Match Engine Update 13.1.3 - quick overview. ME feedback here please.

[master_wu]

Hernandez "sit" on the pitch after substitution

[tajj 7]

Posted a few pages back but i still think there are issues with the shots and good strikers missing easy chances.

Also no shots at all for villa? bit silly

[urprobablyright]

I'm not your secretary, if you read a little before posting there wouldn't have been a need.

Anyway you're in the right place now, enjoy

Regardless of whether or not I should have read the text, you just locked off half an hour's worth of typing and a legitimate opinion on this year's screwed up match engine, so if you've got energy to burn in that belabored clicking finger and any means of digging it up and copy/pasting it here ('cause I don't seem to be able to) I'd appreciate it.

Otherwise tell me where I can find it for myself.

[TSH]

Im not here to bash SI as i enjoy playing the FM series & cant see myself ever not enjoying them. BUT, i still cannot understand why sloppy ME animations/bugs that were not in previous games are in this version (pre & post patch). Surely all that was good in FM 12 ME should be kept & developed further.

Im gonna post 2 more videos showing sloppy goals conceded. I like a challenge from the AI, but losing games to silly goals is just frustrating. Especially in the business end of the season when hours have been invested & points ca determine promotion/relegation/europe etc..

Its all too random, it appears 90% of the time the players respond to the ball (i mean basic 2 yards away in your 6 yard box), but sometimes it feels the game is scripted (ie my defender watches the ball 2 yards next to him while a striker 10 yards away rushes in to score)

Anyway i just think the players are not all responding in a dynamic fashion & the game just doesnt feel right (again only about 10-20% of the time). I truly feel more defensive animations are required to help represent what im sure the game processes as a logical event.

Here are 2 clips for what its worth, as i dont know if the issues above can actually be fixed[video=youtube;LNHIxIlYUZg]

[video=youtube;q1IHbVIyTLI]

There is no excuse the full back abandoning the player in the first video and letting him take such an easy cross. He actually steps back. Completely wrong and surely a problem.

[stevemc]

Most of the issues people seem to be having in here, are not effecting me so far:

[brewtal]

Played the same match 8 times as a test, same formation and tactics every time to see the results:

2-0 win

1-1 draw

3-1 win

4-0 loss

2-0 loss

2-2 draw

1-0 loss

3-0 win

Think this says it all.

SAME TACTICS EVERY TIME and completely different result every time, SORT THIS OUT PLEASE, worst match engine for years imo.

[tlm_77]

Played the same match 8 times as a test, same formation and tactics every time to see the results:

2-0 win

1-1 draw

3-1 win

4-0 loss

2-0 loss

2-2 draw

1-0 loss

3-0 win

Think this says it all.

SAME TACTICS EVERY TIME and completely different result every time, SORT THIS OUT PLEASE, worst match engine for years imo.

So you're saying it should be the same result EVERY time just because you pick the same tactic?

*whispers* That's now how it works

[Kriss]

Played the same match 8 times as a test, same formation and tactics every time to see the results:

2-0 win

1-1 draw

3-1 win

4-0 loss

2-0 loss

2-2 draw

1-0 loss

3-0 win

Think this says it all.

SAME TACTICS EVERY TIME and completely different result every time, SORT THIS OUT PLEASE, worst match engine for years imo.

Meaningless, there's a random factor included every time the ME calculates a result.

[SGartz]

These updates are a joke. I won my first 3 games with Leeds quite easily, the game updates and I lose my next home game 5-1 where I am favorites, the away team have 5 shots, 5 goals, whereas I dominate possession. The update in the engine has totally destroyed how my team play. Nice.

[Kriss]

Regardless of whether or not I should have read the text, you just locked off half an hour's worth of typing and a legitimate opinion on this year's screwed up match engine, so if you've got energy to burn in that belabored clicking finger and any means of digging it up and copy/pasting it here ('cause I don't seem to be able to) I'd appreciate it.

Otherwise tell me where I can find it for myself.

I actually did take the trouble to merge it because I appreciated how much effort you'd put in, but a merge places it by time in this thread so it precedes your subsequent posts, http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/331344-Match-Engine-Update-13.1.3-quick-overview.-ME-feedback-here-please.?p=8320329&viewfull=1#post8320329

[brewtal]

Are you some SI blind fan boys or something? I'm not saying it should be the same result every time, but how can arsenal v swansea with same exact tactics have a 3-0 win and a 4-0 loss with everything in between, you would expect maybe a goal or two loss either way with similar results in between not a completely different match every time where i am either completely dominating with 21 shots to 5, then the very next match I am on the backfoot from the off with 6 shots to their 18 and getting smashed.

