Match Engine Update 13.1.3 - quick overview. ME feedback here please.

[Loversleaper]

As far as I can remember (FM-wise!), this is the first ME where the Defensive Strategy is strongest for all scenarios. I have been getting fantastic results playing this Strategy exclusively (tried with other strategies exclusively in other saves but they fall someway short, generally). I've been using a Defensive Line setting of (5) which is quit deep and Closing Down setting around the middle of the bar for most players (except CB's, of course) and it seems to me that I simply dominate games most of the time (especially at home). I was kind of hoping that I could play a game where I would be able to mess around with the different strategies in conjunction with different scenarios - but with the present reality I keep falling back to what reacts best in the present ME (which is actually somewhat short of my personal footballing philosophy).

Tried with top, middle and low media prediction teams. It's not exactly a magic wand, but it is hard not to overachieve...

[jujigatame]

As far as I can remember (FM-wise!), this is the first ME where the Defensive Strategy is strongest for all scenarios. I have been getting fantastic results playing this Strategy exclusively (tried with other strategies exclusively in other saves but they fall someway short, generally). I've been using a Defensive Line setting of (5) which is quit deep and Closing Down setting around the middle of the bar for most players (except CB's, of course) and it seems to me that I simply dominate games most of the time (especially at home). I was kind of hoping that I could play a game where I would be able to mess around with the different strategies in conjunction with different scenarios - but with the present reality I keep falling back to what reacts best in the present ME (which is actually somewhat short of my personal footballing philosophy).

Tried with top, middle and low media prediction teams. It's not exactly a magic wand, but it is hard not to overachieve...

Interesting. I remember one of the only times I ever switched to "defensive" mentality, it was because I went down to 10 men and wanted to hang on to a 1-goal lead. I ended up banging in 3 more goals in 20 minutes. I think they tried to address this in the last patch but there still may be something that makes highly conservative tactics overpowered.

[Shakes]

Can you please explain to me why this cannot be done? It hardly seems fair that I receive an update that I did not want, and that I have no choice in the matter. I don't want to spend hours reading through threads. I want to be given back the game I was enjoying and that I paid for.

You have a choice. In steam right click on Football Manager 2013, choose properties, then click on the updates tab. The default is to update automatically, if you don't want that you can turn it off there. Unfortunately if you want to go back to a previous update, you'll have to have a backup of the game before you applied the update, like with most products there's no reverse patch procedure.

[KingJason13]

Every SINGLE time, no exageration, that the opp gets the ball near my corner flag to cross they score. Doesn't matter if I change my Opp. Tactics to close down. mark, WHATEVER! They are unstoppable.

95% of the time I have a cross I get a miss, or save, or hit the woodwork... with the "that should have been a goal" comment popping up!!! ..Hmmm, You don't say.

I'll have 10 shots on target, 20+ shots overall... 4 of those 10 are right at the Opp Gk... 3 hit the woodwork... and 3 are closer to the corner flag!?

The opp. get 3 shots, 2 on target, and score twice!? ALMOST EVERY ♥♥♥♥ING GAME!?

My average passing ability is 16... the Opp. average passing ability is 10... but my guys can't make a 5 yard pass, while the Opp. play tiki taka against me.

My Assistant Manager tells me I should close down an Opp. Winger more often because he's putting dangerous crosses into the box... so, I do... but my FB will track the winger for a bit... and then STOP, dead in his tracks, letting the Opp. Winger get 20 yards free space!?!? ..Then said Opp. Winger, with a crossing ability of 10, will roll a slow low cross from the left corner flag accross the entire 18 yard box, through the legs of 3 defenders, who stand and watch it slowly roll by... all the way over to the Opp. Fwd totally open on the far side of the box, whom I had set to mark tightly ALWAYS, who will then nail it into the top corner, from an extremely acute angle... all with the finishing and composure of a ♥♥♥♥ing pre-schooler. !?!?!

My average finishing for my Fwds is 18... Opp. average finishing is 12...

GUESS WHAT? TACTICS DON'T MATTER!

[MacZidane]

Nothing like a bit of wild exaggeration there, eh?

EDIT - But I'd love to see the 'slow low cross' from the corner flag hurtling through three defenders legs. You'll have uploaded it in the bugs forum by now, yeah? I'm just away to check...

