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FM 13 still not 64 Bit?

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at least do us all a favour and stop dishing out duff advice then ffs.

stop living in the dark ages and keep up with the latest tech out there

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It's not "duff advice".

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6 gig being an optimal amount of ram?

how many people do you know that are building tri channel capable systems these days? 8 gigs of ram can be had for under £30 at this time why on earth would you not go for 8 over 4?

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That's if you're building your own computer, Rob.

Most people that come on these forums don't know how to do that, and if they did they wouldn't be asking for advice.

If you're buying a computer online or from a shop - the difference between 4gb and 8gb RAM in price starts at £100 - from what I see from a few sites I just visited. That's at it's lowest on exactly spec'd computers except for RAM. Even the same model with same parts etc. except for the difference of RAM is £100.

I'm advising people to lower their expectations on RAM for football manager - it's not what gets the game running fast.

What gets it running fast is the Processor. My advice is to lower the amount of RAM and use that money to getting a better processor.

RAM can be easily upgrade - as you say for very little. So why waste £100 on 8gb RAM buying online or from a shop, when you can put £100 or more towards a better processor?

And for Football Manager on a 64 bit processor 4gb RAM is loads. Yeh you can go to 6gb or 8gb - but in my view spending £100 going from 4gb to 8gb is a bit ridiculous. I'd rather see the person get a better processor. Add RAM later.

That's all the advice was.

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tbh the best increase in speed I've seen for FM is sticking it on a SSD again a minimimal outlay from £35 upwards for a cheap and cheerful sata 2 ssd these days. I dread to think where you go shopping for pcs that to go from 4-8gig adds £100 to the price.

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If you buy a computer from PC world or Currys then yes you will easily pay and extra £100 for 4gb extra RAM. Not everyone knows a lot about computers, the vast majority of people buy computers from retailers.

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Oh it's not where I go shopping, it's where I see others on this forum go shopping. I've seen huge jumps in price over a measily 4gb RAM.

I've seen people come on the forums asking to find a top of the range laptop for £250 budget. And others saying they have £1500 budget and link to a bunch of computers that are overpriced and underpowered (for that money).

If you're around the forums a lot you see this. My advice has always been "concentrate on the processor" and skimp on the RAM if you're tight on budget. 4gb is absolutely plenty on a 64 bit system - for football manager.

When the price between 6gb RAM and 4gb RAM is neglible then yes - I recommend the 6gb RAM.

But it's the 4gb to 8gb that seems to be a huge difference in price. From what I see.

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I don't know where the 6 GB RAM comes from. 6 GB suggests 1x 4 GB and 1x 2 GB - i.e. mismatched DIMM modules - which means you won't get pure dual-channel. 3x 2 GB restricts you to tri-channel motherboards, which are the old Nehalems, which are largely outclassed by Sandy Bridge unless you have something silly like an overclocked i7-995x. Surely 4 GB is the minimum nowadays, and 8 GB recommended for heavy gaming at the very least?

6 GB will give you worse memory throughput than 4 GB or 8 GB (assuming even DIMM sizes), which will bring performance down, if anything.

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The performance difference isn't that much

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/Feature/167875,triple-channel-memory-kits-vs-dual-channel-on-p55-platform.aspx/4

2x4gb would be best.

In the interest of keeping costs down on the RAM is my only objective - again, rather see the cash go into the processor.

4gb is plenty, as I've said. And I said earlier "Personally - I'd go for the 6gb because I'm greedy"

But you guys are right, techincally 2x4gb is better. But not that much of a difference.

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What's with your bad attitude? This is why I continually question you - because of your attitude and severe lack of understanding of what you're writing.

I'm not all high and mighty - I'm explaining to you that you were incorrect and you won't have it and you continually curse at me in various ways, which is very annoying and I don't deserve to be cursed at... or shouted at (the all caps in your post).

Glad you're able to help others, I never said you couldn't...

