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[FM13] New Training system feedback and discussions

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The aim of this topic is not ranting but collecting (good and bad) feedback from the FM Community regarding the new FM13 training system. Feedback regarding training in the official beta topic is lost amongst ton of others post. I feel a dedicated topic would be handy to do so. I have spent some time lurking here (and on the beta of course) to know that some people over here have concerns with this new FM13 training, like me. This topic is for you!

The decision has been made to revamp the UI in FM13 training. I know it’s impossible to please everyone, but at least we can try to! The new FM13 training UI has just been launched and I sure SI are looking forward to improve it. So be part of it.

How the new training works

First, I sum up what I have understood (please tell me if it's not correct) before asking questions, making feedback and points and finally suggestions.

The training guide in TT Forum by Llama3

  1. Workload is spread between training and match preparation (up to 50% for match preparation). Only match preparation matters in the short terms when playing games and there is not cumulative effect. Though training matters in the long term due to how players are trained. Exception is teamwork, which is a boost for team gelling and is kind of a long-term choice
  2. First “layer” of training is a position based general training. Training staff is putting automatically each player in a position based general training schedule according to his natural position. If a player is playing regularly by the manager in another position, then the coaching staff affects the player in the corresponding positional schedule. If a player is trained in a new position, the player is affect as well to the corresponding positional schedule by the coaching staff. Position based schedule fits standards requirements for each position. In others words forwards train more in attack than defenders. However we are not able to customize these positional schedule nor control who is in each schedule, it is only positioned based as explained above.
  3. Second layer of training is team based. A % of workload for general training is used to focus on a specific category. You can choose the intensity of the team focus (Very Low; Low; Average; High; Very High in the drop down menu). If you select "defence", it does not mean forwards will only train defence, it only means they spend more time (time spent is function of team focus intensity) training defence than in their base positional schedule.
  4. Third and last layer of training is player based. You can choose either single attribute focus or role attributes focus. Focus on a single attribute works like FM12. In FM13, you can focus on a set of key attributes related to a tactical role (poachers, playmakers, wingers, etc). Attributes focus on in a role are those highlighted in the training attributes tab->area. You can select the intensity of individual training as in FM12.
  5. Regarding players’ condition and fitness. We have now the option to allow day rest before or/and after a game. We could still allow a day rest for only one player in order to deal with individual player fitness problem.

Questions

I tried to make it easy for SI Guys (or anyone who knows) to answer.

  1. In general training, focus: what is team cohesion? Is it a sort of boost for team gelling process? Like teamwork in match preparation?
  2. In general training, focus intensity: In term of workload %, how does very low, low, average, high, very high represent from the workload assign to general training? 5% to 25%?
  3. In individual training, intensity: Is the workload dedicated to individual focus (single attribute and role) derived from the general training workload as well. If yes in which %? Still 5-10-15%?
  4. In individual training, focus on role: Have all roles focus the same number of attribute trained?
  5. In individual training, focus on role: Workload spread equally between attributes focused on in that role right?
  6. In individual training, focus on role: All attributes highlighted (especially mental one) are trained, even the one that are not available in "single attribute focus". Except, of course, the ones that are not trainable like aggression of determination
  7. In individual training, PPM and New position: Are the workload for these still derived from general training workload? Still 20% and 10% respectively?
  8. As a result, if a player has a general training of 80% (20% match preparation), a defence team focus “average-15%”, a new position “10%”, PPM “20%” and a high intensity central defender focus “15%”. He is really training 20% in his positional based schedule?
  9. How is positional based training workload reduce when other training (team focus, PPM, individual, new position) are set? Linearly reduced? With the previous example, a 20% is just a 4x linear reduction of the 80%, ration remain the same?
  10. Day rest: As we are suggested to use individual day rest to deal with fitness level for specific player. What are the consequences regarding player happiness if he doesn’t feel it’s a fair decision? (ie he is not jaded and need rest)
  11. Training feedback: Cold you elaborate on news training levels? Is it still category based? Are we going to have them in the short term?

Feedback

I think the new training model has a lot of potential, more than the sliders system to be fair. Sliders UI was not that difficult to grasp, but it wasn’t very user-friendly for new players and “casual” gamers, many would download schedules or simply don’t care at all. The FM13 training UI allows a more straightforward for newcomers to the game or those who didn’t like the old sliders system. With a kind TC approach when it comes to individual role focus for example and calendar UI, that’s a good thing. Training staff chooses in which positional schedule a player will be trained. That’s should be the default for casual gamers but a football manager should be able to override this in my opinion. Same goes for SI based positional schedule, it’s very fine for default choice but a football manager should be able to override this if he wants to. Although other options have been introduced, I feel decisions to me made are reduced when it comes to training. Even if it’s a game, most of us expect it to be realistic. So I understand the need to somehow restrict some options, but in my opinion it went too far.

  • Training is now more "playing style" and "fit my tactical setup" orientated which is great in the long run to try to shape you squad. Moreover, it is easier now to set up tactical role focus, individual focus and team focus and more user friendly. The week-by-week layout is very nice as well.
  • Trade off is training is now, in my opinion, less "player development" orientated due to the impossibility to design individual schedule which exactly fits what I want for that player.
  • As a result, less feedback on how player is doing in training. It makes sense though from your point of view as we can only influence attribute(s) so the only necessary feedback is the detailed evolution of attributes graph. But if you allow the user to customize schedule, more feedback would be necessary.
  • Though I understand the need for more “team training”, I still think we lack the possibility to deal with individual players efficiently and print our own training style. Basically, we depend now of SI based schedule both for team training (positional scheduled) and individual training (role focus) and have to stick with it. I do think though the new UI is better than only sliders but some people just like to make under the hood adjustment, as you know. And the point regarding AI training is valid as well; I wish myself more options for AI.
  • Some newgens or young players may be worldbeaters but with a major flaw. Though individual focus is here to correct that, he is in a SI based scheduled I have absolutely no control on. I understand the “make decision and compromise” argument but it’s not about finding a perfect combination of slider as I have heard. It’s about trying to shape player. He may not react well due to PA, personality, coach, etc… and I may be completely wrong, but it’s my decision and player development model and the player himself should be the limit, not training options.
  • We should be able to spot quickly (ie graphics bar) how workload is spread for each player (cf question 8). Apologies if I missed something but it seemed to have gone. It is very useful to understand how each player is training between all possible focus and assignments. Would be nice to have something like this back.
    T3x7W.png
  • One issue is player condition. If 3 or 4 players are in the same position based general training, let say "central defender". If one player has very low natural fitness and is not recovering properly between games. Although a rest day before and after game may do the trick for him, it penalize others players. Rest only that player is on option but it means it doesn't train at all that day and may be unhappy. The new selection option in the tactic screen (half of the team) is more a convenient way to rotate players than dealing with an individual efficiently. Basically, I can't control through training fitness of one player, which is because I cannot control anymore-training workload for each player individually. Though, I do think it’s more realistic not to have an individual workload, we lack options in my opinion.

