*Official* Football Manager 2013 Constructive non-ME Feedback Thread

[Vladel]

My GTX 560 only makes this much noise playing skyrim so i got to agree with you it is power dependent.

[wwfan]

Why don't you upload your tactics then (you might have already for all I know) since you say matches look so realistic and players behaving like the real thing in your matches. Then people struggling with the ME showing them crazy shaite can try it, realize its their tactics and go back to the drawing board on their own tactics.

You do have a point when saying it's your tactics, problem is when the ME displays tactical weaknesses as obvious idividual player errors its hard to analyze what the tactical problem is. And people get frustrated when they see their overpayed international superstars make decisions like drunken sailors.

After lots of fine tuning I have gotten my team to play pretty well, I'm not seeing as much crazy stuff anymore, but I still see some. I did not have weak results before the tuning. It's just that what I saw didn't look anything like football, more like boozers running around playing "you're it".

And it wasn't just my players making insane decisions, it was the opponments too.

No need to post them as I already described them. I'll post the description here again:

I'll give you a rough overview of what I do. I'm employing a very basic 4-4-2 at BSP level. My DL has good attacking attributes, so I use him as a WB/A, which ensures he moves between defence and attack. To cover for his aggressive movement, my DCL is my cover DC, my ML is on a support duty, my MCL is a BWM and my FCL is a DLF. My MCR is an AP with great vision and passing for the level. So, on his side of the pitch the FC is a poacher and the MR a winger/attack, with the DCR being a stopper to encourage him to aggressively cover behind the AP and the DR a FB/Automatic. This set up results in the AP having players available to receive passes in multiple positions when he's on the ball, logically covers behind him and attacks differently down each flank. It asks the opposition a series of fundamentally different questions.

For my pre-game shouts, I take note of my team comparison with the other teams in the league. My defence is very fast with good positioning, but not too tall or strong. Consequently, I want a higher line than average, so use the 'Push Up' shout. My midfield are technically excellent with good stamina. I use the 'press more' adjustment to make use of my stamina advantage and the 'pass into space' and 'retain possession' shouts to make use of my technical advantage. My team is very short, so crossing is a bit pointless. I use 'Play Narrower' to try and generate more TB opportunities for the AP, especially through the MR and DL pushing into the final third.

As it is a low level league, I tend to switch between Defend, Standard and Attacking strategies to take advantage of relative team level differences. At a higher level, I'd focus more on developing a very specific style and sticking to it. I then sometimes adjust to pitch and weather conditions between Dec and Jan by switching to "Get Ball Forward' if its wet, 'Exploit Flanks / Clear Ball to Flanks' if the pitch is chewed up and 'Pass to Feet / Exploit the Middle' if it is icy.

[daylight]

Why don't you upload your tactics then (you might have already for all I know) since you say matches look so realistic and players behaving like the real thing in your matches. Then people struggling with the ME showing them crazy shaite can try it, realize its their tactics and go back to the drawing board on their own tactics.

You do have a point when saying it's your tactics, problem is when the ME displays tactical weaknesses as obvious idividual player errors its hard to analyze what the tactical problem is. And people get frustrated when they see their overpayed international superstars make decisions like drunken sailors.

After lots of fine tuning I have gotten my team to play pretty well, I'm not seeing as much crazy stuff anymore, but I still see some. I did not have weak results before the tuning. It's just that what I saw didn't look anything like football, more like boozers running around playing "you're it".

And it wasn't just my players making insane decisions, it was the opponments too.

I never have downloaded a tactic before but I would also like to have a look at this,If indeed after using your tactic the ME and highlights are so much better then I will take everything I have said back.

I have a successful tactic but can't help but laugh at what I see game in and game out on the 3D highlights,if your tactic is indeed so good and the problem lies with the user I would truly like to try it out.

[schuey100]

I really wish that the mods and SI guys would just come out and say that the game was not ready for release and the highlights and/or ME is not fitting for the FM name,I am getting a bit sick of hearing that it is the players fault and their tactics are the problem.

This comment could have been written after every release over the past 10 years but especially since Sega got involved. Happens every year without fail!

[daylight]

This comment could have been written after every release over the past 10 years but especially since Sega got involved. Happens every year without fail!