[Hurball]

I've played FM year in year out since 2000/2001, and was really looking forward to this year's incarnation. I've never signed up to these forums or posted before this year, such is the frustration I'm experiencing.

Yes, I'm not the greatest manager out there, but I don't expect to win everything. I had an awesome game last year managing Wigan and only buying Scottish and Latin American players (in keeping with Wigan's apparent real life transfer policy), struggling to keep them in the league initially before slowly creeping up the table to 8th or something unremarkable.

This year, even when I win I feel annoyed. The ME throws up so many bizarre and stupid things. I cannot defend crosses. I tried building a team from the back, with solid defenders, but they all forget how to defend as soon as the ball is crossed in, usually to the far post, where it is usually volleyed home emphatically by an unmarked player.

I've nicked results in this game by uber-route-1 goals, one punt upfield which my lone striker heads in at the 6 yard box, but seen the computer do likewise a few games later. Near post corners are a surefire way to score. Any rebound in the box, too, will fall to a striker despite being outnumbered 10/1 by defenders, and he'll hammer it home. Players stand still with the ball at their feet for minutes on end, before a tackle eventually comes in and a goal is created.

I just feel peripheral to the game. My tactics seem irrelevant to the result. I'll get hammered in a game (all from crosses), quit out in anger, replay it a few days later, and get an uneventful 0-0 using exactly the same players and roles.

What summed things up was a game away at PSG (I'm Evian TG, a relegation candidate). I went ultra defensive. In the first ten minutes my lone striker was played in twice by awesome through balls and scored two goals. PSG then created nothing until just before half time, when a hoofed ball forward was headed straight in at the 6 yard box. Then in the last minute of the entire game they scored a cross to the back post that nobody bothered to defend to make it 2-2. I didn't even care, the game just seemed too absurd to take seriously.

And most of the time I can't even see the ball in 3D mode, it's that small. At least have an option to make it bigger...

I hate being this harsh, but this is the first FM ever that I've felt is unplayable and unrealistic at the best of times. I keep attempting to continue my game only to see cross after cross hammered home by theoretically terrible strikeforces amongst other bizarre events, and end up frustrated every single time. At the moment, I just hope the next patch is a beauty.

(And I need to stress that I don't care about winning every game. Right now I'm scraping results through stupid goals myself, and they're not enjoyable in the slightest)

[MacZidane]

What summed things up was a game away at PSG (I'm Evian TG, a relegation candidate). I went ultra defensive. In the first ten minutes my lone striker was played in twice by awesome through balls and scored two goals. PSG then created nothing until just before half time, when a hoofed ball forward was headed straight in at the 6 yard box. Then in the last minute of the entire game they scored a cross to the back post that nobody bothered to defend to make it 2-2. I didn't even care, the game just seemed too absurd to take seriously.

)

It's a shame you're not enjoying it, but can I ask what is so 'absurd' about the above scenario? Team plays defensive, but goes two up, attacking team comes back to draw 2-2. Maybe it's me, but what on earth is remotely 'absurd' about that?

[KingJason13]

Nothing like a bit of wild exaggeration there, eh?

EDIT - But I'd love to see the 'slow low cross' from the corner flag hurtling through three defenders legs. You'll have uploaded it in the bugs forum by now, yeah? I'm just away to check...

Zero exaggeration. Seriously. If I knew how to make it a video I'd gladly have uploaded it.

[MacZidane]

Zero exaggeration. Seriously. If I knew how to make it a video I'd gladly have uploaded it.

Go to the game in question, and when it's loaded up, there's an upload highlights button. Click on that, and simply choose the goal. It'll upload automatically to YouTube, provided you have an account with them. Couldn't be simpler.

[Hurball]

It's a shame you're not enjoying it, but can I ask what is so 'absurd' about the above scenario? Team plays defensive, but goes two up, attacking team comes back to draw 2-2. Maybe it's me, but what on earth is remotely 'absurd' about that?

Not the result exactly, just the game itself panned out in a bizarre way. Not one of the goals seemed realistic. Yes, rubbish teams can take the lead in those games, but despite me sitting back all game PSG created nothing save for two ME error goals (super punt and back post volley). I should've been angry, but I was beyond caring.