Suggestions

Allowing the user the possibility to design custom general training schedule.

For example, if I don't think defence training should be function of position (Lobanovsky was that kind of manager, pressing from the front as a unit; Bielsa and others as well) I cannot implement what I aiming at with the current system, even with the general training focus. If the user don’t want to go down that road, FM13 positional based schedule are of course available. If the user wants more control, an advanced mode to create schedule. I don’t care if it is sliders, buttons, radar, calendar style UI if we are able to have more control, so more decision to make if we want to.

CB default schedule: Impossible to edit but visible

CM default schedule: Impossible to edit but visible

AM default schedule: Impossible to edit but visible

Schedule n°1: Attack (30%) + Ball Control (15%) + Shooting (5%) + Aerobic (25%) + Strength (25%) = 100%

Schedule n°2: Defending (30%) + Tactics (30%) + Aerobic (20%) + Strength (20%) = 100%

Schedule n°3: Attack (35%) + Ball Control (25%) + Shooting (5%) + Tactics (15%) + Aerobic (10%) + Strength (10%)= 100%

Allowing the user the possibility to group players freely

For example, grouping players not by position but with a custom list (youngers, first team, veteran, defensive wingers with wingbacks and defensive midfielders, etc…) I would be able to quickly remove or add players to that list.

Default CB group

Default FB group

Custom defensive wingers, fullback, wingbacks, defensive midfielders group

Default CM group

Custom playmaker – creative forwards group

Default AM group

Custom Target man group

Allowing the user to assign players to schedule freely

Default DC group: Schedule n°2

Default FB group: FB default schedule

Custom defensive wingers, wingbacks and defensive midfielders group: Wingbacks default schedule

Default MC group: MC default

Custom playmaker – creative forwards group: Schedule n°3

Default MOC group: MOC default schedule

Custom Target man group: Schedule n°1

Allowing the user the possibility to design custom role focus:

For example with the poacher role. I don't feel the need to focus on dribbling but my poacher is a pretty tall guy and I want to further improve this asset. I would have the choice to pick up to 6 attributes to create my own role focus.

Finishing: 20%

Off the ball: 20%

Composure: 20%

Anticipation: 20%

Heading: 20%

These custom role focuses would be available for all my players, or group of players. For example, if I want my youngsters to focus on fitness (IRL it would be a group working with a fitness coach)

Balance: 25%

Quickness: 25%

Stamina: 25%

Strength: 25%

In order not to overcomplicate things, workload would be shared equally between all attributes as I think it is at the moment. Same line as the default role focus actually.

Allowing the user to train team or a player at 50% of standard workload.

Day rest after and before is a nice team tool; individual day rest is more a tool for jaded players at the end of the season as I see it. I’d like to see a “light training session” option either for the entire team or for one player. It means the team, or the player is still training but it’s an alleged version today to keep match fitness but allowing a quicker fitness recovery or when is recovery from injury. It would allow preserving some players in a light training session based on fitness a day or so while still working full fat with the rest of the team (substitutes, etc…). It would be available in a drop-down menu in calendar layout style like match preparation focus for example. I would be able to have instead of “rest before match” as well to allow recovery.

SI Community:

Anyone who is, more or less, sharing the same point of view is invited to post what he thinks of the new FM13 training in this topic. Of course, same goes for the people who are perfectly happy with the training system, feel free to post your views. Suggestions and feedback are very welcomed. The more the better.

Riz, I’d really (really) appreciate your feedback on suggestions and participation in discussion if you have the time :)

Collected SI Answers in other threads

This is basically the direction where we are trying to take the training module. You employ a number of coaches to run the training, so you shouldn't have to micromanage the detailed drills for every single player. So the AI coaches will setup the basic training drills (or slider values, whatever way you want to view it) and by assigning an individual focus on a certain role, the training levels are adjusted so the key attributes are trained more.

Yes, it might not be perfect right off the bat, but we believe this is the right direction to go for.

Oh, and someone wondered earlier about new positions and the focus on roles in training. I can confirm that you can indeed assign a player to learn a new position and at the same time, you can assign him to focus on a role linked to the new position even if he is not yet accomplished in that.

This was the main design point of the training revamp this year. Teams train together and whilst for some drills they are split into sub-groups based on the position they are expected to play, at the end of the day the training is not about having 25 players doing individually tailored drills alone at the training ground, its about the team training together (either in one group or a few different groups).

The way training works in relation to player progression and the coaching duties is pretty much the same under the hood, however there have been some changes to accommodate things like focusing a player on a role instead of just one attribute and the new team level focuses and intensities.

We were well aware of the fact that some people would feel strongly about these changes and would insist that they lose certain level of control over training and molding their players. However looking at it from the realism aspect, we feel the new interface makes it more like managing actual training instead of balancing sliders in search of some perfect combination.

