How can football manager in 2013 still not have goalkeeper red cards for fouls

[sperlz]

It claims to be a real football simulator but even basic football events such as goalkeepers committing fouls aren't going to be in the game, in fact goalkeepers at no time collide with outfield players in the current match engine. I asked the editor of the match engine and he said that nothing will be changed for the final release.

So they will improve silly little graphics but not major events which are a big part of football. Furthermore they dont seem to feel there is too much of a problem with handballs and handball claims around the area?? so another major event in football missing from the game. Why aren't these kind of things considered to be a priority?

Baffling

[spankie]

It does, its just that it is so very rare.

PaulC says that he will look into it when he has got time.

[sperlz]

Rubbish mate, absolute rubbish.

I simmed 5 full seasons on full match detail and they are NOT on the game.

He said he will look into it after the release of the game and because its an addition to the game it wont be implemented in a patch so unless if he looks into it before release then it wont be in FM13. I personally wont be able to play the game without this feature because i feel its a massive part of football and with it not being in the game it takes away that realistic feeling of a real football match.

[gogogo golem]

It's rare in real life; and I can vividly remember a couple of incidents where I've seen a goalie sent off or booked for handling outside the box and possibly contact in FM12. It is just VERY RARE in game, like it is in real life.

[nababaliw]

Ive seen GKs get straight reds for handling outside the area in FM

[dazbowski]

Rubbish mate, absolute rubbish.

I simmed 5 full seasons on full match detail and they are NOT on the game.

He said he will look into it after the release of the game and because its an addition to the game it wont be implemented in a patch so unless if he looks into it before release then it wont be in FM13. I personally wont be able to play the game without this feature because i feel its a massive part of football and with it not being in the game it takes away that realistic feeling of a real football match.

You won't play the game because keepers don't get red cards for hand ball? Massive part of football? Yeah ok.

[sperlz]

hang on lets just reinforce the point here

Keepers can get sent off on the game for one thing only. thats handling the ball outside the box and when it happens on the game its glitchy because the keeper has noone near him and just walks out of the box with it.

My point is that keepers dont make fouls on the game. They dont touch other players therefore dont give away penalties and dont get sent off as the last man. How anyone can not think that its bad that the game doesn't have this feature is beyond me.

[reddevil12587]

I would have thought this would have been obvious as to why keeper fouls are not in the game, ok coding into the match engine shouldn't be a hard task for the ME guys at SI but it's getting it right to reflect, what you say, real football. At the end of the day its a simulation, I'm sure it's been tested many times by SI who just don't think it's worth putting in the game because it's hard to give something like that a fair balance. For example, if they code it in, then there will either be an extreme rarity where people will complain about it being a glitch or it will happen with such occurrence that people will complain it happens too often. It's too hard to balance it with a probability factor to make it simulate "Real Football".

[RBKalle]

Strawman argument here...

Just like we get defenders sent off for professional fouls, we'd get the same for keepers... it's not such a rare occurrence in real life and IMO it's a huge letdown it's been overlooked, for whatever reason, in FM for so many years.

Is it difficult to get it right? Maybe so, but yet again we get the silly "random two footed challenge" red card for strikers... It's annoying, it's inconsistent and probably completely random but still it's in the game.

The lack of such a feature makes having a backup goalie on the bench almost useless... No wonder many players bring an additional outfield player on the bench instead of a backup goalie.

[trekman]

Ive seen GKs get straight reds for handling outside the area in FM

I've seen Reina red cards for both handling outside the area and taking out an opponent. I agree though that it is rare but it

definitely is in the game.

[sperlz]

I've seen Reina red cards for both handling outside the area and taking out an opponent. I agree though that it is rare but it

definitely is in the game.

Thats interesting considering that its not actually written in the match engine, maybe you imagined it

[Lurk Lurkington]

While we're at it, let's complain about the lack of streakers in the 3d match view, massive part of the game and all that. (Sarcasm)

[tresfainent]

Keepers can get red carded but extremely rarely. In FM 2011 I made it to year 2070 and never had a keeper sent off. In FM 2012 I'm up to year 2050 and had my keeper sent off one time for handling outside the box.

