Match Engine Update 13.1.3 - quick overview. ME feedback here please.

[wez007]

Is there any chance at all, people could stop using this thread for an argument on who likes the ME and who doesnt, as ive said before its clearly got flaws, but lets have some actual feedback and discussion regarding that please...

If you cant post something constructive, DONT POST!!!

Amen to that. Sick of haters vs non haters rows, really boring now

[Herbert Fandel]

All the people not playing might say it is barely playble.

If it is perfectly playble as you claim, why SI is preparing another patch for the ME?

To make the ME even better perhaps. No one is stating the ME is a finished article. Next to that, the definition of a finished article is as subjective as subjective can be. If some of the people who are completely and utterly against the ME would have their wishes fullfilled we would be left with a match engine in which mistakes do not exist. Super galactic football seems to be what some of the people around here want.

I would bitch at SI if they'd create an ME that lets players with perfect stats always play perfect. Perfect stats to me only means there is a larger likelyhood that he will be consistent in performing his duties, not that he can not do weird things.

Imho SI have managed to get most of that stability already. My DC's perform consistent and do what they are told to do for a very large part of the match. My midfielders support and assist and score and my attackers are brilliant.

And yes on occasion I would love to kick some of them in the nuts for doing insane stuff.

Good response, I don't think I could have managed it without swearing. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the ME, there is absolutely no logic in saying it shouldn't be worked on, or that them working on it is evidence of it being sub-standard. No. Logic.

[fmFutbolManager]

You have to laugh, you really do because if you don't you'll go crazy. So close to just canning this game. I know threats are useless because one player down is of no bother to SI, but this is stupid. When will a patch be coming out? I cannot take much more of this. YET AGAIN another game where the opposition score as my keeper just runs at the attacker and stands up tall rather than trying to save the ball. Two of their goals to put Cagliari 3-1 up my keeper just as well not be there. The fourth goal, for them to equalise in the 93rd minute after I'd clawed back to 4-3 was--you guessed it--a sliding tackle from behind to score an own goal.

Please, for the love of all things holy, sort this out SI. It is so damn frustrating fighting against these battles. It seems I'm managing against the ME half the time, rather than the opposition in front of me. Please, what is my keeper doing for the first two goals? Why is he just running to the ball and doing nothing? And you already know about the sliding tackle own goal bug. I hope you fix this one. And please don't tell me this isn't a bug because it is. It happens all the time. IRL you do not get half as many own goals, let alone sliding tackles from behind in the box conceding own goals.

I'm Parma (in white). I'm the manager, crying on the sidelines.

[video=youtube;VFE46Nx2jWY]

Thanks,

Fed up FM player of 20 years.

[Welshace]

Genuinely don't see the huge issue with all those goals besides the slide tackle one...

The keeper comes off his line to close down the ball and isn't fast enough.. which isn't surprising when it's Ibarbo who is one of the fastest players around...

Comes off his line, closes the ball down, fails in doing so...

First goal you can see the keeper is trying to get the ball, Ibarbo is fast and gets there first..

Second, the keeper, rightly closes the gap and Pinilla skillfully slots it home past him...

[jcb1980]

@ oneunited,

Whilst i appreciate they are all really **** goals to concede, no one can argue that.... i do feel in this particular case they are just that.... crap goals as opposed to ME bugs... Dont get me wrong im all for beating up on the ME as im as frustrated as anyone, but for me its the frequency of poor goals im frustrated with. I.E im conceding goals like yours and worse every game.....

[fmFutbolManager]

So it's acceptable for a keeper to just stand there as players put the ball past him, with no attempt to go for the ball?

[jcb1980]

Again, i cant argue with you as im just as frustrated, just for me personally id be pissed at my keeper for being mega poo.... in those particular examples.....

[NotMyCat]

The first goal is, as welshace has said, your keeper attempting to come for the ball and being beaten to it by a particularly fast player. It's annoying but it's not a bug.

The second goal I'd say the keeper doesn't close the angle down very well and leaves a gap either side for the attacker to shoot, since you're Parma I imagine your keeper has decent attributes in all areas and this might need looking at a little, especially if the problem is consistent across playthoughs.

The third goal, well it's a known bug, though if it's any consolation they work in your favour sometimes too.

[Welshace]

So it's acceptable for a keeper to just stand there as players put the ball past him, with no attempt to go for the ball?

The first one the keeper is going for the ball.... second he didnt close it down in time and the attacker manages to slot past him..

Happens week in, week out in every league irl...

