men, MoM etc.

Then you know whether it's safe to gob off to the FA, because they will be silent on your criticism if the ref made a mistake.

This only deals with penalties and such. These things exist yeah, but this is not something you can visually determine from watching the match. I'm on about things like offsides and balls being out of bounds i.e things where you can see the ref/linesman calling it wrong from the match view.

[Jibby123]

This only deals with penalties and such. These things exist yeah, but this is not something you can visually determine from watching the match. I'm on about things like offsides and balls being out of bounds i.e things where you can see the ref/linesman calling it wrong from the match view.

Fair point...

[Äktsjon Männ]

You can be as sceptical as you want, it's in there.

As I said I've yet to see it despite playing over 100 seasons across those 5 games where it supposedly happens.

[milnerpoint]

This only deals with penalties and such. These things exist yeah, but this is not something you can visually determine from watching the match. I'm on about things like offsides and balls being out of bounds i.e things where you can see the ref/linesman calling it wrong from the match view.

Ive seen plenty of offside mistakes, even ones where its a TV game and it shows you the lines used to calculate the offside. They are definitely in the game, have been for a long time. I havent seen a mistake for a ball over or not over the line in a goal sense tho.

[CityAndColour]

The clue as to whether to appeal or not is in the incident commentary. If you see something like "Team X will feel they had a good chance for a penalty there", you can roast the ref and not get in trouble. It'll say similar for an incorrect red, along the lines of "Team X will feel that's a harsh red card there".

[themadsheep2001]

As an aside to both posts above by Milnerpoint and CityAndColour: why is it that your assistant manager never sees it? Small issue that drives me up the wall.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Ive seen plenty of offside mistakes, even ones where its a TV game and it shows you the lines used to calculate the offside.

yeah and I've gone through the trouble of watching these things frame by frame and it's always been a case of the line being drawn incorrectly i.e before or after the pass being made. So yeah, maybe it does happen, not in my game(s) though

[nonleague]

Yes, and I think it's a completely cosmetic animation bug.

Already uploaded it earlier to the bugs forum. Added some screen shots in 2d view so you can see that the ball does cross the line.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/335677-13.1.3-Ball-clearly-over-the-line-and-yet-ruled-as-a-save!

Edit: David Siddall games tester has confirmed that it's a known issue and they're already working on a solution.

So it was not an animation glitch

[hluraven]

Already uploaded it earlier to the bugs forum. Added some screen shots in 2d view so you can see that the ball does cross the line.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/335677-13.1.3-Ball-clearly-over-the-line-and-yet-ruled-as-a-save!

Edit: David Siddall games tester has confirmed that it's a known issue and they're already working on a solution.

So it was not an animation glitch

Errr, he said that it was a known issue - but meaning the animation being different to what the ME said - so animation glitch! Still a bug, but not in the way you are saying.

[nonleague]

Errr, he said that it was a known issue - but meaning the animation being different to what the ME said - so animation glitch! Still a bug, but not in the way you are saying.

So yes, the ball did cross the line graphically although this was not supposed to happen. So it's a bug that makes you think you have scored when you actually have not. I'm with you.

[hluraven]

So yes, the ball did cross the line graphically although this was not supposed to happen. So it's a bug that makes you think you have scored when you actually have not. I'm with you.

Agreed. It is either that the animation shows something that didn't happen or that the ME thinks there was a valid goal but failed to award it. I am fairly sure it is the first one, but either way, it needs to be fixed and great to see the examples posted in the right place.