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Cleon

Ideas For a Thread?

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With FM13 just around the corner I've been thinking of ideas for the type of thread I'll be doing this year. It'll be quite simliar to the SI Sports Centre thread at the top of forum but contain different things. So I'm looking for ideas and feedback from the community to see the types of things they'd like to see in a thread.

It doesn't mean I will deffo include them in the thread but if there is enough people asking for certain aspects I'm sure I can do something to incorporate them into the thread somehow. So far this is what I was aiming for;

Start with Sheffield FC or Sheffield United. United are my favourite team but I'm guessing people would learn a lot more from the Sheffield FC save instead? As they start way down in the Evo leagues. So you'd see the players and systems I used as I try and get to the top of the Prem and Champions Legaue football would be the ultimate goal.

Focus on players and their developments, track everything interms of training, tutoring, playtime etc

Squad development and how I try and create a certain playing style over a period of 10+ seasons

Discussing why my tactic works and exactly how it beats other types of formations.

As I only plan on doing 1 save this year I'm fairly certain I can create something which is very detailed and give a real insight into how the game works and focus on that side of the game.

So what do people think?

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A guide on the obvious weaknesses and strengths of the most common systems I think would be useful for people to see.

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I like the idea of how one formation beats another formation. Sheffield FC save I think will be more beneficial to most people and would encourage them to start at the very lowest leagues. Myself will be starting with Sutton United as I have just moved to Sutton.

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A guide on the obvious weaknesses and strengths of the most common systems I think would be useful for people to see.
I like the idea of how one formation beats another formation. Sheffield FC save I think will be more beneficial to most people and would encourage them to start at the very lowest leagues. Myself will be starting with Sutton United as I have just moved to Sutton.

Aye that's the plan so far :)

Would would it take to get people actually involved in a thread and get them questioning things? A discussion between just a few people isn't worth all the effort sometimes. So how could I get more people involved in the actual thread?

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Ask them to submitt their formations and playing styles, to open up their ideas to the forum, leading to plenty of discussion ?

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Ask them to submitt their formations and playing styles, to open up their ideas to the forum, leading to plenty of discussion ?

Isn't that what the whole forum already does?

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Isn't that what the whole forum already does?

What I mean is with the forum threads that people start, a lot of time and effort goes into them, to produce a nice piece about a formation. There might be a lot of people who do not have the time to produce such threads. Or maybe they are trying with something and are just a bit short and need some inspiration.

There could be a thread, supplementary to the one you are doing, asking for a simple screenshot and a short paragraph or two about what they are trying to achive, be it playing style, training or whatever. There could be lots of different discussion starters within one thread.

Just an idea to help stimulate interest and discussion.

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I would like to see the Sheffield FC save. It would be interesting to see the evolution of the squad. Maybe outline what style you ultimately want to achieve at the beginning and how you go about designing that.

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What I mean is with the forum threads that people start, a lot of time and effort goes into them, to produce a nice piece about a formation. There might be a lot of people who do not have the time to produce such threads. Or maybe they are trying with something and are just a bit short and need some inspiration.

There could be a thread, supplementary to the one you are doing, asking for a simple screenshot and a short paragraph or two about what they are trying to achive, be it playing style, training or whatever. There could be lots of different discussion starters within one thread.

Just an idea to help stimulate interest and discussion.

There are already lots and lots of threads like that already though. You only have to look through the SI Sports Centre discussion thread to see what I mean, I did that this year.Plus remember I asked what people wanted to see from me in terms of threads.

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I'd also like the Sheffield FC save. I'd like to read about squad building, especially over a long period.

Can't think about a topic beyond those in the OP though.

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I'd also like the Sheffield FC save. I'd like to read about squad building, especially over a long period.

Can't think about a topic beyond those in the OP though.

Yeah I think this is the way to go especially as squad building takes a long time to achieve.

Plus I'm sure I'd end up using many different typesof tactics over the seasons.

