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Maybe they didn't put up a sticky so as to avoid the ridiculous amount of abuse that accompanies any new announcement about the game. My computer is pretty weedy so I don't suppose I'll notice the improved graphics much. But, it's nice to know if I ever got a decent PC I'd be able to notice the ball reacting to weather or the curl on the passes.

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I dunno, the defensive play still looks pretty bad. Check out 0:45 - three defenders watch the guy in white put in a cross instead of closing him down, or 3:07 - it's a decent pass, but the guy on the left side of the defence just ignores the ball while it floats past him, and only starts running when the striker is far in front.

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They keep talking about improving the graphics and the animations, but players still look like they're gliding along the ground. Is that really so hard to fix?

I appreciate the stuff that's been added, it's definitely noticeable, but none of it helps that basic issue of realism in how players move. It's arguably even more jarring when other aspects are improved.

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They keep talking about improving the graphics and the animations, but players still look like they're gliding along the ground. Is that really so hard to fix?

I appreciate the stuff that's been added, it's definitely noticeable, but none of it helps that basic issue of realism in how players move. It's arguably even more jarring when other aspects are improved.

Yep, totally agree. Like I said in another thread, how many sports games out there still have players ice skating/moonwalking? Many didn't even in the 90's. Why is it so hard to synchronize those animations better? It makes the gameplay feel so rigid and unnatural.

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Looks legit! cant wait.

What gave it away?

Hosted on sigames.com or that Miles was presenting it?

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Yep, animations and ball physics seem better. But these improvements are not so vital for the game as match engine AI changes. Hope we'll got some video about them as well.

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Please do remember that all the video footage is very much work in progress. Thanks :)

After what we watched, this is what we all hoped to read from the SI ME staff :)

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What gave it away?

Hosted on sigames.com or that Miles was presenting it?

umm.. legit as in the match engine looks good.. do you think im stupid?

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Please do remember that all the video footage is very much work in progress. Thanks :)

Yeah I saw the players didn't celebrate the goal, so certainly you're not done yet ;)

I really liked that the striker met a cross and scored. I really disliked that half the chances that were created were long through balls into space. Those are way too easy to pull off in FM12 and previous versions. The difference between a pointless donkey's kick to the opponent keeper, a through ball and a really dumb pass to the opponent defender is hardly measurable on the ball. Only the very best passers can do this on a regular basis.

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umm.. legit as in the match engine looks good.. do you think im stupid?

The term "legit" doesn't mean that something looks good, that's why Cougar2010 - and indeed myself - thought you referred to the video as being "non-fake".

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Well it definitely looks better.

Looking forward as usual to this years game. Was a bit let down by last years...

I'm hoping there is much more in this year's game and most importantly for me, just hoping there's new features around tactics and so on.

Never been able to re-create a Barcelona tactic that mirrors the real Barca. The ME just can't cope and there's never been enough instructions for players etc.

Hope this year that's changed.

Hopefully only 4-5 weeks away?

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This looks really bad, im sorry. What on earth is happening at 2,10 in this video? Thats bowling? And this is supposed to be an improvement with regard to physics?

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This looks really bad, im sorry. What on earth is happening at 2,10 in this video? Thats bowling? And this is supposed to be an improvement with regard to physics?

can you not read? It's a work in progress, judge the final product when its out

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This looks really bad, im sorry. What on earth is happening at 2,10 in this video? Thats bowling? And this is supposed to be an improvement with regard to physics?

lol indeed :D

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Let's be honest, when was the last time work in progress pics and videos were drastically different to the final product? From that video, it looks just like a tweaked FM 12. Then again, I'm not sure if SI ever said anything or it was just rumours that large portion of the ME will be re-written and there will be an entirely new physics engine.

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Really like the new ball pshysics, and the players movements.

The only thing i found a little bit off is the gk movement. I dont know what, but something feels award there.

Look at 1:16

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Really like the new ball pshysics, and the players movements.

The only thing i found a little bit off is the gk movement. I dont know what, but something feels award there.

