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Neil Brock

*Official* Football Manager 2013 Constructive non-ME Feedback Thread

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I might even agree with the rest of it :D but the inference was there and the facts are as I stated.

Thank you.

You must understand that being an adult with a brain. I find it quite offending when ppl point stuff out of context and ignore the rest - so to avoid frustration and anger posts, some reckonasation(spelling?) of the problem and not this childish pointing fingers.

Like I said something is very very good and something is very very bad hence feedback.

This I consider genuine adult communication and discussion - again thank you.

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Anybody playing on notebook?

Control Panel \ System and Security \ Power Options - what do you mark? Here I always let my in balanced (recommended by HP), has more low and high. Will I be put on improving the processing of high fm? And you risk damaging the computer into something?

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Couple of questions..

1. Training. Assumed I had left it to my Assistant but two or three players are apparently unhappy with their workload. Does he not sort that? Never really bothered with training TBH.

2. Slight oddity left over from 12. It happened a few times a season. After a tactical change sometimes in match the title bar just keeps flashing "tactical change" or whatever is the wording for that. You may then get a highlight but if not it just keeps flashing up. It really judders the flow and the next match it's usually fine. Anyone else notice it?

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Just 2 observations

1.) Bought steven dafour from Porto into the Chelsea team and then find him cuptied for the League club but he is available for the FA cup?

2.) For quite a number of times I have seen the opposition team play all the way into the 6 yard box and then for some reason pass the ball out to the wing again when it would been better and smarter to score.

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obseravtions, Inderect freekicks are scored 90% of the time.

taking 60+ mintues of passing around 8 opposition defenders before scoring, then they score from thier next chance. getting rather tiresome

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I created a new post for this earlier today. Might be one for the bugs form. Maybe here will do not sure. Picture to back it up.

Basically i told Xavi to become a coach when he retires. he said he would make himself available now which i said was great. Despite not accepting the contract he goes ahead and pays for himself to get a better qualification. Only i noticed this says his reputation is unknown. Since he is still a player under a playing only contract shouldn't his reputation be worldwide. Also he's an international footballer so should in theory still have Continential reputation anyways as a coach.

unknownxavi.png

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Keepers sure do love saving the ball directly into the path of attacking players. The amount of times they save a shot hit straight at them back into the corridor is ridiculous. It's like they have no technique to try and save it as close to the byline as possible.

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Yeah I've noticed that players favour their 'weaker' foot.

that's been a problem for years. It's especially annoying with inside forwards, who do not only shoot with their wrong foot, but also constantly run to the byline and cross the ball behind the net with their wrong foot..

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Can you please inform us a date for the update. I want to play fm 2013 this weekend.

Thank you

As per absolutely always, it won't be announced until it is ready, and it won't be ready until it is ready. FM13 still works you know. Any concept it is 'unplayable' is absolutely in your head, even if one accepts it isn't perfect.

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As per absolutely always, it won't be announced until it is ready, and it won't be ready until it is ready. FM13 still works you know. Any concept it is 'unplayable' is absolutely in your head, even if one accepts it isn't perfect.

Two lines, one rebuke, and zero answers to his question.

To answer your question, afaik, it will be released next week at the latest.

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Two lines, one rebuke, and zero answers to his question.

To answer your question, afaik, it will be released next week at the latest.

There is no afayk. It will be released when it is released.

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Two lines, one rebuke, and zero answers to his question.

To answer your question, afaik, it will be released next week at the latest.

Dont make up dates, all you will do is cause more outrage when someone inevitably thinks your right.

The patch will be out when its out, and not a minute sooner.

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To the people who are pressuring SI to release this update try and relax. The game is still very good - if a little frustrating at times. You really do need to put the work in to succeed, this isn't to everyones taste.

The match engine needs to be tested properly in the next few days or weeks to iron out 'bugs' or problems and to release a patch which will keep people happy. You'll find almost every game forum has a bunch of people who say "gamebreaking bugs" and "unplayable", there was a demo and also a beta released, so if people are using those words now - DID you not play the demo? if you didn't like the game don't buy it.

