Tutoring a model professional youngster

[Smac]

Just wanted to point out that it is very likely that the Very Ambitious (tutor 2?) player is disqualified from being labeled Professional because he has low professionality, based on the complaints about training levels.... if I got that part of your discussion right?

That's an interesting one because we already know his low temperament excludes him from being Professional, however he could also be excluded by having low professionalism. And your evidence that low professionalism leads to poor training seems to point to that pretty strongly. But mathematically there isn't anything in the profile to give a concrete range for him, even an exclusionary one.

[nonleague]

Salmeen: Driven, Level Headed

"Driven Det 20, Amb 10-20 15"

"Level Headed Con 1-14, Tem 7-20, Loy 11-20, (Spo 12-20 or Pro 13-20) 1345"

Det 20

Amb 10-20

Con 1-14

Tem 7-20

Loy 11-20

Spo 12-20* Either this

Pro 13-20* or this

Personality Cases:

Not Professional (1) Pro 1-17 and/or Tem 1-9 -- n/a

Not Perfectionist (5) Pro 1-17 and/or Amb 10-17 --n/a

Media Handling Cases:

Not Evasive (1) Pre 1-14 and/or Pro 1-14

Not Confrontational (3) Tem 8-20 and/or Spo 8-20

Not Unflappable (4) Tem 1-14 and/or Pre 1-14

Not Reserved (5) Con 6-14 and/or Pro 1-14

Unfortunately our data fits all the cases and we have no exclusions, so we get no more info out of them.

I think you're reading the cases incorrectly.

Look at the first case: "Not Professional (1) Pro 1-17 and/or Tem 1-9 -- n/a"

What we know from media handling LH is:

Pro 13-20*(possible, if it's twin isn't true)

Tem 7-20

1-17 and 13-20 overlap, so even if we could eliminate the "twin" condition to Pro, any result 13-17 would satisfy the conditions meaning that we learn nothing else from the equation. Only if we had data that excluded one side of the equation would the other side give us info.

Temperament 7-20 has overlap with Tem 1-9, so again we cannot exclude that side of the equation. If we knew for a fact that Pro was say, 15, that still wouldn't mean that Tem wasn't also in range. On the other hand if we knew that Pro was 20 then it couldn't be the exclusionary trump and therefore Tem would indeed have to be 7-9 to make the equation work.

Thanks I think I got it now lol.

So my last question would be, What type of youngsters would we not tutor? Let's say we have a Determined, media frirendly with determination 19, would there be any point in tutoring him?

Do we not train youngsters whom have a determined, resolute, professional personality?

[BiggusD]

Thanks I think I got it now lol.

So my last question would be, What type of youngsters would we not tutor? Let's say we have a Determined, media frirendly with determination 19, would there be any point in tutoring him?

Do we not train youngsters whom have a determined, resolute, professional personality?

I tutor youngsters with good personalities "on paper" if they don't develop quickly enough. That's the only variable that counts. Half a star per year.

[nonleague]

I tutor youngsters with good personalities "on paper" if they don't develop quickly enough. That's the only variable that counts. Half a star per year.

Okay but the main 3 stats we're looking out for when tutoring is Ambition, Determination and Professional right?

[BiggusD]

Okay but the main 3 stats we're looking out for when tutoring is Ambition, Determination and Professional right?

Yes. But there is the issue of the tutor and the tutee getting along as well. I don't know how that works out.

[Smac]

Thanks I think I got it now lol.

So my last question would be, What type of youngsters would we not tutor? Let's say we have a Determined, media frirendly with determination 19, would there be any point in tutoring him?

Do we not train youngsters whom have a determined, resolute, professional personality?

If you have excellent tutors almost any player can gain something from tutoring. I think most people will leave decent looking youth alone, but personally I've realized that you can learn quite a bit about them from Media Handling and if you can get some good qualities there you'll have a much better player (on paper, though nobody really knows how much these hidden stats affect things, other than consistency / important matches).

I'll draw up an example with your guy here, call him George: "Determined, media frirendly with determination 19"

Personality: Determined (19)

Determined Det 18-19, Amb 10-20 *16

Det: 19

Amb: 10-20

Con: 1-14

Tem: 7-20

Cases:

Not Temperamental (*) Tem 5-20 and/or Pro 11-20 --n/a

Not Professional (1) Pro 1-17 and/or Tem 1-9 --n/a

Not Perfectionist (6) Pro 1-17 and/or Amb 10-17 --n/a (overlap doesn't exclude because it's and/or)

Media Handling:

MF Con 1-14, Tem 7-20 12345

Det: 19

Amb: 10-20

Con: 1-14

Tem: 7-20

Cases:

Not Evasive (1) Pre 1-14 and/or Pro 1-14

Not Level-Headed (2) Loy 1-10 and/or (both Spo 1-11 & Pro 1-12)

Not Confrontational (3) Tem 8-20 and/or Spo 8-20

Not Unflappable (4) Tem 1-14 and/or Pre 1-14

Not Reserved (5) Con 6-14 and/or Pro 1-14

We learn nothing from any of the cases, unfortunately.