This year I am really let down by the game,most years for sure things could have been better but you know deep down it will be sorted,for this year I have serious doubts this game will be fixed even as late as next March before they forget about it and a few months later you are hearing Miles talk about how great FM14 will be and it will have over 900 changes...1 to include that Rooney's hair implants really took off and now he is 6 foot as he has grown an afro

[schuey100]

It has nothing to do with the ME compensating for users being "too good" for it. It relates to an overly liberal definition of what a CCC is and users playing in a way that generates a number of similar chances, which are usually hit at pace when having no angle for the shot, the defence breathing down his neck and the keeper closing him down.

But isn't that what the guy is saying? If I play a game and can play it in a way where I can essentially put the advantage in my corner (whether this is realistic or not) through specific actions then I should win. If I don't then the engine is compensating for my, (for want of a better word) 'cheating'?

[schuey100]

This year I am really let down by the game,most years for sure things could have been better but you know deep down it will be sorted,for this year I have serious doubts this game will be fixed even as late as next March before they forget about it and a few months later you are hearing Miles talk about how great FM14 will be and it will have over 900 changes...1 to include that Rooney's hair implants really took off and now he is 6 foot as he has grown an afro

They'll fix it. I've not played this year's game but something I have noticed is this.

1. SI release the game each year without fail with massive game issues and rely upon a loyal userbase knowing that it's more important financially to release a poor game on deadline than to release a good game late.

2. SI is ultimately a 'gaming' team and want to make the best game possible, they always do in the end.

They'll fix it and create something excellent. I just wish over the past few years what they created after christmas was what they released in the first place.

[Govnar1]

Players glide in ME, it's so annoying. If SI ever decides to develop NHL simulation they have animations ready! On a more serious note letters are microscopic, game is very hard to use on high resolution monitors.

[jimmertime]

I agree that there is a problem here. While your GK can distribute short passes, only the FBs drop back, with the DCs pushing high. Very unrealistic positioning, which might contribute to the keeper knocking it long too often.

Closing down also needs some work, especially on teammates reaction when the closing down is a success. However, I've been having a lot of success with a BWM closing down relatively aggressively, so it is not totally foobarred.

This is probably where you are going wrong. In FM12, playing with 3 FCs was very effective because of the lack of collision detection. Basically, they would be able to stroll past DCs onto TBs at will. In reality, playing such a compact formation is very risky as it leaves you undermanned in midfield and the opposing defence will easily reduce attacking space for the front three. You end up relying on your FBs to do everything. Further, having all players on long shots 'rarely' will result in your team winning less corners and getting caught in possession more often than they should be.

thanks, though I actually forgot to say that my three attackers are 'wrong-footed' AML/AMR adv.playmakers to go with a lone ST poacher type who likes to beat the off-side trap, not three FC's so not really a matter of crowded/compact formation here.

I'd like to see more dribbling towards the center+beat their man+through ball esp from the AML/R, or at least that they TRY to do so as they have the right attributes and the instructions to do so, but for some reason fail to even attempt that. I have players on long shots 'rarely' as I noticed they tend to take lots of long shots in any case, and actually midfielders coming from behind and shooting from outside have been my most prolific goalscorers so far which could be good as a plan C, but don't want this to be the focus of my attack.

Any idea to stop my central midfielders go Barcelona-style with all those one touch, high tempo passes? I have my MC's with mixed passing (more on the direct side though) and hold up ball and my team tempo is on normal, so they shouldn't really do that tiki taka thing so often.

Seems my players just refuse to follow my instructions, they do perform more than decently results wise and defence has been quite solid for me, but they don't even try to execute my orders...

[wwfan]

But isn't that what the guy is saying? If I play a game and can play it in a way where I can essentially put the advantage in my corner (whether this is realistic or not) through specific actions then I should win. If I don't then the engine is compensating for my, (for want of a better word) 'cheating'?

It is a false advantage. The CCC stat is overly liberal, sometimes resulting in 22+ yard shots being recorded as CCCs. Missing a shot from that range is hardly 'hard luck'. Secondly, the run onto TB straight down the middle with everyone closing you down CCC type is a tough chance. The ME reads it as a CCC, but actually converting it is realistically difficult.

The best way to get an advantage is to design a tactic that generates multiple scoring opportunities for multiple players. That way, if your FC is having a bad day, your MR can pop up and slot in a couple. Historically, too many user tactics have relied on one method of converting. It seems to me as if the ME changes have made that impossible. Which is a good thing.