[MacZidane]

A long ball headed in, and a player free in the box volleying in from close range don't sound like 'ME error goals'. I'd need to see them of course, but your description sounds like goals that happen regularly.

[Hurball]

A long ball headed in, and a player free in the box volleying in from close range don't sound like 'ME error goals'. I'd need to see them of course, but your description sounds like goals that happen regularly.

I tried an upload but got an error uploading message. The second goal is a low cross from Ibrahimovic from out at the touchline, in line with the edge of the area. It travels 40+ yards between the goalkeeper and the defence without anyone trying to intercept it, before being tucked away at the back post by an unmarked Pastore, with my full back facing the wrong way and the centre backs not even near the 6 yard box...

The first goal actually wasn't a hoof (there've been a few of those in other games, where the ball is hit 50-60 yards into orbit before coming down at the 6 yard box and being headed in, unchallenged from the defence or goalkeeper). The first goal saw my anchor man stand on the ball dithering for 30 in-game seconds and doing literally nothing before being tackled and the ball going straight to Ibra to score. That's actually worse than I'd remembered...!

Edit:

Reading through this thead and it seems a huge number of players are having issues defending crosses, especially ones to the back post. Surely this shows something is wrong in the ME. No matter what I try I concede simple goals at the back post due to a lack of marking or players simply not going for the ball to block or intercept it.

By that PSG game I was conceding cross after cross every game, so when they equalised in the last minute from a cross...

[Ryhilldexter]

[video=youtube;-kSq4IwRtmM]

Maybe hard to see but in the match, when I watched the replay of the goal it was a really good example of the keeper 'rushing' out and doing nothing.

[scott MUFC]

what does unsportsmalike conduct mean, my player just got booked for it, saw no fould, and he scored but it didn't count because of it?

[Welshace]

what does unsportsmalike conduct mean, my player just got booked for it, saw no fould, and he scored but it didn't count because of it?

In the game.. it's usually a dive..

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Did he score with his hand?

Is "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" the American version of "Unsporting Behaviour"? A search in google reveals loads of American Football links, whereas "Unsporting Behaviour", which is the term used in FIFA's rules, turns up Football (yes Google, football) references.

Here is one off the top: http://soccer.soccerhelp.com/tag/soccer-unsporting-behavior/

[CityAndColour]

Will normally say it's handball in the game though. Unsportsmanlike conduct usually flashes up when the player dives.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Will normally say it's handball in the game though. Unsportsmanlike conduct usually flashes up when the player dives.

Maybe he scored with a diving header.

[teodoro]

Don't count on it.

To play FM13 successfully you have to read this manual here (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/332584-A-Twelve-Step-Guide-towards-Playing-FM13-amp-Understanding-the-ME) made by a moderator, not a SI-developer. (he may be one, who knows)

FM13 is a completely new game. Adapt to the crap they have made, or play earlier versions, such as FM12. I have given up on FM13 and made peace with my decision.

It would be really weird if i have to read the notes of a moderator to play effectively FM 2013.

I refuse to believe it and to do it.

No shortcuts for me...

Instead i expect that all the critical issues will be officially addressed and soon.

I read somewhere that a patch should be out by Christmas.

I hope that this happens.

I also expect the new engine will be discussed extensively with suggestions and tips.

A new and complete OFFICIAL game manual that explains well the new ME.

Otherwise, i'l go back to play fm2012 without too much trouble.

[milnerpoint]

I also expect the new engine will be discussed extensively with suggestions and tips.

A new and complete OFFICIAL game manual that explains well the new ME.

Otherwise, i'l go back to play fm2012 without too much trouble.

I'd save yourself the wait for nothing, there will not be a new official game manual any time soon, not that explains the ME.

Wwfan has made a thread to help those who are struggling to develop a stable tactic, its not a guide for playing the game, its not a set or rules that every single person must follow, its just a list of good suggestions and ideas, its up to you if you want to follow them. Its not a shortcut, its just advice, very good advice at that.

[Ackter]

Please get this thread back to providing feedback.

Anyone posting to troll, or just provoke a reaction, from now on will be infracted.

[MacZidane]

@MacZidane You criticise others, but so far all I can see is you trolling and reading your drivel I have yet to see anything constuctive at all.