It is so rare though that I don't play games with a reserve keeper because it is a waste of a sub spot. I was actually able to win the one game where my keeper got red carded despite playing Marseille the second best team in the league.

[wazza]

Thats interesting considering that its not actually written in the match engine, maybe you imagined it

Ive had a keeper where its happened to as well think it was in fm11 but it could have been fm12

[borobadger]

ive only ever seen keepers get red cards for sliding to catch the ball and then just slide out of the box with the ball in their hands... so it can happen but it is very rare

[RBKalle]

Those are two different things FFS!

Keepers can get sent off for handling the ball outside the box (happened twice in one game to my opponents, and both were due to the bug of keeper holding the ball inside the box then "gliding" outside... probably a ME glitch, but still...)

Keepers DON'T get sent off for taking out opponents in one-on-one situations, at least not as often as it happens IRL.

In last season's Serie A it happened EIGHT times, and already twice this season (in only 6 matchdays)

How can anyone say it's not a problem and it's comparable to the lack of streakers is beyond me

[taylorsmen]

I'm certain i've had a GK sent off for handling outside the area, but like others say it's rare in Football.

What's worse is SI insist on fancy stadiums, dug outs, players warming up, even houses and beaches in the background etc etc, but leave out the flipping tunnel, criminal.

I want a tunnel.

[Prongsie92]

I had a GK get a red card a few minutes after being subbed on for my injured GK. I wasn't amused. And I want a tunnel too.

Plus cameramen for the players to "accidently" tackle/collide into along with the option for 'Mean Machine'-esque free-kicks into groins.

[Wiitastic]

Rubbish mate, absolute rubbish.

I simmed 5 full seasons on full match detail and they are NOT on the game.

He said he will look into it after the release of the game and because its an addition to the game it wont be implemented in a patch so unless if he looks into it before release then it wont be in FM13. I personally wont be able to play the game without this feature because i feel its a massive part of football and with it not being in the game it takes away that realistic feeling of a real football match.

Wait! you simmed 5 full seasons ? did you look at every game for the yellow/red cards & also all the fouls ? I doubt it. Sure you looked at a few games a season with no red cards.

Honestly, how often is a gk sent off in real life ? once in blue moon.

[lucho__]

One day, I'll write down a list of all the forum users that claim that they won't buy the new version of FM. Then, a few weeks after the new version is released, I'll check the forums with my list in hand, and see 90% of those people commenting on the new version that they obviously bought despite all their threats. One day, I'll do this. For now, I'll just stay here in a state of shock and depression for not being able to see goalkeepers sent off for fouls in FM.

[charlo116]

Back in fm 09 as Liverpool i had Reina sent off twice in two seasons for fouling a player inside the box as last man.

[laBOMBA]

I have never seen a red card for a goalie in either FM11 or FM12 (can't remember before that) and I have clocked over 2000 hours for these 2 games combined. Maybe I've been (un)lucky.

The handling outside the box is indeed very rare and I understand you hardly see that in nowadays football but I wouldn't mind seeing a few more one on one situations where the attacker dribbles past the goalie and the goalie decides to take the attacker down to prevent him from scoring. This still happens these days but I've never seen that happen in FM.

[robertcornell68]

I've never seen a GK sent off for a foul. The handball thing is meant to compensate but probably doesn't happen often enough.

Can't say it bothers me much.

[Wanson]

I have to agree with the OP. FM claims to be the most realistic simulation of football yet is missing such an important part of the game.

I have to say though that I have never noticed this until now. And that is mainly because I don't watch games very often as I find the match engine too frustrating to watch. When I watch the game I have absolutely no control over what goes on on the pitch and any tactical adjustments I make don't do anything. The only thing I do - that I have found to make a difference - is to use the quick instruction to tell my team to retain possession. They should do this without me telling them to though, right? Anyway, I usually just holiday past match days after setting my team and tactics.

But I have wandered off topic. Yes, goalkeeper fouls should of course be part of the game. Anyone who thinks they shouldn't be in is just wrong. Anyone who thinks it would be too hard to implement is just defeatist. It may be difficult to implement but itcan be implemented and I'm sure that it will be eventually. I guess we'll just have to wait til fm14 or maybe fm15.