[daylight]

They'll fix it. I've not played this year's game but something I have noticed is this.

1. SI release the game each year without fail with massive game issues and rely upon a loyal userbase knowing that it's more important financially to release a poor game on deadline than to release a good game late.

2. SI is ultimately a 'gaming' team and want to make the best game possible, they always do in the end.

They'll fix it and create something excellent. I just wish over the past few years what they created after christmas was what they released in the first place.

As I said I have high doubts,this game is basically months away from release,also don't forget they even had the "pre=order bonus" were they had thousands of beta testers for 2 weeks reporting issues.

I know they will improve it somewhat but I feel this game could go the way of the Dodo and players will not really feel the benefit until FM14 once the SI team have had enough time with the new ME.

[Äktsjon Männ]

After lots of fine tuning I have gotten my team to play pretty well, I'm not seeing as much crazy stuff anymore, but I still see some. I did not have weak results before the tuning. It's just that what I saw didn't look anything like football, more like boozers running around playing "you're it".

And it wasn't just my players making insane decisions, it was the opponments too.

This really sums up my (rather brief) experience with the FM13 demo. Fair enough if my absolutely bog standard TC created tactics cause the game to display a version of 'football' where players keep ignoring the ball, running away from it or taking a touch and then running off without it. Or one where the ball doesn't lose momentum on the pitch, or where every team regardless of their (lack of) quality seem able to knock one touch passes around in the final third of the pitch (just take a look at any random passing chart under the analysis tab to see where the majority of passes in FM13 take place and then compare it with something from the real world) I guess its good that a lot of people can still enjoy this game. Me, I'd rather accept the reality that this ME needs a huge amount of work before it can be anywhere near the stability of FM12 and then maybe we can hope that some real issues with the whole thing finally get a bit of attention. Like three man defenses or midfields. Or concerted pressure. Or the concept of zonal and man marking. Maybe we'll even get a ball that slows down when rolling on the pitch...

[wwfan]

thanks, though I actually forgot to say that my three attackers are 'wrong-footed' AML/AMR adv.playmakers to go with a lone ST poacher type who likes to beat the off-side trap, not three FC's so not really a matter of crowded/compact formation here.

I'd like to see more dribbling towards the center+beat their man+through ball esp from the AML/R, or at least that they TRY to do so as they have the right attributes and the instructions to do so, but for some reason fail to even attempt that. I have players on long shots 'rarely' as I noticed they tend to take lots of long shots in any case, and actually midfielders coming from behind and shooting from outside have been my most prolific goalscorers so far which could be good as a plan C, but don't want this to be the focus of my attack.

Any idea to stop my central midfielders go Barcelona-style with all those one touch, high tempo passes? I have my MC's with mixed passing (more on the direct side though) and hold up ball and my team tempo is on normal, so they shouldn't really do that tiki taka thing so often.

Seems my players just refuse to follow my instructions, they do perform more than decently results wise and defence has been quite solid for me, but they don't even try to execute my orders...

Wrong footed AML/Rs and a poacher will still result in a compact final third, albeit not such a bad one. My suggestion would be to:

1: Think about whether a Poacher is really the best role for the lone forward. He will always stay high and central, resulting in the AML/R having no space to run into. A DLF/S or a TQ may open some interesting space.

2: If both your wrong-footed wingers are set up to play the poacher in with TBs, then you will be suffering from the single target point issue. If the opposition closes him out, you have no Plan B.

3: To work on a Plan B, look to see which two players you want to be secondary threats in the final third and make sure they have Attacking duties, which will encourage them to run past the FC. I'd suggest one MC and one of the wingers. If one winger is on a support duty, then make sure the FB behind him is on an Attack duty (WB is best, but FB is OK). That will result in some interesting overlaps, which will open final third space. Further, make sure that your non Attack duty MC is capable of pulling the creative strings in midfield, as a lot of play will be going through him.

[Welshace]

can anyone tell me where the upload to youtube options have gone for matches and highlights?

[yifanwang99]

Hi wwfan,

do you mind uploading a pkm where you are happy with your team's performance and things went as you planned them. We've seen plenty of 'buggy' pkms and I don't mind seeing a nice one.

