Mr Hough FM13 First Patch Tactics.

[MakaveliPT]

Of course it's not broken, all the SI members can do tactics just fine without the slightest bug! The fact that Hough and so many others who've been creating tactics since ever can't get a tactic to fully works just means they don't understand this perfect ME

[wwfan]

I don't think it's broken and i don't think it's perfect, I have struggled to make a tactic but i rely really on exploting the ME so i tip my hat to SI for possibly not making any and issues for me to exploit..... Yet.

Well said. I suggest that until (if) you manage to make an exploiting tactic, that people waiting for one might want to read the Twelve Step Guide to Playing FM13 posted in General Discussion and the main Tactical Forum. It might help temper some frustration.

[Schreiber]

It is a sad day in football manager history, when one of the best tacticians gives up... I can't blame you, only agree and thank you for trying. I really hope you will make a killer tactic once there is a patch that allows it.

SI I know you are aiming to make a realistic tactic. But I have to admid, the best games I had, was back in the day with CM, when I could take my favorite team inthe danish 2. div. and make them the best in europe, and when there was a diablo tactic that gave us midicore fans a chance in a hard game. I feel like the past couple of years have killed the fun I used to have in a manager game, it is just to hard, and maybe to realistic... just my sad five cent.

[Mr Hough]

Well said. I suggest that until (if) you manage to make an exploiting tactic, that people waiting for one might want to read the Twelve Step Guide to Playing FM13 posted in General Discussion and the main Tactical Forum. It might help temper some frustration.

Yeah i will be having a good read of that

[IMFC]

I'd argue the exact opposite.

Sorry but i play to enjoy the game and win titles.

Not to see defenders watching the ball and be super frustrated after one hour of play.

Something is broken between the game and a lot of fans. If SI don't realize that, there is a problem.

But it's out of topic, I won't develop on that.

[wwfan]

Sorry but i play to enjoy the game and win titles.

Not to see defenders watching the ball and be super frustrated after one hour of play.

Something is broken between the game and a lot of fans. If SI don't realize that, there is a problem.

But it's out of topic, I won't develop on that.

You can still do that. It just takes a perspective shift. A shakabuku if you will.

[Bennie23]

Back in the days I won the CL with FC Thun from Switserland. That was fun. This was CM. In FM I won the CL almost with Hednesford Town. I can't play FM anymore, I have 2 childeren and I don't have the time to win the CL with Go ahead Eagles from Holland for example. It's too hard. So yeah, SI got their realistic game, but for the long term, people won't play this game anymore. It's so difficult.

I think 75% of the fm gamers just want a proper tactic, plug and play. When we can't get good tactics anymore, fun is over.

It is a sad day in football manager history, when one of the best tacticians gives up... I can't blame you, only agree and thank you for trying. I really hope you will make a killer tactic once there is a patch that allows it.

SI I know you are aiming to make a realistic tactic. But I have to admid, the best games I had, was back in the day with CM, when I could take my favorite team inthe danish 2. div. and make them the best in europe, and when there was a diablo tactic that gave us midicore fans a chance in a hard game. I feel like the past couple of years have killed the fun I used to have in a manager game, it is just to hard, and maybe to realistic... just my sad five cent.

[CK ck x]

Back in the days I won the CL with FC Thun from Switserland. That was fun. This was CM. In FM I won the CL almost with Hednesford Town. I can't play FM anymore, I have 2 childeren and I don't have the time to win the CL with Go ahead Eagles from Holland for example. It's too hard. So yeah, SI got their realistic game, but for the long term, people won't play this game anymore. It's so difficult.

I think 75% of the fm gamers just want a proper tactic, plug and play. When we can't get good tactics anymore, fun is over.

same here mate, dont have time to make tactics etc, i just want to download one and win games and leagues but im afraid is not the case and this year feel i have wasted

£30 but hey ho, only a game!

[SCIAG]

Even Mr.Hough gave up to create a new tactic for 13.1.3, surely ME's still broken.

If plug and play tactics that try and exploit the M.E. do not work, then that does not mean the M.E. is broken.

[ReaLisM--]

FM13 is one of the worst unfortunately, so inconsistant and 'too realistic'

[Schreiber]

If plug and play tactics that try and exploit the M.E. do not work, then that does not mean the M.E. is broken.

Indeed it does not, it is just a very realistic ME, and that is unfortunately not what some of us want.

I just want a game where I can take a crappy team, save them from relegation, and build them up to become the best in europe, win the league with a goal difference 120-20, sell some players for a lot of millions, and buy new awesome players and get the biggest stadium in the world named after me because I am a legend.

[MakaveliPT]

What you guys seem too stuborn to understand is that people are not ignorants, nor they are blind, there's a reason why SI members is telling people to "keep it simple" and not touch sliders and what not. I wonder how SI managed to do this

"Let's make an ME that while cannot be exploited also only barely works if you don't touch anything, let's give them FMC to save time, but then lets make them spend 5 seasons figuring out a solid tactic while watching their brain dead players!"

