Grinding out results by rigid defending and counter attacking

[lurkingwithintent]

In FM I’ve always tried to play nice football, but on a recent save when I took over a poor Lazio side in 2024, it was clear that wouldn’t work. I managed to save them from relegation after joining mid way through the year and then made an attempt to play nice, fluid football. However, with a poor start, I decided to try and grind out results, something I’ve always wanted to do. The team has decent players capable of more than surviving in this division. I’ve got some strong centre backs, good defensive midfielders and raw pace on the wings to help me counter.

The formation is a 4-2-1-2-1, although I’d really name it a variant on the 4-3-3, even if it is a very defensive one:

I was playing Catania, who lined up in a narrow 4-3-1-2 formation. I’m at home and they are just favourites, but it’s pretty even. I also go narrow, and set closing down to “Stand Off”, the idea being that I can hold my position and limit them to shots from range. Going narrow should mean they will find it difficult to break me down. Both the DMs are set to zonal marking and lower closing down so they sit just in front of the back four. To try and get my wingers more involved defensively, they are set to man mark the opponent’s fullbacks. In Catania’s 4-3-1-2 the fullbacks are going to be vital in providing width, so hopefully if I can somewhat nullify them I should stop any wide threat they offer. With my pace up front, especially out wide, hopefully I can effectively counter attack and hit them on the break. I also use the shout “Clear ball to the flanks” to send clearances in the direction of the wingers, who should be able to effectively counter with their pace.

What I found was due to our positioning, Catania would often find themselves with the ball at the back and very few passing options. In the below picture, Catania’s N38 had the ball, and as you can see had most passing avenues shut down.

He opted to punt it long, which my DM Clem N28 easily clears. From there my left winger N30 picks it up, and suddenly we can counter. The move ended with my N6 being put through on goal, only for the keeper to save.

In the below screenshot, again we are limiting the options for passing.

Kryvtsov is on the ball and although he’s under little pressure, his passing options are severely limited. In the end he passes it backwards and they end up hitting the ball long, which we easily deal with. This was a recurring theme of the match.

We then make it 1-0 with a very straight forward goal, the pace of the wingers doing all the work as N6 turns his man and whips a low ball in for N30 to tap home, with about 20 minutes to go. Screenshot

We then get a nice bit of luck when Catania’s left back gets sent off for two bookable offences meaning they are now going to find it even more difficult to get the ball wide and really make gaps in our back line.

The win is secured with five minutes to go via another goal down the right. This time Disdarevic N18 plays in the fullback Cisse N21, who then floats a ball in for my MC N8 to rise highest and head into the corner. We add another in injury time and ride out 3-0 winners, again down the right, this time my AMR comes inside and is played through to tap it home.

Here’s the stats from the game:

You can see although they had many more shots, 7 of theirs were from long range, and just 2/12 on target, compared to 6/8 for us. We created fewer shots but more chances. FM shows Catania having 2 CCCs, although I have to admit I’m a little dubious about how those have been defined. I’d like my pass percentages to go up, particularly from the back, so I think I’ll experiment with asking my goalkeeper to play it short more often, although I don’t want him to just lay it off to defenders to punt it up.

Of course, this approach is never going to work all the time. You need the odd bit of luck, and now and then you might be on the wrong end of a 0-1, but I’m confident and intrigued to see how my team develops playing this way over the course of a season.

This was far from a perfect performance, but for the first game playing this way with a team very low on morale, I was really happy with the result. I’ll keep updating this as I go further, and hopefully this might kick start a bit of a discussion. I’d love to hear from anyone else on if they play this way or how they would do things differently.

[furiousuk]

Really good example of some cautious, defensive football. Most teams need to play like this at some stage and it looks like you've put some real thought into cutting off passing lanes, frustrating the opposition and then how to hit them on the counter. Not surprised you're doing well!

I don't think that your passing averages will necessarily go up much with this style because you'll often be clearing under some pressure, hopefully to a wide player to counter but it'll be hard to make those passes accurate all the time. I assume you'll be deep a lot of the time so long balls over the top will be a real option for you but, again, you wouldn't expect those to come off all the time so that will lower your percentage.

[lurkingwithintent]

Thanks furious

After this game I managed to get a 3-1 win away at Reggina and was then very unlucky to draw 0-0 with Bari, we had multiple chances and hit the woodwork 3 times. On another day we'd have easily won. We then went on a horrendous run but have just ground out a 1-0 win to hopefully get back on track.

The issue I've decided is my fullbacks, who are simply no where near as good as the rest of my team. I'm looking into going to 3 at the back but still playing this style..would be interested to hear people's thoughts. I worry the 3 would get dragged horrendously out of position, so I'm not sure what to do.

[furiousuk]

Not sure 3 at the back is really suited to heavy heavy defending but if you used WB's rather than MR/ML then it's really 5 at the back which gives you various options to provide defensive solidity and plenty of ways of using a DM or 2 - and would probably allow less quality in your FB/WBs.

FB's are sorely underestimated but this at least means they are cheaper! Given the choice between a stirling AMC or excellent FB's many guys would go for the outstanding talent but if you're fighting for survival or fighting to push up the table then the FB's will almost certainly serve you better (aging creative superstars are not a way to stop the rot at a club - real life take note).

There was a thread a while back praising FB's, I meant to make a note of it because it's a rare topic (it was excellently written too) but seem to have lost it, I'll have a look and try to find it.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/311754-Full-Backs-and-Wing-Backs-the-most-important-men-on-the-pitch?highlight=full Here we go!