[ajw10]

Tactics experts. How can I stop Woj constantly hoofing the ball to Theo Walcott? Y'know beyond getting my team to play it out from the defence, getting my keeper to distribute it short and generally promoting my team to play short passing?

Or how can I stop 7 for jumping Kightly outjumping Subotic to score? And why oh why do Stoke play amazing one touch football when they have a history of playing the complete opposite?

Really struggling to get into this game. Just nothing seems to make sense.

[Nico877]

Winger with 12 pace suddenly gets 20 oace in the heat of the moment and "crosses" to the other winger = goool. I've yet to concede a "normal" goal. "Retain possession" has no function.

[schuey100]

It is a false advantage. The CCC stat is overly liberal, sometimes resulting in 22+ yard shots being recorded as CCCs. Missing a shot from that range is hardly 'hard luck'. Secondly, the run onto TB straight down the middle with everyone closing you down CCC type is a tough chance. The ME reads it as a CCC, but actually converting it is realistically difficult.

The best way to get an advantage is to design a tactic that generates multiple scoring opportunities for multiple players. That way, if your FC is having a bad day, your MR can pop up and slot in a couple. Historically, too many user tactics have relied on one method of converting. It seems to me as if the ME changes have made that impossible. Which is a good thing.

I understand your point but, and I'm just asking, rather than you talking about the engine being overly liberal, shouldn't this all be about accuracy and realism? I do think that any game that compensates (which it obviously does because you've already admitted that the engine is 'overly liberal') is somewhat cheating the gamer.

To be absolutely clear, I'm 100% the game is fair but no wonder the person playing feels cheated when a game compensates in the way you suggested it does.

[junker]

Is that you Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf?

[ajw10]

Tactics experts. How can I stop Woj constantly hoofing the ball to Theo Walcott? Y'know beyond getting my team to play it out from the defence, getting my keeper to distribute it short and generally promoting my team to play short passing?

Or how can I stop 7 for jumping Kightly outjumping Subotic to score? And why oh why do Stoke play amazing one touch football when they have a history of playing the complete opposite?

Really struggling to get into this game. Just nothing seems to make sense.

Also, whats the point of having pressing in the game when it clearly doesn't work? Why does my DM Yann M'Vila refuse to tackle players?

[Welshace]

ajw... you can set your keeper to lay the ball off to one of your defenders.. its in the tactics instructions screen for the keeper, as you'd expect

[wwfan]

This tactical discussion and accompanying advice that you are giving are interesting but seem completely off topic to me. You should continue it in Tactics & Training Discussion or at least in separate tread.

As the vast majority of the feedback thread relates to the ME, then helping people come to grips with it is very much on topic. I'd, of course, prefer people to rationally ask for help in T&T rather than rant on here, but that isn't happening. Until that happens, I will try to help in this thread. Helping people with tactics as a response to a massive GD forum complaint that the ME was borked is exactly how I got involved with these forums in the first place. 2006 all over again!

I understand your point but, and I'm just asking, rather than you talking about the engine being overly liberal, shouldn't this all be about accuracy and realism? I do think that any game that compensates (which it obviously does because you've already admitted that the engine is 'overly liberal') is somewhat cheating the gamer.

The ME isn't overly liberal. The definition of a CCC is. SI are aware and do work on it. I would agree that the CCC stat often hinders rather than helps the gamer.

[Butters76]

I understand your point but, and I'm just asking, rather than you talking about the engine being overly liberal, shouldn't this all be about accuracy and realism? I do think that any game that compensates (which it obviously does because you've already admitted that the engine is 'overly liberal') is somewhat cheating the gamer.

To be absolutely clear, I'm 100% the game is fair but no wonder the person playing feels cheated when a game compensates in the way you suggested it does.

What he said was "half chances" are sometimes listed as a CCC in the match stats even though it wasn't a CCC in the math behind the scene. So when you see in the stats that you had 5 CCC's, in reality only 2 of the 5 were CCC's. Its liberal in what it lists as CCC's

Unless I misunderstood what he said.

[ajw10]

ajw... you can set your keeper to lay the ball off to one of your defenders.. its in the tactics instructions screen for the keeper, as you'd expect

Already done that. Doesn't work.

