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No dark skin confirmed

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asdpoo, that is my other concern. The white and the tiny default font was appalling.

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Chances are there'll be a community-made dark skin within a few hours of the Beta being released anyway.

Ackter, sorry to say it but that's a shame. I really hope you are right but it can be be really hard for a modder to do that. To be honest this is another own goal made by SI above all considering that some customers are color blind and the other ones will be forced to use the sun glasses.

I would patch it the first day if I was in SI and I think all the forumers agree on that.

Please fix it before the release.

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Last time they announced no dark skin there was one included in the release day patch because of the uproar on these forums, hopefully the fact that so many people are so obviously upset again about the lack of a dark skin will result in the same thing happening for FM13.

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I for one always use the dark skin. Would be interesting to know what most people use....

Hopefully the modding community can get one sorted by the 2nd November.

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This really could be a deal breaker for me. I use my TV, and so i'm sat a fair way away from it, and with the lighter skin, it's just impossible to read text. Worrying...

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Yes, perhaps after the game go gold, they find the time to make the darker skin.

What puzzles me is why SI insist in making the brighter version of the skin the default one, when it's obvious that the darker one is much more popular. Any guy who walk trough this forums, and see pics of FM, 90% of the time the skin (made by SI or made by user) is always dark. So why dont SI decide..."ok, from now on the default skin should be in darker colors".

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A double :thdn: for this.

"We don't have time to do a dark skin but don't worry, someone who doesn't work for SI will knock one out in a couple of hours."

Not cool.

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Well what a slip up by SI...

simply stating that they have no time and it's ok... someone else will do it, is a cardinal sin in customer relations tbh..

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"there's no dark skin currently. Or a white skin. There's the FM13 skin." - Miles Jacobson.

Well that's helpful information! Cheers Miles(!) Sorry, but he can come across like a self-important, miserable so and so at times.

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I haven't seen what the FM13 skin is like yet to comment, but this sounds like a horrendous decision by SI. I absolutely detest the white skin.

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Miles just tweeted there will be no dark skin. What a shocking decision this is, I personally can't use the white skin as it gives me migraines. I'm sure many other people will be equality disappointed with this news. Guess I'm gonna have to wait for a new skin. Poor decision si!

I agree, no dark skin = headaches for me too. Bad decision, but I trust SI to react to negative feedback.

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I would suggest, that if sitting infront of a computer screen for hours on end gives you migraines, you should have a re-think. I cant drink certain fizzy drinks because it gives me headaches, i dont moan about it, i just avoid them.

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As I said to the original poster of this thread on Twitter, you can try the demo out to see if the new skin (which is neither white, not dark) suits or not.

It wasn't, as Neil stated, that we didn't have time. It was that we don't think there's a need for it and that the default skin will be fine for everyone. If we find that that's not the case post release, then we'll look at doing one - but at least try it before you decide it's wrong!

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As I said to the original poster of this thread on Twitter, you can try the demo out to see if the new skin (which is neither white, not dark) suits or not.

It wasn't, as Neil stated, that we didn't have time. It was that we don't think there's a need for it and that the default skin will be fine for everyone. If we find that that's not the case post release, then we'll look at doing one - but at least try it before you decide it's wrong!

Miles, we all have seen many 1080p full screen videos to be already able to express a opinion, as this thread shows.

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Grep - The FM13 skin is mentioned in posts #9, #19, #46 (all saying it looks different and will try it) & #60 (who says they haven't seen the new skin yet). Every other post talks about a dark skin or a white skin from FM12.

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Whilst I share others disappointment that there will be no default dark skin, there are many great skinners out there in the FM Community, so there will be great alternatives in the coming weeks/months. I prefer dark skins as they are easier on the eyes for playing longer FM sessions.

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Miles. I think the Beta should be released this weekend so people can see for themselves! :p

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"there's no dark skin currently. Or a white skin. There's the FM13 skin." - Miles Jacobson.

Well that's helpful information! Cheers Miles(!) Sorry, but he can come across like a self-important, miserable so and so at times.

If you're going to quote something I wrote on Twitter in response to a question, at least show the question as well so that it's in context, QWERTYOP

You asked "Is it true there is no dark skin this year? I found it impossible to play with the white skin. Couldn't read the text. #Headache"

I replied "there's no dark skin currently. Or a white skin. There's the FM13 skin"

What part of that is in any way unreasonable as an answer to your question? You asked the question based on FM12's skins, neither of which are present!

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It was that we don't think there's a need for it and that the default skin will be fine for everyone. If we find that that's not the case post release, then we'll look at doing one - but at least try it before you decide it's wrong!

That's a fair point.

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Miles, there clearly is a white skin as the skin in FM 13 (unless it changes from the video blogs) is white.

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It is a fair point but for people getting the game on release and they do stuggle with the skin it's not much use.

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Miles, please say you did something about the last year's font, the text was horrendous to read on 1080p.