The coaches still train players within the team in a position-balanced fashion, so defenders won't be doing the exact same drills as attackers etc. So strikers will work less on defensive aspects than defenders by default.
The underlying basic mechanics and links between training and player progression remain the same. The way training levels are constructed has changed obviously but the progression of attributes (and thus CA) is linked to the training the same way as before.
The youth training is separate from senior training, so you can set the team training focus on fitness for the youths if you want to improve their physical attributes more.
Just in case this wasn't cleared up before, I'll clarify it once more: Regardless of what individual training focuses you set on players, each player will do the team based training drills with a generic focus on his playing position. So defenders will train differently than strikers even if no-one has any individual focuses set. The coaches at the club will setup the team training drills (ie. the old "schedules") so that they will benefit each player differently based on his position and the manager can then finetune the focus of the training for each player via the individual focus (role or a specific attribute) if he wants to.
Setting the individual training focus on a specific role will skew the player training in the key attributes related to that role, similar to how the individual training on a specific attribute works. Obviously it won't be as effective on each attribute as focusing on just one specific attribute but it will help you groom the player into a particular role. In general, the individual training focus is always more defined and aimed at certain detailed aspects (attributes) of the player's game, whereas the team training is more geared towards the categories linked to the players position and any team focuses set by the manager.

Originally Posted by milnerpoint

So basically breaking down a bit what you guys have done is taken the train one attribute feature from previous games and now made it so you can focus training on mutilple attributes at the same time?

The individual training focus on a specific role (Poacher etc.) does indeed work just like this. The difference is that the effect on a single attribute is not as great as when focusing on just one specific attribute.

Originally Posted by milnerpoint

Does the changing training focus affect how the team plays, or just how it trains? Or do they kinda work off each other?

Match preparation training is the part of training that links to how the team plays in matches in the short term. Obvious in the long term, the way you train your players and their attributes through the general team training and individual focuses will also affect the way your team plays, but in the short term the match preparation focus is what matters.

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Just a quick correction on the stuff in the original post: The "intensity" setting in general training will affect all of general training, not just the focus set for that week (or the default). I'll add more info/corrections once I've read through a bit more later on. Good idea for a thread, lets just keep it on topic and without rants :)

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my question would be, if you click "allow rest after match"

are all guys on rest? or just the guys who actually played.. because i dont wanna send my bench and the rest having a rest when they didnt do anything

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Thanks for yout input Riz. Appreciated :)

Good questions regarding the rest option. I think it is the whole team...but it would made sense if it was for starting11 or sub playing more than a halftime.

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Great idea for a thread.

Perhaps guidance could be provided for a good 'default' setup for the following scenarios for those people who dont want to get too involved in the training but want to be assured they are basically on the right track.

*PRE-SEASON FITNESS TRAINING

*GETTING FAMILIAR WITH A NEW TACTIC ASAP

*GENERAL SEASON TRAINING ENSURING PLAYERS DEVELOP WHILST REMAINING 'FRESH' FOR GAMES.

Many thanks

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Just a quick correction on the stuff in the original post: The "intensity" setting in general training will affect all of general training, not just the focus set for that week (or the default). I'll add more info/corrections once I've read through a bit more later on. Good idea for a thread, lets just keep it on topic and without rants :)

If I rephrase you to make sure it’s cristal clear.

In general training tab, we have 2 drop-down menus. The left one (red) "default focus" is about the team focus (fitness, attack, defence, tactics, etc…) by default for each week. The right one (blue) "default intensity" is about the intensity of general training and focus intensity. To override the focus choice and only the intensity of focus for a week, you have to use (green) "Intensity" of focus is in the drop down menu for each week (green), below the (yellow) “focus” drop down menu (yellow).

waHd7.png

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So in summary:-

- A player first trains for his position generally, say as a 'midfielder'. You don't control this training?

- he will then do some varying levels of general 'team' training in a specific area such as 'defending' (set from the main training screen and differing intensity options)

- at the same time (level depending on how you set the bias) he will be doing 'match preparation' training such defence positioning, again on specific area and intensity levels set by the you.

- Below this he can also do either specific attribute training (such as 'quickness') or train a set of attributes for specific role (such as poacher, which will do finishing, pace, composure etc.) I'm presuming this specific role attribute training is only the attributes suited to that role? So for example I could make my AML who is playing as an 'Inside Forward' train as a 'Poacher' because I want him to improve his finishing related attributes more than his standard 'inside forward' attributes that are already good and this won't affect him tactically or positionally? (And I can vary the intensity of either of these trainings)

- On top of all this I can train a new position at the same time as the focus training, so I could re-train a player as DR and at the same time train him in the 'fullback' role but I can't say train 'fullback' AND 'quickness'.

Have I got that right?

So for pure development of good attributes you want default 'team' training intensity to be quite low and the individual role focus intensity to be high?

High intensity team default focus should be really only be for say pre-season (fitness), gelling (cohesion) or new tactics (tactics) so predominantly pre-season, early season?

When your team is up and running and more familiar with each other more focus should then be on their individual player roles (particularly for developing young players and assigning/directing their how their gaines CA points are 'spent') and team related match preparation? So default training intensity would be lowered and match prep and role training would increase.

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If I rephrase you to make sure it’s cristal clear.

You got it right there. The weekly settings will override the defaults set at the top.

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@tajjuk@yahoo.co.uk

That's how I understand it if it helps. Please don't take what I have written for gospel, that's only what I have understood so I may have missed something.

- Agree

- Agree

- Agree

- Agree, though I am not sure the specific role focus is not tied to his position...ie you wouldn't be able to train a natural efensive midfielder (no other position green) as an striker. Someone with the game open needs to confirm this.

- Agree

Not sure about how workload is shared to be honest, that's my main question. That's why I asked a information panel for each player to spot where the workload is really going. Hope we have answers

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That's how I understand it if it helps. Please don't take what I have written for gospel, that's only what I have understood so I may have missed something.

- Agree

- Agree

- Agree

- Agree, though I am not sure the specific role focus is not tied to his position...ie you wouldn't be able to train a natural efensive midfielder (no other position green) as an striker. Someone with the game open needs to confirm this.

- Agree

Thanks, I think you can train a player in any 'focus role'.

I edited my post and added some more questions, but I'll repeat:

So for pure development of good attributes you want default 'team' training intensity to be quite low and the individual role focus intensity to be high?