[daylight]

ajw... you can set your keeper to lay the ball off to one of your defenders.. its in the tactics instructions screen for the keeper, as you'd expect

If only it was that easy,my keeper hardly ever plays it to a defender even though he is instructed to do so,when he does on the very rare occasion the defender plays it right back to him and then he hits it long.

[Welshace]

oh.. weird.. works for me every time

[Welshace]

possibly something to report as a bug then guys...

[ajw10]

possibly something to report as a bug then guys...

Has been reported on a lot. Was supposed to have been fixed when the full game was released, was even listed on the fixes. Hasn't been fixed ofc.

[wwfan]

This really sums up my (rather brief) experience with the FM13 demo. Fair enough if my absolutely bog standard TC created tactics cause the game to display a version of 'football' where players keep ignoring the ball, running away from it or taking a touch and then running off without it. Or one where the ball doesn't lose momentum on the pitch, or where every team regardless of their (lack of) quality seem able to knock one touch passes around in the final third of the pitch (just take a look at any random passing chart under the analysis tab to see where the majority of passes in FM13 take place and then compare it with something from the real world) I guess its good that a lot of people can still enjoy this game. Me, I'd rather accept the reality that this ME needs a huge amount of work before it can be anywhere near the stability of FM12 and then maybe we can hope that some real issues with the whole thing finally get a bit of attention. Like three man defenses or midfields. Or concerted pressure. Or the concept of zonal and man marking. Maybe we'll even get a ball that slows down when rolling on the pitch...

I'd certainly agree with your analysis of passing in the 13 ME being too 'final third', which is because of d-line and closing down issues. There are a few other things that contribute to it as well.

[davidallenxyz]

Just suffered from the "locked tactics" bug myself. A bit frustrating, seemed to coincide with changing from my normal split view to the pitch view.

Also just had an odd moment where the ball appeared to go into the net but was then called as a free kick to the opposition somewhere completely different.

[Welshace]

daylight... what WWFan is saying.. is that the horrible football people are seeing is down to a combination of their tactics AND the glaring issues with the ME... and if people like a lot in here, would happily take the advice of someone who knows how to stop the tactic side of the problem being so, we can get a clear indication of what is actually wrong with the ME, not just diluted views from those with issues in their tactical choices and the ME issues

[Butters76]

WWfan, you do come off as arrogant at times. But some of us have learned with time that you mean well and we are able to read between the lines on your posts.

Thing is when typing you (not just you, but everyone) have to consider how they write things, coz how people take things they read is very much dependent on their own mood at the time of reading it, since they can't see your facial expressions and general body language like people you talk to face to dface can.

And now most people are in a crappy mood so they react harsh to what you write.

I remember when working computer support and tried to help a woman who had messed up her windows installation herself. I explained why it happened and what we had to do. She stopped me and replied "Can't you understand I just need someone to comfort me right now!

Sorry for the sidetracking of the tread, I just felt it had to be said.

[daylight]

daylight... what WWFan is saying.. is that the horrible football people are seeing is down to a combination of their tactics AND the glaring issues with the ME... and if people like a lot in here, would happily take the advice of someone who knows how to stop the tactic side of the problem being so, we can get a clear indication of what is actually wrong with the ME, not just diluted views from those with issues in their tactical choices and the ME issues

As I also said I have a winning tactic but it does not make the ME or highlights any better,telling people how to play a sandbox game is not a very good idea from the off set.

If someone has a tactic then it should be in a separate thread with full details and a link to their tactic,posting the same thing over and over in a feedback thread does not help anyone,SI need to know of the problems and what everyone is experiencing.

I have no doubt that wwfan has a great tactic but as it is a sandbox game I would much prefer to use my own,also there is little need for people to post their problems if they see the samething getting posted over and over again as a response.

[scott MUFC]

here is an interesting one, use a saved tactic, where you can change the play methods in the team selection screen, (you know attacking defending, and fluidity), if you change it there at any point, you can change it in game, however if you don't it is "locked"

[ajw10]

Right. I have just watched my goalkeeper hoof the ball upfield DESPITE the fact that he had four unmarked defenders in front of him. Also, despite having my players closing down as often as possible, they just stand there and let the opposition pass the ball around. However whenever I get the ball, their players swarm around mine.

If anyone can tell me how this can be fixed I will be eternally grateful. Otherwise I'm am considering jacking it in and either going back to 12 or giving up completely.