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Grep - The FM13 skin is mentioned in posts #9, #19, #46 (all saying it looks different and will try it) & #60 (who says they haven't seen the new skin yet). Every other post talks about a dark skin or a white skin from FM12.

But you must agreed, that from the videos so far, the FM13 skin resembles much more like a white skin and not a dark skin, manly because the background is white (or close to that).

You could be right, and perhaps the new skin could be very well balanced and to the likes of everyone, and of course we all give it a try... after all theres no other.

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Miles, there clearly is a white skin as the skin in FM 13 (unless it changes from the video blogs) is white.

There are places that white are used but the primary colour for backgrounds throughout is grey.

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I guess only time will tell on this one, can't say i'm happy but will happily admit if i'm wrong on release.

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You don't adjust the brightness for every game, though. It should be comfortable on the eyes for the default settings.

The default brightness for everyone's monitors results in a skin that is too bright for some in Football Manager. Is that not a concern?

We're talking headaches and issues for colour-blind people here - these are not "looking for things to complain about". Things these are rare (look at the incidence of colour-blindness) but definitely exist. The text and background gave people headaches for FM12, which is why they are annoyed this year. It's not so much seeking complaints as annoyance at being ignored.

It's good that you don't experience these problems, but other people do.

My point is that if brightness is a big issue for you, then you have to do something about it.. lowering the monitors' brightness is a good advice.

And funny how suddenly there are so many people with this 'rare' condition.. I thought it was rare?

Finally, did I say that no one has this issue?.. I understand that some do and of course that sucks for them that the dark skin isnt present in FM2013, but who says FM2013 will have the same problems as FM2012? Why sell the skin before the bear is shot?

IMO its because its so much more fun to whine over every single little things possible before thinking things through. At least try the demo before you starting ranting.. but, no.. people have to act like spoilt little brats that didnt get an iPhone for their birthday..

My point is.. relax.. drink some coffee.. count to 10.. and try it out BEFORE using your arsenal of illnesses and symptoms as argument as to why this is a bad decision.. (on a side note I agree its a bad decision as the dark skin is a lot easier on the eyes and also makes the game look ALOT better than the white version did) - I hope the FM2013 gives the same feeling.. if not I'm sure someone will create a darker skin eventually..

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@Herter:

Really unreasonable post. The whole theard is being written in a very polite way. People are not whinning... they just express there disappointment for the lack of a dark skin.

In fact, the only agressive post... is yours.

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My point is that if brightness is a big issue for you, then you have to do something about it.. lowering the monitors' brightness is a good advice.
Imagine changing the volume for every single song on your PC while listening to music. Or constantly adjusting the brightness of your screen when changing webpages. Do you really need to do that nowadays?

If you are fine lowering the brightness of your screen for FM, then presumably increasing it again when going back to normal because everything is too dark, that's fine. However, you would think that you shouldn't need to nowadays, because there are design guidelines out there.

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I thought the videos were meant to give to the customers a preview of FM 13. I now discover that they should not be considered like that or that we have all bad monitors brightness settings or we all have eyes problems.

Ok, nice to know.

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If you're going to quote something I wrote on Twitter in response to a question, at least show the question as well so that it's in context, QWERTYOP

You asked "Is it true there is no dark skin this year? I found it impossible to play with the white skin. Couldn't read the text. #Headache"

I replied "there's no dark skin currently. Or a white skin. There's the FM13 skin"

What part of that is in any way unreasonable as an answer to your question? You asked the question based on FM12's skins, neither of which are present!

It was hardly a helpful or informative reply! You may as well have said "the new skin is jgregtrehji coloured".

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Is quite funny reading the poll thread that was closed http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/318374-Are-you-pro-or-versus-the-killing-of-the-dark-skin

People saying the poll was useless as who would be pro to losing the dark skin,well it seem SI were pro to losing it ;)

Miles you were saying we have not seen the skin yet and we should try it first,can you tell me if this is the skin?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/318190-Football-Manager-2013-Video-Blogs-GUI-and-Usability-1

Now from 35 seconds onward you see the skin and it is way to bright,in fact it does not look that much off from 2012's white skin,big mistake taking away an option from the player base.

I guess I will wait to play until 1 of the players make a dark skin for me to use,the FM player base is quite trustworthy to make 1 ;)

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It looks very similar to this forum's colours to me :saywhatnow:

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Personally I always use the dark skin until a decent community-made one turns up (I have Steklo's on FM12), but will reserve judgment here until playing the demo as there have been GUI changes I believe.

Loving the over-reactions btw.

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It looks very similar to this forum's colours to me :saywhatnow:

Yeah I don't spend around 4 hours a day staring at this forum though :p

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I was always using the dark skin myself. But I'm sure I can put up with whatever skin is in the game, and if it's really all that bad there'll be a mod sooner rather than later.

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Miles. I think the Beta should be released this weekend so people can see for themselves! :p

I concur, release the beta this weekend and I'll give you my opinion.

Always use white skin anyway lol.