Makes no sense to me whatsoever, yes I expect the result to be different every time, but there should be a similar pattern to the matches not just a wild difference each time!

[Mensell76]

A rethorical question: if in real life Barcelona would play the same game against Real Madrid (of course never going to happen) in their award winning tactics, would it always end in the same result?

Sometimes I can not even fathom how far people will go to blaming a match engine. The fact that you see different results every time is entirely perfect, it means the match engine has a normal action-reaction-chain of reactions principle. Every choice on a pitch leads to a different action/attack etc. Thus resulting in different scores. Even if you had seen 8 2-2 scores it would luckily all have been different matches.

Played the same match 8 times as a test, same formation and tactics every time to see the results:

2-0 win

1-1 draw

3-1 win

4-0 loss

2-0 loss

2-2 draw

1-0 loss

3-0 win

Think this says it all.

SAME TACTICS EVERY TIME and completely different result every time, SORT THIS OUT PLEASE, worst match engine for years imo.

[Kriss]

Are you some SI blind fan boys or something? I'm not saying it should be the same result every time, but how can arsenal v swansea with same exact tactics have a 3-0 win and a 4-0 loss with everything in between, you would expect maybe a goal or two loss either way with similar results in between not a completely different match every time where i am either completely dominating with 21 shots to 5, then the very next match I am on the backfoot from the off with 6 shots to their 18 and getting smashed.

Makes no sense to me whatsoever, yes I expect the result to be different every time, but there should be a similar pattern to the matches not just a wild difference each time!

You really don't understand do you? RANDOM FACTOR.

Also calling people fan boys is infractable, so cut that out.

[Cruisio1]

Theres a hell of a lot wrong with the current game, but results not being close to the same when the same tactics are used isn't one of them. It'd be far too easy to predict how games were going to go if that was the case

[Preveza]

Jury still out on the ME, but its by far a major improvement...My only concern is the Processing speed of FM13

I have an i7 processor, 8GB Ram, and am running approx 5 leagues with around 122,000 players and its so much slower than FM12.

I hope SI can rectify this issue

[jam jameson]

The injury situation is ridiculous. I've been told it's my fault that I'm getting injuries but as you say the AI managers are just as prone to having several injuries per match.

I really appreciate the work on the ME, but please do not tell us that injuries are OUR FAULT... please check seriously the issue, believe us when we say that after the patch ita has worsened drammatically, while all other ME aspects went better...

[Kriss]

I really appreciate the work on the ME, but please do not tell us that injuries are OUR FAULT... please check seriously the issue, believe us when we say that after the patch ita has worsened drammatically, while all other ME aspects went better...

But it hasn't worsened for an awful lot of people and it may not be your fault that the changes caused a rash of injuries for you, but it's in your hands to get them back to normality using the time honoured methods.

[CityAndColour]

Meaningless, there's a random factor included every time the ME calculates a result.

Indeed, a real life team could play a game ten times with the same tactics and get ten different results.

[MacZidane]

Played the same match 8 times as a test, same formation and tactics every time to see the results:

2-0 win

1-1 draw

3-1 win

4-0 loss

2-0 loss

2-2 draw

1-0 loss

3-0 win

Think this says it all.

SAME TACTICS EVERY TIME and completely different result every time, SORT THIS OUT PLEASE, worst match engine for years imo.

Go and do the exact same with FM12 and post your results. Or indeed any previous version of the game.

Also, you may have played the same tactics in all these games, but did the opposition? Conditions in every game may have been different too, there might have been injuries, sendings offs, tactical adjustments made due to bookings or how that particular game was panning out. There's a million different variables go into every game. Posting a list of results like that means diddley squat. Sorry.

[stevemc]

For the record, I'm happy with the M.E., great work SI.

[Cruisio1]

But it hasn't worsened for an awful lot of people and it may not be your fault that the changes caused a rash of injuries for you, but it's in your hands to get them back to normality using the time honoured methods.

And how do we fix the big increase in the amount of injuries to the AI teams?

[MacZidane]

For the record, I'm happy with the M.E., great work SI.

Aye, it's fine.

Strikes me a lot of people watch the matches looking for things they perceive to be wrong with the ME rather than concentrating on the game itself, which is a bit sad.

[Jarmel]

Played the same match 8 times as a test, same formation and tactics every time to see the results:

2-0 win

1-1 draw

3-1 win

4-0 loss

2-0 loss

2-2 draw

1-0 loss

3-0 win

Think this says it all.