Every year the words "worst FM" ever are used until people realise how to play it and use the tactics properly. It's no coincidence this year is any different. In terms of my two pence, the game has some flaws especially in terms of wingers and crossing, it is a little frustrating that they do not take on the full back or at least try when under instruction to do so. I'd like to see this changed, and the pattern of play can be predictable.

The depth of the game is amazing, but we shouldn't be relying on the likes of WWfan to understand the game, SI should perhaps write a future manual to help people along. It really would be a god send, I miss the days of an in-depth manual to understand everything.

Even with tutorials I find them impeding as a pose to helpful.

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PaulC has said it might be as early as next week... There were no definite dates...

When it's ready it will be announced on here.

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Paul definitely did not say it will be out next week at the latest, SI dont give exact dates except for the game release date.

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Having bashed the ME with every word under the sun as much as the next person I think I'll have to swallow a slice of humble pie & admit most of the problems I was getting was down to ineffective tactics on my behalf.

Having spent 4 seasons with FC Halifax, I was getting the usual errors - Dominating games & losing, extreme inconsistency, the elusive "winger to winger" goals etc. But now having tinkered a little bit with closing down & man marking in certain areas, it's improved my team & performances by a mile.

Despite not running away with the league, I've been on a 12 & 15 game unbeaten run this season which I thought a few weeks ago would be absolutely impossible & lie comfortably in 3rd. Occasionally I get the disappointing 1-0 loss at home to a poor team but due to the fact I've been winning / drawing games which I have deserved to pick up points in, it doesn't feel as bad nor do I get frustrated & angry over a freak result.

For the people who still slate the ME & FM13 as the worst game ever, believe me I was "one of you" - But putting time in & making competent tactics YOU WILL see a turn around.

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OK, this is the latest. We appreciate that there are some genuine ME issues that affect some users more than others and we are working hard on a ME update with those issues being amongst the highest priorities.

However changing stuff in the ME always has knock ons, and so far we have found this to be the case hence no update yet. It wont be ready this week but we are aiming towards next week. Obviously there are no guarantees as we will not be pressured into releasing something we arent sure about. So fingers crossed.

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Having bashed the ME with every word under the sun as much as the next person I think I'll have to swallow a slice of humble pie & admit most of the problems I was getting was down to ineffective tactics on my behalf.

Having spent 4 seasons with FC Halifax, I was getting the usual errors - Dominating games & losing, extreme inconsistency, the elusive "winger to winger" goals etc. But now having tinkered a little bit with closing down & man marking in certain areas, it's improved my team & performances by a mile.

Despite not running away with the league, I've been on a 12 & 15 game unbeaten run this season which I thought a few weeks ago would be absolutely impossible & lie comfortably in 3rd. Occasionally I get the disappointing 1-0 loss at home to a poor team but due to the fact I've been winning / drawing games which I have deserved to pick up points in, it doesn't feel as bad nor do I get frustrated & angry over a freak result.

For the people who still slate the ME & FM13 as the worst game ever, believe me I was "one of you" - But putting time in & making competent tactics YOU WILL see a turn around.

And this kind of post is the exact reason why we will not be rushed on this!

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To the people who are pressuring SI to release this update try and relax. The game is still very good - if a little frustrating at times. You really do need to put the work in to succeed, this isn't to everyones taste.

The match engine needs to be tested properly in the next few days or weeks to iron out 'bugs' or problems and to release a patch which will keep people happy. You'll find almost every game forum has a bunch of people who say "gamebreaking bugs" and "unplayable", there was a demo and also a beta released, so if people are using those words now - DID you not play the demo? if you didn't like the game don't buy it.

Every year the words "worst FM" ever are used until people realise how to play it and use the tactics properly. It's no coincidence this year is any different. In terms of my two pence, the game has some flaws especially in terms of wingers and crossing, it is a little frustrating that they do not take on the full back or at least try when under instruction to do so. I'd like to see this changed, and the pattern of play can be predictable.

The depth of the game is amazing, but we shouldn't be relying on the likes of WWfan to understand the game, SI should perhaps write a future manual to help people along. It really would be a god send, I miss the days of an in-depth manual to understand everything.