[taylorsmen]

Just noticed this, match prep missing for the next match

[apalaxe]

So it's acceptable for a keeper to just stand there as players put the ball past him, with no attempt to go for the ball?

Don't get me wrong but i think you are blaming the wrong player, your defence was not able to prevent those playtroughs or stop the opposition and was little your keeper could do about.

This happens to me all the time when i underestimate the opposition attack, worst case scenario i assign a defender to man mark specific player and or drop a bit deeper.

Actually i'm playing a save in Serie A and those 2 strikers from Cagliari are a handful when i play against them.

[demonen]

[video=youtube;EL2JjtNsUcM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL2JjtNsUcM

The game didn't consider this to be a mistake on either part (passer OR goalkeeper). Though, to be fair, it's not: it's more like a stroke.

Edit: PKM uploaded as "demonen_goalkeeper-bug.pkm"

[Herbert Fandel]

The game didn't consider this to be a mistake on either part (passer OR goalkeeper). Though, to be fair, it's not: it's more like a stroke.

And you put it into the bugs forum right? with the .pkm too? We would all like for this obvious ME bug to be fixed.

[fmFutbolManager]

The first one the keeper is going for the ball.... second he didnt close it down in time and the attacker manages to slot past him..

Happens week in, week out in every league irl...

But this happens in every single game. I'm sure most of the goals I'm conceding is because the keeper just doesn't dive at the ball, he just runs at the defender and into him rather than diving at the ball.

I watch match of the day every week, I don't see this every week. Perhaps it's the ME poorly representing what is actually the keeper just rushing the attacker and going for the tackle. Just looks bad when all the goals I'm conceding just look like the keeper isn't trying.

[demonen]

And you put it into the bugs forum right? with the .pkm too? We would all like for this obvious ME bug to be fixed.

Uploaded the pkm, but havn't posted it to the bug forums yet.

[Neil Brock]

Uploaded the pkm, but havn't posted it to the bug forums yet.

Please do, randomly uploaded pkms with no description we can't do anything with. Thanks.

[demonen]

Please do, randomly uploaded pkms with no description we can't do anything with. Thanks.

Done.

[asdpoo]

I need a way to prevent my Goalkeeper from taking the free-kicks in my half. He does it too often and he is terrible at it, which leads to nasty counters! I do have designated free-kick takers.

[Hunter T]

Good response, I don't think I could have managed it without swearing. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the ME, there is absolutely no logic in saying it shouldn't be worked on, or that them working on it is evidence of it being sub-standard. No. Logic.

Excuse me mister, but it was you who talked about something which is ''perfectly playble'', which means there is no need for an improvment really, maybe some tuning here and there.

Which is not true, as one can perfectly see (well, if he wants to) 20 odd pages in this thread now.

But, alas, the new patch (the 3rd major patch in a row for a game which is barely one month old i might add ) is eagerly awaited not because we hope it contains some extra fine, extra smooth tuning to a ''perfectly playble'' engine, but major, match altering stuff, such as described here (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/332832-Braindead-defenders-when-through-ball-is-played ) among other things, like Gk distribution - come on, i mean, please -, players acting like havine serious medical conditions, that sort of stuff.

[Herbert Fandel]

Excuse me mister, but it was you who talked about something which is ''perfectly playble'', which means there is no need for an improvment really, maybe some tuning here and there.

Which is not true, as one can perfectly see (well, if he wants to) 20 odd pages in this thread now.

But, alas, the new patch (the 3rd major patch in a row for a game which is barely one month old i might add ) is eagerly awaited not because we hope it contains some extra fine, extra smooth tuning to a ''perfectly playble'' engine, but major, match altering stuff, such as described here (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/332832-Braindead-defenders-when-through-ball-is-played ) among other things, like Gk distribution - come on, i mean, please -, players acting like havine serious medical conditions, that sort of stuff.

Why are you trying to claim that 'perfectly playable' equals perfect? Youll be glad be glad to know I won't respond to your total pish any more

[Stewart91]

Why are you trying to claim that 'perfectly playable' equals perfect? Stop being a moron, youll be glad be glad to know I won't respond to your total pish any more

If you disagree, have a debate. Why get personal?

[rvaan]

First off, I'm really sorry, but it's going to be a long post and not entirely related to the ME - please move to a wider-scoped thread if it's an issue. Also, English is not my native language, therefore I apologize for typos, misspellings, weird syntax and the like.

