FM13; those who aren't excited, why not?

[bearsy2]

I am not planning on buying it. More likely due to my age and not being able to justify spending money on something I am not likely to play. I guess you just grow up, eventually. Long over due in my case.

[BiggusD]

I am not excited, but I will probably buy it anyways. I would have to be disgusted with it not to, and I doubt it will be that bad.

Here's what would have made me excited:

UI: ctrl +/- so my eyes don't hurt. Not included.

AI: Realistic manager, player and media/fans behaviour. Not included.

Matches: all 22 players on the pitch aware of where the ball is (and where the other 21 are) at all times and reacting/proacting to this simultaneously. Not included.

Tactics: Position not determining player behaviour, and Width using the ball as point of radius and not the kick-off spot. Not included.

The players: Less randomization of players; that is, generated players are variations of certain player types involving all attributes. This ensures both that the game retains the already existing player types, and that not all world-class strikers look exactly the same because they are essentially maxed out player characters from an RPG. Not included.

Am I asking too much?

[RBKalle]

BiggusD's point about randomized players and The Hand of God's whole post reflect some of the reasons I'm not overly excited about FM13.

That is, despite the intriguing additions (DoF, transfer deadline frenzy) and the perplexing-yet-potentially ok ones (training).

But in the end it all boils down to SI concentrating on marketable "new and improved!" features instead of fixing the core of the game, aka AI squad building, players development, newgens and the whole tactical side of the game.

I know having "CLASSIC AND CHALLENGE MODE!" printed on the box (or advertised on the Steam page) is much more captivating than explaining how now AI clubs will stop going PSG and splashing silly money on the 5th winger despite them playing 4-4-2- diamond... But I also maintain it's disappointing we've been reporting bugs and issues for years to no avail.

Sure, those who'll just play a couple of seasons before being bored with winning trebles year after year won't notice, or won't mind... But frankly all the new shiny features will turn out crap if they're just the fancy icing on a stale, half-baked cake.

We'll ultimately give in and eat that cake because it's either that or no cake at all, but it'll not taste good.

[gmilitao]

I'm a little bit disappointed... i don't see big features, like changes in training, tatics or finances. 3d match looks like the same and no news about the editor... but, i like changes in the network game and the transfer deadline day.

I like to see in FM 14 more interaction beetween SI and fans, for example, pools to choose some features... could be a idea.

[Svenc]

I like some of the additions mentioned so far, but I'm not overly excited because I'm not overly excited by follow ups in annual sports game series by definition. I've been playing footbal management games for two decades now and used to swith to a new one every three to four years on average, FM 2011 and 2012 being the only ever exception so far. On one hand annual sports series make perfect sense, as they ship with the data for each new season - of which there are tons and tons and tons of in FM, much more than in any other sports game. But if you're really expecting ground-breaking featueres in each release on FM, I think that judging from what is going on elsewhere just as well, and that with much bigger teams and budgets, that is not very sensible an expectation to have. The credo always is "evolution but revolution", but since not all of that evolutionary steps are happening in the area you personally prefer them to be, and it is unrealistic to demand otherwise, it's always best to wait for the demo. I'll do so myself.

edit: That said, I could care less about "what a community", whoever that community is, wants. Taken to the most extreme, this ends up in design by commitee, a game targeted at everyone messed up for anyone. Whilst it's important assessing feedback, it's even more important to have a clear and consistent goal and vision on the design team, in particular as players often ask for something they think they want rather than what they actually want, that is: People often don't really know what they wanted to play all along until they actually get to play it.

Since writing my last post I installed FIFA Manager 2012 demo and have written another post on the wishlist thread.

I've only played FIFA Manager for about an hour...