George:

Det: 19

Amb: 10-20

Con: 1-14

Tem: 7-20

So George has a decent temperament, decent controversy, good ambition and great determination. What about professionalism, the key stat for development? We don't know about that, so any professional-type tutor that won't do too much damage to his good stats should be considered, IMO. I'd also look for Pressure.

I'll bring in two tutors I can see in my game right now because I signed them (loaned Rory) just for tutoring and want to know their ranges: Rory Delap (Det 17, Level Headed, Resolute), and Yossi Benayoun (Det 15, Model Pro, Reserved).

Rory Delap: Det 17, Resolute, Level Headed

Personality: Resolute

Resolute Pro 15-20, Det 15-20, Spo 5-20, Pre 1-16 7 12345

Det 17

Pro 15-20

Spo 5-20

Pre 1-16

Cases: Resolute

Not Professional (1) Pro 1-17 and/or Tem 1-9

Not Ambitious (2) Amb 1-15 and/or Loy 10-20

Not Unambitious (3) Amb 6-20 and/or Loy 1-10 ** Loyalty 11-20, so Amb must be 6-20

Not Loyal (4) Loy 1-17 and/or Amb 8-20

Not Spirit/Jovial (5) Tem 1-9 and/or Pre 1-14

Media Handling: Level Headed

LH Con 1-14, Tem 7-20, Loy 11-20, (Spo 12-20 or Pro 13-20) 1345

Det 17

Pro 15-20

Spo 5-20

Pre 1-14 ***

Con 6-14 ****

Tem 7-20

Loy 11-20

Spo <12 *

Amb 6-20 **

* Since his Professionalism is 15-20 then his Sportsmanship can't be 12-20.

** See personality note above.

Cases: Level Headed

Not Evasive (1) Pre 1-14 and/or Pro 1-14 *** Pro > 15 so Pressure must be in this range 1-14

Not Confrontational (3) Tem 8-20 and/or Spo 8-20

Not Unflappable (4) Tem 1-14 and/or Pre 1-14

Not Reserved (5) Con 6-14 and/or Pro 1-14 **** Pro > 15 so Controversy must be in this range 6-14

Rory Delap: Not so great with Pressure or Sportsmanship, but very good Professionalism and decent everywhere else.

Det 17

Pro 15-20

Spo 5-20

Pre 1-14

Con 6-14

Tem 7-20

Loy 11-20

Spo 1-11

Amb 6-20

Yossi Benayoun: Det 15, Model Pro, Reserved

Personality: Model Professional

Model Professional Pro 20, Tem 10-20

Det 15

Pro 20

Temp 10-20

Media Handling: Reserved

Res Con 1-5, Tem 7-20, Loy 11-20, Pro 15-20, Pre 1-14 13

Det 15

Pro 20

Temp 10-20

Con 1-5

Loy 11-20

Pre 1-14

Cases: Media Handling - Reserved

Not Evasive (1) Pre 1-14 and/or Pro 1-14 -- Just confirms Pre 1-14

Not Confrontational (3) Tem 8-20 and/or Spo 8-20 -- n/a

Yossi Benayoun: Great professionalism and controversy scores. Good determination, loyalty, and temperament. But we don't know anything about pressure, ambition, or sportsmanship.

Det 15

Pro 20

Temp 10-20

Con 1-5

Loy 11-20

Pre 1-14

Comparing the three people: George, Delap, and Benayoun:

George: Great determination and good ambition. Decent temperament and controversy.

Det: 19

Amb: 10-20

Con: 1-14

Tem: 7-20

Rory Delap: Not so great with Pressure or Sportsmanship, but very good Professionalism and decent everywhere else.

Det 17

Pro 15-20

Spo 5-20

Pre 1-14

Con 6-14

Tem 7-20

Loy 11-20

Spo 1-11

Amb 6-20

Yossi Benayoun: Great professionalism and controversy scores. Good determination, loyalty, and temperament. But we don't know anything about pressure, ambition, or sportsmanship.

