lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hi there. I am having real trouble winning a Premier League game. I have chosen Arsenal (the team I support) and I have tried a variety of tactics, having allowed my team to get used to them first. I have played 34 games, 26 Premier League, and only won 2 of those Premier League games. I have also struggled in the Champions League, although I can easily overcome lower-league opposition. I played FM12 for a long time with Aston Villa and went on to win many accolades including 4 Premier League titles within 6 years of being in charge. I have appointed a Director of Football (Klaus Allofs) if that would make a difference to my teams performance. Is there any way to improve my tactics so I start winning games? Screenshots: Shouts I used to start a game: Starting line-up: Team instructions: If you need any more screenshots I'll happily provide them. Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braundjoh Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm no master of this by any means, but until someone better than me replies, I'd like to make a couple of points. You've got your team set up to play narrow, yet want to clear the ball to the flanks. The formation and width of the team mean there won't really be anyone there, or so I'd think. I may be wrong. You're playing a very high defensive line, but also asking them to drop deeper. These are conflicting ideas, or so I think. This could lead to chances. I'd also say some of your sliders are a bit extreme, particularly tempo. I'm unsure, but I think that would mean they take little time to play passes (which is what you want), play more long balls and clearances and take shots quickly (half chances, snapshots). It's too high for me, and would see you lose the ball. Again, this is just what I think, I may have things wrong. Also, too much creative freedom can be a bad thing. Not necessarily, but I've always kept it down a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm no master of this by any means, but until someone better than me replies, I'd like to make a couple of points. You've got your team set up to play narrow, yet want to clear the ball to the flanks. The formation and width of the team mean there won't really be anyone there, or so I'd think. I may be wrong. You're playing a very high defensive line, but also asking them to drop deeper. These are conflicting ideas, or so I think. This could lead to chances. I'd also say some of your sliders are a bit extreme, particularly tempo. I'm unsure, but I think that would mean they take little time to play passes (which is what you want), play more long balls and clearances and take shots quickly (half chances, snapshots). It's too high for me, and would see you lose the ball. Again, this is just what I think, I may have things wrong. Also, too much creative freedom can be a bad thing. Not necessarily, but I've always kept it down a bit. Thanks very much, I will try changing these Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 I just got a 0-0 draw against Schalke. It was a much more convincing performance defensively. Next I play Shrewsbury away, normally I have been beating lower league opposition but not too convincingly, I will see how I preform. Thanks again for your help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braundjoh Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 That's fine As I said, hopefully someone can come along and give you some better advice, but hopefully that can be a starter point for keeping things solid and maybe picking up some points! Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The fact that you are overriding the team sliders mean that the some shouts will not be able to affect them. In particular, you are playing very high up and 'drop deeper' will not affect this. You are conceding a lot of space behind your defence as well as out wide while also forcing your players through the middle. I imagine that the opposition defends deep and narrow before hitting long balls forward into the acres of space that you are giving up. You need to defend and attack across more of the pitch. You need to create more space by playing deeper - this will also give you a more protection - as well as wider and varying your passing to incorporate the wings. Try also switching to default marking because otherwise, during the important transitional phase, your attacking players will not be in space but rather too close to an opposition defender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champfan10 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ok here's what Id do:- Player Roles:-I'd have Vermalaen as a centre back stopper to fill the gap betweent defence and midfield with Koscielny/Mertesaker as cover. Put your fullbacks to wingback supports of your not using winger. I'd play Arteta as a deep lying playmaker on defensive. Push the AMCL & AMCR to move into the channels. Play the man up top as an Advanced forward or poacher. Team instructions Play deeper maybe on the first notch of push up.Take the tempo down to slow, your asking them to rush things. Play wider and focus passing as mixed. Take target man off as well. It might be worth trying to play games on control but I know the board want you to play attacking football. These are only my opinions but I think they will help you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 The fact that you are overriding the team sliders mean that the some shouts will not be able to affect them. In particular, you are playing very high up and 'drop deeper' will not affect this. You are conceding a lot of space behind your defence as well as out wide while also forcing your players through the middle. I imagine that the opposition defends deep and narrow before hitting long balls forward into the acres of space that you are giving up. You need to defend and attack across more of the pitch. You need to create more space by playing deeper - this will also give you a more protection - as well as wider and varying your passing to incorporate the wings. Try also switching to default marking because otherwise, during the important transitional phase, your attacking players will not be in space but rather too close to an opposition defender. The other things I've edited as suggest by Braundjoh, but I will edit the marking now and hopefully it will have good effect Thank you very much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ok here's what Id do:-Player Roles:-I'd have Vermalaen as a centre back stopper to fill the gap betweent defence and midfield with Koscielny/Mertesaker as cover. Put your fullbacks to wingback supports of your not using winger. I'd play Arteta as a deep lying playmaker on defensive. Push the AMCL & AMCR to move into the channels. Play the man up top as an Advanced forward or poacher. Team instructions Play deeper maybe on the first notch of push up.Take the tempo down to slow, your asking them to rush things. Play wider and focus passing as mixed. Take target man off as well. It might be worth trying to play games on control but I know the board want you to play attacking football. These are only my opinions but I think they will help you! I have changed all the things not already suggested Thanks. Also would you recommend me changing the wide men from Inside Forward to something else or is that fine? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I would recommend that you stop overriding the team instructions (remove the ticks on the team instruction screen) and remove all the shouts (set to none) because it is confusing when starting out. Shouts, effectively, are used to adjust the way the team plays fiddling with the sliders in the background. If you want to see an example of this then check the slider before activating the shout and then check the sliders after; a good example would be the defensive line when "Push higher up" or "Drop deeper". They affect not only the team screen but the players specific sliders as well. However, overriding the sliders tells the game that you want the sliders to stay that way no matter what shout you use. When you know how your team plays with the "out of the box" settings then start adding shouts to counter your opponent's threats. For example, drop deep against pacy striker or push up against slow strikers, look for overlap against narrow teams, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ok so I tried all of these suggestions on a new save and they were fine over pre-season, then I start the season and my first game is away to Swansea. This is really ruining the game for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 How about sticking your match setting to Full Highlights and watch a game? Thats the best way of finding out why you tactics are not working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Although I am dominating stats-wise I still can't seem to win the games I am using Lewandowski up front but I tend to sub him between 65-75 minutes for Podolski/Walcott if Lewan is not scoring (which he hasn't been) but Podolski/Walcott don't seem to be able to find the net either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 How about sticking your match setting to Full Highlights and watch a game? Thats the best way of finding out why you tactics are not working. I will try that tomorrow I'm off to bed now. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 You think thats bad try this one (I'm managing liverpool) Capital One Cup 4th Rnd Luckly that was a one off bad day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon army 06 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hi there.I am having real trouble winning a Premier League game. I have chosen Arsenal (the team I support) and I have tried a variety of tactics, having allowed my team to get used to them first. I have played 34 games, 26 Premier League, and only won 2 of those Premier League games. I have also struggled in the Champions League, although I can easily overcome lower-league opposition. I played FM12 for a long time with Aston Villa and went on to win many accolades including 4 Premier League titles within 6 years of being in charge. I have appointed a Director of Football (Klaus Allofs) if that would make a difference to my teams performance. Is there any way to improve my tactics so I start winning games? Screenshots: Shouts I used to start a game: Starting line-up: Team instructions: If you need any more screenshots I'll happily provide them. Thanks in advance To many shouts to start the game seemns the problem, start wiuth none there only really meant to be there. To use during a game, also your team plays to narrow. Go abit wider Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambie\'s Lovechild Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 You think thats bad try this one (I'm managing liverpool)Capital One Cup 4th Rnd Luckly that was a one off bad day I've noticed that Liverpool are severely limited in the new game (probably to match them being very limited IRL as well). They constantly lose to me, to the AI, and finish in the bottom half of the table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 You're using way too many shouts and many are conflicting with each other. For example you're telling your team to play shorter passing yet use "clear ball to flanks" which makes them all pass longer. Then the team has absolutely no width with 5 central midfielders, low width slider, inside forwards in the wider positions of the AMCs, and fullbacks instead of wingbacks. "Hassle opponents" on top of "Press more" will also make your team behave like headless chickens leaving spaces all over the pitch for your opposition to exploit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Gallagher Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I see you have Arteta set as a ball winning midfielder? I find this a bit puzzling as it's not a role he is known for. Arteta is more of a playmaker. Also, I think Arshavin and Eisfeld are too narrow to be set as inside forwards. One of the instructions given to an inside forward is 'cut inside' and, as they already occupy a central position, they won't be as effective as they could be. Also, Cazorla is set as playmaker but he has few options ahead of him to pass to as the majority of the team are playing behind him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The words 'disaster', 'happen' and 'waiting' spring to mind. To perform an emergency fix, do the following: 1: Don't use the slider overrides. 2: Kill the Use Playmaker and Targetman option 3: Don't Focus Through Middle 4: Don't use any pre-game shouts 5: Switch to a Control strategy 6: Make one Fb a WB/Attack 7: Give the AMC on the opposing flank to the WB/A an Attack duty 8: Give the AMC Playmaker a Support Duty 9: If the weather and pitch conditions are good, use the 'retain possession' & 'pass into space' shouts to mimic Arsenal's style 10: Play a few games and see what difference that makes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Os Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Interestin wwfan, What does killing the TM and playmaker instruction do? More importantly why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 D To many shouts to start the game seemns the problem, start wiuth none there only really meant to be there.To use during a game, also your team plays to narrow.Go abit widerYou shouts seem to be fundamentally the root of your problem, seems like a desperate attempt to get things moving.You have an attacking mentality, which has:a high DLine, high closing down and relatively high CF, you opt to start with deep and then whilst you have shorter passing set as a default you build you attacks via direct passing caused by the clear balls to flank instruction. I may sound hard so don't take this the wrong way. . Now your settings suggest you plan to play narrow as well? And while you clear ball down the flanks you you have opted to tick play through middle which Nullify that shout. You have tempo ticked yet you use shouts that depend on tempo, you've opted for man marking but have also opted to hassle opponents which increase cd and set tight marking up. , You tell your team to play deep but you have ticked DLine as well, that won't work, you want your team to overlap but the get ball forward instruction is erm. 