SAME TACTICS EVERY TIME and completely different result every time, SORT THIS OUT PLEASE, worst match engine for years imo.

What teams was it ?

just curious as if they were to evenly matched teams i'd say the above results are spot on. However if one has alot better quality of players than the other team then that would look a bit dodgy.

[Loversleaper]

Randomness tends to happen when you use tactics/strategies that don't suit the match scenario - it's really where you don't want to be. If you make the (more or less) correct tactic/strategy for the game situation then you will get much more 'stable' results. You got to know what you are doing before you conduct any of these type of tests...

[Kriss]

And how do we fix the big increase in the amount of injuries to the AI teams?

You provide documentary evidence that it's happening in the bugs fourm so SI can investigate.

But I would again point out that it isn't happening in everybodies game, certainly isn't in mine where I'd be rather grateful if it would

[Cruisio1]

No problem, i'll start a new game now and provide picture evidence

[Ackter]

PKM and save game evidence would be more useful.

[Jarmel]

Aye, it's fine.

Strikes me a lot of people watch the matches looking for things they perceive to be wrong with the ME rather than concentrating on the game itself, which is a bit sad.

A bit of truth in that i suspect but when there are so many little stupid things that happens that has nothing to do with tactics then everything becomes more noticable . There is just too many silly errors "Howlers" in the game . I play in League one and granted the keepers arnt the best but how many keeper howlers would i expect to see in 1.5 seasons ? Ive seen 5-6 so far . I have allready seen 3 goals from close to the half way line because the keeper has run out to intercept a long ball only to hoof straight to a mc who then puts into an open net. How many times would you see that in 1.5 seasons ? God knows how many times that is happening if we watched every game every week in every comp . I doubt you would see that many howlers across the whole league in one season than what ive seen in the matches my team has played.

These are the major problems then i can list all the stupid things that the players do or cant do . For example good quality dribblers running with the ball with no pressure on them and they overrun the ball. Seriously League One players are bloody good footballers they know how to play. But i wont go on .

[BiggusD]

You really don't understand do you? RANDOM FACTOR.

Also calling people fan boys is infractable, so cut that out.

Maybe that random factor is too "strong"?

For instance, when re-loading matches in order to find out what's really wrong with the tactic and how to fix it, I have never yet seen the same exact team talk have the same result with the same players. Different players get "looking motivated" and "looked to switch off" every time. Why is there a random factor to team talks? Personalities are personalities and people react to the same words the same way 100% of the time; people aren't inconsistent!

Similarly why is there a random factor to tutoring? The same master/apprentice relationship can be a disaster and a major success depending on nothing but a roll of the dice.

Why is there a random factor to forming affiliate relationships? It's business - if both are willing and find it profitable they should work it out - if not why give us the option to try anyway? The "couldn't find any suitable club" message you get after a while is sheer nonsense. If the board/manager decides that the club should have a feeder club, whoever's assigned the task should not come back until he has found one.

When it comes to the football matches themselves, of course they should vary a lot. This is because goals have a tendency to change the nature of football matches. However, one and the same football match re-run shouldn't be so randomized that you get battered in one and overrun them in the other. Then something is wrong with the engine. Sure, Norwich can beat Man U, but that would be through scoring on their single chance while keeping the goal clean from Man U's dozens - you won't see Norwich having 65% possession and 20-6 shots on goal... not ever. Not the same match re-run with all the factors going into the match locked in place. Instead, the same match should be played all over again a 100 times in a row, but in 10-30 of them Norwich manage to get a point through a variation in efficiency and luck.

[ReggaeBwoy]

And how do we fix the big increase in the amount of injuries to the AI teams?

Should Newcastle do the same thing?

[Kriss]

Maybe that random factor is too "strong"?

That's a theoretical possibility, unless you actually believe the definition of random

[Jarmel]

Just for balance .

I took the job at leicester and play a 442 counter all default settings apart from role changes to my TM attack (with thru balls set sometimes) an the football at times is awesomme to watch alltho they dont defend like a counter attacking side, its like a full court press . Un realistic for the tactic type but can produce some nice attacking play.

Oh and then there are the team pre game talks , i know my players will play bad if i dont get at least half them green :/ And then upset a player at the end because i told him passionately he played well ?

See how all the little things add up and make pple like me more agro at the game because our tactics arn't as solid as they should be ??