Det 15

Pro 20

Temp 10-20

Con 1-5

Loy 11-20

Pre 1-14

Summary: I'd skip using Delap even though his Determination is closer to George's. His unsporting / low-pressure personality might hurt us and his other scores hardly improve things dramatically. I'd use Benayoun though because his professionalism is 20. With his low controversy and decent scores elsewhere he is unlikely to do damage, except perhaps in "Pressure". Yes, his determination score is only 15, but that is still very good. If you could follow up tutoring from Benayoun with someone with high pressure / det / amb, that would be good (an "evasive" type, perhaps?), but the main thing is to get his professionalism up to a level where you see something in his profile about it.

I didn't realize how shoddy Delap was until doing this analysis. Going to un-loan him

[nonleague]

Thank you for this in depth analysis. If you did not have Benayoun wouldnt rory still be a good tutor for some other youths because of his high prof?

Im into my 3rd season now and have signed some promising young players so just to clarify that I actually am working it all out properly, can you take a look at this player and tell me if I have it right or not please.

Regen

Name: Pavlov

Personality: Spirited

Media: Media Friendly

Determination: 12

This is my final result for him:

Determination 12

Professional 11-14

Ambition --

Controversy 1-14

Temperament 10-14

Pressure 15-20

Loyalty --

Sporting 5-20

[Smac]

Pavlov: Yes, I got exactly those results. He looks promising, personality-wise.

Spirited Pre 15-20, Tem 10-20, Pro 11-17, Spo 1-14 14567 234

Det 12

Pre 15-20

Tem 10-14

Pro 11-14

Spo 5-14

Con 1-14

If Det 11-20 then Spo 5-20 is (5) -yes

Not Ambitious (2) Amb 1-15 and/or Loy 10-20

Not Unambitious (3) Amb 6-20 and/or Loy 1-10

Not Loyal (4) Loy 1-17 and/or Amb 8-20

MF Con 1-14, Tem 7-20 12345

Not Evasive (1) Pre 1-14 and/or Pro 1-14 -- Pre > 15 so Pro must be 1-14

Not Level-Headed (2) Loy 1-10 and/or (both Spo 1-11 & Pro 1-12)

Not Confrontational (3) Tem 8-20 and/or Spo 8-20

Not Unflappable (4) Tem 1-14 and/or Pre 1-14 -- Pre > 15 so Tem must be 1-14

Not Reserved (5) Con 6-14 and/or Pro 1-14

Edit: Yes, I'd use Rory as a tutor if I had nobody better. And I'd also use him if I could follow up with somebody with better pressure and sportsmanship stats. He'd have to be considered a good tutor generally because of those great determination and professionalism stats, just not a top top tutor. His other stats might not be that bad, but they definitely aren't great either.

[BiggusD]

A little trick to find out who's got good Ambition is to give them high win bonuses. The ambitious ones will react positively.

[nonleague]

Pavlov: Yes, I got exactly those results. He looks promising, personality-wise.

Thank you. Looks like I'm almost there, still get confused slightly when dealing with some personalities when it says either they have x or y.

A little trick to find out who's got good Ambition is to give them high win bonuses. The ambitious ones will react positively.

Will have to try that one.

[nonleague]

Would Robbie Keane be good to tutor our young Pavlov who we worked out earlier?

Pavlov

Spirited, Media Friendly

Det 12

Pre 15-20

Tem 10-14

Pro 11-14

Spo 5-14

Con 1-14

Keane

Fairly Professional

Reserved

Det 14

Pre 1-14

Tem 7-20

Pro 15-20

Spo --

Con 1-5

Loy 11-20

From what I can tell Keane is very good with Professional 15-20, Low Controversy 1-5 and good Temperament 7-20.

However, He is lacking in Pressure 1-14, Ambition 1-15 and his Loyalty I am not quite sure how that exactly works out if higher is better or not.

Pavlov has reasonable Professionalism 11-14, handles Pressure well 15-20, very good temperament 10-14.

Would Keane be good to tutor Pavlov or could there be any negative effect in doing so?

I am slightly concerned that Pavlov's ability to handle Pressure might suffer as a result as he has 15-20 whilst Keane has 1-14.

[BiggusD]

I am not even sure the ability to handle pressure can be taught by tutors...

[nonleague]

I am not even sure the ability to handle pressure can be taught by tutors...

So if I were to have Keane tutor this kid, what could the negative come from it, asides of course from the fact that they might not like one another?

[Smac]

I am not even sure the ability to handle pressure can be taught by tutors...