Even with tutorials I find them impeding as a pose to helpful.

I use classic tactics and have always used that. I then set the sliders according to my players and the opposition, and i adjust accordingly during the match. But when the changes i make doesnt do anything different, then the game, for me becomes unplayable. That some people still can play and enjoy the game, good for you!

I believe SI will fix this, they always do, i am just really disappointed that critical stuff like this isnt picked up earlier

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Dont rush it paul, only let us have it when you guys are 100% ready what you have changed has worked. Its nowhere near as bad as some make out, dont let the hysteria worry you guys :)

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OK, this is the latest. We appreciate that there are some genuine ME issues that affect some users more than others and we are working hard on a ME update with those issues being amongst the highest priorities.

However changing stuff in the ME always has knock ons, and so far we have found this to be the case hence no update yet. It wont be ready this week but we are aiming towards next week. Obviously there are no guarantees as we will not be pressured into releasing something we arent sure about. So fingers crossed.

If you are releasing anything I think I speak for the majority and say I'd rather wait two more weeks and get something that is tested and effective rather than a rushed release that is papering over cracks. (I don't think there is a lot wrong with the ME anyway and I can happily play it as it is. But if you think you can make it even more natural then super) congratulations on producing a great game and your customer care and feedback is first class. Well done to everyone at si for making football manager such an enjoyable experience every year. Compared to EA sports you guys are godlike

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And this kind of post is the exact reason why we will not be rushed on this!

I'm shocked. Who cares about a 12 game winning streak, I dont play to have a 12 game winning streak, i play to have realistic football simulation, and right now the ME is screwing that totally.

So if i keep playing and tweaking and trying, my wingers can suddenly cross? and not kick it behind the line? my defenders can mark and tackle? no more stupid back passes and passes in 1v1 goal situation.

from all of the people i didnt think you would say this PaulC

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Thank you SI for rejuvenating the series with FM13. As a customer from the very beginning, the Amiga days, I felt at FM10 I had reached a bit of a plateau, struggling to adapt to the 3D aspect introduced a year earlier. It's still a big change even now for those who grew up pretending to be sick, to get a day off school to play the game through written commentary and flashing bars!

But with the promise of further evolvement I decided to download the FM13 demo and days later with pleasure I made a full purchase. You have done another exceptional job and I am very grateful for the teams hard word, enthusiasm and determination. Furthermore the greatest credit should be given for your dedication and passion to work tirelessly with your public, freely communicating and making tweaks and adjustments until February probably.

Some people on here don't realise what they've got. You know, if you're focused upon imperfections within the game, no doubt you will find some and have a much less enjoyable experience. But if you can appreciate the advancements, laugh and enjoy the PLAYING you will get so much more from it. By the way I'm s**t so far, I'm blunt up top and crap at the back, but hey that's football.

Thanks SI.

This always has been a football GAME and we all are aware of this. We could still enjoy with current condition of the game, but if there's too much complains about 3d ME or in-game bugs, there must be wrong things, right?

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I'm shocked. Who cares about a 12 game winning streak, I dont play to have a 12 game winning streak, i play to have realistic football simulation, and right now the ME is screwing that totally.

So if i keep playing and tweaking and trying, my wingers can suddenly cross? and not kick it behind the line? my defenders can mark and tackle? no more stupid back passes and passes in 1v1 goal situation.

from all of the people i didnt think you would say this PaulC

Did you read the post he had quoted?

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I'm shocked. Who cares about a 12 game winning streak, I dont play to have a 12 game winning streak, i play to have realistic football simulation, and right now the ME is screwing that totally.

So if i keep playing and tweaking and trying, my wingers can suddenly cross? and not kick it behind the line? my defenders can mark and tackle? no more stupid back passes and passes in 1v1 goal situation.

from all of the people i didnt think you would say this PaulC

Agreed watch my post about major bugs not only about ME but also financial HUGE bugs. I agree tactics are more complex and very well made this year and I love it , but dont neglect the bugs which a pretty gamebreaking atm.

