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dazbowski

No dark skin confirmed

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I've used the dark skin on the last couple of versions as the white one was just too bright to stare at for too long.

On past versions though such as FM2008, the light skin wasn't as bright, so hopefully the FM2013 skin will be bearable. Best to judge when the game is actually on my computer screen.

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As I said to the original poster of this thread on Twitter, you can try the demo out to see if the new skin (which is neither white, not dark) suits or not.

It wasn't, as Neil stated, that we didn't have time. It was that we don't think there's a need for it and that the default skin will be fine for everyone. If we find that that's not the case post release, then we'll look at doing one - but at least try it before you decide it's wrong!

Cheers for the reply. As I said before, cant say I'm not disappointed, but it does look better that the FM12 Skin and I will try it out during the demo. Glad to hear that you will still consider doing a darker version post release if warranted.

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I would prefer a dark skin to be available, but the lighter one from the previews looks usable - at least until skinners do their work. Not a great decision IMO, but if that is the worst change then I will be very happy.

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We should make a poll and find out who finds polls useful.

That's an excellent idea, I would open it but recently Akter is not in the best mood and he would close it within minutes.

Other than that, how can a forumer be constructive speaking about the missing of the dark skin ? Simply asking for it to come back as we did but the SI answers have honestly been quite outraging/comic.

Then, if polls are a fake tool, why don't you disable such a function in the forum ? It would be an elegant solution, instead of saying they are useless.

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If you can't work out how to be constructive, best not post at all, really. Plenty of people in this thread have managed to express their opinions on it fine, so it's not exactly difficult.

That's enough talk of polls and such, back on topic please.

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Not good news for me this. I always have my laptop on the lowest brightness setting and still struggle when using the forum and net as well as FM.

I won't make any big complaints till I've played the demo but looking at the video blogs I may have to hold out getting the game till someone makes a darker skin.

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No default dark skin in fm13? I'm sorry but this is a deal breaker for me, I'm cancelling my pre-order and never buying an SI Game again :rolleyes:

(for those who don't get it, I'm being sarcastic)

I'm one of those who doesn't really like the default light skin in FM Games, but it doesn't bother me there is no dark skin, if I feel the light skin is unplayable or cosmetically inept, I'm sure I'll find a dozen alternatives within a few days of the game releasing.

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Again not the issue, just because you don't mind or someone will make one doesn't cut it. Plenty of people don't even come on here or know that downloads are available.

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SI won't be charging for skins.

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Again not the issue, just because you don't mind or someone will make one doesn't cut it. Plenty of people don't even come on here or know that downloads are available.

It seems you have a problem to let things go, Miles has said that the FM13 skin is different to those of previous FM releases, he also said if, after release, or probably during Beta/Demo release, if people don't like the FM13 skin, SI will more than likely provide a dark skin for FM13 as soon as possible. I wouldn't be surprised that, just because of this thread, Miles is offering overtime to a SI Coder right now just to make a dark skin to make the whinging, over-dramatic people here stop moaning about it.

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He didn't say that all, he said they may look at that's all. Who has been over dramatic? I have said I can't play with the light skin as it gives me migraines. How is that over dramatic?

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The skin and layout has changed this version, the 'white' factor isn't a prevalent due to the way the GUI and backgrounds have been modified. Bear in mind a lot of work has gone into the FMC skin so there just wasn't time to do another skin on top of that.
As I said to the original poster of this thread on Twitter, you can try the demo out to see if the new skin (which is neither white, not dark) suits or not.

It wasn't, as Neil stated, that we didn't have time. It was that we don't think there's a need for it and that the default skin will be fine for everyone. If we find that that's not the case post release, then we'll look at doing one - but at least try it before you decide it's wrong!

So Neil Brock is lying?

Chances are there'll be a community-made dark skin within a few hours of the Beta being released anyway.

...and he is not very good at it!

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How long does it take playing with the light skin for it to give you a migrane?

Do you sit and stare at your monitor for hours on end when playing the game?

Do you realise that there are ways to change the brightness settings of any monitor or purchase hardware which makes staring at monitors easier on the eyes?

Did you know you can purchase glasses called Gunnars (although expensive) which help alleviate the pressures on the eyes when staring at screens for long periods of time?