Now onto the topic at hand: I've played roughly 400 hours, as the title says. One team only, a BSR outfit (Bromley), thirteen seasons in, career mode, only the English leagues enabled. Haven't tried an excessive amount of tactics, just a handful, most revolving around having four at the back - all converted to classic though, thus I have no experience whatsoever with the tactic creator and shouts. Didn't use the Editor either.

The UI

I've played the franchise since '98, stuck with it when it split into FM and CM - didn't bother with CM, but played FM reiterations extensively - guessing around 12 hundred hours each year. Thus far, I really enjoy the UI, especially due to the amount of information it can display (and mostly customizable as well) in a limited amount of space. I don't find it staggering, au contraire: I could manage a few extra panels in most windows. Minor gripes:

- manager description vanished (I really liked watching myself transitioning from a young and talented manager to an outspoken arse);

- odd placement of player description - I felt it fitted better under personality rather than upper right corner;

- 3D match widgets suffering from Alzheimer every time I bother reviewing a match; some widgets don't retain their spots, overlapping into an annoying cascade.

- match generation at start of said reviewing; the vanishing act performed by the stats-into-3Dmatch-when-there's-a-highlight: rather enjoyed being able to bask in the full glory of the stats in between highlights.

As I said, minor quality of life gripes that one, if reasonable, can adapt to with no issues. Would love more feedback during matches - or rather, more from the assistant manager: which player doesn't give a damn, which is suffering and why (not only that he's struggling), whether he (the assistant, not the player) feels we should attack, press more, tackle harder or rather he'd shut up shop and pray - not that I'd listen to it most of the time, but it would give a nice touch and would increase immersion by loads; would also love feedback from the physio when there's an injury - even a guesstimate would help with deciding whether to keep or take off a player.

Interactions

Team-talks, media reactions, press interviews: definitely improved in some respects since FM12, still the same in most areas though. Pre- and post-match interviews are rather dull to the point where one feels like waddling through a swathe of useless questions giving the same answer every time because it's rather apparent which the papers will choose to highlight and what your players reactions will be most of the time. I would definitely enjoy if my players would read through the whole interview and not just the headlines - would also love more reactions from more players, including opposition ones. Chairmen are rather inconspicuous, as opposed to real life where most do talk to the press (well, not everywhere and not always extensively, but now and then would suffice).

Team talks seem to produce sketchy results at times, although I didn't experience the roller-coaster mood swings some claim to suffer from in this thread. A definite improvement would be a way to convey your ideas to the players past the tweaking of the sliders - shouts-like, but more mentality-oriented ones: "Don't let them wind you up!", "Don't waste shots!", "Don't play out of trouble, just kick it out!" - thus calming/inflaming the spirits and not really impacting on actual tactics.

Player interactions: again, more reactions from players in regards to media talk would be nice. Training feedback past being unhappy with intensity would also be nice; more post-match reactions to teamtalks would be a plus too, rather than the rare "Unhappy with the teamtalk" happiness event. Team meetings are rather simple; talking about general strategy for the coming season, about squad size, about training levels, about discipline et caetera would be improvements. Talks about complacency too. This could probably be part of the match preparation I guess.

Board interactions: not much has changed it seems, but it doesn't feel like much could be added - perhaps the board could be more forthcoming in their general ideas about the club and its prospects, about players, about your tactics - my chairman seems to be rather reclusive - perhaps others are different; again, I only managed one team under two CEOs.

Training

It's a big step forward - really disliked FM12's superstar creation kit. Feels a lot more lifelike and intuitive. Customization is lacking though and would welcome the ability to create templates for individual roles - the more attributes implicated, the harder the training; synergistic attributes would train better than unrelated ones (i.e. off the ball and finishing and composure would count as synergistic ones, as opposed to tackling and dribbling and passing).

There are odd attribute decrease events, where a player suffers a small (smaller than a point's worth of range) loss across the board; it's unclear whether it's due to overtraining or simply the consequence of a drop in training dedication. Which dedication seems to be vanished, aside from a panel in club overview, which is nice, but not extremely helpful.

Training rate: players seemed to progress rather abruptly with the increase in training facilities and coaches; seems intuitive, although a bit too harsh. Minimal experience as a lowbie league team though, multiple playthroughs would be needed to ascertain this. Overall, the progression seems lifelike, youngsters needing a couple of years to become first-team worthy. All in all, training seems to be spot on, although improvable.