Yeah, I've seen that. Play a bit longer and you'll notice that: The idea of having more positional control is fine. However, as previously on FM, the arrows you like so much make players do runs no matter of any circumstance, such as their own judgement, the current situation at hand, anything. As such they're both unrealistic and the cause of many many exploits - as they used to be in FM. Furthermore, the ability to move players "freely" on the tactics screen ultimately doesn't quite add up. In FM, a players positioning as well as behavior isn't finalized by placing him into the seemingly more rigid fixed slots on the tactics screen. But moreso the instructions you are giving him (and the PPMs he comes with) - something that is pretty much ignored by FIFA Manager throughout all game. Again, play it a bit further and you'll notice that whilst in FM Robben actually prefers to cut inside and take shots in FM, edited attributes mean comparably little on the 3D in FIFA Manager, and most bizarre of all: You cannot cause your side to do anything else but playing a direct attacking game, no matter how much you tell them to waste time, play it safe and sit back or anything, they'll pump the ball forward regardless, always. Apart from a player's positioning, there is no strategy whatsoever. The match sim in particular really is about as bad as its reputation, and coming from Germany, where the game is developed by a rather small studio, I can tell you that the developer has a bit of a history with that, going back ten years and more, sadly. Apart from the football, the series is not as bad as some people argue, at least some ideas in it anyway, it's just always a pity when the football in a football management game doesn't quite hold up.

[soccer316]

Haven't been excited for FM for about 3 years, nor have I purchased one since FM10. It has become a convoluted mess of a "game". Will try the demo like I do every year, but highly doubt I will be buying it unless there are major gameplay changes.

[THOG]

edit: That said, I could care less about "what a community", whoever that community is, wants. Taken to the most extreme, this ends up in design by commitee, a game targeted at everyone messed up for anyone. Whilst it's important assessing feedback, it's even more important to have a clear and consistent goal and vision on the design team, in particular as players often ask for something they think they want rather than what they actually want, that is: People often don't really know what they wanted to play all along until they actually get to play it.

But the vast majority of what people are asking for are very general improvements: an AI that builds a squad around a coherent tactical vision, a player development system that ensures the 2054 world is similar to the real 2012 world in terms of the distribution of player types/personality types and formations that operate like their real world counterparts (mainly 4231, 433 and 3-man defensive systems). Granted, there are numerous threads where people discuss possible ways to do this and any specific strategy for addressing these issues should take both casual and hardcore players into account, but this is quite far off from people demanding the return of arrows or some other highly specific new feature (e.g., spend your salary on a snowmobile, ability to design training drills, PA-free development system, etc.)

With that said, dissatisfaction amidst the "community" has less to do with specific proposals being ignored and everything to do with the sense (perhaps justified, perhaps not) that these big, fundamental issues are being largely ignored as most of the developmental focus goes towards expanding peripheral modules for the sole purpose of having 7 or 8 bullet points with which to advertise the new version. Obviously, SI shouldn't haphazardly follow every suggestion made on these forums, but it would be nice to know if there is a clear and consistent goal/vision for addressing the issues with long-term saves and the tactical module. For example, the ME has/is apparently been/being completely redeveloped, but the only ME videos we've had have told us exactly nothing about actual changes to the ME mechanics. Is defending better? How? Do defenders still tackle twice as much as they do in real life? Is space marked well enough so your players will actually carry out a Spanish-style one-touch passing system rather than always seeing that vast, verdant meadow left for them to run into as the best decision? Can you finally get high-work rate AML/R to consistently track back? Do centrebacks recognize if you're playing with aggressive wingbacks? Does width finally account for ball position? Do the CF and AMC in a 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 take account of the other's positioning as opposed to standing on one another's feet when out of possession? We don't know. We do know that the graphics are a little better and the ball is evidently still bouncing off the backs of attacking players with alarming frequency.

The idea of having more positional control is fine. However, as previously on FM, the arrows you like so much make players do runs no matter of any circumstance, such as their own judgement, the current situation at hand, anything. As such they're both unrealistic and the cause of many many exploits - as they used to be in FM. Furthermore, the ability to move players "freely" on the tactics screen ultimately doesn't quite add up.

Now, getting into specifics, no one mentioned arrows or complete positional freedom. There's a vast spectrum of simple, wholly manageable options that can be integrated into the tactics designer before we get to the range of potentially game-breaking systems. These include things like a tracking back slider, one or two more "wide play" instructions for CMs and CBs, position-specific time-wasting/possession tactics instructions, etc. A real 3-5-2 should be possible. Real 700+ passes per game tiki-taka should be possible. A 4-1-2-1-2 where the CM's look to move to the flanks in the final third should be possible. If the ME can't "handle" it, adjusting for these instructions should be priority #1. REAL tactical systems shouldn't be dismissed as "exploits."