I'm not 100% positive, but I do know that I've tutored several players into having personalities that indicate they are now better at handling pressure than they were. They could have learned this on the pitch or through some other mechanic, perhaps. Nothing better than turning an "Outspoken, Volatile" player into "Evasive, Reserved".

Regarding Keane > Pavlov, I'd do it to get his professionalism up a bit higher, and you might be able to see if he's negatively affected through changes to his personality in regards to pressure, etc..

Loyalty is useful to keep good players at the club. Severely un-loyal players with any ambition will often be trying to move, in my experience. Useful, but not absolutely essential stat.

[nonleague]

I'm not 100% positive, but I do know that I've tutored several players into having personalities that indicate they are now better at handling pressure than they were. They could have learned this on the pitch or through some other mechanic, perhaps. Nothing better than turning an "Outspoken, Volatile" player into "Evasive, Reserved".

Regarding Keane > Pavlov, I'd do it to get his professionalism up a bit higher, and you might be able to see if he's negatively affected through changes to his personality in regards to pressure, etc..

Loyalty is useful to keep good players at the club. Severely un-loyal players with any ambition will often be trying to move, in my experience. Useful, but not absolutely essential stat.

Okay thanks for that, I will give it a go and I'll post back here what happens, although will probably take a week at the slow rate that I'm playing at .

Just a quick one Smac, I have this 18yo kid, he's not a regen, I have done his stats but I'm unsure if I have his Prof and Sporting correct. You couldn't take a quick look for me could you please, just so if I am wrong I can realize where I went wrong.

Mierzejewski

fairly determined

level headed

determination 16

I got for that....

Determination 16

Professional 1-14 13-20*

Ambition

Controversy 1-14

Temperament 7-20

Pressure 1-16

Loyalty 11-20

Sporting 5-20 12-20*

I am unsure if I am supposed to replace the prof to 13-20 and keep sporting at 5-20, or if I am supposed to replace the sporting 5-20 with 12-20 and keep prof at 1-14.

[Smac]

Mierzejewski

fairly determined

level headed

determination 16

det 16

pro 1-14

pre 1-16

Con 1-14

Tem 7-20

Loy 11-20

(Spo 12-20 or Pro 13-20)

Fairly Determined Det 15-20, Pro 1-14, Pre 1-16 3 234

Not Ambitious (2) Amb 1-15 and/or Loy 10-20

Not Loyal (3) Loy 1-17 and/or Amb 8-20

Not Spirit/Jovial (4) Tem 1-9 and/or Pre 1-14

LH Con 1-14, Tem 7-20, Loy 11-20, (Spo 12-20 or Pro 13-20) 1345

Not Evasive (1) Pre 1-14 and/or Pro 1-14

Not Confrontational (3) Tem 8-20 and/or Spo 8-20

Not Unflappable (4) Tem 1-14 and/or Pre 1-14

Not Reserved (5) Con 6-14 and/or Pro 1-14

None of the cases have any sides excluded, therefore we don't get any other info from them.

I am unsure if I am supposed to replace the prof to 13-20 and keep sporting at 5-20, or if I am supposed to replace the sporting 5-20 with 12-20 and keep prof at 1-14.

It's just either prof 13-20 (which because of our other info would be 13-14), or Spo 12-20. Since we can't exclude one we can't say which.

[nonleague]

None of the cases have any sides excluded, therefore we don't get any other info from them.

Thank you. I think I've nailed it lol.

Will let you know what happens in regards to that tutoring and what changed. I am expecting that kid who I posted right at the start of the thread to have finished being tutored shortly (how long does it take to complete?) so I will post back what happened in regards to that.

I was never bothered before about tutoring and would just go ahead and sign kids with high determination and have them be tutored by players with higher determination than them. Needless to say, I am quite interested in it now.

[Smac]

Tutoring takes 180 days unless they have a falling out, at least that is what I've seen pretty consistently. You can use the conversation history to check back when you assigned the tutor too, which can be very useful. Tutors then have a cooling down period which seems to vary a bit with perhaps 2 weeks(?) being standard.

[nonleague]

Tutoring takes 180 days unless they have a falling out, at least that is what I've seen pretty consistently. You can use the conversation history to check back when you assigned the tutor too, which can be very useful. Tutors then have a cooling down period which seems to vary a bit with perhaps 2 weeks(?) being standard.

Thanks for that! So in that case, it's just another 2 months and then I can see what exactly was affected

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I am not even sure the ability to handle pressure can be taught by tutors...

There are eight Hidden Attributes that make up a players personality,

Adaptability, Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, Professional, Sportsmanship, Temperament and Controversy

and unless something has changed recently, tutoring can affect all of them.