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With FM13 just around the corner I've been thinking of ideas for the type of thread I'll be doing this year. It'll be quite simliar to the SI Sports Centre thread at the top of forum but contain different things. So I'm looking for ideas and feedback from the community to see the types of things they'd like to see in a thread.

It doesn't mean I will deffo include them in the thread but if there is enough people asking for certain aspects I'm sure I can do something to incorporate them into the thread somehow. So far this is what I was aiming for;

Start with Sheffield FC or Sheffield United. United are my favourite team but I'm guessing people would learn a lot more from the Sheffield FC save instead? As they start way down in the Evo leagues. So you'd see the players and systems I used as I try and get to the top of the Prem and Champions Legaue football would be the ultimate goal.

Focus on players and their developments, track everything interms of training, tutoring, playtime etc

Squad development and how I try and create a certain playing style over a period of 10+ seasons

Discussing why my tactic works and exactly how it beats other types of formations.

As I only plan on doing 1 save this year I'm fairly certain I can create something which is very detailed and give a real insight into how the game works and focus on that side of the game.

So what do people think?

Cleon,

This sounds great............almost 'BLOG' like.

It would be interesting to kinda 'catch' your thoughts rather than only what makes it onto the pitch. ie.... "you were thinking of training XYZ player into a new role but after looking at the market and a new youth player coming through you decided not too". This sorta stuff probably would not have made it into your previous threads as you didn't actually make a change.

I'm not sure how you would capture your thoughts. Whether you just made lots of small posts as and when they came to mind or if you used 'Word' and just made little entries with dates etc.

It would certainly prompt lots of questions.

So.... I vote a 'blog' style thread.

Regards

LAM

ps. I'll try and come up with some more ideas.

Other Ideas:

1. How about you start with a team of your choice and state within X amount of seasons you will have changed their tactics and formations to something entirely different. ie from a 532 to a 4321 etc etc. Something that means a complete shift in mentality, players, player roles, retraining etc etc.

It doesn't have to be a 'save us from relegation thing', just a shift in direction. The reason I mention this is that there seems to be a slow and steady amount of players moving away from use generated tactics into their own, but one key thing that most seem to be mis-understanding is that it is NOT easy to take over a club and change everything on day one. I often post that you stick with the players and the formation and change slowly over time or you have to purchase new players to play your new formation, but trying to make the current batch play something they are not capable of won't work well.

2. What would also be good is to see regular saves posted. Have something like 4-6 saves per season. 1 at the start (day one), another 4 spread throughout the season and then one on day of the last match. Do this for each season and people can then pick up where they want.

You could even create little competitions at this point (no prizes of course :)). Mid-way through a season, you can challenge people to maintain a certain record - low conceded, high goals, get midfield players to score etc etc. That way people can compare themselves to your achievements.

It would be interesting to see how the goals and performance spread throughout peoples teams fared against yours.

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Cleon,

This sounds great............almost 'BLOG' like.

That was my initial thought a blog type style of thread. It would be a career update, story, tactical analysis and much more.

It would be interesting to kinda 'catch' your thoughts rather than only what makes it onto the pitch. ie.... "you were thinking of training XYZ player into a new role but after looking at the market and a new youth player coming through you decided not too". This sorta stuff probably would not have made it into your previous threads as you didn't actually make a change.

I try and do something different each year if time allows. So this time I thought I'd move away from the 'attributes and how they work' and focus the thread more the areas you mentioned. I make thousands of notes in game so I'll try and include these in the thread.

I'm also thinking about adding my save game quite frequent to so people can see how its progressing and read the notes and actually see how much detail goes into player searches, squad overviews etc. I'm thinking maybe monthly (save game time) but not sure if that many uploades would be over kill? But it would tell the story and make it easier to follow compared to a end of season upload.

I'm not sure how you would capture your thoughts. Whether you just made lots of small posts as and when they came to mind or if you used 'Word' and just made little entries with dates etc.

It would certainly prompt lots of questions.