Finally, did you also know, experts and optometrists, recommend that you take regular breaks when using computer equipment for long periods of time?

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Do you know how to read a thread properly? You clearly have no clue what you're talking about so it's not worth arguing with you.

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daz, i suffer from very very bad migraines, if you suffer from them because of starring at a computer, you should be listening to the advice, take regular breaks, turn the brightness of your monitor and anything else that can help avoid them, not blaming it on a skin.

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So Neil Brock is lying?

...and he is not very good at it!

I assumed that part of it was related to the fact that although in theory a skin doesn't take that long to create, to actually test every single panel of the game within it does take a while, so I thought that the time had been taken into account. Clearly as Miles has stated that was never the thinking and we were always going with just default FM skin. Miles knows more about the game than me! :D

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This thread is going nowhere. SI should have included a darker as choice is always a good thing but its too late now we should just leave it till the demo and see what everyone makes of it.

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milnerpoint, again missing my point. I never get migraines from using a dark skin but I do with the white one. Removing the option is stupid.

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milnerpoint, again missing my point. I never get migraines from using a dark skin but I do with the white one. Removing the option is stupid.

Enough of the arguing please- SI have made their position clear, so just wait for the game to be released and then see if the skin is an issue and if so, it will be addressed

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See post 118

You have made your point so now please just drop it and move on.

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SI won't be charging for skins.

You cant possibly know this. One year ago you would have also said that SI would never charge for DLCs.

Enough of the arguing please- SI have made their position clear, so just wait for the game to be released and then see if the skin is an issue and if so, it will be addressed

Why quote him? Milnerpoint was the one being argumentative but then again he is the teachers pet.

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In my case, it is not a problem of colorblindness (or great, it would have made me discover it) or migraines, but a matter of lisibility.

Reading most of web pages, which are "black on white" is ok. Mostly because it is static, and the information is not everywhere on the screen, but mostly in the middle, written word after word, left to right, top to bottom (because i am too ignorant to read other alphabets).

Now look at, for instance, the player profile, with its caracteristics. You should have already noticed that i am not a native speaker, even if the fact that it is a forum do not allow me to say "where do you think i got this horrible accent" (if you get the reference), but first, caracteristics are not in alphabetical order, and second, even after 1975 hours this year, i don't know all their positions by heart (as only some really matter to me). I think i am not alone to automatically change attributes colors to highlight good attributes, because the default one do not contrast enough. Even on dark background i managed to get a perfect set, and on a white one, it was terrible : bright colors don't match with white, dark colors don't differenciate each other. So for me, the white background needs more focus from the reader than the dark one.

Another screen is concerned (but i don't even know if it will still exist, as TV view seems to be the only one advertised): in match team stats screen. The same focus problem applies, and on top figures change, making it really difficult to read on a "white" background. I cannot cry and say it is a scandal not to have a dark background on this one, as there are no screenshots of it (and in match menus seem to be dark, so what about the main panels, we don't know), but dark would be better for this one.

And now comes the "weirdest" reason: my living room is a perfect alignment armchair-computer-sofa-TV, so i can watch real games (or movies) while playing FM (the game is addictive and all, but sitting in front of it in silence is not viable). So if FM screen is too bright, it catches the eye and my multithreading abilities do not work anymore. Do you really want me not to know about real football games anymore ? ;)

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http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/1/2/0/1/1/Don_Biggins__Staff.png/EG11/resize/1176x-1

If the whole skin is this kind of colour it's better (greyish) but still not ideal.

I was both surprised and, as dark skin user, disappointed to find this thread. I do think a dark skin option should be included in FM13 however, after seeing this screen shot I am actually looking forward to giving it a try. Note in the screen shot the drop down box appears to be the "old" white that was the whole screen in fm12 and then look at the "greyish" color that makes up the rest of the screen. Also the rest of the colors are muted and not bright and "sticking out". From this shot I would call this skin the "light skin" and not the "white skin".

As I said before I am a dark skin user and like most it is because of eye strain(though I at least don't get headaches). I do however find the dark skin to be dreary and not very pleasing to look at but only use it as the "best" alternative. This new light skin to me is much better looking than the fm12 dark skin. If it doesn't strain the eyes it is a nice upgrade IMHO. In the end I would guess that SI will end up putting out a dark skin as just too many complaints will come if they don't and it will end up being the best thing they can to at a small cost to "fix" the issue.

