Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community
haunted1234

Anyone else too many goals??

Recommended Posts

From the few test seasons I've done based on the Championship (bearing in mind that it's different for each league), it would seem there are 14% more goals scored on FM than one would expect in a season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Main reason for this is imo the horrible defensive behavior of teams and the god awful goal keepers while even West Brom now can pass the ball around like Barca.

Not a good mix, the match engine needs a lot of work on the defensive end imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
newcastlevswanseaovervi.png

My 1st game

I was 2-0 down

That's ridiculously unrealistic. Not the scoreline, the fact that Mike Williamson scored :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Loki679 where did you get that skin mate

I've had it since I was born. If you're referring to the FM skin then it's not my pic, I just quoted it ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Loki679 where did you get that skin mate

That's the default skin, it's how it appears within match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe as old FM's the match engine is only a visual simulation of the spreadsheet calculating away in the background. So for some of it you can ignore the positiong it is just creating that opportunity in a graphic sense. Would be good if an official rep can confirm this though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well look at the teams your playing, this isn't exactly manchester vs chelsea which is usually 1-0 or 2-1. The quality in goalkeepers and defenders in your league must be atrocious, they probably let in half of the shots that head in the general direction of the net.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
well look at the teams your playing, this isn't exactly manchester vs chelsea which is usually 1-0 or 2-1. The quality in goalkeepers and defenders in your league must be atrocious, they probably let in half of the shots that head in the general direction of the net.

What are you talking about? The two teams finished 5th and 11th in the premier league last season. It's not exactly Bognor vs Accrington.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's the default skin, it's how it appears within match.

Yeah..whats up with that. First its all white and we are blinded then we get to the match screen and its all black and we cant see a thing since we are all snow blinded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah there are probably slightly too many and we will try to fine tune it for release proper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Further to this - had a quick look at our internal English League test and the average per match is around 2.95. So yes, a tad high. Should be closer to 2.75 or thereabouts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am finding this although not far in, so far my Chelsea team has 83 (62 for, 21 against) goals in 17 games at 4.88 goals a game.

Also I am finding a large number of our goals scored coming from crosses 34, whereas only 29 from normal passes. Not sure if this is typical or not, but it certainly feels

like too many playing the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah there are probably slightly too many and we will try to fine tune it for release proper.

Hi PaulC.

You might wanna have a look at floating crosses from one winger to the other.

It's incredibly easy to score goals if you have two fast, quality wingers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Further to this - had a quick look at our internal English League test and the average per match is around 2.95. So yes, a tad high. Should be closer to 2.75 or thereabouts.

I would prefer something like 2.60 as Francis does. The number of goals is really taking away the fun for me. 6:2, 3:4, 5:2...Also the problem with the crosses is really annoying to be honest.

Paul, is it possible to sort this out for the release patch or will this take longer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No idea why SI just don't take the last updated ME from FM12, give it a few updates and use it again for FM13. Feels like we're starting from scratch again :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ye kind of made the game **** when in my 1st match I beat Burnley 13-0 with Man Utd, then next season we beat Chelsea 7-4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd argue 2.75 would be on the higher end of average, with 2.77 - 2.56 being the averages expected. http://www.soccervista.com/soccer_leagues_ordered_by_number_of_goals.php

according to this site

poland first division has average goals of 2.56

so i sat down and did the math on the seasons i already got, interesting results i came across

year average goals per game

12/13 3.00

13/14 2.96

14/15 3.411!!

15/16 2.18 (omg? what happened?)

16/17 2.23

17/18 2.36

18/19 2.36

so iam no engine expert or whatever but my interpretation of these results are either the match engine is a little broken + the starting players are vastly overrated scoring so many goals within the first 3 years of the game.. later they getting older and new players come along (which are naturally all horrible in poland :D) the average goals per match drop... extremly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there no way you guys can add it in a patch before release? i mean were all using steam and it's quite straight forward in releasing patches right?

Either way, i am enjoying the game, but for the first time in an FM game i just can't win as Torquay. I know you like to underrate us a lot, :p but being 3-0 up to Northampton and then having them score 4 goals in the last 15 minutes just infuriates me. :(

Maybe Today's real football results will cheer me up. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Further to this - had a quick look at our internal English League test and the average per match is around 2.95. So yes, a tad high. Should be closer to 2.75 or thereabouts.