So.... I vote a 'blog' style thread.

I'm glad you are on the same wave length here, this is exactly what I'll try. I often make a little note in FM and say along the lines of 'he's a **** striker but would make a great MC' and so on. So I could add these notes to the thread and then I can expand on them and answer any questions anyone asked.

Capturing the thought process is very hard so not sure how it would come across but I'm gonna give it a whirl :)

1. How about you start with a team of your choice and state within X amount of seasons you will have changed their tactics and formations to something entirely different. ie from a 532 to a 4321 etc etc. Something that means a complete shift in mentality, players, player roles, retraining etc etc.

This will likely happen naturally. As it'll be my only save and long term some of the formations I use will be deemed as crazy :D. It'll probs change quite a lot over lets say a 10 season period. I might have used 6 different formations and shapes.

It doesn't have to be a 'save us from relegation thing', just a shift in direction. The reason I mention this is that there seems to be a slow and steady amount of players moving away from use generated tactics into their own, but one key thing that most seem to be mis-understanding is that it is NOT easy to take over a club and change everything on day one. I often post that you stick with the players and the formation and change slowly over time or you have to purchase new players to play your new formation, but trying to make the current batch play something they are not capable of won't work well.

Yups.

Sometimes you might not have a budget to bring in reinforcements so have to make do with the players you got. And if you've just got promoted or something then you might feel you have to change shape to tighten up and achieve your seasons expectations. Or you might have got an injury to a star player and can't get any replacement in. So you might be forced to change.

But at the start of the game I'll highlight my long terms goals and describe the style that I'll be aiming to play in x number of seasons. Then I'll focus my player development and squad building around getting the correct personnel in.

2. What would also be good is to see regular saves posted. Have something like 4-6 saves per season. 1 at the start (day one), another 4 spread throughout the season and then one on day of the last match. Do this for each season and people can then pick up where they want.

I'm actually replying at the same time of reading what you've wrote. So I've already touched on this :)

You could even create little competitions at this point (no prizes of course :)). Mid-way through a season, you can challenge people to maintain a certain record - low conceded, high goals, get midfield players to score etc etc. That way people can compare themselves to your achievements.

That would be another aim a bit like the scenario threads I used to post a few years back if you remember?

Another idea was to make the thread more interactive by choosing a side and getting the users to select everything, staff, players, training schedules, tactics etc and then have the games played out in real time. So it would be a maximum of 1-2 games a week. Then we could discuss things a bit like match of the day. But maybe that be better as a seperate thread.

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Create a template message incorparating tactics, instructions, results etc for people to download and enter their combinations.

A bit of thought and innovation will be required to formulate the template, however if did well would reap major interaction among players.

I am often browsing this section but due to time and laziness my input is limited.

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Very exciting......

You touched on something that I can't believe I don't do, which is make notes during games.......... would love to see that in progress.

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Create a template message incorparating tactics, instructions, results etc for people to download and enter their combinations.

A bit of thought and innovation will be required to formulate the template, however if did well would reap major interaction among players.

I am often browsing this section but due to time and laziness my input is limited.

Templates won't really help though I don't think because someone will want to post because the topic/thread interest them and because they want to post. How would a template help get more interested in the thread? Plus I don't really see what you asked above would fit into my game?

Am I missing the point? I think I maybe, so my apologies :)

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Very exciting......

You touched on something that I can't believe I don't do, which is make notes during games.......... would love to see that in progress.

If someone asked me to name one person off the forums who used notes it wpuld have been between you and furious. I honestly thought you'd have loads of them on your saves :D

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Templates won't really help though I don't think because someone will want to post because the topic/thread interest them and because they want to post. How would a template help get more interested in the thread? Plus I don't really see what you asked above would fit into my game?

Am I missing the point? I think I maybe, so my apologies :)

I think he means that you should create a template with fields for tactical set up so players can fill in the fields with what philosophy, team instructions, formation, player roles + duties and explanations of why they do what they do and how it works in game. I suppose that with lots of different people playing the game so differently and seeing things from different perspectives, it could generate a lot of discussion.