Look at 1:16

Hmm, not sure what you mean. I'm more concerned about 0:40. We see the ball passed behind the player on the wing, he moonwalks, receives the ball and manages to cross it easily with the three opposition defenders doing nothing. Nice header animation though.

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still defense is as bad as always :(

I hope there's still enough time for some serious work to fix the players defensive intelligence

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Guest avine

Noticed that some animations are really improved and work has been done in goalkeepers. I like also the way ball hits the net ect. Really like them from my view.

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After watching the video, I personally am far from impressed.

I was far from impressed with the implementation of 3D match cameras back in 2009, and haven't used them in either of the three following releases. I use the classic 2D so I understand that my stance is very much in the minority, and the majority of Sports Interactive's customers want a solid Football Management sim, but with great 3D graphics - they don't get bogged down into too much tactical intricities, so therefore won't be irked by the flaws in the match engine in pressing or the inability to play a back three or liberio.

This is where I stand, what Miles said in the video is all well and good, but I couldn't help but want to him to explain in depth how the match engine has been overhauled to allow for greater tactical control and AI challenge - but it just didn't come. Just more and more shiney, new features that add nothing the actual challenge of the game for me.

I'd give the example of continuing to paint a run down shed. You have an old shed, with cracks in the woodwork, but go out an give it lots of new coats of pain - you don't have a new shed, you have an old shed that that looks good, it still leaks, and is still liable to been blown away in a strong wind!

What I'd love to see is a new release that really overhauled the match engine in a way that it is a lot more accurate to how football is played, rather than adding glossy new features that appear to add something to the game, despite being cosmetic and lacking depth. I can live with the ball not curling, or not getting caught in the wind, or Per Metersaker appearing to tower over Aaron Lennon - what will really tire me is an inability to play a back three that works properly, for my team to press united as a collective group, center half moving into the channels, center midfielders dropping into the back line, I could go on..

I understand the majority of people aren't too fussed in regard to such deficiencies mentioned there, and play the game where they just love to take Havant & Waterloville to numerous Champions League in wonderful 3D fashion - and they are the guys who are going to be impressed by new glossy, polishing the turd features - and go out and buy the game. I understand that if SI came out an said we haven't worked on what the game looks like, but we've overhauled how the game and AI plays they obviously wouldn't sell as many games, which is their business to do, because the majority of people won't have their heads turned.

Saying this, I hope I'm wrong, and it's a case that certain things haven't been mentioned in the podcast, and they have been worked on, because FM is a great game and FM13 will no doubt be a game where I waste more countless hours and SI do undeniably great work, and that such relatively small things annoy so much because the bar has been set so high.

I'm eager to view future podcasts, and hear about more improvements to the next release, and hopefully I can get a tad more excited in the coming weeks.

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I absolutely love the 3d match engine from FM11 and I cant wait to buy FM13. An upgrade engine/graphics was one thing I was really hoping for. I really want more of a variety of player models.

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I agree with some people here that the video was a little underwhelming. Though it is a work in progress, I would suspect that the graphics won't improve drastically by release time (but that is just my suspicion, and I hope I'm wrong). If it were a work in progress that will see massive improvement in the near future, they wouldn't have released this video yet, IMO. Most of the pre-release videos of games in general look, at least in the graphics department, pretty close to the final product.

To me, it just looks a little too similar to 2012. But I couldn't care less about graphics -- I hope the match engine AI sees the most improvement.

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The video focused on the 3D end of things. He stated repeatedly in the video that the AI and Match Engine have been completely rewritten. He also said that a lot of work went into the 2D match engine and how that looks and feels.

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But in regard to the 2D match engine, I just get the impression that they've worked on cosmetic features, such as how nice the grass looks from above, how the ball moves, rather than the fundamental workings of the AI and match engine - center backs running forward with the ball, moving wide, rather than just being the same old whilst looking more realistic.

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Listen to the video again.

For instance, if you're playing into a strong wind, then playing long ball football will not be effective. So you'll have to adjust your tactics based on the weather.