And that's just for real players. The AI still hasn't taken one step towards catching up to the limited options that players have. The AI still has no idea what an inverted winger is, and the tactics preferred by the majority of regen managers 10-15 years into the game seem to be based on the assumption that Tony Pulis is the great tactical visionary of our time.

Right now, the ME does a pretty good job of depicting the kind of football that was being played in 1999, but it's almost 2013 and big changes are long overdue.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

edit: That said, I could care less about "what a community", whoever that community is, wants. Taken to the most extreme, this ends up in design by commitee, a game targeted at everyone messed up for anyone. Whilst it's important assessing feedback, it's even more important to have a clear and consistent goal and vision on the design team, in particular as players often ask for something they think they want rather than what they actually want, that is: People often don't really know what they wanted to play all along until they actually get to play it.

http://snarkygrammarguide.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/good-stuff-john-cleese-couldnt-care.html

Enjoy

xxx

[SmurfDude]

If not for the announcement of FMC I don't think I'd be that bothered about FM13. This is because it's become such an enormous beast of a game that I don't have the time to micromanage everything. I found myself taking weeks to complete a season in FM12 and I become bored with it. I basically just want to sign players. pick my team, watch some highlights in glorious 3D, and win stuff (hopefully).

[QWERTYOP]

If not for the announcement of FMC I don't think I'd be that bothered about FM13. This is because it's become such an enormous beast of a game that I don't have the time to micromanage everything. I found myself taking weeks to complete a season in FM12 and I become bored with it. I basically just want to sign players. pick my team, watch some highlights in glorious 3D, and win stuff (hopefully).

Sounds like you'll be able to play the full game if you hire a DoF.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I am excited, the international improvements are about ten years late.

But having seen the 'football style request' thing I'm now not too keen. FM's new features always tend to be overblown and error-some, it might be safer to wait for 14 when everyone has beta-tested them. We'll see, I'll wait for forum feedback first.

[Svenc]

Real 700+ passes per game tiki-taka should be possible. .

I wouldn't worry that much about the quantity of data in this case. In general, the statistics in FM are very comparable to the real thing in most cases. But you've also got to remember that FM is still not happening 100% in "real-time", and I have no idea if SI plan to expand on that. As SI say so themselves, they are simulating every one eight of a second, which means one second in FM is 0.8 seconds in real-time. You'll notice that when putting the speed sliders to the medium (normal) settings. Simple maths, the actual playing time of a match in FM is a tad above of that of an actual football match without stoppage time, that is the time when a real game isn't actually "on" (ball out of play, players injuried, build-up to set pieces, etc.). Which is about the best part of an hour real-time. To tell it a bit more straight: Matches in FM are cut about 20% short on time compared to the real thing.

Now if the style rather than the actual data that goes along with it in real-life football isn't doable, that is something else. But would still not being noticed by most people, I guess. Obviously there is a hardcore audience that craves for more detailed tactical real-life accuracy, but the majority likely are pleased that, in general, there are various and very different tactical styles and strategies doable in the game, and quite many decisions that go along with it. I recently played the demo of PES 2013, and the Barcelona AI doesn't play anything NEAR the real Barcelona. As any AI opponent, they're rushing it upfield as quickly as possible. Now FIFA/PES are essentially one-way soccer sims, in that time is cut short in favor of constant action, but there's also a glorification of the real sports going on, as most direct free kicks for instance go straight on target, and that it is possible to comfortably pass the ball around even with the weakest sides in the game. Rather recently I read an interview in which Messi admitted that his virtual self is far better than himself - and yes, he does play himself in these games.

But I think for most people those games are still the point of reference in terms of video games and the sports. I've got to admit that - for the most part - FM's engine is quite fine for me myself, apart from perhaps the man-against-man defending. I'm fine with that it's a video game, quite accurate for that, but also not quite like the real thing, always tried to be improved, but it is certainly good for some people to be further pushing it. My personal qualms are more the lax competition on the transfer markets and the AI that goes along with it, and the rather simplified scouting - those have immediate and far greater impacts on the game to me, but as with anything, that is a personal thing.

[Shake Appeal]

I'm not that excited mainly because I played the last two versions for hundreds upon hundreds of hours, and they still don't seem to be addressing the biggest-ticket item of all: the AI.

But there are still plenty of little features I'm excited about, especially improvements to scouting and the backroom, and most of all the improvements to loans and co-ownerships. As someone who largely plays in Italy and largely focuses on youth, those will help hugely.

