*Official* Football Manager 2013 Constructive non-ME Feedback Thread

[ReggaeBwoy]

When is the next database update out?

[randomopening]

Nice try PaulC. But instead of that i think is better for you guys just admit this FM 13 ME is a fail/disaster. Saying that the only thing you will get is more disappointment for the customers.

Say what you want but for a lot of people ME 12.2.2 is much better than this year (maybe for some real reason)

I hope your words do not mean that ME will not change much...

What rubbish. The ME is miles better, for once i am enjoying watching a game. For all you whingers, i can get my players to press, i can get them to stop taking long shots. the best thing i think us the variety of goals scored and chances made.

also this is the most dedicated team in the whole industry, they care and work hard. stop petty whining and LEARN how to play

[Mintah]

What rubbish. The ME is miles better, for once i am enjoying watching a game. For all you whingers, i can get my players to press, i can get them to stop taking long shots. the best thing i think us the variety of goals scored and chances made.

also this is the most dedicated team in the whole industry, they care and work hard. stop petty whining and LEARN how to play

Couldn't have said it better myself. It behooves everyone who is having trouble with the ME to have some perspective and humility, take the advice being offered, and give it an honest shot.

[FixTheMatchEngine]

I first started playing back in 2003 and have bought, and played religiously, each version since. I can't lie, I've had some fallings out with the game before. Once when I forgot to renew Jermaine Defoes contract after he scored goals in a season for me at Arsenal and he ended up leaving. Another when I lost an entire save (9 seasons played) because it crashed whilst saving. Never before though have I stopped playing because the game simply feels unplayable.

For me, the game is just too random. I spent hours over the weekend (25 of them) getting through a season and setting up my team for season two. I work very hard on tactics and getting in good players on a budget such as Fulhams. I got Anderson, Guillermo Burdisso, Kevin Gameiro and Vladimir Weiss. All players who are probably worthy of playing for a team with a higher reputation than Fulham. Regardless of how familiar the team are with my formations or how I adjust my tactics, the outcome can be ridiculous - win 1-0 away at Chelsea, lose 5-1 to Burnley at home, conceed 3 goals within 20 minutes at home to Aston Villa. In older versions, even if I have an amazing team, you will still lose to lesser teams but you can usually understand why - poor tactics, poor morale (or they werent bothered) or missing key players. Maybe the weather had something to do with it. No matter how long I sit tweaking the game now the outcome is just too random to predict which makes me think all the background effort you put in is useless. I've gone back and re-played games again and again with different tactics and different teamtalks but the random nature of the match engine still throws out some massive anomalies. I can take losing to Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, City... hell just about most teams in the Premier League. I am Fulham after all. What I can't take is losing to a league 2 side in the Carling Cup with a full squad, full familiarity and full morale or dominating a game with 20+ shots and losing to a goal from a winger near the corner flag. Add to this the countless number of efforts my wingers like to have from odd places, the goalkeeper going AWOL, my forwards (Berbatov, so not a bad player) going missing all season no matter what role I give him or conceeding 4 goals in a game all from corners... theres no patter to the game now and thats what makes it so unlikable for me.

I haven't started the game since the weekend and won't be doing so until something changes with the match engine. For the first time ever I truly dislike the game and it kills me to say it.

[BiggusD]

Seriously? Have you ever read Jonathan Wilson? Or watched continental football?

No and yes. Are you really saying that it is fine that relegation candidates or clubs from lower leagues force top teams to abandon their attacking style at home in order to defend a lead towards the end of a match they have controlled from the beginning? I mean, does this mean that the reason I get to attack and put pressure on bottom half teams with Real Madrid is because they let me, so when they decide to send people forward towards the end in the hope of getting a goal or two they succeed in doing this because they don't let me attack freely anymore?

So far, as far as I can tell, everything else but the ME is a 10/10 in this game, but the ME is worse than FM10 was before patches. Most of the time, I watch my midfielders turn their backs to the goal at 25 meters out or so and do nothing while -one- opponent barges him in the back - even though there are 3-4 perfectly viable options for an easy pass (and several other opponents nearby watching). That is just one of a dozen serious problems with this game (lack of movement and team effort). I am considering taking this entire evening doing the work that is needed to show you picture evidence of the above problem as well as the most serious one; how the wrong two players become the ones chasing the ball. This is what I believe causes most of the counter-attack goals that people complain about, as well as disjointed play, confusion and randomness in general play.

However, when all this is said, I replaced the entire Salisbury squad by the beginning of the second season (three transfer windows) with foreigners. It is now November and things are starting to gel (I didn't expect team gelling to begin with). As a result, I lowered Defensive Line to click 14 (last of Normal) and set my FRL's to AMRL positions and experienced no difference in the pressing effort and offensive threat of the wingers. Rather the opposite - I got more movement and more cohesion. So the question is - how severe have you made team gelling, culture shock and language problems in FM13 compared to FM12?

Is it at all possible that most people buy and sell so many players out of old habit that all the problems they experience that you do not (evidently) can be caused by one issue; team gelling?