It's kinda funny how SI defends realism but then supposedly as a manager i have the power to tell a player "hey you are gonna play as a winger and you should press this way and pass this way" which results in the winger drooling over the ball having no longer any idea of who he is or what's he supposed to be doing.

I'm sorry as i've never thought i'd say this but with SI being this arrogant in the face of so many unpleased people, i only hope that for the sake of making a game that seems only SI members are 100% happy with, SI doesn't end up getting closed in the future due to next year sales which i reckon will only be any good if people still have any faith on the "work in progress" type of phrasing, and me thinking companies made games for consumers! SI makes a quite complex game with barely any info on how the new ME works and then keep saying "it's not broken, you just don't know how to work it, but we won't tell you either, here have a few tips.. don't touch a thing!" LOL.

Sorry for the off topic Not all Hough's tactics or other tacticians were exploits tbh, the fact that nobody seems to have a solid tactic where you don't actually see defenders acting like they are having strokes is the fact that bothers people, not the fact that they don't win every time or no longer have a striker with god knows how many goals.

[wwfan]

It takes 2 minutes to make a solid tactic. Nobody who's making one is uploading one because it's so easy to do. If you read the posts I suggested, you'd be able to do it too.

[Macphisto]

It takes 2 minutes to make a solid tactic. Nobody who's making one is uploading one because it's so easy to do. If you read the posts I suggested, you'd be able to do it too.

That statement just make you sound like an elitist ass.

[wwfan]

That statement just make you sound like an elitist ass.

No. I designed the TC and knows how it and the ME works like the back of my hand. Up to you whether you choose to listen to my advice or explanations. Much more worthwhile than insulting me, I can guarantee.

[Macphisto]

It wasn't an insult. It was feedback on how your statement of "it's so easy" came across. It was like sticking your middle finger up to those who are having problems no matter how many times people read guides and such. I'm sorry if you took it as an insult.

[CK ck x]

sorry to be a pain wwfan but could u re direct me to a thread on telling me how and when to use shouts please

[wwfan]

It wasn't an insult. It was feedback on how your statement of "it's so easy" came across. It was like sticking your middle finger up to those who are having problems no matter how many times people read guides and such. I'm sorry if you took it as an insult.

I've yet to find one person who's truly embraced the guide and not seen a massive improvement. If anything, my statement is anti-elitist. I'm saying each and every one of you, as long as you understand football fundamentals, should be capable of making a functional tactic in two minutes. You don't need to rely on a few super-users to design killer tactics for you. All of you can succeed on your own merits.

[Jimmyrh94]

No. I designed the TC and knows how it and the ME works like the back of my hand. Up to you whether you choose to listen to my advice or explanations. Much more worthwhile than insulting me, I can guarantee.

I must admit that your 12 steps thread was very interesting, and it has sort of encouraged me to play the game in the way you suggest. The whole "slider addiction" thing is something I suffer from and I always look to over complicate the game.

This story will sum it up:

I've been playing the game for many years, usually downloading tactics and taking my beloved united to champions league after champions league. However, due to the fact I download it means that when a new patch comes out there is a chance that tactic falls to crap, secondly it means that I have to spend a lot of time waiting and reading these forums rather than actually playing because a new "world beater tactic" hasn't come out. I introduced my friend to fm 11 as he is really into football so i thought he might like this management game. So there I am boasting about how im getting my united team to score 150 goals a season and winnig everything and he is there simply using the bog-standard default tc tactics from the drop down list and getting his spurs side to champions league after champions league and winning premiership after premiership without really doing anything complicated. Then a new patch comes out, my super tactic doesn't work (of course leading to my frustration), he gets offered jobs in spain/italy to continue his success at spurs and I'm stuck here reading these forums and anxiously waiting for an over complicated illogical super tactic to be released. When I then ask him (my friend), how are you doing it so simply, what settings are you using that I might be able to steal? He simply says "what?!", and then goes on to explain that all he did was pick a default formation, pick attacking strategy and fluid philosophy and bobs your uncle. He didn't tweak any individual sliders, he didn't change any roles or duties, he didn't even check whether he was playing a flipping offside trap or not. He just kept it simple, perhaps not scoring 150 league goals a season with his striker getting 100 goals in all comps a season, but he stiill managed to enjoy the game more than I did.

So all in all, I think this story really demonstrates that you don't need to do anything too flashy on fm (something I haven't really learnt yet) and the story also emphasises your point on trying to get over the "slider addiction" aspect that many users suffer from. Having read your thread wwfan, i think I'm going to have a real go at just playing it simple and let my tactic get fluid before I even begin to think about tweaking anything. I must admit I am a little frustrated with this fm, so I might just have a little fun save on fm12 with an old tactic, then when i find my love for the game again I'm really going to give this simple and logical approach a go. Also, out of interest do you have a similar help thread on general training and match prep?