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You cant possibly know this. One year ago you would have also said that SI would never charge for DLCs.

Why quote him? Milnerpoint was the one being argumentative but then again he is the teachers pet.

Actually Milner has a fair point, if like me Daz gets migranes from sustained staring at light coloured schemes (such as this forum) he should be using something like F.Lux regardless

While I'm disappointed, SI have made their stance clear, and have said they will look at it in the near future, so going on about it isnt really useful.

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It wasnt ment as argumentative, i suffer debilitating migraines, i get them so bad i have medication to put me to sleep as i cannot just ride them out. I know from experience that although the light skin may cause a migraine slightly quicker, the best way to avoid them is to follow the rules the doctors give out, avoid spending 4 hours staring at a laptop screen, even if its a dark skin. Im not arguing it may help contribute to one, not at all, i know fine what can cause them.

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Not having a go here as I'm genuinely puzzled by it, but if that is going to be much too bright I don't understand how you can even use computers as most websites (especially those relating to Apple) have similar colours?

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As I said earlier Ackter when browsing a forum you don't sit and stare at it for hours on end,you come to the forum read the topics that interest you and then leave,also most forums are not as bright as SI's and I have never understood why it is so bright.

Take at look at Steams forums

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/

Basic but much easier on the eye.

Or MMORPG.com

http://www.mmorpg.com/

Again much easier on the eye,I could post more and more of the forums I visit that are easier on the eye than this 1.

Also like I said I can sit and stare at FM for a few hours looking for players and looking through other details without even getting to match day,with the bright white it does hurt my eyes and is really annoying that they have taken the easier on the eye dark skin away.

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I agree that the earlier light versions were tough to look at. But Miles has stated that this year it'll be better (neither light nor dark). And in all honesty you can't judge exactly how it'll look by watching a youtube video. Wait until FM13 is loaded up on your preferable machine before having a go on the skin :)

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Don't worry guys, current FM 2013 skin is totally different from white skin of FM 2012. It doesn't strikes eyes and is quite acceptable.

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As I said earlier Ackter when browsing a forum you don't sit and stare at it for hours on end,you come to the forum read the topics that interest you and then leave,also most forums are not as bright as SI's and I have never understood why it is so bright.

Take at look at Steams forums

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/

Basic but much easier on the eye.

Or MMORPG.com

http://www.mmorpg.com/

Again much easier on the eye,I could post more and more of the forums I visit that are easier on the eye than this 1.

Also like I said I can sit and stare at FM for a few hours looking for players and looking through other details without even getting to match day,with the bright white it does hurt my eyes and is really annoying that they have taken the easier on the eye dark skin away.

Hah, the Steam forums are one of the ones I can't go to because the contrast between the light text and dark background seriously messes with my eyes and leaves afterimages everywhere for me. This is the worst one I've found for it:

http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Bullymong

Even reading one article on there is enough to screw my eyes up.

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Hah, the Steam forums are one of the ones I can't go to because the contrast between the light text and dark background seriously messes with my eyes and leaves afterimages everywhere for me. This is the worst one I've found for it:

http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Bullymong

Even reading one article on there is enough to screw my eyes up.

So you agree it would be better if we had choices of skins for websites and games to suit the users needs and what he finds more relaxing for his eyes?

:p

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Yeah, I always agree that more is more, don't get me wrong. (You may notice that my stance in this thread was "well, the skinners will sort it out soon enough") ;)

Those sites don't give me headaches, they just leave me seeing negative images of them everytime I look away :saywhatnow:

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Indeed.

I have not used a user made skin for years but at the very least it is good fun looking at them and picking your personal favourite to use.

Just takes away from my in game time while searching. *A curse on thee Miles,I hope all your T-shirts shrink in the wash*.

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Hah, the Steam forums are one of the ones I can't go to because the contrast between the light text and dark background seriously messes with my eyes and leaves afterimages everywhere for me. This is the worst one I've found for it:

http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Bullymong

Even reading one article on there is enough to screw my eyes up.