[DaveGLeeds]

Suggestion: The ability to change sliders/player instructions at half time.

I have a player who is slamming long shots in like a beast in the first half - can't tell him to stop?

Unless I'm missing something, this isn't realistic.

[WizbaII]

Suggestion: The ability to change sliders/player instructions at half time.

I have a player who is slamming long shots in like a beast in the first half - can't tell him to stop?

Unless I'm missing something, this isn't realistic.

Yes, you can. hover over the top part of the match display, click on the down tab next to "Make a Substitution", click on "Advanced Tactics", go to the "Player" Menu that is between Team and Set Pieces, click on "Show Instructions", click on a player position on the roster who's instructions you'd like to change, check the box on the left of "Long Shots", move the bar to the left for "Rarely". If the player has a Player Preferred Move (PPM) for Shooting from Distance, however, this won't have much of an effect on the player's long shots frequency. You can check the PPMs of a player by click on the player's name and going to the "Information" Sub-menu near the top-right corner of the screen.

[Oenone87]

Terminology. Okay, this is minor, but why is the Man of the Match called 'Player of the Match'? Because girls play too, I'm guessing? And the other is "Shutout" - What? Clean sheet! Come on!

Thats all though. And every now and again players running for a ball will both back off about a metre each then both try again, its weird.

[DaveGLeeds]

Yes, you can. hover over the top part of the match display, click on the down tab next to "Make a Substitution", click on "Advanced Tactics", go to the "Player" Menu that is between Team and Set Pieces, click on "Show Instructions", click on a player position on the roster who's instructions you'd like to change, check the box on the left of "Long Shots", move the bar to the left for "Rarely". If the player has a Player Preferred Move (PPM) for Shooting from Distance, however, this won't have much of an effect on the player's long shots frequency. You can check the PPMs of a player by click on the player's name and going to the "Information" Sub-menu near the top-right corner of the screen.

Cheers.

Just seemed odd that you can't do it from team or player instructions from within the tactics tab AT half time. Seems a bit backwards to only be able to do it while the match is running.

[wwfan]

No and yes. Are you really saying that it is fine that relegation candidates or clubs from lower leagues force top teams to abandon their attacking style at home in order to defend a lead towards the end of a match they have controlled from the beginning? I mean, does this mean that the reason I get to attack and put pressure on bottom half teams with Real Madrid is because they let me, so when they decide to send people forward towards the end in the hope of getting a goal or two they succeed in doing this because they don't let me attack freely anymore?

I don't think you need to defend, but I doubt the logic of continuing to go flat out when the game should be won. If you are attacking and they are attacking, then the game is going to be wide open. If they have nothing to lose and your players are nervously holding onto a slim lead, then why shouldn't they have a few good chances?

I lowered Defensive Line to click 14 (last of Normal) and set my FRL's to AMRL positions and experienced no difference in the pressing effort and offensive threat of the wingers. Rather the opposite - I got more movement and more cohesion. So the question is - how severe have you made team gelling, culture shock and language problems in FM13 compared to FM12?

Here lies the problem. I don't know what click 14 means without context. It might well have seriously firmed up your system in relation to the other settings you are using. Those settings might be causing masses of the problems you are experiencing. Unless I know you've used the sliders (tools) to build a logical system (tactic), then I haven't got a clue if you are experiencing bad gelling or bad tactical settings. Even if the settings worked in the previous ME, it doesn't follow that they adhere to its internal logic. As already discussed, ME busting tactics often don't adhere to its internal logic. If a tactic doesn't, there's absolutely no guarantee it will work at all when the ME is updated. If it does, then the update won't affect it at all.

[kizofieva]

Terminology. Okay, this is minor, but why is the Man of the Match called 'Player of the Match'? Because girls play too, I'm guessing? And the other is "Shutout" - What? Clean sheet! Come on!

1. Apparently "Man of the Match" is being copyrighted. It was discussed earlier in the thread. Yes, it's ridiculous, but potential lawsuits are serious business.

2. Are you sure you have your language set to English UK and not English US? I'm pretty sure I have Clean Sheet rather than Shutout.

[Os]

No and yes. Are you really saying that it is fine that relegation candidates or clubs from lower leagues force top teams to abandon their attacking style at home in order to defend a lead towards the end of a match they have controlled from the beginning? I mean, does this mean that the reason I get to attack and put pressure on bottom half teams with Real Madrid is because they let me, so when they decide to send people forward towards the end in the hope of getting a goal or two they succeed in doing this because they don't let me attack freely anymore?

So far, as far as I can tell, everything else but the ME is a 10/10 in this game, but the ME is worse than FM10 was before patches. Most of the time, I watch my midfielders turn their backs to the goal at 25 meters out or so and do nothing while -one- opponent barges him in the back - even though there are 3-4 perfectly viable options for an easy pass (and several other opponents nearby watching). That is just one of a dozen serious problems with this game (lack of movement and team effort). I am considering taking this entire evening doing the work that is needed to show you picture evidence of the above problem as well as the most serious one; how the wrong two players become the ones chasing the ball. This is what I believe causes most of the counter-attack goals that people complain about, as well as disjointed play, confusion and randomness in general play.