[wwfan]

As I also said I have a winning tactic but it does not make the ME or highlights any better,telling people how to play a sandbox game is not a very good idea from the off set.

If someone has a tactic then it should be in a separate thread with full details and a link to their tactic,posting the same thing over and over in a feedback thread does not help anyone,SI need to know of the problems and what everyone is experiencing.

I have no doubt that wwfan has a great tactic but as it is a sandbox game I would much prefer to use my own,also there is little need for people to post their problems if they see the samething getting posted over and over again as a response.

I m not trying to sell a tactic. I understand the ME better than almost anyone and the tactical module better than everyone, because I designed it. I am trying to help people learn to play and enjoy FM by sharing objective knowledge of the mechanics and theories underpinning the game.

I have no interest in uploading a successful tactic, because that is not my agenda. I have lots of interest in helping people discover where they might be going wrong and to learn how to play and enjoy FM off their own backs.

[Flying Fox]

This may be the wrong place but;

Is it possible to run FM13 on two laptops, without having to buy two copies of the game? By that I mean, if I go and buy a copy...can me and my brother play the game on our laptops at the same time without problem?

[mmitch19]

I'm not able to adjust the amount of match prep my team does. I haven't delegated this to my assistant. Is it because we are semi pro, or something else, or a bug?

[Kriss]

This may be the wrong place but;

Is it possible to run FM13 on two laptops, without having to buy two copies of the game? By that I mean, if I go and buy a copy...can me and my brother play the game on our laptops at the same time without problem?

Afraid not, you need two Steam accounts and two copies of the game.

[Mr Ford]

Really like the new detail in the favourite staff on each persons profile. But its such a shame this feature doesn't work numerous managers have been sacked in my game and there staff never leave and they never rehire them when back in work. Such a shame this side of the game just never seems to improve. I think if you sorted this issue you could develop it further so as we could then have our own team when we get jobs.

[DMX]

Afraid not, you need two Steam accounts and two copies of the game.

Is that really true kriss ? im buying my son a pc for xmas and i was just going to load my copy of fm on his new pc am i really going to have to pay for another copy ?

[Butters76]

Is that really true kriss ? im buying my son a pc for xmas and i was just going to load my copy of fm on his new pc am i really going to have to pay for another copy ?

If you are going to play at the same time yes. However, he can log into your steam account on his PC (if you let him) and play the game when you are not playing it on your computer.

[thinkadHi]

How about the "you can install it on as many PC's as you want" and "one plays online, one offline" thing?

[DaveGLeeds]

Leading 1-0 away from home with Wrexham against Lincoln in the FA trophy.

On 82 minutes, one of Lincoln's fullbacks kicks a ball the full length of the pitch (from the edge of Lincoln's penalty area) which my keeper, as the first player to touch it (it lands right on him) fumbles onto an advancing striker who just happens to be stood next to my keeper. Striker smashes it home.

5 minutes later, an atrocious backpass sees me go 2-1 down and I go out of the cup.

So, so hard to defend this game at the minute with it's current match engine...

[DMX]

If you are going to play at the same time yes. However, he can log into your steam account on his PC (if you let him) and play the game when you are not playing it on your computer.

Looks like buying another copy i know he would want to play it the same time as me, and i cant wait till when he goes to bed to play it that would be torture, i would be interfering in his game trying to tell him how to run his club

[DMX]

How about the "you can install it on as many PC's as you want" and "one plays online, one offline" thing?

Is this really possible im confused ?

[rnickster]

Anyone else finding that when they request a scout report for some players, sometimes it never comes and just remains as 'this player is currently being scouted and a report will be available shortly'....but never comes..... it means I can never get a report because its stuck on that. Not had this on many players in my first season, about 7-8.....cant find a work around to it either :/

edit* there also seems to be a ridiculously large amount of penalties given !

[TSH]

Given how long you've been moaning about FM, I'm pretty certain you'd have been involved in one of the long threads explaining the CCC problem. Do we really need to go into it again. It has nothing to do with the ME compensating for users being "too good" for it. It relates to an overly liberal definition of what a CCC is and users playing in a way that generates a number of similar chances, which are usually hit at pace when having no angle for the shot, the defence breathing down his neck and the keeper closing him down.

For what it's worth, I think the current ME has fixed a good percentage of liberal CCCs.