[Dave C]

I would say that they've done some tremendous feature work this year, and I'm really optimistic and hopeful about all that.

But, I'm not excited for two reasons.

Firstly, all the new features around club styles, manager tactical-targeting, coaching, staffing, development etc will mean nothing if the AI squad management and financial management/contracting have not been fixed. And there's been not one word, not one question answered, in any thread around this. Years as a researcher and tester, it was always my biggest frustration, and it's still not been addressed. Again, I'm hopeful, because hopefully they realise their 'new features' in this area will break without fixing the underlying mechanics. But years of frustration mean I'm beyond excitement. I'm hopefully, but pessimistic!

The second reason I'm not excited is, I'm a grown man, and it's a computer game!

[davidbowie]

Hardly anything of actual value has improved. Nothing in the core game has improved. Squad AI hasn't been talked about. Manager transfer AI hasn't been talked about. Contract AI. Board AI. Facility issues. No improvements. Finances will still only be on a month-to-month basis, and we will not get even a basic yearly summary of what our financial people believe the club will have at the end of the year.

They've wrecked the training module.

They spent all of this year making a casual friendly sub-game instead of making their core game work properly, then allowing people to choose their own features to speed up the game.

They didn't need an "FM Casual" mode. They needed a set of options that you can choose to add or remove in-game and giving players the option to offput those they keep but don't want to worry about to the assistant/DOF.

[Dave C]

Nothing in the core game has improved. Squad AI hasn't been talked about. Manager transfer AI hasn't been talked about.

Manager transfer AI *has* been talked about. They'll now look for players that suit their tactical preferences more.

Plus, not "talked about" doesn't mean "not improved". Blogs nearly always focus on features, and "above the hood" stuff. Under the hood never gets a blog.

[davidbowie]

Manager transfer AI *has* been talked about. They'll now look for players that suit their tactical preferences more.

Plus, not "talked about" doesn't mean "not improved". Blogs nearly always focus on features, and "above the hood" stuff. Under the hood never gets a blog.

But their AI is still stupid so they will pick the wrong players, or pick the wrong position to improve, or buy 30 million players and keep them in the reserves.

[Dave C]

But their AI is still stupid so they will pick the wrong players, or pick the wrong position to improve, or buy 30 million players and keep them in the reserves.

I refer you to my post directly before yours (#66).

[Keyzer Soze]

But their AI is still stupid so they will pick the wrong players, or pick the wrong position to improve, or buy 30 million players and keep them in the reserves.

Liverpool bought Andy Carrol in real life. I never seen a transfer that stupid from a AI manager.

[THOG]

I wouldn't worry that much about the quantity of data in this case. In general, the statistics in FM are very comparable to the real thing in most cases.

This is true in the case of most attacking stats but the defending stats that the ME produces are nothing like real life. And this reflects the fact that the defending is the core problem with the ME. The difficulty of implementing a true one-touch passing system is largely a result of the fact that terrible positioning means that players almost always see dribbling into some vast stretch of space as the best decision. It also means that defensive and counterattacking tactics, while not impossible to do well, are nowhere as effective as they are in real life (which is why it's rare to see the lower end of the table get anywhere close to the 30 points they consistently get in real life).

Beyond that, SI admits that 3-man defenses don't work which would have been fine 3 years ago but not now that they are once again the norm in Italy.

And again, the AI's tactical options are very limited and make it impossible to accurately represent most of today's great managers. This isn't just a cosmetic issue either. The fact that Barcelona, for example, typically plays Messi and Iniesta as traditional wingers compromises their effectiveness just as badly as poor transfer policy.

Are these "hardcore" concerns? Yes, to the extent that one has to have explored the game thoroughly to develop them, but that doesn't mean that addressing these concerns wouldn't vastly improve the casual experience as well.

Liverpool bought Andy Carrol in real life. I never seen a transfer that stupid from a AI manager.

But Andy Carroll isn't a bad player. It was a poor transfer because he was bought for a terrible tactical system by a manager who exhibited too much bias towards players of a certain nationality. With a transfer AI that looks to fill roles for a specific tactic, poor managers will still make poor purchases as in real life, but they'll do it for a clearly defined reason as they do in real life (in Carroll's case, "I want a big, English target man for my wingers to launch desperate crosses at while the rest of the team plays overly defensive possession football!")