However, when all this is said, I replaced the entire Salisbury squad by the beginning of the second season (three transfer windows) with foreigners. It is now November and things are starting to gel (I didn't expect team gelling to begin with). As a result, I lowered Defensive Line to click 14 (last of Normal) and set my FRL's to AMRL positions and experienced no difference in the pressing effort and offensive threat of the wingers. Rather the opposite - I got more movement and more cohesion. So the question is - how severe have you made team gelling, culture shock and language problems in FM13 compared to FM12?

Is it at all possible that most people buy and sell so many players out of old habit that all the problems they experience that you do not (evidently) can be caused by one issue; team gelling?

I am really shocked that a poster I've seen on here and the tactics section of this forum for a while now is jumping on the whingers bandwagon. You have lost some of my respect now, players like you should know better. Yes New manager, team gelling is important. You replace your whole squad within 1 season and then complain that it takes time for them to click, you my friend are a joker. Also I have no problem attacking my home games and even a few away, so your first point is just plain wrong. Put your algorithms away and try and think more about how to get the best out of your players, a bit more Arry redknapp and a bit less AVB.

[CityAndColour]

Terminology. Okay, this is minor, but why is the Man of the Match called 'Player of the Match'? Because girls play too, I'm guessing? And the other is "Shutout" - What? Clean sheet! Come on!

Go into 'preferences' and change the language from English (US) to just English.

[Preveza]

Im happy SI havent rushed in releasing a patch with ME changes

Lets have faith SI will get it right. The ME can only get better

We need to remember its basically a brand new ME so the only way is forward.

[DaveGLeeds]

What's the deal with your backroom staff giving you incorrect info?

Just been told not to replace a player taking penalties with one who has lower penalties, composure, finishing and decision making?

[Herbert Fandel]

Can we please get clarification on whether or not these issues are being looked in to or if SI is happy with the ME as it is currently? The response to the majority of ME complaints has been disheartening to say the least... they seem pretty happy with it.

Come on now, play fair! SI have said multiple multiple times that updates are coming. Personally I would expect the ME is going to be being evaluated permanently for the next few months, with updates coming out at any point the team feel it is appropriate. If you had read through the forum, or notice the 'update released' threads, I am sure you wouldn't have made your comment.

[Bababui]

I am really shocked that a poster I've seen on here and the tactics section of this forum for a while now is jumping on the whingers bandwagon. You have lost some of my respect now, players like you should know better. Yes New manager, team gelling is important. You replace your whole squad within 1 season and then complain that it takes time for them to click, you my friend are a joker. Also I have no problem attacking my home games and even a few away, so your first point is just plain wrong. Put your algorithms away and try and think more about how to get the best out of your players, a bit more Arry redknapp and a bit less AVB.

Sooo..he isnt allowed to form his own opinion? He must adopt the SI company line or lose respect? Thats not helpful for the game to develop to its fullest extent IMO.

[Herbert Fandel]

Ok, slightly unusual complaint but it is annoying me a lot. From the fact something this small is annoying me a lot, you can infer I am otherwise very happy with the game.

Why is the text around 'Hamilton' grey instead of white. Celtic are the same, and I presume all other white teams. Also, my when my St. Johnstone team are wearing their lovely sky blue away kit, the background is a horrible metalically silvery blue. I even went into the editor to make the colour of their kit whiter, but to no avail I know it is only trivial, but why does the game make this part of the screen metalic? Is it supposed to represent a certain leading sports broadcaster or something? I just want it to be WHITE!

Did the frivolous nature of my complaint make people think I was joking? I wasn't joking! This is my single biggest complaint in FM13

[WizbaII]

Cheers.

Just seemed odd that you can't do it from team or player instructions from within the tactics tab AT half time. Seems a bit backwards to only be able to do it while the match is running.

Really? I haven't noticed that.

[Welshace]

Did the frivolous nature of my complaint make people think I was joking? I wasn't joking! This is my single biggest complaint in FM13

Lol, if this is the worst complaint from you Herbert, SI can't be doing too bad

But to be serious for a second, can you not change the colours in the editor?

[Herbert Fandel]

Lol, if this is the worst complaint from you Herbert, SI can't be doing too bad

But to be serious for a second, can you not change the colours in the editor?

No I don't think so, Hamilton are in the game as Red and White, Celtic are in the game as Green and white, and as I said, I even changed the colour of St. Johnstone's away kit in the editor to a lighter and 100% less metallicy shade of sky blue, but it comes out the same on match days. My assumption, and only an assumption, is that the default skin adds some kind of metallic texture to team colours for the scoreboard, perhaps to emulate certain tv broadcasters.

Having typed all that out I realise I should perhaps be asking in the skinning forum and not GD....sorry

[Welshace]

Yeah you might be right about the match day metallic thing. .