He already said "Paul Colyer and his team have rewritten huge amounts of the Match Engines AI to make it even more realistic..."

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Listen to the video again.

For instance, if you're playing into a strong wind, then playing long ball football will not be effective. So you'll have to adjust your tactics based on the weather.

He already said "Paul Colyer and his team have rewritten huge amounts of the Match Engines AI to make it even more realistic..."

They've mentioned it in both videos as well.

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The term "legit" doesn't mean that something looks good, that's why Cougar2010 - and indeed myself - thought you referred to the video as being "non-fake".

Which of course prompted Cougar to make an unnecessary smart-ass remark, which is his specialty. Am surprised he didn't then log in as milnerpoint to also post a riposte.

Anyway as long as defensive movements are more realistic I'll be happy. Liked one of the first animations where a player heads it down to a team mate on the edge of the box.

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That's the problem with using slang terms and/or txt speak on an international message board. Not everyone is going to understand them, and as a general rule, it's best to avoid them. I'm sure that's the point that Cougar was sarcastically trying to make. That being said, that is entirely off topic.

I watched the video on my phone so it's kind of limited, but I liked what I saw. Going to watch it again on my computer and hopefully be able to see a bit more. Looks really exciting, though.

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Which of course prompted Cougar to make an unnecessary smart-ass remark, which is his specialty. Am surprised he didn't then log in as milnerpoint to also post a riposte.

So sorry for trying to add a little humour to the boards :rolleyes:

What is it that annoys you? Is it that I try to help those with genuine issues or that I challenge those that spread false information?

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Really like the new ball pshysics, and the players movements.

The only thing i found a little bit off is the gk movement. I dont know what, but something feels award there.

Look at 1:16

i dont like that the keepers are constantly in a, let call it "banana state", they always bowed standing, even when jumping to block a shot or jumping to punch away a corner

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So sorry for trying to add a little humour to the boards :rolleyes:

What is it that annoys you? Is it that I try to help those with genuine issues or that I challenge those that spread false information?

It's mainly that you're a sarcastic ****.

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They keep talking about improving the graphics and the animations, but players still look like they're gliding along the ground. Is that really so hard to fix?

I appreciate the stuff that's been added, it's definitely noticeable, but none of it helps that basic issue of realism in how players move. It's arguably even more jarring when other aspects are improved.

This video was taken a while back, we have improved the animations since then and made some big improvements to the 'sliding' issue.

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Are there any other videos that could possibly be shared, more up to date ones?

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We may well do some more up to date ones at some point but right now we very busy on the game :-)

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i saw lot of woodworks in the video. didnt make me happy.

i hope this problem is fixed.

In FM 2012 the woodworks were about 1.0 per match. Far too much.

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It seems they have not got round to fixing the fact that the pitch looks incredibly bright, frozen effect, from certain camera angles.

Grass is green. i hope they get round to this.

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It seems they have not got round to fixing the fact that the pitch looks incredibly bright, frozen effect, from certain camera angles.

Grass is green. i hope they get round to this.

This video was taken a while back, we have improved the animations since then and made some big improvements to the 'sliding' issue.

I think they've done more work on this - it's an early video.

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I think the graphics are adequate. What will improve the match experience each year is to get the animations better and better. So more variation in stuff like tackles, shots, passes, headers, jumps, collisions, then more small details like players signalling and communicating either by pointing etc, Then adding even more like jossling, flair moves, I think you get my point! Until theres enough in there for the user to be able to see more of whats going on I myself will probably stick to 2D view since I can just imagine these thing in my head instead!!!

I do like the new ball physics though! They look good. And if much of the underlying match engine has been re-worked then its some great work!

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After watching the video, I personally am far from impressed.

I was far from impressed with the implementation of 3D match cameras back in 2009, and haven't used them in either of the three following releases. I use the classic 2D so I understand that my stance is very much in the minority, and the majority of Sports Interactive's customers want a solid Football Management sim, but with great 3D graphics - they don't get bogged down into too much tactical intricities, so therefore won't be irked by the flaws in the match engine in pressing or the inability to play a back three or liberio.