Matches and Tactics

Playing with converted-to-classic tactics seems viable. I refrained from trying to "game" the tactics and created, as far as my knowledge carried me, lifelike and hopefully reasonable tactics. They all seemed to perform as expected, although the current ME seems to favor wingers and AMCs - I might experience confirmation bias, thus I won't label it as a ME fault, but rather as a feature. There is a distinct feeling of tactic-countertactic I can't shake: meaning certain tactics have certain counters, no matter the players or mentality/style of play. Not all bad, as it promotes tactical thinking, which I enjoy.

Matches: took me a while to grasp the fact that key highlights from FM12 are extended ones now. Games felt rather barren before, but with extended highlights there's a decent amount of immersion to enjoy the matches. Overall match experience is rather positive, although I got this impression of complacency/minnow syndrome being more prevalent this iteration. Managed to upset matches versus higher rated teams on a regular basis and struggled with equally rated or lower rated teams enough times to become a nagging feeling that my players' concentration and determination was wavering in front of lowbies, even though they're described as "very determined". It might be down to tactics, thus I'm not really jumping the gun and saying it's a bug. Although silly goals, freak moments and unseen before skills were experienced in matches where the gap between the clubs was wide.

3D Engine

Much improved since the last patch and compared to FM12 as well. There are leftover issues with player marking, decision making when going forward and weird shooting choices (players shooting when hugging the byline is the most annoying one, when the usual option is to cross it into the box - every now and then choosing to shoot wouldn't be an issue, but it happens more often than not). Wingers passing/making through balls from an angle and defenders rendered stupid by the pass is one of the major gripe with the new ME. Another one is that fullbacks never ever ever bother closing down crosses. Which seems to be completely un-lifelike. A high amount of own goals is another annoying thing, although it might be down to the game classifying deflections as OGs.

Ball physics are rather fine, although it feels like the formula that describes curve during flight and after touching the ground might be a bit off - the ball doesn't seem to lose spin while traveling through the air at long distances, describing an almost perfect radial flight, rather than an eliptical one; in RL, due to air friction, spin momentum is lost progressively and by leaps and bounds with each ground contact. Water logged pitches seem to slow the ball less than before and less than it would happen in RL. I admit I've no theoretical training past high school physics, so it's just a feeling backed by a subjective RL observation.

First-touches feel a bit off as well, especially for players with low technique, low first touch and especially after goal kicks - the ball seems to glue itself to the players on a consistent basis. Too good first touches might be a cause to the high pass completion ratio, especially with unskilled teams and in low league management.

Economy and Player Transactions

No major gripes, promising players are harder to buy now and that's a very good thing. Player movement seemed to be rather low, which is consistent to RL. I would love if bigger clubs would be more aggressive at snatching prospects and bullying into selling; I found that keeping players at club was rather easy, as interest seemed to be tame and restricted to bidding once and backing off if rejected, even though the player had a rather lowish minimum release fee. Overall, clubs seem to be able to hold onto and develop their youngsters, although not at the rate a human manager (and IRL) would be doing. Smarter AI clubs would be a nice improvement, especially in the training area. Perhaps it's a design choice, seeing AI biased towards developing certain attributes would give away design biases.

Bottom line, I enjoy the game more than previous iterations. Feels harder, more punishing in some aspects, even though you feel being punished without knowing why sometimes. Some improvements in the ME, some QoL ones and more data/feedback from the game would please the perfectionist in me, but its current state is by no means detracting me from enjoying it. Keep up the good work!

(TL;DR: I don't have one, sorry - you'll have to go through the whole post )

[Michael F]

keep it on topic and quit the arguments please

[daylight]

keep it on topic and quit the arguments please

Did you pull the night shift mate?

Good luck in this thread

[Michael F]

nonleague - keep this thread on topic please, if you are not happy with a post please use the report post function (triangle on the bottom left of your post) and it will be looked in to by a moderator, thanks.

daylight - looks like it

[nonleague]

nonleague - keep this thread on topic please, if you are not happy with a post please use the report post function (triangle on the bottom left of your post) and it will be looked in to by a moderator, thanks.

daylight - looks like it

How on earth can you delete my post and leave a post which has called someone a moron? Are you advocating this? Is this allowed? because if so, then what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.... At least moderate this board in a fair manner. You've now deleted my post for a 2nd time and yet still keep the post up in which the guy calls the other guy a moron. Is it okay to call someone a MORON?

[nonleague]

Why are you trying to claim that 'perfectly playable' equals perfect? Stop being a moron, youll be glad be glad to know I won't respond to your total pish any more

No need for insults. He was only trying to say his piece in regards to the ME.