As it happens... I quite like it. But each to their own.

Well, it's feedback of sorts Herbert, and only a small gripe, it can be here

[KingJason13]

6) Another ME problem is when my wingers or sometimes striker decides to run to the byline, then follow it in to the nearest post, and attempt an impossible shot. Even though there are passes possible (even crosses). It's not that it happens, it's that it happens too often.

^^^This happens to me about 70% of the time.

[BiggusD]

I don't think you need to defend, but I doubt the logic of continuing to go flat out when the game should be won. If you are attacking and they are attacking, then the game is going to be wide open. If they have nothing to lose and your players are nervously holding onto a slim lead, then why shouldn't they have a few good chances?

Here lies the problem. I don't know what click 14 means without context. It might well have seriously firmed up your system in relation to the other settings you are using. Those settings might be causing masses of the problems you are experiencing. Unless I know you've used the sliders (tools) to build a logical system (tactic), then I haven't got a clue if you are experiencing bad gelling or bad tactical settings. Even if the settings worked in the previous ME, it doesn't follow that they adhere to its internal logic. As already discussed, ME busting tactics often don't adhere to its internal logic. If a tactic doesn't, there's absolutely no guarantee it will work at all when the ME is updated. If it does, then the update won't affect it at all.

Oh I quickly abandoned the old tactic we have discussed at length before It had no attacking force any longer, which is fine. By your words just a month ago (I think), it wasn't only me holding 5-6 people back at all times while attacking with 3-4 players always up front, and this is clearly addressed in the new ME, which is also fine. As I have said I started with a flat bog standard 442 and ended with that system because it worked so well. I'm quite pragmatic.

This time I started with the bog standard 433 from the list and quickly found out that the three strikers were too easy to defend against, and moved the wide strikers outwards to great effect. However, it bugged me that whenever I faced a team defending deep with 4-4-1-1, 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1 formations (and sometimes flat 442s), my three midfielders would withdraw to about one meter in front of the defenders who stood waiting at the 16-meter line. The opponent midfielders would then pass the ball between them 20-30 moves without interception or any form of pressure. This was with max closing down on all three midfielders, hard tackling and almost attacking mentality with defensive line set to 15 (first of push up). Very frustrating.

So frustrating, in fact, that I in anger set the defensive line to 20 (max) and watched the midfielders and full backs finally stand up to the opponent midfielders and try to win the ball from them! The forwards did the same, and there was less hesitation, more initiative. Everything improved. Of course, the danger of counter-attacks increased so I moved the central midfielder back to DMC position and made him and the central defenders very defensive-minded. I now had a functional, aggressive tactic that set up enjoyable football - there weren't that huge defensive drawbacks that I could see, so I assumed that the defensive line slider had become much more "insensitive" than in FM12.

However, November next season having won the league comfortably with Salisbury in season one, like 10 Brazilians (I'm Brazilian/Argentinian in the game) in the squad and lots of team gelling problems, I experience problems scoring and finishing matches. Lots of 1-1 draws, 1-0 and 2-1 wins. So I thought maybe moving the FRL's to AMRL would help... and it did. It became even better when I lowered the defensive line to the last notch of Normal. Apparently, max defensive line made the forwards stand still, unlike earlier in the season. Much more movement and space to move in, letting me attack more quickly - as counter-attacks are so efficient. The midfielders don't fall back like they did before so as putting them under pressure goes, I see no difference compared to the previous versions of this tactic.

So then I started thinking about these "experiments". Why these seemingly random results (of tweaking)? Why the changes in player behaviour? Was it the team gelling, the tactical familiarity? Was it the players? Was it the tactic(s)? Or was it something else?

All of the above? Is that why you get flamed in 2000 posts in here complaining about nothing making any sense, about randomness?

I think there are two likely culprits:

* Team gelling, tactical familiarity and culture/language problems have more severe consequences over a longer period of time than before. As i said regarding FM12; it didn't matter if you replaced 4 or 25 first-team players in a transfer window. There was a limit to how many players you could replace before Team Gelling Problem "launched", and when you exceeded that limit you got the Penalty, which wasn't worse if you replaced everyone than if you replaced -one- player over that limit (which was like 4 or 5 players). In FM13, this seems to no longer be the case. Now it seems like each "un-gelled" player underperforms like a headless chicken for half a year, so the Penalty is player-specific not team-based (or primarily player-specific + a team penalty), because the inferior players I kept from last season performs well.

* Positional behaviour is more rigid and interdependent than before. I'll explain: When I set the FRL's to AMRL I noticed that the full-back behaviour changed for both teams. When using FRL their full-backs stayed back (probably because they had to mark their man tighter), while when I use AMRL they often join the attack, doubling on the flanks. So even though my AMRL's work more defensively than the FRL's, the result was weirdly enough that the latter was better defensively because their full-backs didn't help their winger, so they became less dangerous on wide play (and hence, I became more dangerous on counter-attacks when using AMRL's because their full backs did join the attack). Similarly, the three midfielders probably dropped so deep when I used the FRL setup because they are hard-coded to do so when there are no teammates on the flanks, forcing me to push up unnaturally high to prevent this from happening. I also noticed that my 4-1-4-1 (defensive 451) tactic meant to be ultra-defensive had the midfielders pushing up high even on defensive mentalities and low closing down, likely because the central midfielders -do- have someone on the flanks. Thus, the formation matters more than the instructions and the players.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Have tried to play a few more matches in this now and have some more specific feedback.