[roykeane7]

[/b]

Professionalism helps with the training, Ambition helps with match experience. That is what I believe at least. So Professionalism should help early on in the career in the youth league, while Ambition helps between 18-23 when playing football is the most important way of improvement. Players with high Professionalism and Ambition, a good attribute distribution and high potential are rare. As I said earlier in the thread, I have experienced having to discipline model professional players nearly every month because of red arrows all over in the progress screen. In an earlier version a friend of mine bought Phil Jones as one of the biggest prospects around but he deteriorated rapidly no matter what he did. Turned out an fmrte check showed that his Ambition was like 2 or 3 while everything else was excellent. It was evidently a random attribute, so he changed it to an acceptable level and he turned his career back on track promptly.

This is why I rate Ambition as the most important attribute for player development, but of course Professionalism needs to be decent too so that he can take heavy training without losing morale. Injury proneness must be good too, as well as Natural Fitness so that he maintains a high level of match fitness and can be trusted in tough fixture programs. Determination is as mentioned important on the pitch; one of the most important of all to play well (and there is of course the need for match experience).

If the test you mentioned was done with the AI, Professionalism would be more important because they don't give youngsters a chance in the first team so they would only develop well if highly professional. I still maintain that Ambition is more important for us humans.

So basically, the best outcome with tutoring, should be a tutor with determined personality, combined with one of these media-handling types:

Determined Det 18-19, Amb 10-20

Eva, Unf Con 1-14, Tem 15, Pre 15-20, Pro 15-20

Eva, ST, Con Con 1-14, Tem 1-2, Pre 15-20, Pro 15-20, Spo 1-7

Eva, ST Con 1-14, Tem 1-2, Pre 15-20, Pro 15-20, Spo 8-20

Eva, Vol, Con Con 1-14, Tem 3-6, Pre 15-20, Pro 15-20, Spo 1-7

Eva, Vol Con 1-14, Tem 3-6, Pre 15-20, Pro 15-20, Spo 8-20

Eva, Con Con 1-14, Tem 7, Pre 15-20, Pro 15-20, Spo 1-7

Eva, Res Con 1-5, Tem 7-14, Pre 15-20, Pro 15-20

Eva Con 6-14, Tem 7-14, Pre 15-20, Pro 15-20

Res Con 1-5, Tem 7-20, Loy 11-20, Pro 15-20, Pre 1-14

Ambition would be between 10-20 and professionalism would be between 15-20. High determination would be great for high rating in competetive matches, see StormenDKs argument:

Well it does, but indirectly. Higher Determination helps the player to secure a higher average rating, which is turn is one of the factors of what CA gain he gets from matches.

High Determination does not ensure that the player has high Ambition. You could have a player with 20 Determination, but only 2 in Ambition. BUT the Personality Type 'Determined' indicates that the player has at least 10 in Ambition.

Also be aware that the youngster's stats move towards those of the tutor. So if you have a youngster with 18 in Ambition, and get him tutored by a player with low Ambition but high Professionalism, then the youngster will most likely experience a drop in Ambition, but a rise in Professionalism.

A tutor with personalities like:

Model Citizen Pro 18-20, Det 18-20, Pre 18-20, Amb 18-20, Loy 18-20, Spo 18-20, Tem 18-20

or

Perfectionist Pro 18-20, Det 18-20, Amb 18-20, Tem 1-9

Would be awesome, but hard to find.

A tutor with one of these personalities could be great:

Model Professional Pro 20, Tem 10-20

Professional Pro 18-19, Tem 10-20

Fairly Professional Pro 15-20, Det 1-14

Resolute Pro 15-20, Det 15-20, Spo 5-20, Pre 1-16

But these personalities could be unambitious.

Very Ambitious Amb 20, Loy 1-9, Det 1-17

Amibitous Amb 16-19, Loy 1-9, Det 1-17

But these personalities could be unprofessional.

The personality guide would in some cases narrow the range within some of these attributes, but we'll never be sure exactly. High win bonuses reactions could give you an indication of ambition (is this for season competitions bonuses or contract, or both?). Teamtalk reactions also? Reactions to high trianing levels will indicate their professional attribute. Other indications?

Im problably wrong about some parts here, so let me know:)

We know competetive matches are a major factor gaining CA, but how many minutes do they have to play? 5 minutes as a sub, is that equal to a full match?

[Smac]

We know competetive matches are a major factor gaining CA, but how many minutes do they have to play? 5 minutes as a sub, is that equal to a full match?

>15 minutes so that they get a match rating.

Better match ratings > worse match ratings.