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Yeah I don't spend around 4 hours a day staring at this forum though :p

But what else would you do at work?

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But what else would you do at work?

These days I am a stay at home Dad so I only get around an hour during the day to do the forum thing :)

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I have to say that this decision and the way it was "announced" really do suggest that SI's PR & the decisions comittee's thoughts are out of touch and leave a lot to be desired. I hope they are right and the white (sorry "grey") skin are fine (though I doubt this from the videos released!), especially for the colourblind or migraine sufferers, only time will tell - but this whole issue should have been approached differently I feel.

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These days I am a stay at home Dad so I only get around an hour during the day to do the forum thing :)

I was going to link a picture of a baby cage as a suggested way of solving this issue, but as this was one of the pictures that came up I thought I'd share it instead:

http://campaignofshockandawe.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/baby-cage.jpeg?w=640

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Is quite funny reading the poll thread that was closed http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/318374-Are-you-pro-or-versus-the-killing-of-the-dark-skin

People saying the poll was useless as who would be pro to losing the dark skin,well it seem SI were pro to losing it ;)

Miles you were saying we have not seen the skin yet and we should try it first,can you tell me if this is the skin?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/318190-Football-Manager-2013-Video-Blogs-GUI-and-Usability-1

Now from 35 seconds onward you see the skin and it is way to bright,in fact it does not look that much off from 2012's white skin,big mistake taking away an option from the player base.

I guess I will wait to play until 1 of the players make a dark skin for me to use,the FM player base is quite trustworthy to make 1 ;)

I think it has been closed because the percentage would have reached 99% in a blink of an eye, the remaining 1% would have been represented by SI members.

That's the immense power of Polls. Facts, not opinions.

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It was closed because it was completely superfluous when this thread is here.

Polls don't prove anything other than that polls are mainly used by people who are unhappy with something. The statistics or "facts" that they produce are almost meaningless in most cases.

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There are other ways to help until SI either relent and give those of us with sensitive eyes a dark skin or some one makes a darker skin.

I use a program called F.lux that mutes the brightness and can be set so the brightness is muted more at night then during the day. I started using it a year or two agao, partly because there wasn't a dark skin in FM at the time (SI soon released one IIRC) and they made changes to the forum so it was even brighter then the FM skin.

i use F.lux for my work computer. thats when dealing with normal Microsoft Products though. i always felt it didn't look as nice when using it with FM.

as long as the new skin isn't as difficult to read as the current light-skin, and the fonts are bigger, it will mean the dark-skin isn't needed because everything will be clearer.

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It was closed because it was completely superfluous when this thread is here.

Polls don't prove anything other than that polls are mainly used by people who are unhappy with something. The statistics or "facts" that they produce are almost meaningless in most cases.

I disagree at all.

Polls are the only way to show exactly what forumers think without any further doubt. Not all the polls, as you imply, are intended to highlight negative aspects.

Polls are exactly like when you are expected to vote for a politic faction, the opposite one always get angry about a bad poll result or, even worst, they try to throw mud on the poll itself arguing they are fake or a nonsense. Saying that implicitly the arguer says all the votant people are dumb.

I therefore disagree both with your statement and the background FM13 light-grey/white skin.

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I disagree at all.

Polls are the only way to show exactly what forumers think without any further doubt. Not all the polls, as you imply, are intended to highlight negative aspects.

Polls are exactly like when you are expected to vote for a politic faction, the opposite one always get angry about a bad poll result or, even worst, they try to throw mud on the poll itself arguing they are fake or a nonsense. Saying that implicitly the arguer says all the votant people are dumb.

I therefore disagree both with your statement and the background FM13 light-grey/white skin.

Polls are certainly not the only way, and its definitely not the best way at all, nor are they ever completely representative. There is a perfectly good thread discussion here, that poll is entirely not needed.

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I disagree at all.

Polls are the only way to show exactly what forumers think without any further doubt. Not all the polls, as you imply, are intended to highlight negative aspects.

Polls are exactly like when you are expected to vote for a politic faction, the opposite one always get angry about a bad poll result or, even worst, they try to throw mud on the poll itself arguing they are fake or a nonsense. Saying that implicitly the arguer says all the votant people are dumb.

I therefore disagree both with your statement and the background FM13 light-grey/white skin.

Of course you disagree.

Polls show nothing other than the opinions of the people who are moved enough to vote, and a thread where they actually type their opinions is far more valuable feedback. Poll results aren't even slightly a fair reflection of the overall feeling of the userbase, they're reflections of the people who are unhappy enough to be compelled to vote in them.

As stated, we'd much rather have a thread where people post about why they dislike something (in a constructive manner), rather than posting a separate and redundant poll thread.

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They had put the dark skin in with FM12 because of so many people wanting a dark skin but yet for FM13 it's only available in a white skin again :saywhatnow: Quite a strange decision to leave the dark one out. I don't mind the light skin myself but for me the dark skin looks better than the white one.

Will just need to wait until someone makes the dark one again I suppose :D

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