Firstly, I still insist the ball physics are off. It's fine when the ball is rolling along the pitch on short passes or hit high in the air but strongly hit balls with lower trajectory behave weird. They bounce too far and gather way too much momentum from the ground. The pitch feels rock solid and the grass does not slow the ball down. Also, the weird sideways curl still exists like seen in the first part of this vid:

The second part of that vid is a ridiculous sequence where the keeper takes a free kick near the byline and hits it straight at van Persie for a free shot at an open goal. If GK's are to take free kicks from there there absolutely has to be a short option.

I must say though that I'm not seeing a lot of things that people complain about in this. For example, I don't have a problem with midfielders not playing through balls - in fact I've gotten pretty good two man play out of Carrick (DLP) and van Persie (AF). Rooney as an AMC on support is joining in as well. I also don't feel the randomness where my own team is concerned. A lot of tactical options seem more responsive than FM12 even so I feel pretty much in control. So it's not all bad.

[StevoWanderer]

I'm Workington and I'm in my 11th season. It's my second year in the Champions League, I've won FA Cup twice and League Cup once plus reached Europa League Final (lost to Real Madrid!?) and finished second last year in the league with 90 points (United got 96). My sponsorship however despite a new stadium and all this success is still only 425k a year, which is making it very difficult to compete financially with Man U who have over 70m a year coming in. I know I shouldn't be expecting those sorts of numbers for a long time but to still have £425k despite champs league football and a fair few sponsorship renewals in the past few seasons is a bit of a joke. Does anyone know how this is supposed to work?

On a side note I love the game and I feel the AI are much better squad builders this year. Man U on my game bought 2 45m strikers last season and both got over 50 goals in all comps (and over a goal a game in the league). It's highly frustrating that I have to compete with that but makes it a much better challenge

[CityAndColour]

However, it bugged me that whenever I faced a team defending deep with 4-4-1-1, 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1 formations (and sometimes flat 442s), my three midfielders would withdraw to about one meter in front of the defenders who stood waiting at the 16-meter line. The opponent midfielders would then pass the ball between them 20-30 moves without interception or any form of pressure. This was with max closing down on all three midfielders, hard tackling and almost attacking mentality with defensive line set to 15 (first of push up). Very frustrating.

I have to admit, while I'm enjoying the match engine a lot more than FM12, this is something I'm having an issues with as well. I have three central midfielders on the pitch, a defensive line on the first notch of 'push up' and the team set to 'press more' in team instructions. Yet the AI will get the ball to probably around the 30 yard from goal mark, and then just bullet one touch passes around between 3-4 players while my midfielders and defenders just stand back and watch. 20-30 passes at a time is not really an exaggeration, and means when the AI have the ball (I played on extended) for more than 20 seconds, I assume I'm not getting it off them and just wait for the shot/cross.

[claretmatt]

What rubbish. The ME is miles better, for once i am enjoying watching a game. For all you whingers, i can get my players to press, i can get them to stop taking long shots. the best thing i think us the variety of goals scored and chances made.

also this is the most dedicated team in the whole industry, they care and work hard. stop petty whining and LEARN how to play

Look at this thread:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/325662-Through-balls-killer-balls-run-with-the-ball-through-centre-test-with-pics

And dare tell me "its not the match engine, its my tactics". Take careful not of the players that are in those screenshots.... and tell me there behaviour is realistic?

Can't wait to see your answer.

[Herbert Fandel]

Firstly, I still insist the ball physics are off. It's fine when the ball is rolling along the pitch on short passes or hit high in the air but strongly hit balls with lower trajectory behave weird. They bounce too far and gather way too much momentum from the ground. The pitch feels rock solid and the grass does not slow the ball down. Also, the weird sideways curl still exists like seen in the first part of this vid:

The second part of that vid is a ridiculous sequence where the keeper takes a free kick near the byline and hits it straight at van Persie for a free shot at an open goal. If GK's are to take free kicks from there there absolutely has to be a short option.

I'm sorry but I don't see what is all that wrong with that video. The quality makes it hard though. For the weird sideways curl, If RVP over-hit an outswinging cross with his left foot then that is not too dissimilar to the trajectory I would expect it to take, although perhaps slightly exageratted. Bear in mind I am saying if he crossed poorly. The physics of the curl is correct for if someone cuts across a ball with the inside of their foot, it is more the circumstance that is unusual.

For the GK free kick, that happens from time to time in real life, and I am glad it happens in the game. If it happened every game it would be a disaster, but in my experience, it doesnt. I am not sure if your point is that GK errors such as that shouldn't be in the game, but if it is.... then I dont agree with it.