[junwenteh]

Amazing posts by "Hand of God", he has spoken what my heart speaks. One thing I've noticed is that how sarcastic his words were, FM has become more of a market-biased game, rather than answer the needs of us die heart fans. (Can't remember the max number of seasons I played, played until an 8GB RAM laptop crashed)

[kb77]

I'm not all that excited either by this coming version. I'm quite happy with FM12. But as this is the only game I play, I don't mind paying for it every year. It will certainly have problems at first with all the new things they added, but I'm sure will be sorted by next March.

I just wish they stopped with all the media and other communication stuff in the game. These things become redundant and boring fast as you can only have so many options. They will not be able to make it dynamic enough to seem like you are really communicating with the footballing world or your players.

[Äktsjon Männ]

On the subject of media interaction, did anyone have an issue with the way it was done before the press conferences, when you had one question before each match and about certain events? It was perfect IMO, it indicated a media presence well enough and you could try to make a difference with the answers or simply refuse to comment. Trying to expand it into full press conferences has been an utter failure because it simply cannot have the variety it needs to not become repetitive and mindnumbingly dull.

[RBKalle]

I don't even think it's fair to turn this into some sort of "us vs them" holy war about who has bigger FM balls or about which group of fans should be more important...

The disappointing part, the one SI and, mostly, SEGA are legitimately getting negative feedback about is about not having fixed chronic issues about core portions (or, to reflect how the game's built, modules) of FM.

AI being utterly crap at pretty much EVERYTHING on the transfer market due to the horrible Reputation+PPA combo.

Not to mention the manager merry-go-round, the farcical retirements of perfectly good players who haven't been signed in months because of, you guessed it, reputation!

And let's gloss over "minor" issues like match ratings, awards, player's psychotic reactions, asinine media interaction... And the "buy at 4x, sell at 1.5x if you're lucky" transfer policy

Seriously, we'd write a list of 500+ "old features" that haven't changed in years despite the bug section being flooded with reports, analysis and tests...

So yeah, it's not about silly elitism... I'd be HAPPY to play FMC for fun, or even for real should I grow bored of FM again (or should I struggle to spare a couple of hours a day).

I wouldn't even mind them scrapping some of the features altogether if it'd mean we'd finally get the CORE OF THE GAME right.

But as it looks like they devoted a lot of time to implement a glorified FMH/FML version into FM instead of addressing what should have been addressed in FM2010 already, I feel I'm entitled to keep my hopes as low as I can and being skeptical about the game until proven wrong.

[Guest]

I'll buy it this year as I always do, because it has an official data update and it's the best game of its type ever.

I was hoping to hear talk of a brand new match engine and fixed AI squad management. Instead it's a few tweaks and a bunch of cosmetic changes. I already know that the new media interaction will be trial and error until I find the correct combination of answers to ensure morale doesn't drop. Just like I know that my players are going to be doing some REALLY dumb stuff on the pitch and the game is not going to explain to me why.

So no, I'm not excited as of yet, but if the demo match engine looks like a decent improvement over FM2012 then I'll probably be a bit more into it.

[THOG]

So yeah, it's not about silly elitism... I'd be HAPPY to play FMC for fun, or even for real should I grow bored of FM again (or should I struggle to spare a couple of hours a day).

I wouldn't even mind them scrapping some of the features altogether if it'd mean we'd finally get the CORE OF THE GAME right.

I won't play FMC, but I don't have a problem with it. In fact, I'm hoping it provides a platform for developing and testing new, simplified modules to replace modules that have become irreparably overcomplicated in the full game. Obviously, one of the main challenges with fixing things like reputation is that the full game is now such an uncontrollable behemoth of intricately interconnected code. Ideally, FMC shouldn't just be Football Manager with less features but an ongoing effort to see where the game can be improved by going back to basics and taking a simpler approach to certain systems.

[Linie]

don't know if that's been said before, but i just like to have the feature/reason i bought FM12 to work, Add/Remove Leagues, which is broken since the last patch. And all nice and shiny with the loan options and such, i'd be happy if i can actually loan out all the (real) talent that just needs some match time.