I've already given my feedback and opinions of the game, both on this thread and others. I don't feel the need to come rushing onto here with a video every time I lose a goal in the game, slavering wildly about how broken the game is because an opposition forward had the sheer temerity to outpace my two central defenders, or *shudders* I lose a goal from a cross ball.

However, if something is posted I wish to pass comment on, I will do so. That's how a forum works. If you don't like what you read, do what all the other fey liberals have done, and put me on ignore.

Now, enough of the personal attacks please (the last of which I'd expect you to receive an infraction for), and get back to discussing the game, as that is what this thread is for.

[tts0]

I don't know if it's my delusion or what, but there has been time that i really enjoyed the game and then suddenly it got broken. I was playing the demo version for a while and it really sucked for the first week or so, then the game was updated and started looking fine. After few weeks the newest patch came out and the demo version seemed even better, so I bought the full version... and the funny things started! The ME looks nothing like the demo version's one and I don't know why? I have the newest udpade instaled, but this game seems like nothing changed since the release! Was it my delusion that i thougt the demo version looks good and you just did NOTHING to fix this ME or something else is wrong?

[smokeymcpot49]

It's interesting to read other people suffering from their team not being able to defend crosses.

I'm playing as Luton in the BSP and I'd guesstimate at least 50% of my goals conceded in the league are from crosses. As described above, it usually involves a cross to the back post with an opposition player completely unmarked and a defender actually moving away from the open player.

The inability of fullbacks to deal with wingers is also very frustrating. I have yet to see a full back even block a cross.

[MacZidane]

The inability of fullbacks to deal with wingers is also very frustrating. I have yet to see a full back even block a cross.

In fairness, if it's a key highlight, it's probably not going to show a winger blocking a cross. I'd be interested to hear any testimonies from people who watch the full games to see if many crosses are blocked by fullbacks.

[Herbert Fandel]

In fairness, if it's a key highlight, it's probably not going to show a winger blocking a cross. I'd be interested to hear any testimonies from people who watch the full games to see if many crosses are blocked by fullbacks.

I agree with your logic with regard to blocked crosses not being highlights MacZidane, but I do think there are too many crosses to magically unmarked players at the back post, and the highlight settings have no effect on this

[wez007]

I had an issue with crosses but instead of saying it was impossible to stop I had a sit down to look at all the goals and analyse the faults. I CUT OUT the supply so the wingers didnt even have a chance to recv the ball, let alone put a cross in. Dont get me wrong they still get crosses in and they do score from them but thats expected when im playing a narrow 4222 box (narrowst formation possible?!).

Gets a bit boring people saying its a bug or cant be stopped, if its not happening to everyone then surely its not a common bug? Food for thought...

[Foxridge71]

I have found the game much more enjoyable since switching to 2D over the past few days.

It's much easier to interpret what is happening on the pitch and I will be playing like this until the 3D match engine is fixed.

There is no real way of working out where things are going wrong in 3D mode, simply because the animations aren't representing what is happening in the underlying engine properly.

The ball rolling too quickly and too far also doesn't seem as apparent in 2D mode either, so the match experience is far more enjoyable at the moment.

Hopefully the 3D representation of the match engine will undergo a big overhaul for the next patch and it will be something to enjoy once again. I look forward to an 'Ice hockey free' playing experience.

Just my thoughts anyway.

[apalaxe]

In fairness, if it's a key highlight, it's probably not going to show a winger blocking a cross. I'd be interested to hear any testimonies from people who watch the full games to see if many crosses are blocked by fullbacks.

I watch full games. When i play against a team with 1 ST and 2 Wingers i set the FB to Specific mark the opposing winger and 1 CD the ST; when the winger manages to cross and the other winger is in the far post waiting my FB is there to mark.

I dont worry too much with Blocking the cross as i do to make sure that no one can get to them

[wez007]

I have found the game much more enjoyable since switching to 2D over the past few days.

It's much easier to interpret what is happening on the pitch and I will be playing like this until the 3D match engine is fixed.

There is no real way of working out where things are going wrong in 3D mode, simply because the animations aren't representing what is happening in the underlying engine properly.

The ball rolling too quickly and too far also doesn't seem as apparent in 2D mode either, so the match experience is far more enjoyable at the moment.

Hopefully the 3D representation of the match engine will undergo a big overhaul for the next patch and it will be something to enjoy once again. I look forward to an 'Ice hockey free' playing experience.