[Herbert Fandel]

Typical fanboy.

Look at this thread:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/325662-Through-balls-killer-balls-run-with-the-ball-through-centre-test-with-pics

And dare tell me "its not the match engine, its my tactics". Take careful not of the players that are in those screenshots.... and tell me there behaviour is realistic?

Can't wait to see your answer.

That guy has taken a lot of time with his screen shots, but the context is pointless. Can be affected by player instructions, team instructions, the team talks with regard to the scoreline and so on. Furthermore, the ME is constantly being updated.

Quit your pathetic 'fanboy' name-calling patter. The post to which randomopening was replying was far more ridiculous than even your interpretation of his answer.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I'm sorry but I don't see what is all that wrong with that video. The quality makes it hard though. For the weird sideways curl, If RVP over-hit an outswinging cross with his left foot then that is not too dissimilar to the trajectory I would expect it to take, although perhaps slightly exageratted. Bear in mind I am saying if he crossed poorly. The physics of the curl is correct for if someone cuts across a ball with the inside of their foot, it is more the circumstance that is unusual.

For the GK free kick, that happens from time to time in real life, and I am glad it happens in the game. If it happened every game it would be a disaster, but in my experience, it doesnt. I am not sure if your point is that GK errors such as that shouldn't be in the game, but if it is.... then I dont agree with it.

The curl is not natural at all. For a ball to curl as much it has to go up and tip downwards - in this it just continues to curl sideways while bouncing on the ground. This is against laws of physics.

And my point about the second one is that if a GK is to play a free kick from there then somebody has to offer a short option. Its incredibly dumb to hit the ball into traffic when the goal is completely unguarded.

[Herbert Fandel]

And my point about the second one is that if a GK is to play a free kick from there then somebody has to offer a short option. Its incredibly dumb to hit the ball into traffic when the goal is completely unguarded.

I can't really see well enough on the video, so I'll defer to your judgment with the curve.

For the GK kick I am still not convinced though. I completely agree that what the GK did was incredibly dumb. Does that mean it never happens in real life? No. Does it happen all the time in the game? No. Of course it was dumb, that is the whole point! The GK made a bad decision and was nearly punished.

Although it is 100% advisable that someone offers a short option, first that doesn't always happen in real life, and secondly even if there is a short option, it isnt always taken. What if someone had gone short, but the GK had still elected to go long, and had mis-hit it to RVP, would you still be angry? Are you suggesting every single time there is a short option it should be taken? That wouldn't be very realistic. In my opinion you are applying hind-sight to one isolated incident, unfortunately resulting a not especially valid point

[Äktsjon Männ]

For the GK kick I am still not convinced though. I completely agree that what the GK did was incredibly dumb. Does that mean it never happens in real life? No. Does it happen all the time in the game? No. Of course it was dumb, that is the whole point! The GK made a bad decision and was nearly punished.

Although it is 100% advisable that someone offers a short option, first that doesn't always happen in real life, and secondly even if there is a short option, it isnt always taken. What if someone had gone short, but the GK had still elected to go long, and had mis-hit it to RVP, would you still be angry? Are you suggesting every single time there is a short option it should be taken? That wouldn't be very realistic. In my opinion you are applying hind-sight to one isolated incident, resulting in no valid point

Don't agree at all. If it happens somewhere far down in the lower leagues, fine, but this is a professional keeper in a decent team. Firstly, these kinds of set pieces are worked through in training and there's no way there wouldn't be a short option (or a defender covering). Also there's quite a difference between bad decisions and outright madness. I'd accept this if it was open play but not from a dead ball like this.

[Herbert Fandel]

Don't agree at all. If it happens somewhere far down in the lower leagues, fine, but this is a professional keeper in a decent team. Firstly, these kinds of set pieces are worked through in training and there's no way there wouldn't be a short option (or a defender covering). Also there's quite a difference between bad decisions and outright madness. I'd accept this if it was open play but not from a dead ball like this.

So you are saying.... top goal keepers never mishit goal kicks? That is false. I know it isnt a goal kick, but its the same idea. Again, I agree there would often be a short option, but not always, I don't see how one isolated incident of there not being one is of itself a mistake. Again, what if there had been a short option, but the GK still did that? I don't see any real difference. Again, if this happened every game in FM, it would be an ME bug. If it happens once or twice (bearing in mind the thousands of matches being played), it is an accurate representation of professional footballers making mistakes. We are allowed to have differing opinions of course...

[luka_zg]

OK, so I'll give you an example of randomness..playing away at Koln. Game starts, they are better team. Penalty for Koln, 1-0. Corner for Koln,2-0. I switch to control, but nothing changes. HT I'm down 2-0. Game restarts, penalty for Koln. 3-0. Penalty for Koln, 4-0. At this point I DO NOT change anything at all. 68 minute. 4-1. 71 minute 4-2.