[Zoetermeer]

Hardly anything of actual value has improved. Nothing in the core game has improved. Squad AI hasn't been talked about. Manager transfer AI hasn't been talked about. Contract AI. Board AI. Facility issues. No improvements. Finances will still only be on a month-to-month basis, and we will not get even a basic yearly summary of what our financial people believe the club will have at the end of the year.

They've wrecked the training module.

They spent all of this year making a casual friendly sub-game instead of making their core game work properly, then allowing people to choose their own features to speed up the game.

They didn't need an "FM Casual" mode. They needed a set of options that you can choose to add or remove in-game and giving players the option to offput those they keep but don't want to worry about to the assistant/DOF.

You are reading my mind. Last year's improvements were not at all off-putting to me, but this year I find myself almost angry that so much work has gone into adding "stuff" around a core game that has apparently been flawed for years. But then again, I only started playing in FM10, so what do I know...

[Lech]

Was hoping for more options in the tactics system, like:

-being able to familiarize more tactics, one for getting an early goal (high tempo), one for time wasting/holding on to a lead, one for all out attack, one for matches against stronger/weaker opposition etc.

-having a wide midfield but having the strikers close together in e.g. a 4-4-2

-pushing the central defenders wide when attacking

-having players alternate roles but not positions (useful when you have two offensively good central defenders, but only want one to attack at a time)

-more focus on the (tactics) classic mode or a revamp of the other mode, don't like mixing the two and certainly don't want my limited CB to have almost as much creative freedom as my trequarterista.

Am still hoping for a more intelligent match engine, sick of seeing my left winger/left central midfielder not covering for my overly optimistic left back.

A lot of nice new features, but I don't feel even more repetetive clicking in boring press conferences, team talks etc. is really something most of us are eagerly looking forward to.

[ViG1980]

Not sure why people are saying the AI hasn't improved. Did you watch the videos? He clearly talks about how they have changed how the AI managers go after players.

Whether it actually works is another issue but they have clearly looked to address this in some form.

[Kenco]

I was looking forward to the idea of using FMC with an edited database, but it seems that you won't be able to do this. So I am now the opposite of excited.

[Justino]

Whilst pre ordering it, I was excited so to bridge the gap I started to play fm12 again. After a dew games I was bored and really didn't want to put the effort in. Now I'm worried I'm at the age of not getting excited.

[edwingray]

Didn't buy FM 2012 because of Steam and it seems unlikely that I'll buy it this year either, as there once again appears to be no alternative to Steam.

[Kenco]

Is Steam all that bad? Once it's up and running you just set it to offline mode and never hear from it again.

[Wakers]

That would be true, if offline mode was the least bit reliable. It isn't.

I like Steam, I buy a lot of games through them, but their service has two drawbacks;

1) Customer support is horrid, and their whole business ethos is probably not within the realms of EU law if anyone looked into it deep enough.

2) Offline mode has a tendency only to work properly when you don't need it.

[BiggusD]

That would be true, if offline mode was the least bit reliable. It isn't.

I like Steam, I buy a lot of games through them, but their service has two drawbacks;

1) Customer support is horrid, and their whole business ethos is probably not within the realms of EU law if anyone looked into it deep enough.

2) Offline mode has a tendency only to work properly when you don't need it.

Yes you need to plan your internet connection problems prior to them actually occuring. I don't know why it is necessary for the program to be online in order to go into offline mode... kinda defeats the purpose?

[spankie]

Didn't buy FM 2012 because of Steam and it seems unlikely that I'll buy it this year either, as there once again appears to be no alternative to Steam.

You might as well give up on playing a modern version FM ever again as Steam gives so many advantages to SI that it's highly unlikely that they'll look for alternatives.

[Guest]

Yes you need to plan your internet connection problems prior to them actually occuring. I don't know why it is necessary for the program to be online in order to go into offline mode... kinda defeats the purpose?

What total BS..

[Kenco]

When does offline mode not work? As soon as I get the game I set to offline mode, then you never need to hear from it again. I moved house and didn't have the internet for 3 weeks, was still able to play FM because it was in offline mode. No problem.

[Wakers]

The amount of times I was sat in a hotel trying to play Torchlight on my laptop last year only to receive a "no connection to server" error message was infuriating.

That's even after setting it to offline mode the day before traveling. It feels like a 50/50 chance as to whether it works properly or not. I took the laptop with 6 times last year and 3 times it didn't work. When I say "the laptop" I had two different laptops over that period, so it wasn't a hardware issue.