More time > less time.

[nonleague]

So even though my youth who you named 'Joe Bloggs' fairly sporting, level headed, Determination 14 is still learning from his tutor, and has another 1 month to run, his personality and media has now changed to what his tutor is, which is, Fairly Professional, reserved and determination 14.

This is what he was before:

Determination 14

Professional 1-12

Ambition 1-14

Controversy 1-14

Temperament 7-20

Pressure 1-14

Loyalty 11-14

Sporting 15-20

and this is what he is now:

Determination 14

Professional 15-20

Ambition 6-20

Controversy 1-5

Temperament 7-20

Pressure 1-14

Loyalty 11-20

Sporting 5-20

The changes that we can see is:

prof 1-12 now 15-20+

con 1-14 now 1-5+

loyal 11-20 now 15-20+

sport 15-20 now 5-20-

amb 1-14 now 6-20+

So our young 17yo 4.5 star prospect has gained Professionally, Controversy, Loyalty and Ambition, but has lost on his Sporting.

I have two points that I would like to raise. The first point being, how can his personality and media, already changed 'whilst' he is still being tutored? and secondly, where to go from here with him? I would like to now get his sporting back up, but how without affecting his Prof and controversy?

[roykeane7]

Can dirtiness (Hidden attribute) change by tutoring?

What is pressure related to? I thought that pressure would affect the way your player handle important matches, but they are two different hidden attributes, and are not related to each other. If that's the case, I find it odd.

[Smac]

The first point being, how can his personality and media, already changed 'whilst' he is still being tutored? and secondly, where to go from here with him? I would like to now get his sporting back up, but how without affecting his Prof and controversy?

Tutoring changes occur during the 180 days of tutoring, not at the end. You can track that via watching determination in the training overview for the player. Or do I not understand what you're asking?

Regarding "Sporting", do we actually know that his sporting has lowered? Let's see:

He was "level headed" and now is "reserved".

LHeaded Con 1-14, Tem 7-20, Loy 11-20, (Spo 12-20 or Pro 13-20) 1345

Reserved Con 1-5, Tem 7-20, Loy 11-20, Pro 15-20, Pre 1-14 13

Not Evasive (1) Pre 1-14 and/or Pro 1-14

Not Level-Headed (2) Loy 1-10 and/or (both Spo 1-11 & Pro 1-12)

Not Confrontational (3) Tem 8-20 and/or Spo 8-20

Not Unflappable (4) Tem 1-14 and/or Pre 1-14

Not Reserved (5) Con 6-14 and/or Pro 1-14

Notice that "Level Headed" doesn't have a clause for "Reserved", which I take to mean the "Reserved" always trumps "Level Headed". So, barring anything else we can't say one way or another that he isn't still LH under the surface. It's just that it doesn't show because clause 5 has triggered and thus LH is trumped by Reserved. Also notice in the personality machine (link) that neither of these are combined with each other so a player cannot be "Level Headed, Reserved".

For further tutoring you'd need somebody with either good Pressure or Sporting traits and strong everywhere else. These tutors are few and far between. Maybe a Paul Scholes type would work:

Det 18

Pro 20

Tem 14

Con 1-5

Pre 15-20

Evasive, Reserved, Model Pro Det 18

Model Professional Pro 20, Tem 10-20

Eva, Res Con 1-5, Tem 7-14, Pre 15-20, Pro 15-20 34

Not Confrontational (3) Tem 8-20 and/or Spo 8-20

Not Unflappable (4) Tem 1-14 and/or Pre 1-14

[Smac]

Can dirtiness (Hidden attribute) change by tutoring?

What is pressure related to? I thought that pressure would affect the way your player handle important matches, but they are two different hidden attributes, and are not related to each other. If that's the case, I find it odd.

As far as I know, no dirtiness doesn't change with tutoring. I think you might be able to raise it through disciplining your player when they get caught in the cookie jar, but I really don't know.

AFAIK, "pressure" is more broadly applicable than "important matches" in that the player won't be negatively affected by media pressure, transfer speculation, being captain(?), or those type of things. I have no information on how it actually works other than to say I have noticed low pressure players getting statements like "Chris Smalling seems to be unable to focus due to the pressure surrounding his being wanted by other clubs" during matches. How that plays out, I don't know.

[nonleague]

Tutoring changes occur during the 180 days of tutoring, not at the end. You can track that via watching determination in the training overview for the player. Or do I not understand what you're asking?

Regarding "Sporting", do we actually know that his sporting has lowered?