77 minute, 4-3. 79 minute, 4-4. OK, now I'm just staring at the screen and wondering what the hell is going on here. 88 minute, I am leading 5-4. and 91st minute it's 6-4. I won the game. So, with the same tactical set up, I am losing 4-0, and have 1 shot on target until 68 minute of the game and the suddenly my team just starts scoring for fun..just crazy, and kind of shows that tactics do not really make that big of a difference.

[OlivierL]

Sorry but I am glad it did, it isn't perfect but I am bloody enjoying it. The pain you suffer from getting to play an imperfect game for longer is far less than what I would have having no game for longer. At the end of the day the game will reach the standard you desire when it reaches the standard you desire, the release date has no bearing on this. If anything releasing it sooner improves it sooner, as they get more feedback. Your logic makes little sense to me unfortunately

I'm enjoying it too , after trying and trying my tactic is working on FM13 .. Two problems are the 'generating match report' when clicking on a result and a few bugs in the ME ( Even worldclass goalkeepers can make mistakes , but not errors like on FM13..) .

[Äktsjon Männ]

So you are saying.... top goal keepers never mishit goal kicks? That is false. I know it isnt a goal kick, but its the same idea. Again, I agree there would often be a short option, but not always, I don't see how one isolated incident of there not being one is of itself a mistake. Again, what if there had been a short option, but the GK still did that? I don't see any real difference. Again, if this happened every game in FM, it would be an ME bug. If it happens once or twice (bearing in mind the thousands of matches being played), it is an accurate representation of professional footballers making mistakes. We are allowed to have differing opinions of course...

It's not a goal kick! It's a free kick right beside the touchline. It's not a realistic mistake to make. You can invent context behind anything, that doesn't make it alright...

[hyborian]

Something u have to check in my opinion is the impossibly often late equalizations from weak teams when they are back one goal. Whatever tactic i use they always manage to bang me in the last 10 minutes of the game. I have tried everything. Both defending tactis and attacking so i can contain em back. Its ridiculous for matches that u might have 20 more shots than them in the first 80 minutes, suddenly they become like 2 times better than u.

[Welshace]

OK, so I'll give you an example of randomness..playing away at Koln. Game starts, they are better team. Penalty for Koln, 1-0. Corner for Koln,2-0. I switch to control, but nothing changes. HT I'm down 2-0. Game restarts, penalty for Koln. 3-0. Penalty for Koln, 4-0. At this point I DO NOT change anything at all. 68 minute. 4-1. 71 minute 4-2.

77 minute, 4-3. 79 minute, 4-4. OK, now I'm just staring at the screen and wondering what the hell is going on here. 88 minute, I am leading 5-4. and 91st minute it's 6-4. I won the game. So, with the same tactical set up, I am losing 4-0, and have 1 shot on target until 68 minute of the game and the suddenly my team just starts scoring for fun..just crazy, and kind of shows that tactics do not really make that big of a difference.

I'm typing this as I read your post Luka...

First mistake is using control when you are down.. .control would be for when you are clear favourites and not chasing a game.. control will slow the game down and you'll just end up wasting possession.

I'd suggest you should have changed things around when you see you are giving away silly fouls in the box.

I imagine you started pulling it back because you are on control and got lucky.. I imagine Koln have been playing a higher tempo game and are probably tired, at which point you get chances and pull it back. Of course, this is all speculation, because we can't see how the game played out, but going on your info, seems pretty clear to me.

[Herbert Fandel]

It's not a goal kick! It's a free kick right beside the touchline. It's not a realistic mistake to make. You can invent context behind anything, that doesn't make it alright...

I said it isn't a goal kick but it is about 5 yards away from where a goal kick is, so it is the same set play. What do you mean it isn't a realistic mistake to make? That is only the case if it never happens in real life, or if it always happens in the game. Neither of those is true. I struggle to see how you can advocate an ME which doesn't allow for errors using realism as your champion. My striker missed a shot recently, he should have passed, it was madness, how unrealistic! I'm done.

[claretmatt]

That guy has taken a lot of time with his screen shots, but the context is pointless. Can be affected by player instructions, team instructions, the team talks with regard to the scoreline and so on.

Are you for real? Look I am on of the few that stick up for FM. But how can I stick up for them on this occasion? It is NOT my tactics, I am complety convinced of this. The match engine is not doing what it should. Watching Rooney last night, he tried at least 4-5 through balls, only one of them worked... but it shows it actually happens a lot. on this version it rarely happens and I am not the only one to notice it.

Just keep burying your head in the sand pal.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I said it isn't a goal kick but it is about 5 yards away from where a goal kick is, so it is the same set play. What do you mean it isn't a realistic mistake to make? That is only the case if it never happens in real life, or if it always happens in the game. Neither of those is true. I struggle to see how you can advocate an ME which doesn't allow for errors using realism as your champion. My striker missed a shot recently, he should have passed, it was madness, how unrealistic! I'm done.

I'm sorry but you need help with your eyesight. 5 yards?

[Welshace]

This is a feedback thread... stop the bickering please.