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Agreed watch my post about major bugs not only about ME but also financial HUGE bugs. I agree tactics are more complex and very well made this year and I love it , but dont neglect the bugs which a pretty gamebreaking atm.

No-one is neglecting any bugs, just please raise them in the correct place so we can review them, the bugs forum - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/291

Thanks.

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please how do i get the fm13 pre-release Activation Code tried downloading on steam

There is no pre-release beta available now as the full game has been released. Thanks.

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DLarcs : Having bashed the ME with every word under the sun as much as the next person I think I'll have to swallow a slice of humble pie & admit most of the problems I was getting was down to ineffective tactics on my behalf.

Having spent 4 seasons with FC Halifax, I was getting the usual errors - Dominating games & losing, extreme inconsistency, the elusive "winger to winger" goals etc. But now having tinkered a little bit with closing down & man marking in certain areas, it's improved my team & performances by a mile.

Despite not running away with the league, I've been on a 12 & 15 game unbeaten run this season which I thought a few weeks ago would be absolutely impossible & lie comfortably in 3rd. Occasionally I get the disappointing 1-0 loss at home to a poor team but due to the fact I've been winning / drawing games which I have deserved to pick up points in, it doesn't feel as bad nor do I get frustrated & angry over a freak result.

For the people who still slate the ME & FM13 as the worst game ever, believe me I was "one of you" - But putting time in & making competent tactics YOU WILL see a turn around.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Top Post DLarcs

A lot of people in this thread should take note

ME is far from perfect, but a reasoned and intelligent look at your tactics will reward you with a real life results from the ME

Cheers PaulC and Team, I will echo the sentiment from the Majority, take your time.

167 hours played so far, well on its way to being my most played version of FM

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One little error on Portuguese League:

DxTuD.jpg

Sporting Lisbon was 4th, and not 3rd in 2012. The 3rd one was Braga. ;)

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For the people who still slate the ME & FM13 as the worst game ever, believe me I was "one of you" - But putting time in & making competent tactics YOU WILL see a turn around.

This is a great post and a welcome dose of humility.

It can be an enormously frustrating game, and whilst there are bugs which affect the flow of the game, they are not showstoppers and are generally exceptions rather than the rule.

I can understand peoples' frustration as I was the same, as was DLarcs, as it appears are several others.

For people whose problems persist, it is well worth visiting the Tactics & Training forum to see the problems people are having and overcoming with appropriate guidance (too many long shots, loads of possession but no clear cut chances etc.)

These threads all contain a variety of responses offering potential solutions, but above all, they encourage you to step back and think about what you are trying to achieve, and whether the way you are trying to achieve it "works" in FM13.

I'm historically crap with tactics, but feel that FM13 has already improved that track record. It is easy to say "the game is broken", it is harder to consider the possibility that your interpretation of tactics may be flawed, and that others may have ideas on how to help you.

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Right now my team is oscillating between games where i dominate and win 6-0... and other games where for no reason the team can't score and loose the game by some stupid mistake from the defence or the goalkeeper.

At this point, i think my tactic is a good one, it as logic options and in truth i think the only reason i'm loosing some games is not because of the tactic... but because of some bugs/issues from the ME.

So, untill the new patch... no more tweaking in the tactic. :)

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Literally had it with FM. Had 5 careers and every single one has resulted in being in the relegation zone. What a load of rubbish, played the game for 11 years and this is the worst one.

* I lose to average teams who are overpowered

* I lose to higher rated teams even when they're in the bottom three - obviously because their team is overpowered against mine

* No way of motivating players, they don't respond

* I control majority of game with possession, more shots and on target yet still lose

Literally can't play it anymore.

Here's a valuable piece of advice I've learnt recently. DON'T tinker with the tactics. Go to the Tactics Creator, create a basic balanced 4-4-2. Don't change ANY sliders for any of the team instructions or the player instructions. Leave everything as it is from the creator. Play a few games and see how you get on. I was on a 6/7 game losing streak. Deleted all my tactics. Created a bog-standard 4-4-2 and didn't touch anything. I went on a 6 game winning streak ending the season in 5th place with Parma.