[Vladel]

If you think it is that bad then just save before every match and replay the results you think are silly if it is indeed all about results for you. As a consumer you bought a product and it is up to you how you enjoy that product and the only person affected by the way you play is yourself. Moaning achieves very little and makes people care for your plight even less than they might normally. As much as i don't like agreeing with some of the mods on here, for the most part they are correct and a few tactical changes will make a big difference (whether this makes a good match engine or a poor one is another discussion) but what it comes down to is the aforementioned enjoyment of the product. By getting angry and ranting is only hurting yourself and creating apathy towards your views. Tweak your tactics and replay the results you don't like and you'll enjoy great success. If you are too honorable for that then just some tactical changes could still make all the difference but calling the match engine down at this point is just getting beyond simple disappointment.

[Kriss]

Just for balance .

I took the job at leicester and play a 442 counter all default settings apart from role changes to my TM attack (with thru balls set sometimes) an the football at times is awesomme to watch alltho they dont defend like a counter attacking side, its like a full court press . Un realistic for the tactic type but can produce some nice attacking play.

Oh and then there are the team pre game talks , i know my players will play bad if i dont get at least half them green :/ And then upset a player at the end because i told him passionately he played well ?

See how all the little things add up and make pple like me more agro at the game because our tactics arn't as solid as they should be ??

I've always thought team talks should be optional and if you choose not to use them there is a neutral affect on both teams, they managed to do that in FML.

I loathe team talks with a vengeance.

[Jarmel]

I've always thought team talks should be optional and if you choose not to use them there is a neutral affect on both teams, they managed to do that in FML.

I loathe team talks with a vengeance.

The beauty of them is tho giving them a raz at halftime allways works . It allmost makes me not to want to score or lead in the first half I'd much rather be 0-1 at halftime and thats just wrong .

[MacZidane]

how many keeper howlers would i expect to see in 1.5 seasons ? Ive seen 5-6 so far . .

Mate, I've saw at least that many by my team's keeper already this season!

[superposh]

Kolarov taps the ball back to Hart from 8-10 yards out under no pressure from an attacker. Hart throws himself on the floor and the ball trickles over the line. Embarrassing SI. This isn't the first time I've seen idiotic things like this in this years game. These things happen for me and against me and like bad decisions made by officials in real life I guess over the course of the season they even themselves out but it really is a joke. Free kicks stand more chance of going in if hit straight at the keeper. I have seen only one direct free kick go in WITHOUT the keeper helping it in three seasons. The DoF feature is a nice gimmick but it's pretty much useless. I have a healthy transfer budget and my squad clearly needs strengthening in key areas yet my "world class" DoF decides to press on with the important business of trying to sign a 4th choice goalkeeper, one of which I only sold 12 months ago. Laughable. I've come to expect much better from SI over the years. Sure the ME has potential and that is all well and good, I'm sure it will improve again with the next patch and maybe FM14 will be amazing thanks to this abortion of a ME. Overall though, SI have dropped the ball this year. I'm disappointed. I will continue playing for now, I'm winning, but it doesn't feel like I'm winning because I'm a great manager like it did with previous games.

I would upload videos to support these ME goofs but I really can't be bothered. There is enough evidence already from what I can see.

[Jarmel]

Mate, I've saw at least that many by my team's keeper already this season!

you need a new keeper

[Osmium]

The ME is fundamentally flawed. The update has limited the amount of chances created in a game irrespective of tactics, opponent ability, fitness etc... So as a result if you play a lesser opponent deploying 5 at the back in a game where chances are limited by default anyway, you have to throw every one forward to avoid a nil-nil or even worse a jammy loss from counter attacks.

If wigan deployed these tactics against a top 4 side 9 time out of 10 they will lose (ala real life) because the top team will hammer their goal with shots. But obviously FM is so rigid and confined by the rules of a broken ME this doesn't happen.

This is truly the worst ME i am sorry to say it, and the phrase back to the drawing board very much applies when it comes to further development. Fm 2012 needed improving not dismantling, if it aint broke don't try & fix it (in this case destroy it)

[CityAndColour]

That'll be the last time I use "pleased" at half time then.

[MacZidane]

Kolarov taps the ball back to Hart from 8-10 yards out under no pressure from an attacker. Hart throws himself on the floor and the ball trickles over the line. Embarrassing SI. This isn't the first time I've seen idiotic things like this in this years game. These things happen for me and against me and like bad decisions made by officials in real life I guess over the course of the season they even themselves out but it really is a joke. Free kicks stand more chance of going in if hit straight at the keeper. I have seen only one direct free kick go in WITHOUT the keeper helping it in three seasons.

