jamez91 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I'm not a fan of in depth touching and tweaking to the way my team play. In previous versions since the tactics creator and touchline shouts alongside player roles and duties have been released I have only used them and never touched any tactical sliders or anything else. However after not managing to even win a competitive game on this football manager am I being too lazy? Or is my stance correct that the match engine faults are causing me to lose and nothing of my own doing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 General sensible consensus would suggest a bit of both. The ME needs work (imminent patch coming) for sure. I'm told that leaving the sliders alone is a good idea in this version of the ME. And certainly I'm having great success with just default settings and only using the TC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamez91 Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 A problem is that yes I do use high creativity with Arsenal, however I use short passing. I recently played Swansea away and got hammered 3-0 they dominated the game I just couldnt string passes together. So when I click play ball out of defence and pass ball to feet you would think they would try however my defenders are in acres of space and either the goalkeeper or another defender decides to blast it up field which is one of the main sources of the oppositions goals on the counter from that ball in the air. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sardinia Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 ive always seen the tc as just something that builds you a basic tactic that you then proceed to tweak over time. Definetly never seen it as something you use and then never touch the tactic again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamez91 Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 But if you touch your sliders then it deems your touchline shouts null and void because they then don't effect them. Thats the part I don't understand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sardinia Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 whered you read that? I always thought that shouts over-rule or move adjusted sliders in the direction of the shout. Shouts werent ment to be used for 90 minutes, they were ment to be quick match specific situational tweaks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamez91 Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 I havent read that anywhere its from personal experience. Not that I believe the touchline shouts have an effect in FM13 anyway but if you actually look into it they dont adjust ones which have the box ticked and been set personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The TC in theory should create the most balances tactics you can get, as it's using pre defined settings that adhere to sensible approaches to football, tweaking it in the past would mean it would exploit weaknesses in the ME and create the illusion of brilliance.. that's gone now, which can only be a good thing. That's not to say that using classic tactics or straying from the default settings is wrong of course.. for instance, it would be necessary to create barca's style of play I would think as they don't really adhere to the norm when it comes to tactical convention. The issue is that the ME, while being stronger and more robust, needs further work to make it balanced (which is why we are waiting for a patch ). Hopefully SI can address the issues and people will find it a bit easier to play the type of football they want too much easier. I think a lot people don't realise how even the tiniest of change in an engine like FM's can have a knock on effect on everything else and cause issues. It's why bugs are hard to spot initially. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sardinia Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 well ya, because that would change your tactic.. just because it doesnt visually move the slider of your saved tactic doesnt mean the ME isnt seeing the slider as temporarily moved due to a shout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 And yes, using individual instuctions negates any shouts that would normally affect those instructions.. the shouts are basically pre defined tweaks to your team instructions. If players aren't on default instructions, changes to team instructions won't make a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sardinia Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 And yes, using individual instuctions negates any shouts that would normally affect those instructions..the shouts are basically pre defined tweaks to your team instructions. If you have a player with his player instructions not on default, it won't be effected. I've never seen this written anywhere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamez91 Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 I've never seen this written anywhere Well its true. Thats what I dont understand......the tactical so called geniuses on these forums want you to delve away from the pre defned settings and use tweaks and sliders depending on the opposition however the game encourages it because of the implementation of shouts and opposition individual instructions. I'm finding it hard to get my head around it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!.m.! Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I've never seen this written anywhere It's true. Shouts will only change instructions that you haven't ticked to override. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Not sure where you've been told to stray away from the Tactical Creator.... Sure once you have a great understanding of it, you can in theory get better results as you tweak here and there dependent on your players strengths and weaknesses etc.. but I always stick to the tactical creator. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Well its true. Thats what I dont understand......the tactical so called geniuses on these forums want you to delve away from the pre defned settings and use tweaks and sliders depending on the opposition however the game encourages it because of the implementation of shouts and opposition individual instructions.I'm finding it hard to get my head around it all. Who are these so called geniuses? I've not seen any of these people you mention in the great discussions in the tactics forum either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamez91 Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Who are these so called geniuses? I've not seen any of these people you mention in the great discussions in the tactics forum either.If I put up a complaint about why my tactic isn't working or so and so then members of the forum will advise me to tweak this and tweak that but if I want to adhere to the touchline shouts which I would prefer to use, then it wouldn't be practictal to negate that by personally setting the sliders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 If I put up a complaint about why my tactic isn't working or so and so then members of the forum will advise me to tweak this and tweak that but if I want to adhere to the touchline shouts which I would prefer to use, then it wouldn't be practictal to negate that by personally setting the sliders. You should seek help in the tactics forum where all the knowledgeable cool people hang out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamez91 Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 But my question was for the creators of the game as to whether the match engine is built for the TC or for tinkering and tweaking and if its a balance of both how does that work? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The game is built on the sliders. The TC is just a help wizard to adjust the sliders to set instructions easily. There is no difference between using the TC or adjusting them yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamez91 Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 The TC however doesn't cover every single notch of every single slider though does it? Even with the help of different tactical shouts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Not individually no, the idea is to keep the tactic sensible globally. i.e so you don't have 1 defender with mentality all the way to the left and one with mentality all the way to the right, which wouldn't make tactical sense in a conventional way. And as I said, the TC is merely a tool to quickly create default tactics of your own if you like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamez91 Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 OK I understand. What I still don't understand then is why I can't win a game because obviously the TC and tactical shouts don't go into too much depth so it shouldn't need too much tinkering however I have tried almost every option and my team just performs the same way....diabolical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 few tips i've picked up from this version... keep it simple (as you already know) .. But always have players covering in between the lines (very important this time around), what I mean by that is: you need to have one fullback to support the midfield at least.. and whichever you do, you should have the player ahead of him... say the winger, on support not attack.. I.e .. cover your bases. One midfielder on defend duty or at least not full attack.. One striker formations are much harder to implement this time around too, with no support, they get isolated, to counter this, have them on a creative role with midfielders supporting him. But anyway.. this is just me spurting out random ideas. They'll help you in that area here: http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/18-Tactics-amp-Training-Discussion As this isn't the place to discuss it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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