High intensity team default focus should be really only be for say pre-season (fitness), gelling (cohesion) or new tactics (tactics) so predominantly pre-season, early season?

When your team is up and running and more familiar with each other more focus should then be on their individual player roles (particularly for developing young players and assigning/directing their how their gaines CA points are 'spent') and team related match preparation? So default training intensity would be lowered and match prep and role training would increase.

Hopefully it looks like I have been generally setting up my training fairly correctly.

Also can you add whole squad rest days? and how do you give players rests?

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Yes, for pure developement of attributes you want the highest workload in individual focus. In FM12, the workload assigned to individual focus was derived from the workload assigned training (ie training schedule - category) by amount of 5-10-15% whatever the match preparation workload was, it overrides it basically and the remaining workload is for general training. I am not sure it works that way again in FM13.

I agree with preason team focus : fitness is the obvious one as for team cohesion (squad gelling). I would go with an average general workload and very high team focus. I disagree though with "tactics" focus, I don't think it is related to match preparation and tacticals system you have input. In order to be familiar with your set of tactics in match prep, you should increase the match preparation workload with the main slider right in the middle.

When team is up and running and familiar with tactical system in match, first thing is to reduce workload assigned to match preparation so that you have more for general training. Use individual focus is a good choice at that moment in my opinion

You could add rest days for the whole teal (to be confirmed) after and before a game. Individually you are able as well to add rest day, not sure if it is with personal conversation or right on player's name

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Yes, for pure developement of attributes you want the highest workload in individual focus. In FM12, the workload assigned to individual focus was derived from the workload assigned training (ie training schedule - category) by amount of 5-10-15% whatever the match preparation workload was, it overrides it basically and the remaining workload is for general training. I am not sure it works that way again in FM13.

I agree with preason team focus : fitness is the obvious one as for team cohesion (squad gelling). I would go with an average general workload and very high team focus. I disagree though with "tactics" focus, I don't think it is related to match preparation and tacticals system you have input. In order to be familiar with your set of tactics in match prep, you should increase the match preparation workload with the main slider right in the middle.

When team is up and running and familiar with tactical system in match, first thing is to reduce workload assigned to match preparation so that you have more for general training. Use individual focus is a good choice at that moment in my opinion

You could add rest days for the whole teal (to be confirmed) after and before a game. Individually you are able as well to add rest day, not sure if it is with personal conversation or right on player's name

Yeh sorry for tactics I'm presuming that is tactical attributes.

However I see little point though in these general settings of 'attack', 'defence' 'tactics' etc. because who wants your whole team generally trained in a wide area of attributes?

Now I am mid season I have this general intensity set to very low, however is this affecting my overall training time?

What I mean is, does the individual player role focus come out of this general team focus? or is it separate

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Oh, I see what you mean. I think it works like this in FM12

Match preparation 30% + General training 70% = 100% (main central slider)

Specific match preparation works under Match preparation workload, so it doesn't have any effect on general training.

During the 70% of time a player is in general training you can add :

- 5-10-15% for individual training

- 10% for new position

- 20% for PPM

Up to 45% taken from the 70% of general training. 25% are remaining for general training

You have now a default intensity in general training from step 1 to step 5

I assume when you go very low, you are training 1/5 of 25% so 5%. Following this logic, you have

- Low : 10%

- Average : 15%

- Hard : 20%

- Very Hard : 25%, the maximum workload available for general training

On top of that, you have the team focus, by default his intensity is the same as the "default intensity" in the generic tab.

If you don't have a team focus, well nothing change. If you have one, I think you are assigning a fraction of the remaing general training workload to that team focus. I don't know how though...

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Another quick post to note a thing about the workloads and percentages:

In FM12 the individual training time was taken out of the general team training time, but in FM13 we've changed the individual training so that it increases the overall workload for the specific player but it doesn't eat away at the general training time. This was one of the reasons why you don't get the old percentage split panel and only get the individual training percentages on the player training panel. All players will train the same amount of time in the team general training and the time split between general training and match preparation can be controlled via the slider in the top middle of the training screen.

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How do you allow players to settle into the team, half way through the season and my assistant is saying a number of players are struggling to blend into the team

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How can I train my defensive players on defending and my offensive players in attacking/finishing ?? I'm really lost here...

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Thanks for yout input Riz. Appreciated :)

Good questions regarding the rest option. I think it is the whole team...but it would made sense if it was for starting11 or sub playing more than a halftime.

This would be perfect I dont want my subs that played less than half a game and other players resting

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Oh, I see what you mean. I think it works like

Match preparation 30% + General training 70% = 100% (main central slider)

Specific match preparation works under Match preparation workload, so it doesn't have any effect on general training.

During the 70% of time a player is in general training you can add :

- 5-10-15% for individual training

- 10% for new position

- 20% for PPM

Up to 45% taken from the 70% of general training. 25% are remaining for general training

You have now a default intensity in general training from step 1 to step 5

I assume when you go very low, you are training 1/5 of 25% so 5%. Following this logic, you have

- Low : 10%

- Average : 15%

- Hard : 20%

- Very Hard : 25%, the maximum workload available for general training

On top of that, you have the team focus, by default his intensity is the same as the "default intensity" in the generic tab.

If you don't have a team focus, well nothing change. If you have one, I think you are assigning a fraction of the remaing general training workload to that team focus. I don't know how though...

Ok, so you have slightly confused me here.

So I thought i'd use this screen shot from further up:-

waHd7.png

So looking at this screen, obviously you have the slider in the middle setting your balance between 'match preparation' and 'general training'.

Then under 'general training', you have both 'default focus' and 'Default Intensity'.

If 'Default Intensity'. is set to low does that mean you mean that less time is spent on an individual players' role training?

So if I for example have Lallana on a role training of 'inside forward' and his intensity for that is 'very high', will the very low 'Default Intensity' for General training affect this?

Say the whole team has 10 hours for training this week, the 'General' training and 'Match Preparation' are 50/50, that leaves 5 hours possible time for 'General Training', but if the 'Default Intensity' is set to low, this means only 2 hours are being used, then from this two hours, does that mean that only 30 mins is being used for individual role focus training?