Just my thoughts anyway.

Exactly what I do . In fact ive NVER used the 3d view as 2d to me proves to be more of an advantage from a tactical pov

[apalaxe]

I had an issue with crosses but instead of saying it was impossible to stop I had a sit down to look at all the goals and analyse the faults. I CUT OUT the supply so the wingers didnt even have a chance to recv the ball, let alone put a cross in. Dont get me wrong they still get crosses in and they do score from them but thats expected when im playing a narrow 4222 box (narrowst formation possible?!).

Gets a bit boring people saying its a bug or cant be stopped, if its not happening to everyone then surely its not a common bug? Food for thought...

No sure if a bug but yes the CD faces the direction of the ball and if too high to head just let it go. When a Winger is waiting in the far post its a sure goal.

Because of that behavior i set my FB to specific man mark the opposing winger, i think that by default they are set to zonal.

[BiggusD]

I had an issue with crosses but instead of saying it was impossible to stop I had a sit down to look at all the goals and analyse the faults. I CUT OUT the supply so the wingers didnt even have a chance to recv the ball, let alone put a cross in. Dont get me wrong they still get crosses in and they do score from them but thats expected when im playing a narrow 4222 box (narrowst formation possible?!).

Gets a bit boring people saying its a bug or cant be stopped, if its not happening to everyone then surely its not a common bug? Food for thought...

I stopped it completely with a 3-3-3-1 tactic (FL, DC, FR, WBL, DMC, WBR, ML, MC, MR, SC). Didn't create any chances, though, allthough I made it during a match while furious and haven't touched it since. So yes of course it can be stopped.

[wez007]

No sure if a bug but yes the CD faces the direction of the ball and if too high to head just let it go. When a Winger is waiting in the far post its a sure goal.

Because of that behavior i set my FB to specific man mark the opposing winger, i think that by default they are set to zonal.

You give the suckers space they will crucify you hence why ive recently moved my FB's to WB's. As soon as that winger has even a sniff of a ball my WB or one of my DM's are onto them. I also cut off the line from the OPP FB to winger by having my CM's roam out to wings to block the FB with an easy ball cuasing them to panic anc go route one where my tall DC's tend to mop up.

Not a perfect formula (and certianly not a perfect ME) but its cut out that issue tenfold. No longer do i have an urge to put my fist through my laptop

[wez007]

How is 4 at the back the narrowest possible? I almost always go three at the back, and have been known to go 2-2-2-2-2 when feeling adventerous

Ok, i mean from the back up

[bieritarier]

Right, been playing for 5 and a half seasons now, around 4 of which on the latest ME. Got a great great team at my disposal and am winning my fair share of matches. Still not entriely happy.

I think all of the points have been mentioned one way or another, so this might actually just be to stress what I feel.

What's great:

- seeing different types of attacks, depending on your tactical setup you see more posession based vs. quickly get forward styles.

- for the most part, shouts really make a visible difference (on FM12 i could not tell whether they had an effect or not, probably because the playing styles looked pretty much the same).

- I like the collision detection, but....

- ... the collision detection seems to have a fair share of flaws or at least the animations showing collisions seem weird. the "forward runing" or "running away from ball" many people (me included) see seem to be tied to battles between players going on that one player wins (for whatever reason) leading to the other guy just seemingly stopping or running the wrong way. It's a theory but so far the only explanation I found that doesn't make me want to eat my keyboard every time it happens.

- crossing.... it just does not work the way it should. regardless of the cross to setting a winger or full back will almost exclusively pick the opposite side winger as cross target. Especially annoying when you have your Sriker and AMC waiting in the middle of the box to try and get to the end of a low cross across the 6 yard box but instead the cross is aimed at the winder trailing in from the edge of the area with 6-8 defenders between him and the ball. Just yesterday played a match on full details to see my AMR cross it towards the AML at the edge of the pen box rather than pounding it inside where 3 players were lurking in good positions and no defender cuting off that option, cross got cut off and headed clear, my MC played it back to the DL, who played it back to the AMR, who ran to the baseline again (in each case to the point where the penalty box and baseline meet) and tried to put it all the way back to the edge of the penalty box on the other side where my 170 cm AML was standing. Cut off, rinse and repeat the above before the ball was finally cleared. Needless to say this happened with "dril crosses" selected. Btw, this has been an issue at least since FM 11, probably even 10.