You did say the processor would be faster... you are wrong.

Really - you think taking out just that word fixes what you are saying?

You think going for a better processor is a waste of time/money/etc.? Really - that's what you said.

If anything cut back on RAM and go for the better processor. It's far easier to upgrade RAM than it is to upgrade the processor.

Buying a better processor is the first thing to look at when buying a computer for FM - Football Manager is a data processing game.

More RAM does not make the game run faster. It makes the entire computer run smoother, freeing up resources for lots of programs, including Football Manager.

But you have to admit - you were wrong in saying that more RAM makes the Processor faster. Just admit it.

What bad attitude?? Severe lack of knowledge..oh please don't make me laugh and ffs get a grip fella and stop being a big girls blouse its only a forum..nothing personal and what do you mean I said the processor woild be faster?? I ment in general with the 2 systems I outlined and that part about SHOUTING at you honestly cracked me up..why or why do people like yourself take these forums so seriously is beyond me lol

Yes it does fix as I have to keep repeating myself..extra RAM does speed up the game..period.. what? do you think I would give advice if I had'nt experienced it as a FACT

Nope...again I didnt say its a waste of money I said its not at all necesssary and kinda a rash decision to just play one game

If you've got a spare £300 pounds knocking around then I would advise anyone to feel free a 4gig stick of RAM starts @ £25 and a better one around the £30 mark not the £100 you was quoting

Weather you want to call it ..faster/smoother.. it improves the the game period and I will say this over and over again BECAUSE!!!! I upgraded mine..how can you be 100% sure it wont if you've never tried it?

I stick to what I say thank you and I would encourage anyone here to upgrade to a 8gig pirely on my own experience..that said this is my last post on this topic cuz honestly? Its boring me lol

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Why you can't adhere to forum etiquette that you agreed to upon entering the forums is beyond me. We are all bound by the agreement we entered when we signed up on the forums. Trust me, there's lots I'd like to say to you, but it would get me banned.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/228946-Posting-in-Capitals

Yeah you can buy the RAM separately for cheaper. But people come on these forums to ask for advice buying a computer from currys or PC world and have no knowledge how to build or install RAM themselves.

There is a huge difference in price when buying a PC off the shelf in regards to 4gb and 8gb prices.

And good for you that upgrading your RAM gained a significant improvement in game play. But that won't be the same for everyone, unless you know their motherboard, processor, fsb, and ram specs - upgrading RAM will improve the computer overall, not just Football Manager.

I've said this before.

Upgrading to 8gb RAM won't significantly increase the processing speed of the game.

O <<<< going around in circles.

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Why you can't adhere to forum etiquette that you agreed to upon entering the forums is beyond me. We are all bound by the agreement we entered when we signed up on the forums. Trust me, there's lots I'd like to say to you, but it would get me banned.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/228946-Posting-in-Capitals

Yeah you can buy the RAM separately for cheaper. But people come on these forums to ask for advice buying a computer from currys or PC world and have no knowledge how to build or install RAM themselves.

There is a huge difference in price when buying a PC off the shelf in regards to 4gb and 8gb prices.

And good for you that upgrading your RAM gained a significant improvement in game play. But that won't be the same for everyone, unless you know their motherboard, processor, fsb, and ram specs - upgrading RAM will improve the computer overall, not just Football Manager.

I've said this before.

Upgrading to 8gb RAM won't significantly increase the processing speed of the game.

O <<<< going around in circles.

I wasn't aware that typing in capitals can be adhered as insulting cuz honestly to me thats just unbelievable lol but rules are rules so I will adhere to them and please feel free to say whatevers on your chest I most certainly don't takes things to heart and especially over the net lol...moving on....maybe we can let our gaming knowledge on FM do the talking if the new network games are anything to go by .... care to take the challenge Mr Tyson? :p

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I think this thread may aswell get closed. Its just a pointless argument between people on computer performance, when it should be about FM going 64-bit.