[Kenco]

It's true, the only thing a GK can be sent off for is the handball outside the box. Keepers don't even commit fouls. I played over 30 seasons on FM11 and about 6 seasons on FM12, none of my GKs ever so much as conceded a foul, let alone picked up a yellow or red card (and yes, I was keeping a record of their statistics because I'm a statto).

The argument that it's rare IRL is rubbish because it happens often enough (Liverpool managed to concede 2 pens in one game against Blackburn last season, both fouls, Doni got sent off and Jones got booked. Doni was only playing because Reina had been sent off in a previous game for violent conduct (another thing you don't see from GKs)), while in the game it never happens.

Anyone who doesn't believe it should go through their GK's statistics over several seasons and see how many fouls they have committed and if they have any (that aren't for handball) should post them up here.

Doesn't bother me that much though, just means I never need a GK on the bench.

[Smurf]

I've read on the forums/blogs before that the simulation for keepers getting red cards in collisions with players is very complex and they are aware of it, it's just very hard to implement without having your goalkeeper sent off every 2nd game.

I'd rather they left that part of the simulation out of the game entirely until they perfect it. They are aware of it, they are working on it.

[QWERTYOP]

In all my years of playing FM, i've never put a keeper on the bench, and it's NEVER bitten me in the arse. Ever. Not once.

[Kenco]

I've read on the forums/blogs before that the simulation for keepers getting red cards in collisions with players is very complex and they are aware of it, it's just very hard to implement without having your goalkeeper sent off every 2nd game.

I'd rather they left that part of the simulation out of the game entirely until they perfect it. They are aware of it, they are working on it.

Exactly. I'd rather they left it as it was than got it all wrong. Best for them to work on it until it's perfected.

[milnerpoint]

I personally think they should just stop making the game, close the doors and send everyone home, i mean how can they possibly carry on without this in the game?! Outrage.

[theboydonegood]

I personally think they should just stop making the game, close the doors and send everyone home, i mean how can they possibly carry on without this in the game?! Outrage.

do shut up dear!

The opening poster has correctly pointed out that the keepers rarely commit fouls against other players - whether you think it is important or not is down to personal choice but enough with the uber lame sarcastic posting.

[theboydonegood]

Exactly. I'd rather they left it as it was than got it all wrong. Best for them to work on it until it's perfected.

Thats fine by me too and a good reason not to have it in until its perfected what puzzles me is the people trying to argue against it being there in the first place as if its better to try and argue against the feature itself than say anything critical about the game.

Its a puzzling condition that I have named 'Apple Syndrome'

[spankie]

In a reply to the OP's post in another thread PaulC said

It definitely can happen but I'll hold my hands up and say not often enough.

I hope in time we will perfect the regularity of stuff like that but for now with parts of the ME being re-written we need to concentrate on eliminating the issues that would cause most annoyance if not fixed before Gold.

So this is in the ME, it's just a lot rarer then it is IRL

[Smurf]

I don't know why people argue that it shouldn't be there? It should definitely be in there.

I just understand why they haven't put it in yet. Because it's complex.

All well and good saying it should be in the game, but demanding it for the next release, or next years release is a bit over the top.

When it's ready to be implemented it will be implemented. I'm ok with that.

[milnerpoint]

It def should be there, but its hardly game breaking. Id rather it was put in when it works properly, not just so we can see red cards flying around.

[spankie]

It already is implemented, its just so rare that most people will never see it.

[Lurk Lurkington]

I didn't say it shouldn't be in the game. I was just commenting on the OP's overreaction to something that isn't a 'massive part' of the game. Like Milnerpoint says, when it's able to work, put it in the game.

[Kenco]

It already is implemented, its just so rare that most people will never see it.

But is it?

I've not seen any evidence to prove that GKs ever commit a foul on an opposing player that leads to a penalty. I've not played many seasons on FM12 granted, but played a lot on FM11 and never saw it. Also, nobody has ever posted a video on this forum to prove it happens.

[Smurf]

See post #32

[theboydonegood]

I didn't say it shouldn't be in the game. I was just commenting on the OP's overreaction to something that isn't a 'massive part' of the game. Like Milnerpoint says, when it's able to work, put it in the game.