As others have mentioned, 2.75 is far too high if you are referring to the Championship which for the past 9 seasons has averaged 2.57, though recently it has been higher, 2.63 for the past 3 seasons. 2.6 or so would be a reasonable figure. I believe League 1+2 are consistently higher than the Championship but nowhere near 2.75. The Premiership IS however higher, at around 2.75.

Are you currently applying league averages across an entire country? It would be flawed to do so if so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As others have mentioned, 2.75 is far too high if you are referring to the Championship which for the past 9 seasons has averaged 2.57, though recently it has been higher, 2.63 for the past 3 seasons. 2.6 or so would be a reasonable figure. I believe League 1+2 are consistently higher than the Championship but nowhere near 2.75. The Premiership IS however higher, at around 2.75.

I agree with that. FM should be as realistic as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Match engine is broken, those crosses are just unrealistic. Defenders or goalkeeper can rarely make interception and ball almost always somehow finds its way to goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As others have mentioned, 2.75 is far too high if you are referring to the Championship which for the past 9 seasons has averaged 2.57, though recently it has been higher, 2.63 for the past 3 seasons. 2.6 or so would be a reasonable figure. I believe League 1+2 are consistently higher than the Championship but nowhere near 2.75. The Premiership IS however higher, at around 2.75.

Are you currently applying league averages across an entire country? It would be flawed to do so if so.

I would make the presumption that it's not possible at the moment to code per league, hence why I'd rather it at a lower average so it's more balanced throughout all the leagues rather than applying an extreme across them.

There's a theory put forwards here that the more competitive a league is, the less goal are scored. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yRm6JbyX06oC&pg=PA138&lpg=PA138&dq=premier+league+average+goals+per+game&source=bl&ots=Qeipn1Emzd&sig=fJ61sTmCp0bVbgujxvwdpVqAKHU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yuSCULqnG-bO0QXLsYDIBA&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=premier%20league%20average%20goals%20per%20game&f=false

If that is the case, maybe in future FMs it could be coded that the range in CA between teams in a league would factor that leagues average goals per game? E.g. something like 2.3 in a league where the difference is negligible, compared to 2.9 in a league where the difference in quality between the top and the bottom is vast.

I certainly don't think it helps in FM either that a league that's running without a human manager will produce a goal total on the lower side of average, compared to the human league producing a higher than average result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In real footy generally the lower down the pyramid you are' date=' the more goals are scored! :D[/quote']

Pretty sure the opposite is true in many cases.

I would make the presumption that it's not possible at the moment to code per league, hence why I'd rather it at a lower average so it's more balanced throughout all the leagues rather than applying an extreme across them.

There's a theory put forwards here that the more competitive a league is, the less goal are scored. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=y...20game&f=false

If that is the case, maybe in future FMs it could be coded that the range in CA between teams in a league would factor that leagues average goals per game? E.g. something like 2.3 in a league where the difference is negligible, compared to 2.9 in a league where the difference in quality between the top and the bottom is vast.

I certainly don't think it helps in FM either that a league that's running without a human manager will produce a goal total on the lower side of average, compared to the human league producing a higher than average result.

Yes, more competitive leagues on average will produce less goals (I believe it's because you have less mismatches ala Barcelona vs Granada say which produce on average loads of goals). The match engine should just work so that goals skews upwards in those leagues - so, taking the previous example, Barcelona vs Granada produces above average goals. I'd be surprised if this weren't the case already.

fwiw most of the difference in leagues irl is in mentality, hence why France/Greece are very low and Netherlands/Germany very high. I wonder if FM currently models this via the manager mentalities/types of players within the leagues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have to admit that I've noticed my defence is non existent and also ghost like at times as players manage to either run through with no tackle or attempt of a tackle or the opposition manage to stick there leg through there body to get to the ball first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm currently at 3,9 goals per game, and there are rarely under 30 shots in a match. I don't think I'm playing a particularly attacking tactic (451 with counter philosophy). Aside from the poor defending on far post crosses, teams get plenty of time to pass around 20-30 metres from the opponent's goal, which leads to loads of long shots. Collision detection seems wonky too, players just pass through each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm currently at 3,9 goals per game, and there are rarely under 30 shots in a match. I don't think I'm playing a particularly attacking tactic (451 with counter philosophy). Aside from the poor defending on far post crosses, teams get plenty of time to pass around 20-30 metres from the opponent's goal, which leads to loads of long shots. Collision detection seems wonky too, players just pass through each other.

this.

every match ends with like 25 shots 9 on target vs 18 shots 6 on target... stats like this every game...

beta is unplayable with that engine, gonna quit till next patch, feel stupid to continue in a league where on average are 3,xx goals per game... feel like iam playing ice hockey manager

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe an idea would be to boost the defensive attributes and team-work etc so much that no goals are scored at all, then take it from there?