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I think he means that you should create a template with fields for tactical set up so players can fill in the fields with what philosophy, team instructions, formation, player roles + duties and explanations of why they do what they do and how it works in game. I suppose that with lots of different people playing the game so differently and seeing things from different perspectives, it could generate a lot of discussion.

I knew I was missing the point :D

So he's on about something more wider than the thread I'll be doing?

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Yeah, it is a nice idea but not something that you can do in a thread about your save :D

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Yeah, it is a nice idea but not something that you can do in a thread about your save :D

I thought I was going mad :D

We actually did have templates up until 2 years ago but no-one was using them so they were removed from the Important Links thread :(

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Personally, I would love to see a detailed explanation on how your tactical set up creates space and uses it. Something similar to furiousuk's "Creating a Potent Tactical System".

I find that sort of thing really fascinating, like how you picture a typical attacking move, in your mind, and how you implement it :)

Edit: Just realised that you did that with the FM12 thread with Ganso, Neymar etc. so ignore my comment :)

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Personally, I would love to see a detailed explanation on how your tactical set up creates space and uses it. Something similar to furiousuk's "Creating a Potent Tactical System".

I find that sort of thing really fascinating, like how you picture a typical attacking move, in your mind, and how you implement it :)

Already got that in the pipeline. As well as the opposite and try and put into words how to defend space even if it doesn't exist yet.

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Already got that in the pipeline. As well as the opposite and try and put into words how to defend space even if it doesn't exist yet.

I really look forward to that because a lot of threads in the forum give you ideas about creating space when attacking but there are not too many about denying/defending space.

I have become so fascinated with this recently and am reading more tactical literature (Bought a few kindle books recommended by Zonal Marking) than playing FM :D

Anyway, apologies for going a bit off topic.

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I really look forward to that because a lot of threads in the forum give you ideas about creating space when attacking but there are not too many about denying/defending space.

I have become so fascinated with this recently and am reading more tactical literature (Bought a few kindle books recommended by Zonal Marking) than playing FM :D

Anyway, apologies for going a bit off topic.

I decided that if I talk about something and how to attack a certain way, its best if I also talk about defending against the same thing rather than have it all about the attacking phases.

Reading tactical books/blogs/stat sites etc is great and something I tend to do more than anything. Have you started to try and implement stuff into FM yet? :D

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I did set up a test tactic the other day after watching Dortmund play City. They were so compact and the distance between Lewandowski and Subotic could not have been more than 30 yards. Also, they pressed so aggressively but kept their shape throughout.

I tried 2 friendlies with a basic 4-2-3-1 set up in terms of player roles and duties. I used a "Very Fluid" philosophy to keep the team compact with high pressing and Zonal Marking to keep the shape. It was probably the best football I have ever seen in FM but I have not yet had a chance to keep experimenting due to work.

It is so weird nowadays, when I watch any football match, I keep making mental notes about how often a player makes runs forward with and without the ball and how often do they try attacking passes or more conservative ones. All to determine the "duty" and "role" they would be on in FM terms. :D

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It wasn't the traditional Dortmund tactics though. Dortmund played like a flat 4-5-1, not a 4-2-3-1. I agree with your team instructions though. Reus and Götze on the flanks got back and ensured the central trio of Bender, Gündogan and Blaszczykowski didn't get dragged too wide. They gave City time to play AT the back but not FROM the back and they were in control throughout. City got a few chances from long balls but that was unavoidable I'd say. They managed to nullify City's strongest guns (Touré, Silva, Nasri) totally and it was really enjoyable to watch.

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Yeah, they did play a 4-5-1 but I was not trying to emulate the tactic itself, rather the playing style and philosophy which should be able to work with any formation and set up. They left no space for City in between their lines, but left the space in behind or in front so city had to go over the top.