[Macphisto]

You should put these two sentences at the top of your 12 step guide post that's the sort of motivation people need. "I've yet to find one person who's truly embraced the guide and not seen a massive improvement." "each and every one of you, as long as you understand football fundamentals, should be capable of making a functional tactic in two minutes."

[ruudvanwarren]

James, I think we can all relate to that story! I think we're going to see an influx in downloadable tactics now that wwfan has highlighted how possible it is for everyone to make tactics by following a few simple steps! The misses is out tomorrow night...have a guess what my night consists of,ha!

wwfan, is it against forum rules for you to post tactics that you have created? What types of success have you had on FM13? Congrats on the thread by the by!

[KingEric07]

So its official then. FM13 is the last I buy. I havent time to tweak tactics as per opponent every week. Why offer FMC and advertise it as a "quicker game mode" when I have to study opponents every week. Yes, of course it is more realistic but I've bought a COMPUTER GAME. If I wanted to study tactics and counter act this that and the other then I'd take my UEFA coaching badges instead. No.

And I know the game may be more sound than FM12 or its predecessors but what pisses me off most is watching my world class centre half staring at a centre forward as he dances by him and slots the ball into the net, time after time. Full backs that don't tackle too. These folk have never seen Rafael or Sergio Ramos in action

I have maybe 2-3 hours spare time to play FM. Give me a plug and play tactic and let me rattle through a season as quickly as possible.

[Jimmyrh94]

So its official then. FM13 is the last I buy. I havent time to tweak tactics as per opponent every week. Why offer FMC and advertise it as a "quicker game mode" when I have to study opponents every week. Yes, of course it is more realistic but I've bought a COMPUTER GAME. If I wanted to study tactics and counter act this that and the other then I'd take my UEFA coaching badges instead. No.

And I know the game may be more sound than FM12 or its predecessors but what pisses me off most is watching my world class centre half staring at a centre forward as he dances by him and slots the ball into the net, time after time. Full backs that don't tackle too. These folk have never seen Rafael or Sergio Ramos in action

I have maybe 2-3 hours spare time to play FM. Give me a plug and play tactic and let me rattle through a season as quickly as possible.

Amen.

(Although my opinions in my previous post still stand - I just miss the old fm days of plug, play, space bar, win trophies, money money money, buy ronaldo/messi)

[KingEric07]

Amen.

(Although my opinions in my previous post still stand - I just miss the old fm days of plug, play, space bar, win trophies, money money money, buy ronaldo/messi)

Thankfully I play CM01/02 and FM08 more than any other version of FM right up to FM13 (I have a save on CM01/02 that is into 2100+!) and I shall return to them soon. Unfortunately FM13's Classic mode is a completely awesome feature/mode for players like me and I don't want to give it up. I only hope someone will find a plug and play tactic for me to return to it.

I have tried my own TC tactics and I can win leagues with it but I like a game where I'll have a 70-80% win ratio. Unfortunately I can't get this consistency with FM13 and therefore I'm out

[MakaveliPT]

It takes 2 minutes to make a solid tactic. Nobody who's making one is uploading one because it's so easy to do. If you read the posts I suggested, you'd be able to do it too.

Don't mean to take a go at you, as you just might be the only one who's trying to do any good out of this mess, but sure, i bet the 4-4-2 archived tactic is solid. I have a "solid" tactic, no touching the sliders, i get my wins doesn't affect the fact that players still do the most non sense acts i've ever seen on fm tbh.

Plus, i really don't see why is SI still arguing with players on this point. Really, if you guys think the ME is not an issue but the fact that the users don't understand it, then release a guide for it, because the simple fact that you have to tell users to not touch one of the things that made FM what it is (sliders) proves something is terrible wrong. I don't recall any other FM where you could actually screw up so much just by experimenting with sliders. It's kinda ridiculous releasing a piece of software and then tell the user to do not touch part of it or it won't work as it should. FM 13 due to his "issues" surely won't bring new players to the community, and SI is just seriously getting people upset, not because of the ME, but for the fact that they can't sincerely tell us "yes it has problems we reckon those and it will take sometime". All i've seen so far was this

BETA : It's a Work in progress

Release Date : It's a new ME

After the patch : You all noobs

Tbh i'm not as bothered with the ME as i'm bothered with SI's attitude, and wwfan as much as i respect and appreciate your guides which freed me a bit from the sliders, it's kind of just being on your high horse talking people down as you've designed the TC and everyone else knows nothing about football. You and your team released a piece of software that only you know how it really works since FM 13 which is NOT user friendly at all as we can see, and then instead of releasing a guide, you say "follow these instructions" doesnt work? it's your tactics. That's pretty redunctant, user is always the one to blame, even after more presented bugs than features on fm 13.