This is where I stand, what Miles said in the video is all well and good, but I couldn't help but want to him to explain in depth how the match engine has been overhauled to allow for greater tactical control and AI challenge - but it just didn't come. Just more and more shiney, new features that add nothing the actual challenge of the game for me.

I'd give the example of continuing to paint a run down shed. You have an old shed, with cracks in the woodwork, but go out an give it lots of new coats of pain - you don't have a new shed, you have an old shed that that looks good, it still leaks, and is still liable to been blown away in a strong wind!

What I'd love to see is a new release that really overhauled the match engine in a way that it is a lot more accurate to how football is played, rather than adding glossy new features that appear to add something to the game, despite being cosmetic and lacking depth. I can live with the ball not curling, or not getting caught in the wind, or Per Metersaker appearing to tower over Aaron Lennon - what will really tire me is an inability to play a back three that works properly, for my team to press united as a collective group, center half moving into the channels, center midfielders dropping into the back line, I could go on..

I understand the majority of people aren't too fussed in regard to such deficiencies mentioned there, and play the game where they just love to take Havant & Waterloville to numerous Champions League in wonderful 3D fashion - and they are the guys who are going to be impressed by new glossy, polishing the turd features - and go out and buy the game. I understand that if SI came out an said we haven't worked on what the game looks like, but we've overhauled how the game and AI plays they obviously wouldn't sell as many games, which is their business to do, because the majority of people won't have their heads turned.

Saying this, I hope I'm wrong, and it's a case that certain things haven't been mentioned in the podcast, and they have been worked on, because FM is a great game and FM13 will no doubt be a game where I waste more countless hours and SI do undeniably great work, and that such relatively small things annoy so much because the bar has been set so high.

I'm eager to view future podcasts, and hear about more improvements to the next release, and hopefully I can get a tad more excited in the coming weeks.

I totally agree with what you just said. I'd rather an overhaul than just adding tweaks here and there. I'd love my wingers to really track back in a 4321 formation or to press/close-down the opposition in packs. One day, eh?

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I cannot see what the 0.40 clip is meant to "showcase" - I love weather effects, especially snow, but white kits in snow never look the best, the ball is almost invisible, and more of concern I assumed as the clip ran that the ball would hold up in the snow, or some similar physical effect but cannot see anything of such like.

I dont want to seem unappreciative, and this time of year I hang on every video lapping them up but I do wonder sometimes how the clips showcased are selected. The good thing is, the first match I play on demo day always blows me away anyway.

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I totally agree with what you just said. I'd rather an overhaul than just adding tweaks here and there. I'd love my wingers to really track back in a 4321 formation or to press/close-down the opposition in packs. One day, eh?

Watch the video again - listen for the part about completely overhauling the match engine and AI.

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Which of course prompted Cougar to make an unnecessary smart-ass remark, which is his specialty. Am surprised he didn't then log in as milnerpoint to also post a riposte.

:applause: Priceless.

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Lads can ya's give over the shenanigans and keep on topic. This is very childish.

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In a video entitled "Match Engine", there is sadly little more than one minute spent talking about actual improvements to the match engine, things that actually make a difference to the game. Paul's been hard at work overhauling it for two years- and it is one of the most important developments for FM13- so surely it's only right to give it the prominence it deserves? I guess the point is that cameras, stadia, body scaling and head tracking are lovely and all, but they're cosmetic changes that ultimately make no difference to the gameplay whatsoever.

As for the clips, I'm happy to accept the footage is still very early and a WIP, so will cut the poor defending a lot of slack and recognise it's far from the finished article. I do, of course, eagerly await more- ideally a full-length match so we can judge for ourselves- but it still baffles me that this is being skirted around and talked about in the vaguest of terms, especially if the bar has been raised "way, way higher". As something that affects every player of the game, regardless of mode, network or play style, this is one of the most important parts of FM13.

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People are never going to be happy with the match engine.

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