Thanks for the reply. True, we do not know for sure if we have lowered his 'Sporting', although with it now having a range between 5-20 as opposed to 15-20, it does stand a good chance that 'possibly' it has had a negative effect.

[Blueflash]

Is this what you're looking for guys?

[Macon]

I turned the Nocuous personality rules into a spreadsheet, if anyone's interested. I suspect that it isn't quite right for Born Leader / Leader, as these categories were missing from his original post, but I find it quicker that working everything out with pen and paper.

[roykeane7]

Oh mama:p

Nice to see they exists. Guess this will not be the only model citizen in your squad in a couple of years.

After I bought Ter Stegen (Dortmund goalkeeper/Perfectionist), four of five of mine goalkeepers are now perfectionists.

I have not discovered any model citizens in my save yet(2017). I don't know if it's possible to search for personalities.. Anyway, I've brought in a new head of youth development (HOYD), who is very close beeing a model citizen, so some of my next newgens could very much be a model citizen or close to that. If they are close, I guess it should be possible to tutoring the last part if lucky...?

[roykeane7]

I turned the Nocuous personality rules into a spreadsheet, if anyone's interested. I suspect that it isn't quite right for Born Leader / Leader, as these categories were missing from his original post, but I find it quicker that working everything out with pen and paper.

I am interested :-)

[Macon]

I am interested :-)

OK - if you PM me an email address, I'll mail it to you tonight when I get home from work.

[nonleague]

I turned the Nocuous personality rules into a spreadsheet, if anyone's interested. I suspect that it isn't quite right for Born Leader / Leader, as these categories were missing from his original post, but I find it quicker that working everything out with pen and paper.

Would also be interested to see that spreadsheet

[Blueflash]

Oh mama:p

Nice to see they exists. Guess this will not be the only model citizen in your squad in a couple of years.

After I bought Ter Stegen (Dortmund goalkeeper/Perfectionist), four of five of mine goalkeepers are now perfectionists.

I have not discovered any model citizens in my save yet(2017). I don't know if it's possible to search for personalities.. Anyway, I've brought in a new head of youth development (HOYD), who is very close beeing a model citizen, so some of my next newgens could very much be a model citizen or close to that. If they are close, I guess it should be possible to tutoring the last part if lucky...?

First time i'd ever seen it. Skimmed over this thread and saw you guys were talking about it so i was like "Hey, i have a player like that "

[nonleague]

I have a player who is 33yo, Driven, Level-Headed and has Determination of 20. Using the table chart, it says that his professionalism is somewhere between 13-20.

Now here is the thing, under the 'training' tab, the coaches comment that this particular player

'takes a very professional approach to ensuring he is in the best condition possible'

Would this mean that it's fair to say that his level of professionalism will therefore be very high, or is this linked to his 'natural fitness' which is 16.

Edit: Just had a look and all players with a high 'Natural Fitness' will say within there training that they're a fine athlete.

Could this be a message that reveals the professional attribute?

[nonleague]

Is this what you're looking for guys?

Blueflash, could you take a look under the training report for this player and see what message your coach says for him please. I'm wondering whether or not, that top pro's have a message from the trainer saying how professional they are.

[Blueflash]

Blueflash, could you take a look under the training report for this player and see what message your coach says for him please. I'm wondering whether or not, that top pro's have a message from the trainer saying how professional they are.

Sure!

Here ya go!.

[nonleague]

Sure!

Here ya go!.

Fantastic!! Thank you so much!

This means that the comment regarding his professionalism, means that his professional attribute is very high (19-20) for sure!

See, the guy I have it just says that his professionalism is between 13-20, but this comment shows it's the top end. Right, time to get him tutoring!

[Blueflash]

Fantastic!! Thank you so much!

This means that the comment regarding his professionalism, means that his professional attribute is very high (19-20) for sure!

See, the guy I have it just says that his professionalism is between 13-20, but this comment shows it's the top end. Right, time to get him tutoring!

He's certainly very professional. One of the few that actually apologizes when i fine him.

[nonleague]

He's certainly very professional. One of the few that actually apologizes when i fine him.

See, the guy in my side, his personality is 'Driven', so yes he has 20 for determination, but all I knew before was that his Professionalism was 13-20. Now I think it's safe to say 19-20

[Blueflash]

See, the guy in my side, his personality is 'Driven', so yes he has 20 for determination, but all I knew before was that his Professionalism was 13-20. Now I think it's safe to say 19-20

More like 18-20. But yep! Driven players aren't too bad, my squad is full of them, well, driven and resolute mostly.