[Michael F]

nonleague - If you feel Herbert Fandel's post was inappropriate use the report post function and someone will review it. The only reason your posts have been deleted is that we are trying to keep feedback threads like this on topic so it is easier for SI to pick the bones out of it so to speak, its nothing personal.

If you have any problems with the moderation team please use the contact us button at the bottom of this forum, this goes directly to SI.

[nonleague]

nonleague - If you feel Herbert Fandel's post was inappropriate use the report post function and someone will review it. The only reason your posts have been deleted is that we are trying to keep feedback threads like this on topic so it is easier for SI to pick the bones out of it so to speak, its nothing personal.

If you have any problems with the moderation team please use the contact us button at the bottom of this forum, this goes directly to SI.

Thank you for the response Michael, however You have already reviewed it and did not remove it, hence you feel it's appropriate. Enough said regarding this issue now.

[daylight]

I am actually gonig to write a letter to SI head office regarding this issue.

Really?

Come on mate.

I tell you what some of the guys you are arguing with are just baiting you,Just ignore them and don't make to big a deal out of it.

As for you wasting your money,I was right were you are now,try reading from where I posted from near the bottom of this thread http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/332584-A-Twelve-Step-Guide-towards-Playing-FM13-amp-Understanding-the-ME/page3

I am willing to bet I have played the game much longer than you and I was pretty upset to say the least at this years release,after I started to use the TC the game has quickly become 1 of the best.

Also like I said,do yourself a favour and get out of this thread and stop being baited by those guys.

[Michael F]

report it anyway and moderator assigned to this forum can review it.

[nonleague]

Really?

Come on mate.

I tell you what some of the guys you are arguing with are just baiting you,Just ignore them and don't make to big a deal out of it.

As for you wasting your money,I was right were you are now,try reading from where I posted from near the bottom of this thread http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/332584-A-Twelve-Step-Guide-towards-Playing-FM13-amp-Understanding-the-ME/page3

I am willing to bet I have played the game much longer than you and I was pretty upset to say the least at this years release,after I started to use the TC the game has quickly become 1 of the best.

Also like I said,do yourself a favour and get out of this thread and stop being baited by those guys.

I'm actually reading it now so thank you for that. However I would like to say that I am using the TC already, I have been playing this game since the Amiga days and have a fairly good idea of what I'm doing on this game. I had a solid tactic in FM12 which defensively was so tight and we would grind out 1-0 2-0s etc. However, what has annoyed me in this game is the poor defending issues that have been raised and since this present patch the absurd amount of injuries. I actually like a challenge and will keep trying new things, however I cannot see a way to stop the high amount of match injuries and the fact that still my fullbacks will not cut out the crosses and that my central defenders even though they're set to tight/man mark will somehow be 3 yards off of the man they're meant to be marking.

FWIW, I do love FM the game and that's why I continue to upload pkms in the ME forum to help improve the ME so that we can all experience a better game. I am about to build a new tactic which coule well possibly fall flat on deaf ears, but I feel it's needed due to the present state of the ME.

[Rashidi]

I actually like a challenge and will keep trying new things, however I cannot see a way to stop the high amount of match injuries and the fact that still my fullbacks will not cut out the crosses and that my central defenders even though they're set to tight/man mark will somehow be 3 yards off of the man they're meant to be marking.

I have a very short team and for 2 seasons in a row I've topped the league, one of the things i needed to do was to cut out crosses that are dangerous. That I have done consistently. So there must be something different we are doing?

[Ackter]

I wish people would stop bickering over things in here and post in the bugs forum instead.

[daylight]

I was the same as you with this ME,I really was,hell just ask wwfan how much crap I gave him

I set up from new a 4-3-1-2 formation and I went through the TC,I took my time and did everything the way I wanted it to be,I did spend hours looking for new players,after the start of the season I came on here and wwfan gave me the 1 thing I was missing for my formation,once I had sorted that I went on a great season,it was not just winning but how my team played,watching the highlights were for sure the best yet in any FM,sure there are still problems but the highlights can be great to watch once you have your tactic right.

I would sit down and honestly ask yourself if your tactic would work,don;t think "well Man Utd makes it work",honestly sit down and think of the pro's and con's.

Ask yourself if you have a defending midfielder if you happen to get hit on the break,does 1 of your forwards come deep to look for the ball instead of waiting for the long pass?

Honestly I have seen some great football in my highlights this year,I have adapted my play and once you get it right you will get so much satisfaction from it,I kid you not.

[nonleague]

I have a very short team and for 2 seasons in a row I've topped the league, one of the things i needed to do was to cut out crosses that are dangerous. That I have done consistently. So there must be something different we are doing?