EDIT: Ah it seems Riz has answered my question:-

Another quick post to note a thing about the workloads and percentages:

In FM12 the individual training time was taken out of the general team training time, but in FM13 we've changed the individual training so that it increases the overall workload for the specific player but it doesn't eat away at the general training time. This was one of the reasons why you don't get the old percentage split panel and only get the individual training percentages on the player training panel. All players will train the same amount of time in the team general training and the time split between general training and match preparation can be controlled via the slider in the top middle of the training screen.

Which is good, so my original thought that to get a player to really focus on attributes for his position during the year you would set role focus to high intensity and general training to low intensity to reduce the workload.

How do you allow players to settle into the team, half way through the season and my assistant is saying a number of players are struggling to blend into the team

I'm presuming 'team cohesion' general training.

How can I train my defensive players on defending and my offensive players in attacking/finishing ?? I'm really lost here...

If you mean getting defenders to work on their defensive related attributes, then you would up the intensity on their role training, so for DC for example who you are playing as 'ball playing defender' (or want to increase in the attributes for that role) you go to the player -> training -> train specific role -> 'ball playing defender'. You can also go to the squad training screen, click on the individual training tab and see what every player is doing individually and change it from there with drop down menus.

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Another quick post to note a thing about the workloads and percentages:

In FM12 the individual training time was taken out of the general team training time, but in FM13 we've changed the individual training so that it increases the overall workload for the specific player but it doesn't eat away at the general training time. This was one of the reasons why you don't get the old percentage split panel and only get the individual training percentages on the player training panel. All players will train the same amount of time in the team general training and the time split between general training and match preparation can be controlled via the slider in the top middle of the training screen.

Many thanks, its clearer now.

So basically, I can have match preparation 30% and general training 70% + Individual training (PPM, New position, Individual focus) up to 45% (- 5-10-15% for individual training

+ 10% for new position +20% for PPM)

Is team focus workload taken out from general training? If yes, in which workload %?

@hubx :

You mean with team focus? You can not do this with the team focus as far as I am concerned, it only applies to the whole 1st team. What you can do is :

- Train defensive attribute(s) in single attribute/role focus for the players you want

- Train offensive attribute(s) in single attribute/role focus for the players you want

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I think S.I made the right call, even though it is dumbed down this way is more realistic, after all anyone who played squad football knows that you have a general training for everyone then the positional aspect takes over and then you get trained to be the type of player in the position the manager wants you to be.

I think a happy medium for next year would be to keep the current set up but have the same training schedule of championship manager 4 for positional training which goes along with general training.

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So looking at this screen, obviously you have the slider in the middle setting your balance between 'match preparation' and 'general training'.

Then under 'general training', you have both 'default focus' and 'Default Intensity'.

If 'Default Intensity'. is set to low does that mean you mean that less time is spent on an individual players' role training?

So if I for example have Lallana on a role training of 'inside forward' and his intensity for that is 'very high', will the very low 'Default Intensity' for General training affect this?

Say the whole team has 10 hours for training this week, the 'General' training and 'Match Preparation' are 50/50, that leaves 5 hours possible time for 'General Training', but if the 'Default Intensity' is set to low, this means only 2 hours are being used, then from this two hours, does that mean that only 30 mins is being used for individual role focus training?

Sorry to confuse you, I am thinking out loud with you on this!

Riz has just stated that individual focuses workload are not taken away from general training right?

So if you set "default intensity" to low it has absolutely no effect on the workload assigned to individual focus.

If you have 10 hours training, 50/50 so 5h hours for general training. If default intensity is "low" and the 2/5 thing is correct, then players have 2 hours of general training + xxx minutes in individual training. It has changed in FM13.

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Sorry to confuse you, I am thinking out loud with you on this!

Riz has just stated that individual focuses workload are not taken away from general training right?

So if you set "default intensity" to low it has absolutely no effect on the workload assigned to individual focus.

If you have 10 hours training, 50/50 so 5h hours for general training. If default intensity is "low" and the 2/5 thing is correct, then players have 2 hours of general training + xxx minutes in individual training. It has changed in FM13.

Yep I think we are there:-

Players Training workload = 'Squad Training' (% shared between general training /match preparation) X Intensity + 'Individual focus' (% shared between player role training or specific attribute training/any new position training/PPM training) X Intensity

Therefore if 'Squad Training' and 'Individual Training' intensities are both high, the player will have a very high workload.

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Yes, exactly this. I think PPM training is in the individual workload as well.

What do you think of team focus in general training? I think workload for team focus is taken out of the squad training time but how?

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Yeh it does, added that in, you can get a player to work on a PPM, Position and a role/specific attribute at the same time, but each action will only be a percentage of the players individual training, so more reason to increase intensity in individual and reduce his general workload to compensate so he doesn't get unhappy or overtired.

Actually really liking this new training.

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Really good thread guys, really helpful!

This should be a sticky just because the module is new and this helps people understand.

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There is a basic guide here:- http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/320547-FM13-The-Basic-Guide-to-Training-and-Match-Preparation

In the tactics and training forum, however it doesn't cover the relationships between all the different types of training and their intensities or what you can use them for.

Nice one thanks for that. :)

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I'm really confused about match preparation. Moving the slider changes the days in the calendar.

0-10% - 0 days taken for match training. No option to change the focus in the calendar. Are they training at all?!

20-40% - 1 day taken for match training

50% - 2 days taken for match training

Now, are those days on the calendar, days where players won't train for attributes at all, only match training? It is really unclear. If I choose "allow rest before match", the rest day is always before the match training day(s). At 10% the rest day is right before the match itself. So then match preparation is occurring the same day as the match? Therefore, generally, match day is also training day? I doubt attributes are being trained on match day, it would be wrong. So if we assume that match training days are only for match training, then what is the point having it at 20% and not 40% when you always lose 1 day of attribute training? The scheduling slider is really unclear with the way it affects the calendar.

It may sound confusing, but I didn't want to litter the thread with my giant screenshots. Run the game and you'll see what I mean.