- passing accuracy.. way way way too low for short passes, which is mainly due to bad pass selection. IRL top level temas have over 80 or even 90% pass completion over a season (bayer munich is at around 92, or was last time I checked). In the game the highest with the new patch I ever had was just below 90 for a single game. The average is around 82. And that is on defensive or counter strategy. In spite of that I generally have around 65-70 % posession sicne the opponents usually hover around the 60% pass completion rate since all they do is hoof the ball forward trying to play their lone striker clean through on goal.

- passing accuracy. The funny thing is that passes where the player receives the ball and has time to pick out a good pass quite often land right at the oppoenets feet (or beyone the touchline). It completely turns around when AI teams go attacking (I have not been able to repolicate it but that's certainly a tactics issue). All of a sudden the team that before falling behind could not string 3 passes together despite me standing off strings 20, 25 one touch passes together despite my guys being set to hassle them. Well, my guys don't really press them aggressively (another AI speciality I can't replicate) but the accuracy the AI team now plays with is making barca look like a bunch of noobs.

- general setups. I have far far far more success playing defensive strategy compared to control. I am a lot tighter at the back (sort of expecting that) but I also score a lot more goals. and some of them are actually looking like nice football. Control? my AM strata will join the striker at the edge of the 18 yard box and mostly stand there, being marked out of the game and leave my MCs take stupid long shots. or run out of options and wait to get tackled. Generally, the more attacking I play the less ground my team covers, whichI believe highlights the problems. once the ball passes through a certain point on the pitch attacking players just become static. Generally with a control strategy my Striker covers aound 8-8.5 km per match (faaaaaaaar to low!) while will a defensive strategy he will coer around 9.5-10 (still too low, but better).

- distance covered /90 minutes. In about 4 out of five matches I see both teams covering just around 100 km per match. In the bundesliga, bayern munich is about the laziest team in the league at around 112 per match, with the workhorse teams going for 119 to 120 per 90 minutes). Granted,if you control posession you'Re not running as much, but play in general is too static (especially strikers and centre backs)

- cross defense. Unless you set a second player to man mark the opposition winge ror full back, the full back will always be left to deal with the opposing winger/full back alone while the central players generally stay in the middle and fall back into the box and the AMs, while now better at tracking back than they were before, stop to care around 10 yards ahead of the penalty box. IRL, you almost always have a central player come over to help the full back or at least stay in close proximity to cover if the full back gets beaten. Neither the AI nor my team do this. Along with full backs generally being crap at disposessing wingers or challenging crosses this is the main reasons why so many crosses are being pumped into the box. and the reason why good teams seemt to struggle a lot when playing through the middle sinc ethe wide players don't really stretch the D. when they have the ball out wide (meaning they can't opt to then play a quick pass back to the MC/AMCto play in the striker - it is too crowded). Solving this might get rid of a few of the balancing issues the game has where defensive tactics are ultra efficient. Fix crossing and with the current setup you'll see good teams bang in 5-10 a game. Then fix defending crosses and you'll see a much better variety in goals since space will become available somewhere else.

I did not post these in thebugs forum, since even when I use the term fix I'm not sure whether some of it was intended to balance out the results. This is really the challenge with all of this. I think SI knows about quite a few of the shortcomings of the ME but it sems to me like some don'T get fixed since fixing it will cause a) either too many goals being scored (without countering with a ton of silly misses), or too few goals being scored (unless long shot accuracy/finishing is tuned to ridiculous efficienty). And we all know what happens if IRL theres 2.4 goals per match ind in FM it's either 2.2 or 2.6...

[scott MUFC]

trying to work out why when a team plays 4 Defenders 2 DM and ML and MR, why I create little chances? they have parked the bus so if anything there should be more shots on target then 3 :/

[apalaxe]

You give the suckers space they will crucify you hence why ive recently moved my FB's to WB's. As soon as that winger has even a sniff of a ball my WB or one of my DM's are onto them. I also cut off the line from the OPP FB to winger by having my CM's roam out to wings to block the FB with an easy ball cuasing them to panic anc go route one where my tall DC's tend to mop up.