[Kenco]

I must've played 30 times or more without an internet connection, so I guess that was like spinning a coin and getting heads 30 times in a row?

Strange.

[edwingray]

You might as well give up on playing a modern version FM ever again as Steam gives so many advantages to SI that it's highly unlikely that they'll look for alternatives.

Unfortunately, you are probably right.

I had toyed with the idea of testing Steam, but I honestly cannot understand why I have to have this thing running to play the game. I could accept having to have a Steam account to activate the game, but I feel that I should then be able to disconnect from Steam to then play the game and not first connect only to go offline. It should be my choice to reconnect to Steam, i.e. when updates are available etc.

[stevie_G_32201]

I'm not excited one bit, not watched a video or read about it but my preorder has been made a while ago. Why per order without information I hear you ask? I know will spend hours, days, weeks on it and st the price it will cost its money well spent. The more you think about it a game like this will give you much more enjoyment per pound/euro whatever your paying in.

[Barkermush]

I'm not so this year.

I'd like to see them improve the matchday sounds, but it looks like it's not been done.

I'd like them to improve the Championship TV games, instead of just Saturday tea time games every week (no Friday night TV games/Sunday Afternoon TV games etc) and this has not been added to FM13. (Well a mod said it's not been added, but it's something they are still aware of, as I've been asking for this to be improved for a quite while now)

Looking at the preview videos for FM13, the stadiums all look the same again (even though new stadiums are shiny.. and old ones are rusty looking/ in need of a lick of pain etc)

It's the same old basic design.. away fans always to the left behind the goal and about 4 different stadium designs (dependant on the size/ capacity of the stadium) so out of all the teams in the game, your stadium will be one of 4 basic designs. It gets boring/reptitive really quickly.

Even all the corner flags are the same colour (orange/yellow) at every stadium on FM. In real life, most teams have the corner flags coloured to their team colours. I can't remember the last time I saw a corner flag coloured the default colour (yellow/orange squares) in real life. The next time your at a football game, or watching football on TV.. have alook at the corner flags, and see what colour they are.

Plus with alot more new features added (new loan system etc) from past experience with FM and new features.. I know they don't always function properly when they are first introduced, and they need working on for the following FM. (Agent fees/fan confidence, in past FM's)

Like many others though, I couldn't resist the £19.50 price. It would be rude not to at that price, but I'm not excited this year.

In the past I'd be checking the forum everyday, checking the latest videos, waiting for the demo etc. This year I'm not that bothered, But I do hope FM13 will be one of the best FM's to date though.

[Bicycle]

I'll still probably get it but nothing about the new game has really excited me.

[Welsh Wizard]

I will get it but I see it more as a transfer update atm.

Nothing ground breaking a few new things I like such as more options when loaning out players. FMC I doubt I will use.

As some have said ME needs to improve and hand in hand the tactics side can get better and more indepth and advanced such as different player positions for attacking and defending.

Improved AI team building.

There has likely been small adjustments to these areas but nothing ground breaking and there hasn't really been anything for the past few games. Lack of competition plagues what us consumers get in many different genre of games and wouldn't be suprised if that was the case with FM without knowing the figures of Fifa Manager sales and says a lot when Fifa Manager has rose to second where there was 3/4 Football Management Games in challenging for top spot in times gone by.

[Guest]

you guys are really something

[Ropa23]

Not that excited because it will basically be the same game as FM12, which in turn was the same as FM11, etc etc.

The stuff they add in like tones, press conferences etc are all features which everyone skips and adds nothing to the game.

I will still play it, but I find I spend less and less time playing it as the years go by

[Bababui]

Unfortunately, you are probably right.

I had toyed with the idea of testing Steam, but I honestly cannot understand why I have to have this thing running to play the game. I could accept having to have a Steam account to activate the game, but I feel that I should then be able to disconnect from Steam to then play the game and not first connect only to go offline. It should be my choice to reconnect to Steam, i.e. when updates are available etc.

You dont need to connevt to Steam to play FM...just go offline and click on the FM icon on your screen.

[edwingray]

You dont need to connevt to Steam to play FM...just go offline and click on the FM icon on your screen.

That doesn't seem to be what others are saying. It sounds to me as though you always first have to load Steam to be able to start FM and you can go offline once the game has loaded.