Okay shall I post up my tactic in the tactics forum for you to have a gander over? Remember this tactic was solid defensively in FM12 and it is made using the TC.

[Ackter]

It's pointless discussing anything with nonleague - he's been given loads of advice on how to try and solve the problems he's having, he'd just prefer to fill up half a dozen pages here moaning about it instead, unfortunately.

[wwfan]

I was the same as you with this ME,I really was,hell just ask wwfan how much crap I gave him

I prefer to think of it as 'misplaced, but robust, opinion'

[daylight]

I prefer to think of it as 'misplaced, but robust, opinion'

Lol...yeah that sounds better

[nonleague]

It's pointless discussing anything with nonleague - he's been given loads of advice on how to try and solve the problems he's having, he'd just prefer to fill up half a dozen pages here moaning about it instead, unfortunately.

No Ackter, I have followed all of the advise and it's actually got worse! So that's why as a last resort I will post it up in the tactics forum for you guys to have a ponder over and show me where I'm going wrong. I know I can easily be wrong about what I have been doing, I just cannot for the life of me see where.

[MacZidane]

I am actually gonig to write a letter to SI head office regarding this issue.

:lol:

That's the greatest thing I've read on here since I joined.

[nonleague]

:lol:

That's the greatest thing I've read on here since I joined.

Ever heard of 'tongue in cheek'? Obviously not.

[Sussex Hammer]

Overall match experience is rather positive, although I got this impression of complacency/minnow syndrome being more prevalent this iteration. Managed to upset matches versus higher rated teams on a regular basis and struggled with equally rated or lower rated teams enough times to become a nagging feeling that my players' concentration and determination was wavering in front of lowbies, even though they're described as "very determined". It might be down to tactics, thus I'm not really jumping the gun and saying it's a bug.

Must say I agree with this. I had a couple of great performances beating Liverpool 2-0, Arsenal 2-1 (and that never happens!), then went and beat Newcastle 2-1 and I was flying. Then played bottom 3 sides West Brom and Swansea and lost with awful performances. Bottom Club Southampton trounced me as well yet I go and beat Spurs!! I know it happens IRL but it does make life difficult working out if you are tactically ok because the team talk reactions seemed fine. Just odd that one week you have the lionshare possession against Arsenal then a week later can't get the ball off a relegation certainty!!

[nonleague]

It's pointless discussing anything with nonleague - he's been given loads of advice on how to try and solve the problems he's having, he'd just prefer to fill up half a dozen pages here moaning about it instead, unfortunately.

Here is the link to my tactic Ackter. Please have a look through it if you would be so kind and point out anywhere that you feel I could be going wrong as it will be much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/333976-433-tactic-that-was-solid-in-FM12-is-just-being-destroyed-in-FM13.-Help-needed-please.?p=8339002#post8339002

[BiggusD]

First off, I'm really sorry, but it's going to be a long post and not entirely related to the ME - please move to a wider-scoped thread if it's an issue. Also, English is not my native language, therefore I apologize for typos, misspellings, weird syntax and the like.

Now onto the topic at hand: I've played roughly 400 hours, as the title says. One team only, a BSR outfit (Bromley), thirteen seasons in, career mode, only the English leagues enabled. Haven't tried an excessive amount of tactics, just a handful, most revolving around having four at the back - all converted to classic though, thus I have no experience whatsoever with the tactic creator and shouts. Didn't use the Editor either.

The UI

I've played the franchise since '98, stuck with it when it split into FM and CM - didn't bother with CM, but played FM reiterations extensively - guessing around 12 hundred hours each year. Thus far, I really enjoy the UI, especially due to the amount of information it can display (and mostly customizable as well) in a limited amount of space. I don't find it staggering, au contraire: I could manage a few extra panels in most windows. Minor gripes:

- manager description vanished (I really liked watching myself transitioning from a young and talented manager to an outspoken arse);

- odd placement of player description - I felt it fitted better under personality rather than upper right corner;

- 3D match widgets suffering from Alzheimer every time I bother reviewing a match; some widgets don't retain their spots, overlapping into an annoying cascade.

- match generation at start of said reviewing; the vanishing act performed by the stats-into-3Dmatch-when-there's-a-highlight: rather enjoyed being able to bask in the full glory of the stats in between highlights.