[lurkingwithintent]

I agree, I don't think 3 at the back works for this type of thing which is a bit frustrating...made awkward by the fact that my first choice LB is now out for 3 months! I'm thinking perhaps about playing a DM at WBL and seeing how that plays out. I do have a DC who I think could do a job in that position.

Thanks for the link to that thread, will certainly give it a read

[furiousuk]

I've used a DM in at DL who did a fine job - had good defensive attributes, a bit of pace and better with the ball than my genuine DL options, did very well.

[lurkingwithintent]

Yeah I think that's the best solution...we're very much in a relegation dog-fight so hopefully the guy I have in mind can do the job. I've been a little exposed down the flanks, have been thinking of pulling AML/AMR back but I think that makes us too defensive. I love FM when there's so many tactical challenges and you're scrapping for points at the bottom

[Shakes]

FB's are sorely underestimated but this at least means they are cheaper!

I don't find that to be the case at all, at least once the game world becomes about regens. Good fullbacks are the most expensive players in the game relative to ability because there are so few quality full backs compared to other positions. Full back is such a demanding position, you need to be an athletic beast plus be able to defend plus be able to offer something going forward too. Add to that the low number of high PA full backs generated (multiple people on the youth challenge threads have noticed this, so I don't think it's my imagination) and they really aren't cheap at all.

Given the choice between a stirling AMC or excellent FB's many guys would go for the outstanding talent but if you're fighting for survival or fighting to push up the table then the FB's will almost certainly serve you better (aging creative superstars are not a way to stop the rot at a club - real life take note).

I'd go for the full backs because AMCs are a dime a dozen. If you can find a quality full back sign them before someone else does!

[lurkingwithintent]

. Add to that the low number of high PA full backs generated (multiple people on the youth challenge threads have noticed this, so I don't think it's my imagination) and they really aren't cheap at all.

I've also found this - I'm in 2024 on my save and really there's about 2-3 "world class" fullbacks in the world.

[Andy107]

I have to thank you for this approach, as my Portsmouth team just managed to scrap through a 1-1 at Old Trafford in the League Cup semi-final after leading 3-2 in the first leg. My Croatian regen scored a peach of a free-kick before Bryan Ruiz scored around 50 minutes. We went down to 10 men as well so I had my big Dutch target man playing on the right to try and contain Martin Olsson for the last 15! I find wingers on a counter attacking approach can tend to cut inside given the opportunity and I didn't want Olsson or Lichtsteiner having space to run into if Inside Forwards were regularly caught in position after cutting inside. We were dominated though:

Final against Championship Charlton who beat Southampton in the semis too.

[lurkingwithintent]

Wow, you were pretty dominated! However you did only limit Utd to 2 CCCs...when playing in such a way (I think you went a bit more defensive than I typically would!) you need to ride your luck at times and over 90 minutes you're always going to let the other team have a couple of chances, but great that the result went your way!

In terms of how I'm getting on with this approach, I've just moved clubs to Lille in 2026, who have just been promoted to Ligue 1 following a spell in Ligue 2, they are just above the drop zone in March and I should be able to keep them up. Still trying to play a rigid, tight system but allow a bit more freedom as I have some good players going forward, more so than when I initially created this thread and was with Lazio.

I set up in a flat 4-4-1-1 formation for my first game, with the 2MCs playing with zonal marking (I find that key to any system that aims to be defensive) and being more defensive than the rest of my team. It didn't go quite to plan at first as we went 0-2 down, but a goal from my AM got us back into it and my ST hit two in the second half to give us a 3-2 victory. Will post up in more detail about that tomorrow!

[furiousuk]

I don't think you're imagining it, there's only a couple of high quality FB's left in 2020 for me and no absolutely stellar regen FB's (although a few come close).

I agree they should be expensive I've just found the AI doesn't really value them (possibly due to lowish PA??) so I can pick them up reasonably.

[lurkingwithintent]

I don't think you're imagining it, there's only a couple of high quality FB's left in 2020 for me and no absolutely stellar regen FB's (although a few come close).

I agree they should be expensive I've just found the AI doesn't really value them (possibly due to lowish PA??) so I can pick them up reasonably.

I haven't found them to be that cheap on mine at all, perhaps I didn't find them early enough. The best RB in the world is one I bought for just under £4m when he was 17 though, very pleased with that

Have been working on using a 4-4-1-1 formation but still applying the approach I outlined in Chapter 1...not having the inverted triangle of the MC and 2 DMs is a bit different but that triangle is still there as AMC-MC, MC so I'm working on trying to get it rigid enough without the ball but still able to hurt teams on the counter. Unfortunately real life stuff is keeping me busy for most of today but hopefully I'll get some time this evening.

[furiousuk]

Yeah £4m for a 17 y/o is fairly expensive, but not too bad, especially in the 2020's.

My LB, who is one of the best LB's, was a real bargain buy, well under 1m when he was 16/17, think it was 875k but may have been 275k! I always have a kind-of subplot going on to see if I can get a real real cheap youngster up to big money. I got a youngster for 1.4m and sold him for 18m because he wasn't great which isn't bad but I want a real low figure, sub 500k if poss, and see if I can up them. I've done 60k to 6m which isn't too shabby!

I love the 4411, been tinkering with a Tottenham save using that formation and I love it in FM. My long save on FM09 finished playing a solid 4411 with an epic AM/2nd STR dominating.