We need you Riz Remes :)

And another thing. With no rest days and match preparation 0 there are 21 training days and 7 matches in my next 4 weeks. With match training 50% there are 7 training days and 14 match preparation days. How is that 50% of 21?

Since the difference between 1 and 2 days of match preparation is only from 40% to 50%, i.e. 10%, we can argue that most of the second (or first) day marked "Match preparation" will be padded with general training. But then the "allow rest" isn't really a rest, because it comes always before the match training days. So it is perfectly possible that my squad will be intensively lifting weights a day before the match?!

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Have to say, although I like the new training set up overall I am missing the 'drag along' bars and creating my schedules that way. I do feel like I have less control over player development for positions within the team. It's a shame, as player development is my favourite part of the game.

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i read somewhere where Riz wrote that, training young players differs from seniors at the club.. any information how to control youth training would be appreciated..

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Well... I will probably get used to this new training UI. But, as NakS, I think that we lost something and it bothers me a bit.

The minimum I ask is that we still get the power to decide and it seems that some choices are automatically decided by our training coaches. Why not, but please allow us to modify the assignments of players in the position based trainig. Maybe I'm a pain in the *** but what if I want to assign my wingman to the central midfielder training (or fullback training,... because it pleases me :p) but whithout having to make him learn a new position ? Maybe I could find a way through the differents "layers" of training to obtain what I want but it risks to affect at least partially the training of the others wingmen, no ?

An other issue is the player condition managment. I'm still not sure about the day rest if it's individual or global (or for a groupe of players) but until now I didn't care a lot because I was used to modify the work load depending on the time each player played and when I think to use them again. But now with this new training I can't modify the load for a player whithout changing the load for all the players in the same position based training. Am I right ?

So I can't manage the load individually except maybe with the day rest which cause (or at least caused in FM12) a loss of fitness and match exercise therefore decreases performance of the player on the field.

So maybe I'm asking too much but at least SI would add the possibility, for FMists like me, to manage a bit more individually. I think (but I know it's never that simple) it's just an other layer to add allowing us to change the position based training assignment and the global workload for each player.

I hope I make myself understand, I'm not English native:D

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So am I reading it right and "role focus" is not equivalent to a particular slider setup, but actually a watered-down version of specific attribute focus?

And these attributes are exactly those which get highlighted when a role is picked in various screens?

Does that mean that all strikers are on the same schedule, and only their attribute/role (or "several attributes") focus make their training different?

Or does the game utilize both, i.e. a complete forward schedule is different to a poacher schedule, and in addition there is the extra focus on key attributes?

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So am I reading it right and "role focus" is not equivalent to a particular slider setup, but actually a watered-down version of specific attribute focus?

Yes, so where attribute focus will concentrate on say just 'passing', 'defensive midfielder' role focus will concentrate on several attributes that the game thinks are important for that role, so for 'defensive midfielder' it's like passing, tackling, stamina etc. It is in fact slightly more tailored than the old sliders, because for example previously if you wanted a 'ball playing defender' you would have had to have put some 'attacking' training on him, but then things like crossing would have gone up which you don't want.

And these attributes are exactly those which get highlighted when a role is picked in various screens?

Yes, and you can highlight them in the training role screen as well.

Does that mean that all strikers are on the same schedule, and only their attribute/role (or "several attributes") focus make their training different?

Yes, the team have positional based 'General Training' and the whole team is on the same schedule, see above about 'General Training', which can be done in certain areas, Fitness, Tactics, Attacking, Defending, Team Cohesion, even if you click on defending, the forwards will do training related to their position but with a more overall 'defending' focus. To get specific role focus you need to train them in that.

Or does the game utilize both, i.e. a complete forward schedule is different to a poacher schedule, and in addition there is the extra focus on key attributes?

Don't think so, think the 'general training' is just for forwards, however you can add more emphasis on those specific attributes by increasing personal training workload and reduce the 'general training' intensity.

The minimum I ask is that we still get the power to decide and it seems that some choices are automatically decided by our training coaches. Why not, but please allow us to modify the assignments of players in the position based trainig. Maybe I'm a pain in the *** but what if I want to assign my wingman to the central midfielder training (or fullback training,... because it pleases me :p) but whithout having to make him learn a new position ? Maybe I could find a way through the differents "layers" of training to obtain what I want but it risks to affect at least partially the training of the others wingmen, no ?

I think you can, can't confirm as I'm not in the game but there are a lot of positional options for each player from what I remember, I'm pretty sure I have Adam Lallana's role focus as poacher and he can't play up front.

An other issue is the player condition managment. I'm still not sure about the day rest if it's individual or global (or for a groupe of players) but until now I didn't care a lot because I was used to modify the work load depending on the time each player played and when I think to use them again. But now with this new training I can't modify the load for a player whithout changing the load for all the players in the same position based training. Am I right ?

So I can't manage the load individually except maybe with the day rest which cause (or at least caused in FM12) a loss of fitness and match exercise therefore decreases performance of the player on the field.

As far as I understand you can add a general rest day before and after a match for the whole squad. You can then add individual rest to specific players by talking to them.

I'm really confused about match preparation. Moving the slider changes the days in the calendar.

0-10% - 0 days taken for match training. No option to change the focus in the calendar. Are they training at all?!

20-40% - 1 day taken for match training

50% - 2 days taken for match training

Now, are those days on the calendar, days where players won't train for attributes at all, only match training? It is really unclear. If I choose "allow rest before match", the rest day is always before the match training day(s). At 10% the rest day is right before the match itself. So then match preparation is occurring the same day as the match? Therefore, generally, match day is also training day? I doubt attributes are being trained on match day, it would be wrong. So if we assume that match training days are only for match training, then what is the point having it at 20% and not 40% when you always lose 1 day of attribute training? The scheduling slider is really unclear with the way it affects the calendar.

It may sound confusing, but I didn't want to litter the thread with my giant screenshots. Run the game and you'll see what I mean.

We need you Riz Remes :)

And another thing. With no rest days and match preparation 0 there are 21 training days and 7 matches in my next 4 weeks. With match training 50% there are 7 training days and 14 match preparation days. How is that 50% of 21?