The fact that FM never needed a guide was because everything worked equal from one year to another with minor changes, and when you do a big one, everyone lol i can't even be bothered anymore. That fella is actually right is just elitism. You sold a game that nobody figures out, has no consistency and major flaws, don't blame it on the user for "touching what they were not supposed to as it can confuse the engine".

At the end of the day, it's a bloody game, if the user is doing tactical mistakes he should either have a guide to figure out why, have the ass man tell him what's wrong, something. Not expect the user taking a actually manager's course to understand the game, and even then...

[Mr Hough]

I have just got in from work and i honestly can't believe this 'debate' if you call it that is still going on, Everybody is entitled to there own opinion, If i knew mine would kick up this much fuss i'd have kept it to myself.

Just because i am struggling to make a tactic that works for all teams dosent mean you can't make a tactic to work for your team.

I am gonna have a good read of the WWFan guide tomorrow afer work and see what i can come up with just using the TC and not classic tactics, Surely it can't be that hard....

[Cleon]

sorry to be a pain wwfan but could u re direct me to a thread on telling me how and when to use shouts please

The last few replies on page one in this thread The SI Sports Centre - All You Need To Know About FM

I have just got in from work and i honestly can't believe this 'debate' if you call it that is still going on, Everybody is entitled to there own opinion, If i knew mine would kick up this much fuss i'd have kept it to myself.

Just because i am struggling to make a tactic that works for all teams dosent mean you can't make a tactic to work for your team.

I am gonna have a good read of the WWFan guide tomorrow afer work and see what i can come up with just using the TC and not classic tactics, Surely it can't be that hard....

If you find a shape you want and have issues open a thread in the main forum and I'm sure myself and others will try and help you out if you are struggling

[wwfan]

James, I think we can all relate to that story! I think we're going to see an influx in downloadable tactics now that wwfan has highlighted how possible it is for everyone to make tactics by following a few simple steps! The misses is out tomorrow night...have a guess what my night consists of,ha!

wwfan, is it against forum rules for you to post tactics that you have created? What types of success have you had on FM13? Congrats on the thread by the by!

There's very little point in posting my tactic as it is set up to take advantage of the strengths in my squad. If your squad has a different set of strengths, it won't suit.

As for success:

Season 1: Won BSN

Season 2: 4th BSP & FA Trophy Winners

Season 3: Won BSP & FA Trophy, 5th Round FA Cup

Season 4: Won L2

Season 5: Top of L1 on goal difference after 35 matches

[wwfan]

So its official then. FM13 is the last I buy. I havent time to tweak tactics as per opponent every week. Why offer FMC and advertise it as a "quicker game mode" when I have to study opponents every week. Yes, of course it is more realistic but I've bought a COMPUTER GAME. If I wanted to study tactics and counter act this that and the other then I'd take my UEFA coaching badges instead. No.

I play about 60% of my matches straight through, without changing anything other than making subs. The other 40% of matches need some thought. It's a total misconception that things take a long time.

[matty2323]

I have just got in from work and i honestly can't believe this 'debate' if you call it that is still going on, Everybody is entitled to there own opinion, If i knew mine would kick up this much fuss i'd have kept it to myself.

Just because i am struggling to make a tactic that works for all teams dosent mean you can't make a tactic to work for your team.

I am gonna have a good read of the WWFan guide tomorrow afer work and see what i can come up with just using the TC and not classic tactics, Surely it can't be that hard....

unfortunately Mr Hough, majority of people playing Football Manager have the Roman Abramovich mentality - they want results and expect them instantly. They rely on people like yourself to create plug and play tactics to get results. What they dont understand is most TC tactics aren't really plug and play, as they require more micro management, shouts and altering then the classical tactics.

[themadsheep2001]

I have just got in from work and i honestly can't believe this 'debate' if you call it that is still going on, Everybody is entitled to there own opinion, If i knew mine would kick up this much fuss i'd have kept it to myself.

Just because i am struggling to make a tactic that works for all teams dosent mean you can't make a tactic to work for your team.

I am gonna have a good read of the WWFan guide tomorrow afer work and see what i can come up with just using the TC and not classic tactics, Surely it can't be that hard....

Honestly, it really isnt that hard. 3 of the approaches i'm using now, I created back in FM10, and havent had to fundamentially change, in fact only change a couple of roles because I'm using a different side and this different players. The other two literally took 3 minutes to put together. What becomes a bit more tricky is trying to get a bit more complex, but to do that you just need to be rational and spend time watching matches in detail. When it comes to the TC the phrase "easy to learn, difficult to master" is never more apt.

[wwfan]

Don't mean to take a go at you, as you just might be the only one who's trying to do any good out of this mess, but sure, i bet the 4-4-2 archived tactic is solid. I have a "solid" tactic, no touching the sliders, i get my wins doesn't affect the fact that players still do the most non sense acts i've ever seen on fm tbh.