As I said, minor quality of life gripes that one, if reasonable, can adapt to with no issues. Would love more feedback during matches - or rather, more from the assistant manager: which player doesn't give a damn, which is suffering and why (not only that he's struggling), whether he (the assistant, not the player) feels we should attack, press more, tackle harder or rather he'd shut up shop and pray - not that I'd listen to it most of the time, but it would give a nice touch and would increase immersion by loads; would also love feedback from the physio when there's an injury - even a guesstimate would help with deciding whether to keep or take off a player.

Interactions

Team-talks, media reactions, press interviews: definitely improved in some respects since FM12, still the same in most areas though. Pre- and post-match interviews are rather dull to the point where one feels like waddling through a swathe of useless questions giving the same answer every time because it's rather apparent which the papers will choose to highlight and what your players reactions will be most of the time. I would definitely enjoy if my players would read through the whole interview and not just the headlines - would also love more reactions from more players, including opposition ones. Chairmen are rather inconspicuous, as opposed to real life where most do talk to the press (well, not everywhere and not always extensively, but now and then would suffice).

Team talks seem to produce sketchy results at times, although I didn't experience the roller-coaster mood swings some claim to suffer from in this thread. A definite improvement would be a way to convey your ideas to the players past the tweaking of the sliders - shouts-like, but more mentality-oriented ones: "Don't let them wind you up!", "Don't waste shots!", "Don't play out of trouble, just kick it out!" - thus calming/inflaming the spirits and not really impacting on actual tactics.

Player interactions: again, more reactions from players in regards to media talk would be nice. Training feedback past being unhappy with intensity would also be nice; more post-match reactions to teamtalks would be a plus too, rather than the rare "Unhappy with the teamtalk" happiness event. Team meetings are rather simple; talking about general strategy for the coming season, about squad size, about training levels, about discipline et caetera would be improvements. Talks about complacency too. This could probably be part of the match preparation I guess.

Board interactions: not much has changed it seems, but it doesn't feel like much could be added - perhaps the board could be more forthcoming in their general ideas about the club and its prospects, about players, about your tactics - my chairman seems to be rather reclusive - perhaps others are different; again, I only managed one team under two CEOs.

Training

It's a big step forward - really disliked FM12's superstar creation kit. Feels a lot more lifelike and intuitive. Customization is lacking though and would welcome the ability to create templates for individual roles - the more attributes implicated, the harder the training; synergistic attributes would train better than unrelated ones (i.e. off the ball and finishing and composure would count as synergistic ones, as opposed to tackling and dribbling and passing).

There are odd attribute decrease events, where a player suffers a small (smaller than a point's worth of range) loss across the board; it's unclear whether it's due to overtraining or simply the consequence of a drop in training dedication. Which dedication seems to be vanished, aside from a panel in club overview, which is nice, but not extremely helpful.

Training rate: players seemed to progress rather abruptly with the increase in training facilities and coaches; seems intuitive, although a bit too harsh. Minimal experience as a lowbie league team though, multiple playthroughs would be needed to ascertain this. Overall, the progression seems lifelike, youngsters needing a couple of years to become first-team worthy. All in all, training seems to be spot on, although improvable.

Matches and Tactics

Playing with converted-to-classic tactics seems viable. I refrained from trying to "game" the tactics and created, as far as my knowledge carried me, lifelike and hopefully reasonable tactics. They all seemed to perform as expected, although the current ME seems to favor wingers and AMCs - I might experience confirmation bias, thus I won't label it as a ME fault, but rather as a feature. There is a distinct feeling of tactic-countertactic I can't shake: meaning certain tactics have certain counters, no matter the players or mentality/style of play. Not all bad, as it promotes tactical thinking, which I enjoy.

Matches: took me a while to grasp the fact that key highlights from FM12 are extended ones now. Games felt rather barren before, but with extended highlights there's a decent amount of immersion to enjoy the matches. Overall match experience is rather positive, although I got this impression of complacency/minnow syndrome being more prevalent this iteration. Managed to upset matches versus higher rated teams on a regular basis and struggled with equally rated or lower rated teams enough times to become a nagging feeling that my players' concentration and determination was wavering in front of lowbies, even though they're described as "very determined". It might be down to tactics, thus I'm not really jumping the gun and saying it's a bug. Although silly goals, freak moments and unseen before skills were experienced in matches where the gap between the clubs was wide.