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I decided that if I talk about something and how to attack a certain way, its best if I also talk about defending against the same thing rather than have it all about the attacking phases.

I would say that instead of describing how you would defend against your own attacking way, it would be more suiting to instead describe how you would defend when choosing your attacking way. This is the core of tactic-making. How to score and how to defend? In overall you choose between three gameplans, defensive, balanced or attacking. When choosing to play defensive you still need to be able to threat the opponents. When choosing to play an attacking game, you still need a plan on how to defend.

What are the pro and cons for each formation related to available space, space you need to cover in your own formational set-up. Which space will you be able to threat when using this formation.

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I would say that instead of describing how you would defend against your own attacking way, it would be more suiting to instead describe how you would defend when choosing your attacking way. This is the core of tactic-making. How to score and how to defend? In overall you choose between three gameplans, defensive, balanced or attacking. When choosing to play defensive you still need to be able to threat the opponents. When choosing to play an attacking game, you still need a plan on how to defend.

What are the pro and cons for each formation related to available space, space you need to cover in your own formational set-up. Which space will you be able to threat when using this formation.

I don't play that way. I am a reactive manager so I decide on the best way to attack/defend from ingame events. What I see happening in front of me determines how I play and exploit space and how I should defend.

I also don't agree about the 3 game plans, there are a lot more imo:)

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I will be interested to see squad building and training especially with training changing for FM13. What I would like to see most is how you react when things are going against you, people talk about how they won games 5-0 but for me it's much more interesting to see how people win games 5-2 after being 2-0 down, how they turned around going behind with 20 minutes left or how they handle 2,3,4 or more bad results in a row. I expect that at some points during your game things will go against you like they do every FM player that is the most interesting part.

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I will be interested to see squad building and training especially with training changing for FM13. What I would like to see most is how you react when things are going against you, people talk about how they won games 5-0 but for me it's much more interesting to see how people win games 5-2 after being 2-0 down, how they turned around going behind with 20 minutes left or how they handle 2,3,4 or more bad results in a row. I expect that at some points during your game things will go against you like they do every FM player that is the most interesting part.

Yeah that's why I'm leaning more and more towards Sheffield FC. As the games will be more varied and less dominance from me to begin with. It will be really hard work.

Although if truth be told I fancy playing in Brazil again too the bottom leagues :(

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Yeah that's why I'm leaning more and more towards Sheffield FC. As the games will be more varied and less dominance from me to begin with. It will be really hard work.

Although if truth be told I fancy playing in Brazil again too the bottom leagues :(

That's where I'm starting been messing on FM12 in the Brazilian 3rd division waiting for FM13.

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Although if truth be told I fancy playing in Brazil again too the bottom leagues :(

Two games a week you said and then you say you want to play in Brazil...... in that case I assume you will not be purchasing FM 2014, 2015, 2016 or 2017 then :)

I think, like I pointed out above, a more blog style post would be outstanding.

There is no denying your ability in this game, thus, I want to see inside your head!

Just a lot of "..... and this is why I did it" will work nicely for me.

ps. I've only just realised that I have read nothing about FM2013, someone mentioned training changing......... I must go read now.

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The 2 games a week was for the 2nd idea I had, not the initial thread :D

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The 2 games a week was for the 2nd idea I had, not the initial thread :D

A whole 104 games in a year long save. And thought I was slow usually taking around two weeks or so for a season. :D

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I'll be keeping an eye on this for sure, Cleon. I think this will be a massive help to a lot of people (and just a damn good read as well). The "blog" aspect with various thoughts/ideas of yours that you then might change as new things happen will certainly show users that it's okay to not just have one formula.

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Firstly I like to see you manage a lower league team, Sheffield Fc would be ok, this should help people to understand what attributes are really important for certain roles and how things change after you raise the football league pyramid.

A blog style would be a nice twist for your thread: a career update as a starting point to talk about tactics, players, training and team building.