Eeek that is horrible, suddenly the dark skin idea doesnt seem so great! Joking aside though I guess apart from wanting a dark skin I am surprised that SI didnt give a dark skin as standard just to keep the peace until the FM13 skin is proven to be universally the more popular (the dark skin seems extremely important in the FM12 club threads). It would have seemed good PR to me.

By the way I find the SI games website extremely hard to view for long periods, I trust the FM 13 skin will be more user friendly. I just find SI's attitude to several issues recently (eg the dark skin, fog of war deactivation on FMC) to be a bit arrogant and "Mummy knows best". Those previous 2 examples are my own hobby horse so I may have them out of perspective, and having heard some of the abuse directed at SI over several issues recently (including death threats apparantly), maybe SI have toughened up to critiscism but some of us like our hands held through times of change you know.

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"Dark" doesn't necessarily mean "black". FM07's skin was "dark" without being "black", by using dark green.

Light-on-black is good for some people at reading large amounts of text and can be useful for those who are colour-blind. If you work on a console like cmd or Linux without a GUI, you may find a black background nicer to work with as it's less glaring and you see it all the time, although that could easily be a throwback to how computers worked decades ago.

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You cant possibly know this. One year ago you would have also said that SI would never charge for DLCs.

FMC unlocks IS NOT DLC.. You can unlock it for free by playing the game.. seriously *facepalm*

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FMC unlocks IS NOT DLC.. You can unlock it for free by playing the game.. seriously *facepalm*

Not everything can be unlocked by playing the game,there are a couple that have to be bought.

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I preferred the dark skin as well but people need to calm down a bit about this issue. So what if the game doesn't initially come with a dark skin. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before some of the clever guys in the skinning forum make one. In fact I'd be surprised if there is not a dark skin even before there is a patch for fm13.

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Will be interesting to see how this looks when the beta is released. Whilst I don't suffer from migraines or anything like that, my personal opinion is that the default light skin in recent releases is way too bright and I always get a modded version ASAP.

I also feel that there has always been enough feedback knocking about in these forums for years to make this brightness issue apparent to SI. If SI were to just look at the resource they have in the Skinning forum and headhunt a couple of the more popular skinners there to launch alternative skins on release date, it would be a "new feature" which would probably gain approval from a lot of people. Sometimes the easiest fixes can yield the greatest results.

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Don't worry guys, current FM 2013 skin is totally different from white skin of FM 2012. It doesn't strikes eyes and is quite acceptable.

This is true, but we have to wait and see.

One thing is seeing a video with 2 minuts duration... another thing is playing a game for 3 or 4 hours.

Dark skins, imo, are always better to your eyes... but as i said before, perhaps this is a well balanced skin. Wait for the demo.

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No dark skin?! OMG!! This means I have preordered something I won't be able to play... :s

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The colour blind issue i can understand but people complaining about brightness need to get a grip.

As Ackter said how can a white/grey skin be too bright for you on FM when a heck of a lot of websites have white as their main colour? And why can't you just adjust the brightness of your monitor, or even download a program that is specifically made to lower screen brightness to a specific level?

There are plenty of solutions, but it seems people would rather moan about a trivial issue rather than fix it.

EDIT: Oh, and i massively prefer the dark skin over the brighter ones, it seems like a really lazy decision to cut it from the game. I don't understand why changing a colour here and there is such a big deal. But it's not a huge deal for me, like Ackter said someone will have one made in a matter of hours from the forum.

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FMC unlocks IS NOT DLC.. You can unlock it for free by playing the game.. seriously *facepalm*

"Seriously" some of the DLC content is not game unlockable *facepalm with a wet fish*

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Will be interesting to see how this looks when the beta is released. Whilst I don't suffer from migraines or anything like that, my personal opinion is that the default light skin in recent releases is way too bright and I always get a modded version ASAP.

I also feel that there has always been enough feedback knocking about in these forums for years to make this brightness issue apparent to SI. If SI were to just look at the resource they have in the Skinning forum and headhunt a couple of the more popular skinners there to launch alternative skins on release date, it would be a "new feature" which would probably gain approval from a lot of people. Sometimes the easiest fixes can yield the greatest results.

Good idea, a selection of out of the box skins would be a great addition.

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