'Hey boot that ball up to the flanks', and then you tell your players up top to hold the ball for? A full back, how is he gona get up?Don't take this the wrong way, I'm surprised you're still the manager, your tactics are a train wreck. . Untick the team instruction. If you gonna use shouts do it right.Then select, play narrow, play through middle and overlaps. Untick man marking as well. Use OI to close down their keeper, that way the AI punts the ball up. You can opt to use tight marking on our midfielders but really only need two of the, to have it. When the game starts check the other teams formation if you are playing anything using wings set the FBs to be closed down and tight mark and wrong foot their playmaker in the middle. . And to the person who uploaded the Liverpool match stat sheet 11-17 shots, and look at your Long shots, that's a heckuva lot, just looking at them suggests you didn't make enough chances in the box, also verified by the lack of any CCC. You may have dominated the match but the opposition had the better chances Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAFC Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Reading the above, it strikes that the key is to create more clear cut chances as despite the clear lead in terms of shots for Liverpool and Arsenal, there were not that many clear cut chances. The conflicting instructions are an issue, no doubt, but how do we set the team up to make more clean cut chances? I don't know the answer yet, sorry :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizbaII Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 If you are giving up 5 goals to Swansea, you have a defensive problem. I am not going to go into details about your tactic, because I think your biggest problem is simply that you have too many men going forward. I recommend not telling so many players to go forward. Just because it's Arsenal doesn't mean you can do whatever. First, figure out how to have a good defense. Then figure out how to have a good offense. Also, be aware that you have to tweak your tactic slightly for every opponent depending on how they play. So what do I mean specifically? Have your fullbacks stay back. Having your DMs stay back. Watch the match on full. You will have to watch dozens (and dozens) of matches on full to really understand how to have a stable defense. Analyze how the goals are being scored. Figure out if you can send someone forward without creating a defensive weakness. For example, which second man will cover if your fullback goes up? And which third man will cover the second man's space? Play around with your defensive line. Is it too deep? Not deep enough? Will your DMs be on the same line as your fullback, or slightly up? Will your fullbacks be on the same line as your centerbacks, or slightly higher up? Figure out those things first--it may take a while. And never forget that you can try a different formation which brings more defensive security. Only then do you need to worry about things like tempo or shouts (by the way, don't use shouts when you are experimenting with fundamental changes in your tactic). My tip about defense: whether you have set a player to zonal or marking has a significant impact on your defensive strength. Always analyze that if a goal is scored (assuming your defensive line is at an appropriate level for the opponent you are playing). After that it gets a bit more complicated. I know I rambled. I can only hope it was helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Interestin wwfan, What does killing the TM and playmaker instruction do? More importantly why? They work fine when you know what you doing. The OP doesn't. Hence, strip everything back to the simplest settings and start again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Thank you everyone for your help I have taken everything on board, made the necessary changes and I am about to take on Newcastle at St James' Park. I'll see how it goes Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champfan10 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Thank you everyone for your help I have taken everything on board, made the necessary changes and I am about to take on Newcastle at St James' Park. I'll see how it goes Thanks again. Remember it will take a while for your players to adjust to a tactic, give them time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Both of their goals came from set pieces where my team appeared to be zonally marking. So I will change that and hopefully keep winning games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyasashi Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I don't see anybody asking but is your team actually trained into the position? How do you manage your (pre-match)-training? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Getting really bored of this now :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champfan10 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hold a team meeting saying that you dont want there heads to drop. What experience have you set your manager as? If you want an easier game setting him as an ex international will help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Can you post a screenie of how your tactic looks like now after your changes? I haven't played FM13 yet but I'm suspicious from what I pick up from bits and pieces here and there, that having wingers is still a must, I hope that's not the real underlying problem as it should be possible to play with a narrow 4-2-3-1, if set right. Your initial tactic definitely was very far from set right though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordelmo1 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Stop overriding the "defensive line", "width", "tempo", "time wasting", "focus passing" instructions. You're overcomplicating everything. The shouts won't work if those boxes are checked. On top of that using any of those settings to the maximum or minimum like you're doing is pure suicide. Defensive line on the deepest setting