In fairness, these were a couple of the main glitches before the update, I'd be very surprised if either of those are still happening. The free kick one in particular I haven't saw happening once since the patch.

[Dave9ffc]

I suppose I only have myself to blame for leaving automatic updates on...

[!.m.!]

Own Goals and Injuries are still a major problem. The number of them both is so overdone.

[Korleone]

A new patch.. a new dissapointing:

.. and a lots of defender's mistakes to led to goal..

I swear it's the last FM which I buy it.

another one

[video=youtube;qvLWgFDfd9w]

[vivoperlei]

• Full backs and wingers continue not to cross the ball, while they have the possibility to do so. They instead pass the ball to their teammates.
  
• Penalties are given more easily.
  
• After the update, I feel as if my players are getting injure more often, since this hadn’t been an issue before.
  
• There appear more bookings in the game. I personally get four or five yellow cards in a game.
  
• Most of the fouls are not given correctly. In some cases, according to what I see, I’m sure that foul will be given; but that doesn’t happen. Similarly, I see some oddly given fouls as well.
  
• There’s an issue with the ball too. With the goal kicks, the ball goes high up and it takes time for it to get back on the ground. Also, some shoots hit the bar and the ball goes back to the middle of the pitch. Seeing the ball coming to him, the goalkeeper doesn’t/can’t anticipate opposition’s attack and such situations usually end up with attacking team scoring.
  
• Goalkeepers and defenders (though not always) make bizarre mistakes, leaving the opposition players to score easy goals.
  

Apart from these, the match engine has improved significantly. Great job!

[scott MUFC]

question, Youth intakes happen, Chelsea used a youth player from said intake in the champions league. why is he registered?

[Graham206]

I just did a count of shots after 19 competitive matches (w11 d6 l2 + 1l on pens). I'm getting 12.26 shots per game as opposed to the 14.2 someone quoted for real life Tottenham earlier, so lower but not massively so. It's certainly not perfect - the AI teams aren't getting enough shots against me - but nor is it hugely different from real life. In the past I've always found FM forced me to become something of a Kevin Keegan manager: you can't stop the opposition scoring so there's no point going to Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge and parking the bus as most teams would in real life you usually just have to try to score more than the opposition. The way the game is currently balanced playing a defensive, counter-attacking game and trying to pinch the win by an odd goal is now a realistic option.

I found drawing 0-0 at Chelsea very satisfying, even if I did lose on pens in the end.

And massively dominating the opposition in one game 11 shots to their 1 and losing 1-0 to a dodgy penalty is more tolerable when the opposition is Celtic who did much the same to Barcelona in real life lately.

[demonen]

Distinct failure to understand what an ME is...

I'm getting bored of hearing how its 'all about beating the ME' ... no it really isn't... the ME merely provides the rules around which the game of football is played...

The ME is changed to create a more realistic environment for the game to be played within. Of course tactics need to be tweaked to suit (unless they were true to logic in the first place, which is what wwfan is always trying to explain).

IRL... if I came along and swapped your ball out in a 5 a side to a concrete ball... you'd need to change your tactics to compensate too..

So if your tactics are "true to logic", you wouldn't have to change them if you replaced the football with a concrete ball? That makes sense...

You are explaining exactly why people are calling bulls#*! on wwfans statement: of course you are going to have to adapt your tactics if the rules of the game change. Since the game is trying to emulate actual football, it makes sense to base your tactics (or take inspiration) from actual football tactics, but just because it's a good football tactic doesn't mean that it will work when being played with a concrete ball (or, in this case, being emulated in the ME).

[asdpoo]

another one

[video=youtube;qvLWgFDfd9w]

Wait, what?! I've had the exact same thing yesterday

[video=youtube;l2bGPR6tcQ4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2bGPR6tcQ4&feature=g-upl

[YOSHIMITSU33]

I'm a really positive person and hate bitching,but this year's game is ****ed on so many levels!

I have tried over 20 tactics and the most shots I get in a game is 8 of which only 2 are on target.I mean,really?!Plus my defence is like a swiss cheese.No matter if I use zonal or man marking,tight marking or not,a high defensive line or deep there are always at least two stupid mistakes in a match which lead to goal.Instead of making the best game in the series for the 20 year anniversary,they make the worst.Way to go SI,way to go...

I really hope those issues (the few shots and dumb defence) will be fixed in the next patch,because otherwise I'm afraid many people will just stop playing FM or revert to older versions of the game as FM 13 is a game which might be enjoyable only to masochists.