Trust me. The tactics don't like to be tinkered with this year, and it seems the AI will punish you for telling your WM to push up more, or your DLP to be more direct. The second you change any of this, the AI will exploit and punish you, despite the oppositions managers ratings for tactical knowledge etc.

As per absolutely always, it won't be announced until it is ready, and it won't be ready until it is ready. FM13 still works you know. Any concept it is 'unplayable' is absolutely in your head, even if one accepts it isn't perfect.

If, as it is suspected, this tax issue is a bug, and it's possible to lose £100m in tax a year, when you shouldn't, which in turns takes away a budget you've worked hard to get, which in turn forces you to sell your players, which in turn places you further down the league than you should be, then in my opinion, it is unplayable.

Being financially crippled due to a bug, and being forced into selling all your best players is a show stopper.

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I too moaned about the ME and maybe my 6-3 thrashing of Man City last night was a tad unrealistic (I'm playing as Arsenal so 7-5 would be more like it) , but I can back up what a few others here have said. I spent an entire evening tweaking my tactics and training last weekend, fine tuning basically and now the matches seem much more realistic.

In some ways it was frustrating to go through that learning curve, especially when I thought the ME was broken, but in the end it's actually made the game more interesting.

Like my tactics, the ME only needs a few tweaks and SI are working on it. For those who think FM13 is unplayable, perhaps you need to go on the internet and see what PC football games were like before you were born. I'm old enough to have played CM2, FM13 is amazing by comparison even with a few bugs.

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Right now my team is oscillating between games where i dominate and win 6-0... and other games where for no reason the team can't score and loose the game by some stupid mistake from the defence or the goalkeeper.

Yes, because that never happens in real life. The good teams simply win every single week.

Here, I seem to remember Barcelona having 90% possession, and 24 shots on goal, only to lose at Parkhead thanks to a, you guessed it, 'stupid mistake' by Xavi. Maybe the Parkhead match engine was broken too.

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Neil do you know if the tax thing is being looked at? Is there a possible error or are we wrong with what we think?

It's something we're looking into - we're aware it's not particularly clear in game which is also causing some confusion but we're looking investigating to make sure there's nothing wrong in there. Thanks.

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It's something we're looking into - we're aware it's not particularly clear in game which is also causing some confusion but we're looking investigating to make sure there's nothing wrong in there. Thanks.

Cheers bud much appreciated.

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Yes, because that never happens in real life. The good teams simply win every single week.

Here, I seem to remember Barcelona having 90% possession, and 24 shots on goal, only to lose at Parkhead thanks to a, you guessed it, 'stupid mistake' by Xavi. Maybe the Parkhead match engine was broken too.

That one result doesn't imply "oscillating" - it implies a "blip".

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I don't get what the problem is either.

Star rating is one above excellent rating and for me it displays it correctly as "Star rating for the senior team" in this context of course star rating is not referring to the stars of the player but to being a "star of the team" player.

There is no problem, someone was describing their interpretation of what the stars represent, I mentioned there used to be a popup description of what they actually represent. (don't have FM13 yet)

I only mentioned the 5 star Star rating because it amused me. :)

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I truly feel thin match engine has the capability to be great. However the GK errors & defensive errors can ruin a good session.

Example as linked in the video. One of my midfielders decides to moonwalk away from danger during the defensive phase, this allows silva an open chance to receive the pass. Then to make it worse my CB & GK watch as he runs round them and slots the ball into the gaping goal. When i meat watch, they actually slow down as if he wasn't there.

Tactics dont stop a professional CB tackling or closing down a player through on goal in his own box, neither does it make a goalie stop reacting.

Please SI i have faith these issues will be fixed. I lost this game 3-2, granted it was a game i didn't expect to win. However imagine playing 5-6 seasons & building a team to get to the Champions league final/Deciding league match and an error like this decides the game. Replaying the game is hollow & you would feel cheated after all those seasons invested in the game. Like i said tactics dont turn pro's into vegetables

[video=youtube;ym_dWGAMtqU]

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And this kind of post is the exact reason why we will not be rushed on this!

Oh, come on. Don't be swayed by that guy. Just because he's a tinker.