If such a thing won't appeal to this community, I'd be ready to involve you as a guest writer for my own blog. :D

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I would like you to make vids if possible with commentary on what you thinking is going wrong in games, why you may think so and how you plan to combat it

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There will be the odd video but there wont be many. They are far to time consuming to do regular and take an age to convert and upload. So until SI sort out making videos more user friendly I'll not be using them. They get extracted from the game in a format that editing software doesn't reconise, what use is that? :(

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They get extracted from the game in a format that editing software doesn't reconise, what use is that? :(

This is very odd, when I need to edit them I have to download those videos from youtube and uploading them once again after the process, such an incredible waste of time.

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I would definitely like to see a save in Brazil as tactics used seem to be much more varied. Also, it's great fun with the structure of the leagues being so different from what we're used to when watching European sides. As your team grows you can use the regional competitions to actually try out some wicked tactis as that's where the game will be easists. Basically instead of Santos, what about creating your own team from scratch many leagues down?

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I would definitely like to see a save in Brazil as tactics used seem to be much more varied. Also, it's great fun with the structure of the leagues being so different from what we're used to when watching European sides. As your team grows you can use the regional competitions to actually try out some wicked tactis as that's where the game will be easists. Basically instead of Santos, what about creating your own team from scratch many leagues down?

If I go Brazilian route I'll use one of the teams in the 3rd Divsion I think rather than create from scratch.

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If I go Brazilian route I'll use one of the teams in the 3rd Divsion I think rather than create from scratch.

That was exactly what I meant. Not create a new team as in edit something, but 'create' as in make your own way to the top where you bring in all your own players, all your own staff to create the identity you want. That sort of creation. Creating a competitive top team from basically nothing.

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would be good to show goals you conceed/ games you lose and explain what went wrong, not just what goes right. i would also be interested in how different formations play against each other as mentioned above.

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I've made a start writing up what is happening and how I play the game. However the thread wont be posted until next weekend at the very earliest. I'm away for a few days from tomorrow so wont have any free time. However I think you'll all be impressed with the direction I'm taking things.

I took over Paysandu in Brazil's 3rd tier. It seems that the thread will be focusing on the actual roles with-in the shape I use and how it differs between the different kinds of players I have for the same positions. That way you'll understand why my system works and work.

It's the same for transfers you'll see my searching and scouting players to play particular roles and do certain jobs inside the system I use. All the things mentioned in the posts above will still be included as well. It's a really indepth project and makes the SI Sports Centre thread I did look crap :)

I decided to post here to update as I'm getting a lot of PM's asking when I'll have something out etc :)

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Can't wait!!!

Have a nice couple of days!

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I think he means that you should create a template with fields for tactical set up so players can fill in the fields with what philosophy, team instructions, formation, player roles + duties and explanations of why they do what they do and how it works in game. I suppose that with lots of different people playing the game so differently and seeing things from different perspectives, it could generate a lot of discussion.
Actually what's more relevant than a template is a system. The days of downloading a super tactic are long. It's time to start looking at how one can adopt a system of play and adapt it across any team that they play. That will be the focus of my blog. Essentially what people need to understand is how to translate football logic into FM logic. With shouts its really become simple. For a lot of the hardcore tacticians its instinctual now..Going forward what people need to master are the templates within the tactical creator, get them right and you can graduate to custom classic tactics.

Crikey half my post disappeared. Over the years what Cleon and wwfan have tried to do is get people to play within a broader system. This needs to be the direction people take in the future

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Firstly I like to see you manage a lower league team, Sheffield Fc would be ok, this should help people to understand what attributes are really important for certain roles and how things change after you raise the football league pyramid.A blog style would be a nice twist for your thread: a career update as a starting point to talk about tactics, players, training and team building.If such a thing won't appeal to this community, I'd be ready to involve you as a guest writer for my own blog. :D
Well I plan to work my system into Stafford Rangers low enough for you.?:-) they just got promoted to BS and I plan to take me ll the way

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