Since the difference between 1 and 2 days of match preparation is only from 40% to 50%, i.e. 10%, we can argue that most of the second (or first) day marked "Match preparation" will be padded with general training. But then the "allow rest" isn't really a rest, because it comes always before the match training days. So it is perfectly possible that my squad will be intensively lifting weights a day before the match?!

O days doesn't mean no training, it just means they won't spend a whole day on it. You also have to remember some time is spent on individual training and positional general training so those will take up training days. A rest day will be a rest day, it's a whole day. so the extra match preparation that doesn't fit into a whole day will take up time from the general training days. So if you have 5 days assigned to general and match preparation training and you have it at 50/50, 2 and half days will be spent on each.

Just remember that a certain amount of time is allocated for match prep and team general training, adjusting the slider will weight those days between the two. The team will be doing other training though at different times.

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A quick note on the slider and the calendar display, even if the graphical display shows 0 days for match prep training but the slider is not at the very end (meaning none for match prep) there will be some match prep work done on match day. Same with the higher settings for match prep, even if they take multiple days from the calendar it does not mean that these days will be fully used for just match prep training.

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Yes, the team have positional based 'General Training' and the whole team is on the same schedule, see above about 'General Training', which can be done in certain areas, Fitness, Tactics, Attacking, Defending, Team Cohesion, even if you click on defending, the forwards will do training related to their position but with a more overall 'defending' focus. To get specific role focus you need to train them in that.

Just to clear some things up by a 'schedule' I mean 'a particular slider setup', but if I'm reading you right we are both thinking the same thing - the team does indeed seem to be on 'the same schedule' - simply because you do not see any indication saying otherwise (until you assign focus), but different positions are actually using different schedules, i.e. forwards training as per a 'forward schedule', defenders have their own etc. - presumably along the lines of the pre-made def-mid-fwd schedules from last year - all of which are in turn influenced by any general training approach the player might pick ('Tactics' or 'Defending' etc.).

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A quick note on the slider and the calendar display, even if the graphical display shows 0 days for match prep training but the slider is not at the very end (meaning none for match prep) there will be some match prep work done on match day. Same with the higher settings for match prep, even if they take multiple days from the calendar it does not mean that these days will be fully used for just match prep training.
That's nice, but there should be some indication on the calendar what part of the day is allocated to match preparation so we can decide if the team is getting enough general training or we should remove some rest days.

Here is how confusing the default scheduling looks after my team turned professional:

y3545l.jpg

It seems they are training just 3 of 21 possible days, but you say there is some general training happening on those "match preparation" days. You can do something with the colours to indicate that.

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Just to clear some things up by a 'schedule' I mean 'a particular slider setup', but if I'm reading you right we are both thinking the same thing - the team does indeed seem to be on 'the same schedule' - simply because you do not see any indication saying otherwise (until you assign focus), but different positions are actually using different schedules, i.e. forwards training as per a 'forward schedule', defenders have their own etc. - presumably along the lines of the pre-made def-mid-fwd schedules from last year - all of which are in turn influenced by any general training approach the player might pick ('Tactics' or 'Defending' etc.).

Yes I think we are, there are some general position specific training going on all the time, which I think essentially breaks down into GKs, Defender, Midfielders, Forwards. Naks explains it quite well in his first section about layers.

This is pretty much what I would call 'Core' training, it's based purely on a players natural position (or over time where you play them), We have no control over what this is, who is in it. You then have some team general training that can be focused in different areas (attacking/defending/fitness etc) and match preparation. Time on each of these is split by the slider.

Then on top of that you have individual focus.

The core position based training will always be there despite what else you do, so the players will always train generally for their position.

So you have:-

1. Core position training (GK, DEF, MID, FW)

2. General Training (Fitness, Defence, Attacking, Cohesion ) and/or Match Preparation Training

3. Individual Training (Role or Specific attribute + PPM + New Position)

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@Toughguy

Yes, I think we are all on the same line here and I completely agree with what tajjuk is saying.

Thanks for your useful explanations Riz. I still have some question though

- Basically, individual workload (PPM, New Position and "single attribute focus or role focus") is not taken out of general training workload anymore.

- I have a slider (main one right in the center) to decide what % of workload I want for match prep and general training, say 50-50%

- Default intensity drop down menu under General training tab control training intensity for both general training and team focus intensity.

- Default focus drop down menu under General training tab is about the team focus by default for each week

- I can override both team focus choice and team focus intensity using the two drop down menus on a weekly basis

- How works "default intensity" under General training tab? I made the assumption it is a 1/5 (very low), 2/5 (low) 3/5 (average) 4/5 (hard) and 5/5 (very hard) multiplicator of the iniatila 50% worklaod. So with 50% initial workload assigned to general training, after default intensity multiplier it would be respectively 10%, 20%, 30% 40% and max 50%?

- Is team focus workload taken out of general training workload? If yes how?

Thanks again.

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@Toughguy

Yes, I think we are all on the same line here and I completely agree with what tajjuk is saying.

Thanks for your useful explanations Riz. I still have some question though

- Basically, individual workload (PPM, New Position and "single attribute focus or role focus") is not taken out of general training workload anymore.

- I have a slider (main one right in the center) to decide what % of workload I want for match prep and general training, say 50-50%

- Default intensity drop down menu under General training tab control training intensity for both general training and team focus intensity.

- Default focus drop down menu under General training tab is about the team focus by default for each week

- I can override both team focus choice and team focus intensity using the two drop down menus on a weekly basis

- How works "default intensity" under General training tab? I made the assumption it is a 1/5 (very low), 2/5 (low) 3/5 (average) 4/5 (hard) and 5/5 (very hard) multiplicator of the iniatila 50% worklaod. So with 50% initial workload assigned to general training, after default intensity multiplier it would be respectively 10%, 20%, 30% 40% and max 50%?

- Is team focus workload taken out of general training workload? If yes how?

Thanks again.

This is the section I don't get, would be good to know how much time is taken up by 'core' general training and whether the general training intensity is time out of this time or added on top.