Anybody who knows anything about football can watch this engine in action and know it has faults far beyond our means to fix, by simply 'tinkering' with a few tactics here and there.

His wingers are turning around and passing back just like the rest of ours. And there's nothing he can do about it.

His fullbacks haven't blocked a cross in ages. And there's nothing he can do about it.

The ball in his game bounces off pavement and glides on ice just like it does in everyone elses game.

And his fallen players are glitching just like mine.

If you stick a sloppy product in front of someone for long enough, eventually they just accept it. In fact, if they peer into their computer monitors long enough, instead of going outside for some fresh air, you can pretty much brainwash the whole lot of them into believing that FM 2013 is a masterpiece.

But I won't play this. Not until it's ready. Take as long as needed, until the game resembles a football match.

And no, you don't need to listen to me. Enough people have spoken. We've read enough posts. The game clearly has issues that need addressing.

It's good to hear that you're working hard to fix them, as most developers these days would skip town right about now.

Cut and run. Hide in a cave. Leave the village idiot in charge.

But not you guys. Give you credit for that.

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The problem with this game is that people are too RESULT ORIENTED. If they lose, they blame the ME too much and if the win they forgive too much. But this is wrong approach, the game should not be about results, it should always be about REALISTIC EXPERIENCE. As said by someone before, I do not care about winning 12 games in a row or losing too often. I care about realism. Right now the game is perfectly playable, but is it realistic? In my eyes it is not. Someone said: "Tweak tactics and will be more real." Iam sorry, but if this is true than it is seriously wrong. Even If I use the most dumb tactics ever, the football should still be the same, or no? Or if I switch from 433 to 4231 my players will suddenly start using their brains? The ball will suddenly start behaving like a ball instead of puck? Iam sorry, but those of you who say- "It was my tactics, guys, the game is great now" have fallen into the trap of result oriented judgement, you forgive all those silly things in the game because you win.

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Yes, because that never happens in real life. The good teams simply win every single week.

Here, I seem to remember Barcelona having 90% possession, and 24 shots on goal, only to lose at Parkhead thanks to a, you guessed it, 'stupid mistake' by Xavi. Maybe the Parkhead match engine was broken too.

You miss the point!

If my team is playing well, if is dominating the game, if when i loose is because of stupid defensive mistakes or my goalkeeper not catching a back pass from my defender... then... what the point of tweaking the tactic?

I'm scoring goals from CCC's that my team is creating, i'm having 55%, 60% sometimes 70% possession so i must be doing something right.

Now, if i loose games because my goalkeeper decides to dive the left side when the ball goes to is right side... if my two central defenders decide to run away from the ball leaving the opponent foward free... well that, imo, is not because of tactics.

I'm not blaming the ME. I think it's a good one... with lots of potential... and i think that even at this point it already better than ME from FM12 is many areas. But sometimes we must stop and think... and at this point i feel that any changes i make in my tactic is trying to take advantage of ME issues... rather attempting to play in a logic way.

this is why i think, theres no need, at this point, to change my tactic.

[video=youtube;ym_dWGAMtqU]

This video from Osmium illustrate what i'm talking about. This type of things are not related with your tactics. So, when you come to a point where the goals you are concending are like that ones... theres no point in teawking your tactic.

You better just wait for the new patch and see if this thing are fixed. And untill then... keep playing the game :)

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I had a look at the training module and there's something in its design that I truly can't understand (do you know when you look at screen and scream: "WHY?").

Ok so, you can have individual training right? And you can select a role from the Tactic Creator or an individual attribute, right?

Well that's wrong not right.....eheheh.

First of all: let's assume I use classic/old tactic UI (so sliders), what's the meaning of that role selection in the training? Answer is: that's basically just a set of attributes, a selected/predetermined group of that. But then why am I forced to select that or ONE single attribute?

Isn't more logic for the user to simply have up to 5 attributes (or whatever max number you decide) to focus, and the more attributes I have the less effective/focus the individual training is?

Anyhow as a temporary fix or while you think about it, when you select the individual training for a player in the "team" training screen, it would be better if I know which attributes are linked to each role in that screen. If I miss something in the UI, sorry everyone.

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