means your team will stay cornered in your area. Tempo to the slowest means they will take AGES to pass the ball and will never move the ball quickly enough to exploit any spaces. Combine those two and you'll have your team passing the ball around very slowly within your own area - the last thing any manager wants. The formation itself and the roles seem fine to me, I played in a very similar way in FM12 with relative success. Just uncheck all those boxes and refrain from using the shouts and things should improve a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 A lot of people on the thread are giving you the same advice, stop messing with the sliders on the team setups,by ticking the boxes you are just telling the computer: Hey I want to play super deep all the time, with my erm very attacking tactic. Untick playmaker untick everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Christ on a bike! Press more with the deepest defensive line possible! An object lesson in how to lose matches. As rashidi says, stop ticking check boxes!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I think the OP is trying the approach of mixing the TC+shouts and the classic way of making tactics without understanding how either of them works. If you know what you're doing, ticking boxes and tweaking is perfectly fine, it can enhance your performance a lot. However, if you don't, you end up mimicking things you see in other, usually plug-and-play tactics, and putting them into the mix with TC and shouts, making a complete mess in the process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
axehan1 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Erm,why are you looking to play the offside trap with your d-line set to the deepest?I dont mean to be rude but there is no point posting a thread looking for advice if you are going to completely ignore it and then moan that you want to chuck it in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Ed Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 This is the funniest post ive seen on the forums in a long long time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamsDefined Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Stop changing things and read the manual. Even better, go to this thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/325677-Forum-Rules-FAQ-s-and-Important-Links-PLEASE-READ-BEFORE-POSTING and read every link in that entire thing (especially the ones mentioned in posts 3 and 4). You obviously don't understand how the tactics/match engine work (which is fine by the way - everyone starts somewhere), and you won't get anywhere until you put some time into it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Gallagher Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 No offence intended to the OP but no wonder he's struggling with a setup like that! There is absolutely no sense at all in asking the team to play an attacking game with the deepest defensive line possible. It makes me wonder just how many people out there are playing this way when they're criticising the match engine? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamsDefined Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 It makes me wonder just how many people out there are playing this way when they're criticising the match engine? Quiiiiiiiite a few. Although to be fair it's not something you can pick up and have even the remotest chance of understanding. Personally think one of the biggest failings of SI and FM is the lack of proper documentation/help/tutorials (this years tutes are a step in the right direction but nowhere near detailed enough) around the match engine and tactics. There are no super tactics or even certain things that generally work, each game needs to be approached as if new, and that's probably why this version is copping so much criticism (bugs aside). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 There are no super tactics or even certain things that generally work, each game needs to be approached as if new, and that's probably why this version is copping so much criticism (bugs aside). There are lots of things that don't just generally, but always, work. I've not changed by fundamental tactical philosophy since FM06. I do the same things now as I did then. I just don't have to spend ages fiddling with every slider as the TC does it all for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Agree with wwfan, I have been away for almost 4 years from the game..the last version I really played was FM2008, working on FM2009 was my swansong. I havent really played FM2009,10,11 only 12 and that too was for like one month. Every single notion, theoretical or otherwise has all been grounded in logic, my way of playing is still the same. Nothing has changed. I do know exactly how I want my players to play and I get them to do what i want. I doubt this game needs a new approach. If it did I'd be the one asking for help. Nah its still the same game under the hood. Based on a logical system of play. As long as you dont defy any illogical mumbo jumbo you should be fine. Or I could be "bugged", PaulC and wwfan may have dumped a virus in my machine that lets them play the game thinking that its all my work as well.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamsDefined Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 There are lots of things that don't just generally, but always, work. I've not changed by fundamental tactical philosophy since FM06. I do the same things now as I did then. I just don't have to spend ages fiddling with every slider as the TC does it all for me. I meant ME exploits. Maybe I didn't say it correctly, but I was getting at the fact that tactics need to be based on sound principles, and the opposition formation/style has to be at least considered for each game. And by 'game' I meant individual football matches in FM, not versions of FM. Maybe my Aussie English has let me down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon army 06 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Getting really bored of this now :/ Well learn how to work better with tactics mate, your first one you were on about was weird. Also train them on attacking movement. Post up how you set your current tactic up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon army 06 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Just saw this no wonder your getting ripped apart, don't play more direct with that tactic, the other teams will just pick your midfield off.. Also you have roaming on set that off and play a shorter passing game. put your defence higher up if your going to play like that. Put your temp up abit higher to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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