Not a perfect formula (and certianly not a perfect ME) but its cut out that issue tenfold. No longer do i have an urge to put my fist through my laptop

I noticed that the wingers don't simply run with the ball even if they have the space, crossing from the goal line is not a priority and they will look for early crossings or for the striker (reason why i don't play formations with wingers anymore).

In other words, if given the space they will stop at 25 or 30 yards and look for unmarked player to pass, only if pressed and left no other option they will run up and cross. This behavior i noticed since the patch.

[Ackter]

trying to work out why when a team plays 4 Defenders 2 DM and ML and MR, why I create little chances? they have parked the bus so if anything there should be more shots on target then 3 :/

Erm, huh?

If they've parked the bus it becomes much harder to get a shot on goal, let alone a shot on target.

[Herbert Fandel]

Erm, huh?

If they've parked the bus it becomes much harder to get a shot on goal, let alone a shot on target.

This isn't always the case IRL. Teams parking the bus often allows the attacking team to advance high up the pitch, and have a lot of possession just outside the box, where they can in theory have many shots on goal.

However, if you were to rephrase to 'it becomes much harder to get a MEANINGFUL shot on goal', then I would agree fully.

Therefore I agree with you that scottMUFC's complaints are not entirely justified

[jujigatame]

I am starting to sympathize with SI even though the ME could still use improvement. The problem is that they're dealing with conflicting criticisms:

1) Fullbacks are defensively poor, center backs don't defend through balls, keepers behavior can be erratic, etc

2) Not enough shots on goal and goal-scoring opportunities in general

[milnerpoint]

I think thats what this build misses most, is the hopeful shots from distance. I've only seen 3 goalkeepers win POM in games i have been involved in, in 2 seasons now and its purely because teams dont really attempt hopefully attempts at the goal that often, and unsuprisingly the games where they have, there has been a lot of speculative efforts, or bad finishing.

[Herbert Fandel]

I am starting to sympathize with SI even though the ME could still use improvement. The problem is that they're dealing with conflicting criticisms:

1) Fullbacks are defensively poor, center backs don't defend through balls, keepers behavior can be erratic, etc

2) Not enough shots on goal and goal-scoring opportunities in general

AKA - everyone sees the faults that their tactics have set them up to suffer.

I agree the ME needs work, and I am grateful that SI listen to their fans, but opening up your feedback system to the great unwashed has its risks!

[Sussex Hammer]

Must confess defending is very difficult to get right. Thought I had cracked it when I went 6 Premier League games with only one goal conceded. Then went 3-3 v Liverpool, 3-3- with Man Utd and then before I could work out what was happening I found myself 5-0 down against QPR after 35 minutes!!!

Up until then I didn't really have any issues with opposition crosses that so many had mentioned, but ALL the goals aforementioned were either balls through the middle for Hernandez or Cisse to run onto (and I don't play a high line) or crosses where the centre forward runs between the centre backs and wins free headers. Most odd since before that my centre backs were doing really well.

Frustrations being that in one game full backs will slide tackle dangerous wingers and my DCM will cover beautifully in front of the back four and yet in the next game the same players will seem to forget totally how to play football, so my main concern is a total apparent lack of tactical consistency which makes working out if you have got something right very difficult.

[pazmacats2]

my feedback: the game seems to determine how well team A with settings "A1" play against team B with settings "B1".

I watched about 50 games IN FULL (in 2D) and what I see is largely the same in every match. There is no way to tell what's wrong with your tactics because it seems like CCC and goals are picked from a "pool" of situations. 80% of the matches seem like filler. Individual and team settings DO have an influence on the outcome of matches. However, it is next to impossible to figure out what went wrong or right by looking at the ME representation.

As a result the ME feedback is something like this:

Your team is having a good day AND/OR your Tactic is working:

A) successful closing down all over the pitch (regardless of your defense line and closing down settings)

B) Fluent short AND long passing, successful crosses, shots are on target (regardless of tempo/passing length and any settings)

Your team is having a bad day AND/OR your tactic is not working:

A) wingers play crosses in spite of being double or triple man marked, hollywood balls and deadly through balls regardless of pressing or d-line instructions

B) many mistakes when passing the ball, no crosses or terrible crosses (regardless of tempo/passing length and any other settings)

Basically when watching the game, I will see if my tactic (on the whole) is working well or not. It's a much better idea to watch the player stats. The ME main function seems to be for making promotional videos.