Plus, i really don't see why is SI still arguing with players on this point. Really, if you guys think the ME is not an issue but the fact that the users don't understand it, then release a guide for it, because the simple fact that you have to tell users to not touch one of the things that made FM what it is (sliders) proves something is terrible wrong.[/Quote]

I thought I just did?

I don't recall any other FM where you could actually screw up so much just by experimenting with sliders. It's kinda ridiculous releasing a piece of software and then tell the user to do not touch part of it or it won't work as it should. FM 13 due to his "issues" surely won't bring new players to the community, and SI is just seriously getting people upset, not because of the ME, but for the fact that they can't sincerely tell us "yes it has problems we reckon those and it will take sometime". All i've seen so far was this

BETA : It's a Work in progress

Release Date : It's a new ME

After the patch : You all noobs

Tbh i'm not as bothered with the ME as i'm bothered with SI's attitude, and wwfan as much as i respect and appreciate your guides which freed me a bit from the sliders, it's kind of just being on your high horse talking people down as you've designed the TC and everyone else knows nothing about football. You and your team released a piece of software that only you know how it really works since FM 13 which is NOT user friendly at all as we can see, and then instead of releasing a guide, you say "follow these instructions" doesnt work? it's your tactics. That's pretty redunctant, user is always the one to blame, even after more presented bugs than features on fm 13.

The fact that FM never needed a guide was because everything worked equal from one year to another with minor changes, and when you do a big one, everyone lol i can't even be bothered anymore. That fella is actually right is just elitism. You sold a game that nobody figures out, has no consistency and major flaws, don't blame it on the user for "touching what they were not supposed to as it can confuse the engine".

At the end of the day, it's a bloody game, if the user is doing tactical mistakes he should either have a guide to figure out why, have the ass man tell him what's wrong, something. Not expect the user taking a actually manager's course to understand the game, and even then...

If you think sliders are more user friendly than the TC, then I can't see how we'll ever be on the same page. The problem everyone is having is they are relying on sliders and super-users like Mr Hough who can tweak them to amazing effect. If they just forgot about them and embraced the concepts of the TC, then they'd be having a far more enjoyable time. To use the TC, you merely need to understand the basics of football. To understand sliders, you need to to have a PhD in sliderese.

Only two people I know of have that kind of knowledge. That is because they are ridiculously user unfriendly. Many people think they understand how they work, but most of what they do is guesswork and random tweaking. The TC is a piece of cake by comparison. I don't see how it is elitism or arrogance to suggest to people to leave the most confusing and abstract part of FM well alone.

I can see why my saying that "you've never understood how they worked and have always relied on ME exploits to succeed" might rankle, but that doesn't stop it being the truth. The truth can hurt. Which is why I have so much respect for Mr Hough's responses to my interjecting my thoughts into his thread. He knows he's always used exploits and he's willing to step back and consider a new way of playing. I have masses and masses of time for that. What I don't have time for is people wanting a win button.

Ultimately, I think the way I'm suggesting people play is far more rewarding and a considerably richer gaming experience than downloading somebody else's super-tactic and pressing continue. Thus far, everyone whose embraced it (over seven editions of FM) has agreed with me. Christ, even the ex super-tacticians that would have left Mr Hough in the shade in the past (Cleon, Loversleaper, rashidi, Noel Gallagher, myself!!) have totally adapted to it and given up on building super-tactics, or even wanting to. My advice is to give it a try, rather than fighting against it because it's not the way you want to play. You might find it enlightening.

[Cleon]

I remember throwing my dummy out of the pram (who'd have thought it eh?!! ) and stating I'd never use the TC and how much I hated it. I think for the first year I never used it at all and never gave it a try. Why? Nothing but stubbornness really. I was to set in my ways and I don't like change. But after giving it a chance the following year I became to understand that it really was an easier and much friendly concept. Since then I've seemed to enjoy the game a lot and actually play the game nowdays and the TC allows me to play as a very fast paced way and I fly through the seasons with little changes.

I know my way wont suit everyone and I'm not saying it should but don't do what I did and not really give the TC a chance becuse you don't want to change or can't accept another way of playing. Be open minded. It took me a few months (real time) to get used to the TC though but I'd honestly never go back to sliders now it's just to much messing around and wasting time that I don't need to, when I can achieve the exact same thing in seconds via the TC. The best thing I've ever done is stop thinking of the game as numbers from 1-20. Instead just keep it simple and think of the settings as the descriptions they give and the game becomes a lot less complex.