[Arnoldzhu]

This part is unreal. Don't like to do math about that. See if there's any chance this part will change in future where it becomes more dynamic and natural. Some mental influences and chemical effect should spread through daily team interaction. And for youth team players, the manager can arrange some days once in a while to let kids meet their model star in first team and let the older experienced one teach them some kicks and moves like irl.

[Smac]

Good catch with the training information. I wonder if we could determine any further hints about player attributes and collate them into an extra-info chart of sorts. Like I mentioned regarding Chris Smalling, you can get hints from the match commentary when players are under pressure. You also might get hints in the way they respond to the media, though that only happens with your top players. Must be a few more rocks to look under...

[Smac]

This part is unreal. Don't like to do math about that. See if there's any chance this part will change in future where it becomes more dynamic and natural. Some mental influences and chemical effect should spread through daily team interaction. And for youth team players, the manager can arrange some days once in a while to let kids meet their model star in first team and let the older experienced one teach them some kicks and moves like irl.

Yeah, I'm sure it puts a lot of people off. I personally like it this way because the hidden attributes really are hidden. Most of these things you only find out about real people when they are put in difficult situations or watch them over a long period of time. I suppose it could be argued that more information could be given to the manager if they've worked with a player for X amount of time, but even then it needs to be a range rather than an exact figure of course.

[nonleague]

Good catch with the training information. I wonder if we could determine any further hints about player attributes and collate them into an extra-info chart of sorts. Like I mentioned regarding Chris Smalling, you can get hints from the match commentary when players are under pressure. You also might get hints in the way they respond to the media, though that only happens with your top players. Must be a few more rocks to look under...

Well, I would guess that a player who keeps being booked for unsporting conduct would obviously have low sporting attribute.

I wonder if the manner of how your players speak to you has any bearing upon what there professionalism might be? Example, a player who speaks in a calmly tone would be deemed to be professional as opposed to someone who speaks to you aggressively.

On a side note, what is the difference between professional and ambition stats in the way in which they accumulate CA? Someone mentioned to me earlier that they have 16-18 to be tutored professionalism and then 19-21 they go for ambition. I did not get to find out why, so just wondering what the difference is.

[Arnoldzhu]

When a regen is given determination 18, and the older experienced star player has determination 14, so when young player is tutored by him, young player's determination would decrease to maybe 16? I think maybe it's not quite interesting to me. So I said it should be more dynamic or maybe more vague. I understand the game reflects every thing in clear-cut numbers 1-20. And in future, the game should further increase obviousness or sharpness of the personality and personal playing style of players to make them more vivid and alive, and thus more interactions more conflicts and more management job to do.

[Siven]

Quick question, i think i read a long time ago that a tutor has to have a higher CA than the tutee has in order to have the option to tutor them, is that right?

I got Litmanen to tutor my young forwards/AttMids but he cant tutor a young Brazilian Ademilson i got, this is when i think remembering the above.

[BiggusD]

It is higher reputation, not CA.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

More like 18-20. But yep! Driven players aren't too bad, my squad is full of them, well, driven and resolute mostly.

His Professionalism will be 17 at the most as he would be described as "Professional" (dedicated) if it was higher than that.

Same goes for players described as "Determined" who have a Determination Attribute of 18 or 19. This is useful, because if that player's personality changes to "Professional" you can be sure that he has either 18 or 19 for Professionalism. (20 being Model Professional)

EDIT: actually, the second sentence in the second paragraph is a bit of fluff, players are described as "Professional" when reaching 18/19 professionalism anyway - as long as at least one of the other five attributes (Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, Sportsmanship, Temperament) is below 18.

[nonleague]

His Professionalism will be 17 at the most as he would be described as "Professional" (dedicated) if it was higher than that.

Same goes for players described as "Determined" who have a Determination Attribute of 18 or 19. This is useful, because if that player's personality changes to "Professional" you can be sure that he has either 18 or 19 for Professionalism. (20 being Model Professional)

EDIT: actually, the second sentence in the second paragraph is a bit of fluff, players are described as "Professional" when reaching 18/19 professionalism anyway - as long as at least one of the other five attributes (Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, Sportsmanship, Temperament) is below 18.

Interesting point you made, however, Why is it that players with Fairly Professional have a 'Professional' attribute of 15-20 given the calculation ranges? Surely on the basis that you are saying, this would mean that there Prof should be 15-16 but it does not workout this way. I think factors such as Determination etc come into play, therefore allowing a player with a Driven personality to have top professional marks.

Just for example, a 'Model Citizen' has Prof 18-20.

I refer you to this Ultimate Personality Guide: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/307808-The-Ultimate-Personality-Media-Handling-Guide