After all, at the highest level both teams are so good at defense that it shouldn't be possible to score at all. Yet, goals are scored anyway. That's the magic of football and why players like Messi and Ronaldo are so highly regarded. Against guys like that you can defend perfectly and still concede.

I watched Tottenham-Chelsea on the TV today and I saw Defoe have a good game. He is not famous for being a technically gifted player; he's fast, strong and has a good shot. Not the best striker in the world, but he scored his 200th career goal today? I thought that if he, in his current form, were suddenly transfered to a team in the Norwegian League he would certainly be among the best technical and most creative/playmaker-like there. I am quite convinced that the "limited poacher" Defoe would dominate at that level, appearing more like Rooney on the pitch; taking those defensive runs to pick up the ball, playing through balls, take the free-kicks and just be everywhere.

In PL, which is "the highest level", his ability to do those things aren't extreme enough because the defenders are just as good as him or even better. There is no time, no space, things happen so quickly and with so much at stake that everything is instinctual. One player that can do those things at this level is Mata, which Tottenham experienced first-hand today. Gallas was good and is a very good defender but his clearances (composure) wasn't good enough today and a costly mistake from him and Walker tipped the game in Chelsea's favour. It shouldn't be possible to score four goals against Tottenham, but Chelsea did this because of mistakes and amazing skill.

FM doesn't reflect this. Even FM12 had plenty of space in which the attackrs do what they please, and plenty of time to figure out what to do. If FM13 is still one-against-one where the F and AM strata are not partaking in the defensive phase and the M strata only barely so, which this thread suggests, I will be deeply disappointed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad it's not just me then. Beat Carlisle 8-0 and drew 3-3 with Crewe in the few league games I've played!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My issue seems to be not letting in enough goals. I've scored the most in the division, 34 after 17 games (which seems high, but I'm not sure what average for a top of the league side should be after that many games played), with nearby teams in the high 20's and a couple in the low 30's, but I only seem to have let in 8 with the next tightest being 14. I've had 10 clean sheets in 17.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i always scored loads in FM12. i remember on my last save, on FM12 this season alone i have had a few games won 5-2 6-2 5-0, 7-1 etc, Man utd won one 10-0 barca and madrid notched up an 8-0 and 7-0 and swansea won a game 7-2. so i dunno what the differance is, my united team on classic won 3-1 against a US team, looks ok to me. i'm guessing it is because the ME is a bit more believable in the finishing department this time, rather then people hitting tap ins at goal keepers, or skying from 2 foot.

ok

a 4-3 win in a friendly against crewe, hit the woodwork 4 times to boot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I played a few more matches and i really cant agree with Paul that there are SLIGHTLY to many goals. 6-5, 3-4 and so on. For me this is not slightly, but it makes the game UNPLAYBABLE. Its not enough to just tweak a little bit, there have to be done massive changes. Im usually not the kind of guy who calls a game unplayable when not everything works perfect, but this is no fun anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone know how Barcelona got on last night? ;-)

Look, this is a beta. I didnt get overly obsessive about the goals per game for it because I wanted to make other changes deemed more important. But yes I am aiming for slightly less for the first ME update. Whether that will match real life stats 100% exactly I doubt, but hopefully a few less games with 7 or more goals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone know how Barcelona got on last night? ;-)

Look, this is a beta. I didnt get overly obsessive about the goals per game for it because I wanted to make other changes deemed more important. But yes I am aiming for slightly less for the first ME update. Whether that will match real life stats 100% exactly I doubt, but hopefully a few less games with 7 or more goals.

That's sounds good to me. Will the goals converted from crosses be tuned in the next ME update?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This seems way more severe for me then people are deeming it here. I played four league games with Benfica (giants in the Portuguese league, so they shouldn't concede very much at all), and in those 4 games there were 27 goals scored! That's an average of almost 7 goals per game!

My tactic isn't super attack oriented at all (4x2x3x1 with 1 MDC & 1 MC), so this really looks like an engine-side problem.

Add to that the shocking AI shown during the matches by the players (mine and opponents) and it is extremely disappointing. I really hope the game gets thoroughly improved with its proper release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...