[CK ck x]

The last few replies on page one in this thread The SI Sports Centre - All You Need To Know About FM

cheers cleon

[KingEric07]

wwfan (off topic somewhat), I've played FM12 Handheld for iPhone. Obviously it is a basic game and I noticed on it that if I didnt play a certain player in his preferred or best suited role his performances suffered. Is FM13 like so? Rather than a simple Plug and Play tactic for every team should I know be looking to just build a base TC tactic and literally play every player as their preferred role/duty? And if another player comes on switch to his preferred role? Example: Nani starts the game as Winger Attack, gets injured. I bring on Young. Switch Winger Attack to Inside Forward Attack and so on.

[Mr Hough]

I remember throwing my dummy out of the pram (who'd have thought it eh?!! ) and stating I'd never use the TC and how much I hated it. I think for the first year I never used it at all and never gave it a try. Why? Nothing but stubbornness really. I was to set in my ways and I don't like change. But after giving it a chance the following year I became to understand that it really was an easier and much friendly concept. Since then I've seemed to enjoy the game a lot and actually play the game nowdays and the TC allows me to play as a very fast paced way and I fly through the seasons with little changes.

I know my way wont suit everyone and I'm not saying it should but don't do what I did and not really give the TC a chance because you don't want to change or can't accept another way of playing. Be open minded. It took me a few months (real time) to get used to the TC though but I'd honestly never go back to sliders now it's just to much messing around and wasting time that I don't need to, when I can achieve the exact same thing in seconds via the TC. The best thing I've ever done is stop thinking of the game as numbers from 1-20. Instead just keep it simple and think of the settings as the descriptions they give and the game becomes a lot less complex.

This is pretty much exactly how i think regarding using the TC because i am stuck in my ways. I am so used to the look and feel of classic tactics that and the way they are set out that look at something other than the classic tactic layout feels like I'm looking almost at a foreign language, It just doesn't feel right. lol

I'm gonna have a good look at the TC now and see what i can come up with regarding tactics

[themadsheep2001]

This is pretty much exactly how i think regarding using the TC because i am stuck in my ways. I am so used to the look and feel of classic tactics that and the way they are set out that look at something other than the classic tactic layout feels like I'm looking almost at a foreign language, It just doesn't feel right. lol

I'm gonna have a good look at the TC now and see what i can come up with regarding tactics

You'll enjoy it, and you'll probably create even better football than previously.

[Gorando]

I don't think it's broken and i don't think it's perfect, I have struggled to make a tactic but i rely really on exploting the ME so i tip my hat to SI for possibly not making any and issues for me to exploit..... Yet.

I have stopped playing out of frustration more than anything i still love the game and in a day or too will be back playing FM13.

I still love your tactic with 13.1.3. I have won the champions league and my domestic league twice in a row despite not having the best team.

[snakeyzyu]

I like FM12's Tactics 4-1-1-2-2 ！

[Il Grande Marcello]

i've read that most ppl are having a hard time on the latest patch with ''Feed Me More'' tactic but all i gotta say for me it still is working wonders! I've just finished season 1 and done a fantastic treble with Juventus. To be completely honest i tend to change through 3 tactics but the 1 i use most is still the Mr. Hough magic original. Also i tend to switch to the TRIDENT tactic (which there a whole thread for). I'll keep using these tactics even in season 2 and see how i fare. i'm uploading the champions lge final, the coppa italia final and the league standings and first 11 throughout the season. As for the league it was quiet an easy ride and the games i lost i fielded all the reserves and many youths so don't mind the sum of defeats.

http://www2.zippyshare.com/v/93206469/file.html - champions league final

http://www2.zippyshare.com/v/62637849/file.html - coppa italia final

http://www2.zippyshare.com/v/6866115/file.html - league final standings

http://www2.zippyshare.com/v/573946/file.html - starting 11

[Bubisch]

Anyone got any tweaks working ?

[germon]

Lets have it!.

[top man]

Lets have it!.

not going to happen, still testing

take the original tactic and tinker with it you might be surprised and make a great tactic yourself

[FuSS]

If you think sliders are more user friendly than the TC, then I can't see how we'll ever be on the same page. The problem everyone is having is they are relying on sliders and super-users like Mr Hough who can tweak them to amazing effect. If they just forgot about them and embraced the concepts of the TC, then they'd be having a far more enjoyable time. To use the TC, you merely need to understand the basics of football. To understand sliders, you need to to have a PhD in sliderese.

Only two people I know of have that kind of knowledge. That is because they are ridiculously user unfriendly. Many people think they understand how they work, but most of what they do is guesswork and random tweaking. The TC is a piece of cake by comparison. I don't see how it is elitism or arrogance to suggest to people to leave the most confusing and abstract part of FM well alone.

I can see why my saying that "you've never understood how they worked and have always relied on ME exploits to succeed" might rankle, but that doesn't stop it being the truth. The truth can hurt. Which is why I have so much respect for Mr Hough's responses to my interjecting my thoughts into his thread. He knows he's always used exploits and he's willing to step back and consider a new way of playing. I have masses and masses of time for that. What I don't have time for is people wanting a win button.