3D Engine

Much improved since the last patch and compared to FM12 as well. There are leftover issues with player marking, decision making when going forward and weird shooting choices (players shooting when hugging the byline is the most annoying one, when the usual option is to cross it into the box - every now and then choosing to shoot wouldn't be an issue, but it happens more often than not). Wingers passing/making through balls from an angle and defenders rendered stupid by the pass is one of the major gripe with the new ME. Another one is that fullbacks never ever ever bother closing down crosses. Which seems to be completely un-lifelike. A high amount of own goals is another annoying thing, although it might be down to the game classifying deflections as OGs.

Ball physics are rather fine, although it feels like the formula that describes curve during flight and after touching the ground might be a bit off - the ball doesn't seem to lose spin while traveling through the air at long distances, describing an almost perfect radial flight, rather than an eliptical one; in RL, due to air friction, spin momentum is lost progressively and by leaps and bounds with each ground contact. Water logged pitches seem to slow the ball less than before and less than it would happen in RL. I admit I've no theoretical training past high school physics, so it's just a feeling backed by a subjective RL observation.

First-touches feel a bit off as well, especially for players with low technique, low first touch and especially after goal kicks - the ball seems to glue itself to the players on a consistent basis. Too good first touches might be a cause to the high pass completion ratio, especially with unskilled teams and in low league management.

Economy and Player Transactions

No major gripes, promising players are harder to buy now and that's a very good thing. Player movement seemed to be rather low, which is consistent to RL. I would love if bigger clubs would be more aggressive at snatching prospects and bullying into selling; I found that keeping players at club was rather easy, as interest seemed to be tame and restricted to bidding once and backing off if rejected, even though the player had a rather lowish minimum release fee. Overall, clubs seem to be able to hold onto and develop their youngsters, although not at the rate a human manager (and IRL) would be doing. Smarter AI clubs would be a nice improvement, especially in the training area. Perhaps it's a design choice, seeing AI biased towards developing certain attributes would give away design biases.

Bottom line, I enjoy the game more than previous iterations. Feels harder, more punishing in some aspects, even though you feel being punished without knowing why sometimes. Some improvements in the ME, some QoL ones and more data/feedback from the game would please the perfectionist in me, but its current state is by no means detracting me from enjoying it. Keep up the good work!

(TL;DR: I don't have one, sorry - you'll have to go through the whole post )

Very good and well writtten feedback. I appreciate reading this.

[HUNT3R]

@oneunited

In that video you posted, the third goal is an issue that a few people seem to have. Nothing wrong with the first two though. Nothing much the keeper could do for either

For the first goal the striker reacted very, very quickly. He was always going to get there first and with your defence being caught out there, your keeper tried to close the angle.

For the second, again, nothing wrong with what the keeper did. The through ball was good. The keeper, again being one-on-one, closed down with roughly the same speed as the attacker is coming toward him. That's again fairly basic goalkeeping techniques. The striker puts it bottom corner of the far post. Nothing much the keeper can do.

I will say something though. Take a look again at the second goal. The through ball is played and the striker will get it, BUT there is a defender on him. That defender SHOULD stick with him and jockey him away from goal once the striker receives the ball. So there wouldn't have been too much danger necessarily. As soon as the two of them set off after the ball, the defender makes an odd move AWAY from the ball and attacker and that gives the striker the one-on-one that never should have happened. THAT is what looks like the bug to me.

I suggest you go apologise to your keeper

ps. Maybe for the first goal what is lacking is the proper animation for the keeper "spreading" himself. I think the 3D is just not representing the ME properly in that situation.

[fmFutbolManager]

Maybe it's my tactics, I don't know anymore. But could someone please tell me how I can get my defenders to chase the ball and not run away from it? Pazzini plays the ball into a space that seems impossible for him to get to. He has 4 defenders well ahead of the ball, considering his pace is only 14 he shouldn't be getting to that ball.

Except, Paletta decides to continue his run AWAY from the ball and the other players just walk around like they have nothing better to do, allowing Pazzini to run straight through and score. How can I make my midfielders bust a nut to get to that ball before the attacker, and how can I make my defenders turn around and chase down the ball and not continue running away from it?

Thanks.

[Fancy Gaffot]

I hate how players often head the ball to absolutely nowhere. You'd never see that in real life.

[edgar555]

I hate how players often head the ball to absolutely nowhere. You'd never see that in real life.

Never? Seriously? Hyperbole much? I have to wonder how much football some of you have ever watched.

I'm all for picking the holes in and improving this ME but some sense of realism and understanding of actual football is needed.

[CityAndColour]

I hate how players often head the ball to absolutely nowhere. You'd never see that in real life.

The only one that annoys me is the furthest forward attacker heading it on. You see plenty of aimless headers in midfield and defence in real life.