[apalaxe]

my feedback: the game seems to determine how well team A with settings "A1" play against team B with settings "B1".

I watched about 50 games IN FULL (in 2D) and what I see is largely the same in every match. There is no way to tell what's wrong with your tactics because it seems like CCC and goals are picked from a "pool" of situations. 80% of the matches seem like filler. Individual and team settings DO have an influence on the outcome of matches. However, it is next to impossible to figure out what went wrong or right by looking at the ME representation.

As a result the ME feedback is something like this:

Your team is having a good day AND/OR your Tactic is working:

A) successful closing down all over the pitch (regardless of your defense line and closing down settings)

B) Fluent short AND long passing, successful crosses, shots are on target (regardless of tempo/passing length and any settings)

Your team is having a bad day AND/OR your tactic is not working:

A) wingers play crosses in spite of being double or triple man marked, hollywood balls and deadly through balls regardless of pressing or d-line instructions

B) many mistakes when passing the ball, no crosses or terrible crosses (regardless of tempo/passing length and any other settings)

Basically when watching the game, I will see if my tactic (on the whole) is working well or not. It's a much better idea to watch the player stats. The ME main function seems to be for making promotional videos.

I agree that if a player is having a bad day it can become a problem, example a CM losing balls causing fast counter, CD cannot keep up and keeper has no chance.

But i prefer to see it with my own eyes than rely on statistics or ratings.

[Kriss]

Basically when watching the game, I will see if my tactic (on the whole) is working well or not. It's a much better idea to watch the player stats. The ME main function seems to be for making promotional videos.

Nail on the head, I use stats to determine what happened, the ME is screen candy to me (2D is useful for some analysis)

[goblinshark]

You'll need to stop complaining here & sound it off @ the Bugs Forum. Then the SI team can work @ it

[Arkon]

Just my little list of some things that need to be corrected - these are all fairly obvious errors and anyone who has watched the current ME (PC: 334797) will be aware of them...

1) The delays after dead ball situations (corners/throw-ins/free kicks etc) when waiting for the ball to be returned from the crowd and then sometimes waiting whilst a player goes to pick the ball up some distance away while the teams trudge to their next position. A simple fade out and fade in would suffice.

2) Shooting and direct free kicks are very poor and often misdirect wildly (not sure if this is to do with the players abilities as I am playing in the Championship in England, even so it would still be completely unreal.) But I am getting about a 90% off-target ratio. This roughly equates to how many shots are required to get 1 goal not get one shot on target!

3) Time wasting by keepers/players at throw-ins/free kicks etc is overdone by about 50% - I noticed that the ref may add on time for this but its still too annoying. Although its meant to be a bit of realism its been overused, in a real match the referee would just warn and then book the player concerned.

4) Players control of the ball is too perfect whatever their stats. You would think that the way they control a 60yd pass whilst in full flight that they were all Lionel Messi's.

5) Crossing and corner kicks are some times far too strong, overshooting the players by 30yds or more (one bounce into touch - very unreal!)

6) Teams should have a natural reaction to being behind with time running out - I know there are some adjustments that can be made but they should increase the tempo as would happen in a real match.

7) After a shot at goal the players keep running in the direction of the goal for too long - needs adjusting (they are not trying to goal poach.)

8) The colour of the ball (yellow) should be changed when playing on the yellowish/green pitch as its very hard to follow. Simple skin changed to white should suffice (10 minute job)

9) Wingers sometimes run 50 yds or so along the touch line with a defender running parallel with him. The defender almost never seems to put a tackle in although in a good position to do so. The winger just reaches he bye-line and crosses! Also wingers should come inside more often.

10) Oh yes, that pink outfit is a bit Mickey Mouse isn't it? - this is not American football is it?

Now, I must say that except for these and a few other issues the ME is easily the best of any football game (Including FIFA Manager) available, so lets keep it that way, after all the ME is the heart of the game and if it fails to convince then whole thing falls apart.

Hope to see these fixed before the next patch

Arkon

(57 years watching football and 20 years playing computer football games)

[David Siddall]

Moving to feedback thread

[Arkon]

David

Why have you moved my post here?

Have you not any comments to make?