So if general training intensity is very low (so 1/5) , then 'General Training' time will be 4/5ths of the time on core position training (the background default GK/DEF/MID/FW) and 1/5th on whatever the focus is (Defence, Tactics, Cohesion, etc.)

As an example the team gets 5 days for all general team training, on the lowest intensity for default focus they will spend 4 days doing general training related to their positions say forward and then 1 day on whole team training with the focus on say defending.

OR

The team will always spend X amount of time on core position training (the background default GK/DEF/MID/FW) regardless of any other settings.

They will then do some General Training with default focus (Defence, Tactics, Cohesion, etc.) and the higher the intensity the more additional time is spent on this and Match Preparation.

As an example the team always spend 1 day on basic positional related training and say 3 days split between Team General Training and Match Preparation. If you increase the intensity on 'default' focus they will spend even more time on general training.

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Well, I am confused to be honest.

Riz stated that "The "intensity" setting in general training will affect all of general training, not just the focus set for that week (or the default)." (sic)

I was first thinking like you with your first option. That is to say, the default intensity drop down menu (blue one on the pic) was only controlling team focus intensity and I can override weekly if I wish. But that's not true if I undertsand Riz well. Basically, the "default intensity" under general training tab control both "general training - core trainnig - positional training" intensity and and default intensity for team focus. But you are able to override team intensity focus (and team focus - yellow) on a weekly basis (green on the pic).

So If i have 50% workload for general training and default intensity set to average (so 30% if the 3/5 assumption is correct). I set team focus defense not overriding team focus intensity, do I have 3/5 of 30% so 18% assigned to team focus? Make no sense for me. For example, if default intensity is very high so 50% (5/5) and I choose defence not overriding team focus intensitu, I have 5/5 of 50% so 50% assigned to team focus and no general training? Can't be true. So maybe your second proposition is the correct one. The simplest the better!

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Well, I am confused to be honest.

Riz stated that "The "intensity" setting in general training will affect all of general training, not just the focus set for that week (or the default)." (sic)

I was first thinking like you with your first option. That is to say, the default intensity drop down menu (blue one on the pic) was only controlling team focus intensity and I can override weekly if I wish. But that's not true if I undertsand Riz well. Basically, the "default intensity" under general training tab control both "general training - core trainnig - positional training" intensity and and default intensity for team focus. But you are able to override team intensity focus (and team focus - yellow) on a weekly basis (green on the pic).

So If i have 50% workload for general training and default intensity set to average (so 30% if the 3/5 assumption is correct). I set team focus defense not overriding team focus intensity, do I have 3/5 of 30% so 18% assigned to team focus? Make no sense for me. For example, if default intensity is very high so 50% (5/5) and I choose defence not overriding team focus intensitu, I have 5/5 of 50% so 50% assigned to team focus and no general training? Can't be true. So maybe your second proposition is the correct one. The simplest the better!

I have no idea confused as well, the first option is more desirable I reckon because it should mean you can get your players working on attributes more than team related stuff by fiddling with intensity, but then if you need a quick burst of a few weeks of fitness you can up the intensity. However it means that you wouldn't be able to adjust the workload.

I reckon:-

There must be a maximum and a minimum amount of time available for 1, General 'Core position' training AND 2. General 'Team Focus' Training AND 3. Match Preparation training. (Individual training focus is then time added on top).

You can have 0 time for 3, by adjusting the central slider, allocating all the time to 1 & 2.

The time spent on 1 and 2, is decided by the central slider and the 'default focus'. It's whether default focus controls the whole time spent on general training (1 & 2) or how much time allocated from 1 is spent on 2.

Would be good to get this cleared up and the issue about rest days and who is actually resting.

Then we could produce a comprehensive guide to the new training.

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I think you can, can't confirm as I'm not in the game but there are a lot of positional options for each player from what I remember, I'm pretty sure I have Adam Lallana's role focus as poacher and he can't play up front.

OK ! I'm sorry I don't have the beta to test it so I only based my reflection on what I read in this topic. I might have misunderstand the explanation of the new UI training by NakS or maybe I wasn't clear enough in my previous post. NakS said

First “layer” of training is a position based general training. Training staff is putting automatically each player in a position based general training schedule according to his natural position. If a player is playing regularly by the manager in another position, then the coaching staff affects the player in the corresponding positional schedule. If a player is trained in a new position, the player is affect as well to the corresponding positional schedule by the coaching staff. Position based schedule fits standards requirements for each position. In others words forwards train more in attack than defenders. However we are not able to customize these positional schedule nor control who is in each schedule, it is only positioned based as explained above.
So is there something I didn't understand or a new information I missed ?

EDIT : OK I read in one of your post that what you call 'Core training' and what I called 'position based training' are the same. So we agree we have no control at all on it. That's what I'd like to be able to modify. At least I'd like to decide who is going in what training whithout having to make him play in an other position or make him learn a new position.

As far as I understand you can add a general rest day before and after a match for the whole squad. You can then add individual rest to specific players by talking to them.

OK but I still can't manage the training workload individually. So I will not only have to use rest day -which caused in FM12 a lost of condition and match exercise (equal to lost of performance, increase attritions on player's attributes)- but I'll have to use it for the whole team. Then, if I want to, I can add some rest individually ! In brief if I want to make one player recover his condition faster

1- I can't decrease individually the "total" training workload as I was used to. :(

2- I have to rest first the whole team ??? including those who didn't play the last game and/or those I won't use for the next ??? :eek:

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@ghyom

Basically, I was talking about "positional based schedule" which we have no access to, in general training. tajjuk was talking about "individual focus" more precisely "role focus". The former is about "generic" training (ie categories, old schedules) and the latter is about attributes trainings. For example, you could train a forward as a poacher or a trequartista as an individual focus.

Hope it clears things up ;)

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I havent played it yet, i assumed there isnt a tick box that you can select to give players under a certain condition level a rest before or after games? the same should go for auto player selection with a few tick boxes/sliders for certain squad selection criteria.

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Riz, I suspect the answer is no, but could you clear something up for me: other than training a new position, can you select a role focus that isn't part of a player's position.

cheers

xxx

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