[randomopening]

Are you for real? Look I am on of the few that stick up for FM. But how can I stick up for them on this occasion? It is NOT my tactics, I am complety convinced of this. The match engine is not doing what it should. Watching Rooney last night, he tried at least 4-5 through balls, only one of them worked... but it shows it actually happens a lot. on this version it rarely happens and I am not the only one to notice it.

Just keep burying your head in the sand pal.

I disagree. i am playing as dag & red, playing 451 with wingers as AP cutting inside. i have one cm as APA. On numerous occasions the cm plays through balls to my striker or wingers if they find space. my striker who is AF, actually plays through balls mainly to wingers especially when we counter attack. i even have my RB play through balls as he is quite profecient but not instructed to.

Also my striker is top scorer in the league so far!!!

[luka_zg]

I'm typing this as I read your post Luka...

First mistake is using control when you are down.. .control would be for when you are clear favourites and not chasing a game.. control will slow the game down and you'll just end up wasting possession.

I'd suggest you should have changed things around when you see you are giving away silly fouls in the box.

I imagine you started pulling it back because you are on control and got lucky.. I imagine Koln have been playing a higher tempo game and are probably tired, at which point you get chances and pull it back. Of course, this is all speculation, because we can't see how the game played out, but going on your info, seems pretty clear to me.

how do you cahnge giving away silly fouls? 3 penalties in the game..come on. scoring 6 goals in 20 minutes after an abysmal 70 minutes? come on. I understand you can explain everything in theory but this was just crazy. I had players on 5's and 6's and suddenly they are ripping Koln appart out of nowhere without me doing absolutely anything?..i didn't even put them on attack ffs!

Random is the way this year it seems.

[DNicholls]

Of course it can happen in the top leagues. Do you not remember Peter Encklemens inability to stop a ball with his foot resulting in an embarrassing OG for mellberg direct from a throw?! Even though it shouldn't of counted, it shows that these top professionals in the top leagues can make errors! In this case your goalkeeper may have mis hit his freekick and sliced it with poor technique, it so happened had to land to RvP.

Mistakes by top pros do happen.

[Herbert Fandel]

how do you cahnge giving away silly fouls? 3 penalties in the game..come on. scoring 6 goals in 20 minutes after an abysmal 70 minutes? come on. I understand you can explain everything in theory but this was just crazy. I had players on 5's and 6's and suddenly they are ripping Koln appart out of nowhere without me doing absolutely anything?..i didn't even put them on attack ffs!

Random is the way this year it seems.

Teams somtimes get 3 penalties in a match. I remember one Martin Palermo once even missed three in one game. It doesn't happen very often in real life, but it doesn't happen very often in FM either. I agree turning matches around in that manner is unusual, but it happens. Remember than time Arsenal were 4-0 down to Reading after one of the single worst 45 minutes Arsenal has played in decades? It doesn't happen very often in real life, but then it doesn't happen very often in FM either.

Now I am not saying for a second that the ME is perfect, and I agree that for many users they can feel like they don't have control over the match, which isn't something SI should desire, regardless of the reasons behind it (tactics).

I am simply saying that people (people in general, not just yourself) need to stop confusing 'This shouldnt hapeen in FM!' with 'This shouldn't happen very often in FM!'. Often, but not yet perfectly, things which shouldn't happen very often in FM, don't.

.... If only SI would keep working on the ME......

Edit - I suppose one difference between the Reading example is the luka claims he didn't change his tactics, wheras one assusme Arsene Wenger tried something slightly different in the second half. However, as he had conceded so many penalties, this means he could have been generally on top during the game. By not changing his tactics he may have stayed on top, and having been on top, the chances eventually went in. Secondly, he might not have changed his tactics, but Koln might have reacted to being 4-0 up, changing their tactics, and the manager might have got it wrong. So tactics may have played a part after all. I know there have been plenty of times I tried to defend a lead and lost.

[RichardMagpies]

Are the conistency problems the same in Classic?

[DNicholls]

Teams somtimes get 3 penalties in a match. I remember one Martin Palermo once even missed three in one game. It doesn't happen very often in real life, but it doesn't happen very often in FM either. I agree turning matches around in that manner is unusual, but it happens. Remember than time Arsenal were 4-0 down to Reading after one of the single worst 45 minutes Arsenal has played in decades? It doesn't happen very often in real life, but then it doesn't happen very often in FM either.

Now I am not saying for a second that the ME is perfect, and I agree that for many users they can feel like they don't have control over the match, which isn't something SI should desire, regardless of the reasons behind it (tactics).

I am simply saying that people need to stop confusing 'This shouldnt hapeen in FM!' with 'This shouldn't happen very often in FM!'. Often, but not yet perfectly, things which shouldn't happen very often in FM, don't.

.... If only SI would keep working on the ME......

Very well put.

[Coentrao]

The problem on that video is having the goal keeper to take that free kick to begin with, who would kick it long near the corner flag leaving the goal completely exposed?

It should default to a defender as a FK taker on that situation.