Ultimately, I think the way I'm suggesting people play is far more rewarding and a considerably richer gaming experience than downloading somebody else's super-tactic and pressing continue. Thus far, everyone whose embraced it (over seven editions of FM) has agreed with me. Christ, even the ex super-tacticians that would have left Mr Hough in the shade in the past (Cleon, Loversleaper, rashidi, Noel Gallagher, myself!!) have totally adapted to it and given up on building super-tactics, or even wanting to. My advice is to give it a try, rather than fighting against it because it's not the way you want to play. You might find it enlightening.

A point well made...although a little disappointed I didn't make the list : p

I remember throwing my dummy out of the pram (who'd have thought it eh?!! ) and stating I'd never use the TC and how much I hated it. I think for the first year I never used it at all and never gave it a try. Why? Nothing but stubbornness really. I was to set in my ways and I don't like change. But after giving it a chance the following year I became to understand that it really was an easier and much friendly concept. Since then I've seemed to enjoy the game a lot and actually play the game nowdays and the TC allows me to play as a very fast paced way and I fly through the seasons with little changes.

I know my way wont suit everyone and I'm not saying it should but don't do what I did and not really give the TC a chance becuse you don't want to change or can't accept another way of playing. Be open minded. It took me a few months (real time) to get used to the TC though but I'd honestly never go back to sliders now it's just to much messing around and wasting time that I don't need to, when I can achieve the exact same thing in seconds via the TC. The best thing I've ever done is stop thinking of the game as numbers from 1-20. Instead just keep it simple and think of the settings as the descriptions they give and the game becomes a lot less complex.

Exactly this, only I'm a year behind you.

I just wanted to say massive thanks to WWFAN & CLEON who's insightful posts in this thread inspired me to give the TC another go.

As a die hard classic tactic creator it's been a real hard push for me to adopt it...but I am now enjoying FM more than I have done in a long time, shouts seem to work much better in FM13 than FM12, and I have a real renewed sense of realism being able to quickly tell my players what changes I want them to make on the fly.

Bloody brilliant, thanks, you've restored my faith.

This is pretty much exactly how i think regarding using the TC because i am stuck in my ways. I am so used to the look and feel of classic tactics that and the way they are set out that look at something other than the classic tactic layout feels like I'm looking almost at a foreign language, It just doesn't feel right. lol

I'm gonna have a good look at the TC now and see what i can come up with regarding tactics

See my above post mate, if I can grow to love it, you can too!

[FuSS]

double post sorry

[Elhan]

In all honesty I really don't like most of the shout settings, or the default TC settings. I always start with a TC tactic, then make a set of 3-4 tweaked tactics that suit my players, for varying situations. I think of the TC as a framework, but I honestly get better results after tweaking (which does take a considerable amount of effort).

What I think a lot of people don't realise is that in FM 13 it really does pay to adapt to the situation. For example, next time you see the opposition pressing high up the pitch, with their fullbacks overlapping, switch to a more direct style and put some balls in the (now empty) space behind their fullbacks. See what happens.

Another simple example: it pays pays to control possession if you are leading instead of taking risks trying to score as much as possible. In practical terms, players with higher mentalities in a team playing a high tempo will misplace more passes, which will leave you vulnerable on the counter. Playing an extra holding player, lowering the tempo, passing range and mentalities really does make a difference. Simple examples but I really can't recall how many games these alone have won me. In a nutshell, keep your eyes open to what's actually happening on the pitch, at least against decent opposition. Just me 2 cents.

[doomdayer]

After masters of tactics such as Mr Hough , Cleo, wwfan and Fuss have said their say i can only add and agree. But since everyone seems to have an opinion these days might as well offer one up

IMHO FM13 has failed in each success. To put it simply i think they managed to do what most of us have been asking for a long time, an unexploit-able ME but to do it in the wrong way. Instead of simply giving us an AI that is capable of adapting to "plug and play" super tactics to counter the strategies employed by most of these so called super tactics, they decided to provide us an with ME that is simplified to the point of tearing eyes out.

As of right now, the most effective tactic i have used with any team [average results based] is a simple 451 with 3 box to box mids 2 wide mids a flat four at the back and 1 poacher chasing the ball, You might or might not be aware that this is a very simple formation used throughout most of the lower teams in Greece, and i suspect elsewhere in Europe that demands nothing of my players other than running a lot and passing and with the right OI i have managed to come to some great results. Of course the results are not the get reading and win the prem type, they are get reading and come in 6 type then come in 5 then come in 3rd. So a lot more realistic but it somehow fails to sattisfy.