Nah you just made a lame sarcastic analogy - this succeeded in making me think that you are pretty dim

Then posted you are going to make a list of people who say they arent going to by FM and then check them against this to see if they did buy it - This merely confirmed my earlier suspicions.

Now you are trying to re-write what you actually said.

Bravo!

[Neil Brock]

As others have said it's something we're aware of and we're looking into. Unfortunately as someone else has already said, the way in which collision detection works means it's very hard to implement and get it exactly right - we don't want keepers being sent off left right and centre. We appreciate it's something people very much want to see in the game, as do we, but until we can have it working to a satisfactory level then we can't increase it. After doing a quick bit of research, in the Premier League according to official statistics there have only been straight reds in league matches for keepers four times over the last five seasons (if someone has stats which prove this wrong do let me know), so in real life (at the highest level at least) it doesn't happen as often as you'd probably think.

[theboydonegood]

There will also be times when a penalty was awarded but no red card?

Reina at Old Trafford when LFC won 4-1 immediately springs to mind?

[milnerpoint]

Nah you just made a lame sarcastic analogy - this succeeded in making me think that you are pretty dim

Then posted you are going to make a list of people who say they arent going to by FM and then check them against this to see if they did buy it - This merely confirmed my earlier suspicions.

Now you are trying to re-write what you actually said.

Bravo!

For someone advocating for good reponses, your post comes across as a bit of a contradiction. Dont come about all high and mighty and then insult memebers to get your point across.

[Kenco]

As others have said it's something we're aware of and we're looking into. Unfortunately as someone else has already said, the way in which collision detection works means it's very hard to implement and get it exactly right - we don't want keepers being sent off left right and centre. We appreciate it's something people very much want to see in the game, as do we, but until we can have it working to a satisfactory level then we can't increase it. After doing a quick bit of research, in the Premier League according to official statistics there have only been straight reds in league matches for keepers four times over the last five seasons (if someone has stats which prove this wrong do let me know), so in real life (at the highest level at least) it doesn't happen as often as you'd probably think.

The issue isn't just red cards though, it's the complete lack of any fouls by a keeper (excluding the handball outside the box). IRL these often just get a yellow card or even no card if they are not preventing a goalscoring opportunity. I don't know the real life stats on this but it's obviously enough to make the disparity between real life and the game noticeable.

[Neil Brock]

Well if someone wants to go through seasons worth of match reports and get us a rough figure we'd be happy to use it!

But yeah, we are aware the levels are under what they 'should' be. I'd also say IRL the lower down the football pyramid you go the more chance you'd encounter poor decision making from keepers hence this occurring more often.

[Kenco]

See post #32

That's not proof, it's just a vague answer to a question about GKs being sent off and doesn't relate to the issue of collisions.

[theboydonegood]

For someone advocating for good reponses, your post comes across as a bit of a contradiction. Dont come about all high and mighty and then insult memebers to get your point across.

I dont see how I insulted anyone

[milnerpoint]

that you are pretty dim

If Lurk finds being called "dim" a compliment then i will take back my comment.

[Smurf]

The issue isn't just red cards though, it's the complete lack of any fouls by a keeper (excluding the handball outside the box). IRL these often just get a yellow card or even no card if they are not preventing a goalscoring opportunity. I don't know the real life stats on this but it's obviously enough to make the disparity between real life and the game noticeable.

Neil Brock has already said

the way in which collision detection works means it's very hard to implement and get it exactly right - we don't want keepers being sent off left right and centre.

They are aware that the collisions don't work as intended. They are extremely rare in the game and they can't increase the collision rate without having red cards left right and center.

I'm sure that they will have it right at some point - but they are working on it.

[theboydonegood]

If Lurk finds being called "dim" a compliment then i will take back my comment.

I didnt call him dim, i said his posts made me think he is dim, which they did. Thats not to say he is though. He may be president of mensa for all i know.......

[Kenco]

I agreed earlier that I'd rather they worked to get it right before changing anything, I just don't believe there is currently anything in the ME for collisions between GKs and opposition players.

He said it's very hard to implement, which could suggest that it's not been implemented at all and they are holding it back until they get it right. Which is fine by me.