Absolute rubbish. If you can't get you players performing, it is a problem in your system, not the tactical module.

I think you'll find it is because the ME is one of the most complex pieces of gaming code anywhere in the world. Rival developers would love to get their hands on it and modders would **** it up.

I'm not usually one to threaten bans, but your deliberate misinformation and trolling undermines any effort we make to try and help users gets to grips with the ME and their tactical problems. If you continue to post rubbish like the above, I will ban you for a month. We do not need you poisoning users against the advice we are trying to provide this early into a release, when angst and frustration are at their highest. Back off or take a break.

There is no need to threaten me with bans, it's comical. You can do as you like, it really means nothing to me.

The CCC problem has always been in the ME and it's you and SI who are labeling "liberal." A liberal CCC? What on God's earth are you talking about and how the hell can you use this as an argument? If CCC doesn't mean what its ACTUAL english mean, FIX IT. Don't try to change a logical meaning just to suit an illogical design choice. By telling people that it isn't so, you don't prove anything. Your words have no greater bearing than many veterans' words, so you either present proof or you are wasting valuable keyboard presses. Neither you nor PaulC have ever presented acceptable and logical proof as to why the players almost always have so many more chances than the A.I. If you had people wouldn't continue to talk about this. We are not stupid you know, stop behaving like we are.

As for the tactics module, it would serve you better not to be so arrogant. Of course there are A LOT of amazingly bad design choices in the tactics module, which actually appeared since the game tried to incorporate some of your logic. I agree it was a step that was needed but after that it has become a needlesly complex beast which asks players to take some huge leaps of faith. As you have seen I have never complained that I'm not winning. In all the FMs winning has never been problem for me because a) the tactics module is really nothing special to understand and b) the A.I. is really bad. Someone must speak for the customer though and his rights. And if the answers are not coming, the questions will remain.

I have no intention of any trolling or misinformation or to undermine anything, so I'm really sorry if what I write sound so.

But if I'm talking bollocks, if so many of us are talking bollocks, you need to bring some proof. Your word alone is not good enough, sorry.

[thinkadHi]

I did it for FM 12 and it worked, my brother was Steam offline and i was Steam online, same account, haven't tried for FM13 as i'm away from home and not much use to it.

[wwfan]

WWfan, you do come off as arrogant at times. But some of us have learned with time that you mean well and we are able to read between the lines on your posts.

Thing is when typing you (not just you, but everyone) have to consider how they write things, coz how people take things they read is very much dependent on their own mood at the time of reading it, since they can't see your facial expressions and general body language like people you talk to face to dface can.

And now most people are in a crappy mood so they react harsh to what you write.

I remember when working computer support and tried to help a woman who had messed up her windows installation herself. I explained why it happened and what we had to do. She stopped me and replied "Can't you understand I just need someone to comfort me right now!

Sorry for the sidetracking of the tread, I just felt it had to be said.

I realise this can be a problem. When it comes to the ME and TC, I do objectively know what I'm talking about, which might be the cause of this. I don't give subjective opinions of what might be the problem, because I know the theoretical structure of AI tactics, which inform how the ME works. I'm actually relatively happy at hearing some of the 'ME is broken' complaints, because they suggest to me that certain ME holes have been fixed, which reward logical tactical structure far more than previous MEs did. Hence, AI teams doing relatively well against illogical tactical structures.

From this perspective, I can suggest to users what they might do to perform the beginnings of a quick fix and to start enjoying FM again. However, I constantly have to defend myself, especially against allegations that I'm trying to sell my own tactic or that I'm merely giving subjective advice. To an extent, those allegations underline the problem FM has. There shouldn't be a 'super-tactic' that every team can use. Users should learn to design tactical systems that support the strengths and weaknesses of their own squad. Unfortunately, ME holes have, thus far, always allowed 'super-tactics' to emerge. Maybe this is the version that doesn't. If so, then users have to adjust their playing habits and SI have to work out how to make playing the game this way more fun and accessible.

This doesn't mean the ME isn't flawed. Closing down isn't aggressive enough, players don't get their foot in to intercept underhit or badly placed passes (both of which result in the final third passing issue), players try long shots at unrealistic angles or off unrealistic passes or after unrealistic first touches, defenders don't try to stretch to block shots, the keeper doesn't guard his near post well enough (I could go on). However, structurally, it is a massive improvement.