Before this game i used to work hard on a tactic and if the tactic was brilliant enough it allowed you to overachieve tremendously. Obviously this is much harder which is nice in a way, but its only harder because it feels like the they dumbed down my own player "AI" control instead of boosting the AI's tactic making ability. Currently it just seems that if i just tell my players go out there and run i will see a mix of overachieving FB/WB's a lot of runing down the sides. Some of the worst defending choices in the world including regularly droping dead like a fish to dive header the ball away while on defense [which looks ridiculous as an animation] Or just siting there with the ball in the area pondering philosophical thoughts. Midfielders that are generally not tightly marked and a striker that might or might not get a chance to score entirely depending on whether the defenders ate their wheaties in the morning.

I have gone through over 30 tactics toying with sliders and the results are pretty much the same, nothing really changes that drastically from sliders anymore, it feels like we had these sharp tools at our disposal and now we are only allowed this blunt bulky thing with hard caps placed on either side to keep us in the straight and narrow. Its not that the engine is unexploitable, it just looks like they nerfed our ability to reach those specialized instructions to allow us to exploit it, at the same time nerfing our ability to make great tactics with it. The engine itself is simple if you just want average or decent results, through any defensive counterattacking formation in the TC [451/442/352] High Closing down, some man marking, some zonal marking [up Front and Wings] Tight marking if you have to, and you will be ok no matter what else. But there is no spark there is no brilliance there, and its getting tiring. Dont get me wrong, i love this game its just has lost some of that lust that we got when we looked inside the guts of the machine and found out how to make it tick, now all i can/have to do is through together a formation in the TC and buy better players.

[wwfan]

Nice post, but I think slightly misjudged.

What has happened is that the base logic informing AI tactics has improved to the extent that it is solid against pretty much anything. Couple this to the new collision detection/avoidance system, which prevents the central super-striker exploit, and the new ball physics, which prevents the corner exploit, and you'll see what is going on. Unless a user can use the sliders to design a more logical system than the AI employs, the user will struggle. What we are seeing is that super-tactic designers cannot and have never been able to do this. They always relied on a couple of ME exploits and set up a system to channel the ball into areas from which they could consistently take advantage. While some of these designers (as Mr Hough explains) were very aware of this, everybody that relied on downloading their tactics will now be at a total loss.

The TC allows users to easily match the AI. With a bit of experience, you can start to overmatch the AI, as you are less restricted by rules than it is. Soon, you'll be winning titles again. However, you do need to accept you'll be going on a learning curve and you'll struggle for a while. What we strongly believe is that, if you embrace this curve, two things will happen. Firstly, playing FM will become a far more rewarding experience for you. Secondly, you'll develop a better understanding of real life football tactics and appreciate the beautiful game even more than you might now. If we didn't think the rewards were excellent, we wouldn't be pushing so hard.

[doomdayer]

Nice post, but I think slightly misjudged.

What has happened is that the base logic informing AI tactics has improved to the extent that it is solid against pretty much anything. Couple this to the new collision detection/avoidance system, which prevents the central super-striker exploit, and the new ball physics, which prevents the corner exploit, and you'll see what is going on. Unless a user can use the sliders to design a more logical system than the AI employs, the user will struggle. What we are seeing is that super-tactic designers cannot and have never been able to do this. They always relied on a couple of ME exploits and set up a system to channel the ball into areas from which they could consistently take advantage. While some of these designers (as Mr Hough explains) were very aware of this, everybody that relied on downloading their tactics will now be at a total loss.

The TC allows users to easily match the AI. With a bit of experience, you can start to overmatch the AI, as you are less restricted by rules than it is. Soon, you'll be winning titles again. However, you do need to accept you'll be going on a learning curve and you'll struggle for a while. What we strongly believe is that, if you embrace this curve, two things will happen. Firstly, playing FM will become a far more rewarding experience for you. Secondly, you'll develop a better understanding of real life football tactics and appreciate the beautiful game even more than you might now. If we didn't think the rewards were excellent, we wouldn't be pushing so hard.

Oh how i wish your words come true. I am the first to agree that the lack of exploits is a welcome sight, i am still unsure how the silly behavior of AI counts as anything mentioned above, i can list events and events One thing i will say is that it is still a great game worthy of playing.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Oh how i wish your words come true. I am the first to agree that the lack of exploits is a welcome sight, i am still unsure how the silly behavior of AI counts as anything mentioned above, i can list events and events One thing i will say is that it is still a great game worthy of playing.

Agreed, I'm also not going to touch the FM = real football tactics issue, that's a no go anyway. But anyway even with the TC its still not right, it's not feeling as natural as before and I've been using the TC since 12 anyway.

Has anyone got insight as to whether jobs change hand often or is it a bug? I loaded up FM 13 to do an unemployed game as I bored of winning everything with Wigan -_-;; and I noticed that clubs would replace managers with backroom staff and then replace the backroom staff with new managers but NONE of them got sacked. It was just a straight swap that popped up in the news feed. I paused when I noticed it as you don't get the opportunity to apply for a job at those clubs so does anyone know if thats a feature thats working as intended or is it a bug? O_o