I am with Eugene here, god knows how he's stayed so patient. Eugene is talking in the sense of FM, and the best thing for FM to run quickly is the processor. RAM help gives this impression, but RAM is only making the whole computer as a whole deal with running windows better(which obviously includes FM), but its not improving FM solely. I would also advise the same as Eugene when looking for a new desktop/laptop, in your initial purchase you should be looking at spending your money on the best processor, not RAM, since you can eventually upgrade the RAM very easily! And just like steamisannoying says, you can get RAM for like £30 seperately! Compared to an extra £100 when choosing a desktop/laptop with extra RAM from a store pre-build. Like I said earlier RAM is dead easy to install that anyone can do it, whereas the processor is a much more complicated process in a desktop, and near on impossible in a laptop for cooling reasons. (unless you built the laptop yourself and know it inside out? - very unlikely)

Definately going round in circles.

But in terms of FM going 64-bit, I'm no expert, I actually don't know the benefits really. I would assume that if it went 64-bit that more data could get processed quicker? Meaning better performance for those on 64-bit machines and FM being in 64-bit? Maybe less waiting time between matches? I would like to see it happen because obviously it would add an improvement nevertheless (whether I'm right or wrong) and any improvements to the game I welcome!

So if the thread were to stay alive... Anybody able to explain how FM would benefit? Would it allow those with older machines (those that atleast have a 64-bit OS) to be able to squeeze a little more life out of their machine? So they can possibly delay upgrading the desktop/laptop by a year or 2?

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I'm not great at this kind of thing but would it not be possible to have two seperate clients, one 32bit, the other 64bit which can download depending on your computer spec and/or preference. It's a pretty unwieldy way of doing things but might be a decent way to keep everyone happy until a more significant section of the player base is able to use the 64bit client.

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But in terms of FM going 64-bit, I'm no expert, I actually don't know the benefits really. I would assume that if it went 64-bit that more data could get processed quicker? Meaning better performance for those on 64-bit machines and FM being in 64-bit? Maybe less waiting time between matches? I would like to see it happen because obviously it would add an improvement nevertheless (whether I'm right or wrong) and any improvements to the game I welcome!

x64 is more than just a word size increase to 64-bits: It includes more registers (basically quicker than RAM, and even quicker than L1 cache) which mean that performance generally improves when moving to 64-bit. You usually only see performance slow if your system is poorly-written or you don't perform lots of mathematical operations (because you are shovelling twice the amount of data for pointers around for no performance benefit).

So if the thread were to stay alive... Anybody able to explain how FM would benefit? Would it allow those with older machines (those that atleast have a 64-bit OS) to be able to squeeze a little more life out of their machine? So they can possibly delay upgrading the desktop/laptop by a year or 2?

Benefits: 2 GB RAM limit can be broken, leading to larger databases in memory, likely increased performance due to the fact FM is mathematical in nature

Will it allow 32-bit applications to run it: No, but SI can bundle both executables (and libraries) on the same DVD, so if you are stuck on a 32-bit processor, the installer will choose the 32-bit one, else the 64-bit one. InstallShield can definitely do this, by the way.

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FM on a 64 bit platform would be masses quicker in theory.

But, as it's not, the best performance you can really expect is if you have an i7 processor, 2nd or 3rd gen, an SDD, 8gb RAM, min 1gb graphics card. You'd need a decent power unit (min 750w) and a decent cooler (i use corsair H7).

That's about it imo.

All of the above can be fetched for around 1k, give or take and then just a few hours to build.

Avoid high street shops at all costs.

They might seem tempting but the cut all sorts of corners and generally their motherboards, RAM, drives and so on are not up to standard and they will charge you premium for it too.

I learned the hard way with Dell...year after year I bought Dell machines and then one day just thought, 'enough is enough' and spent my saved up dosh building my own.

The machine I have built from Dell would have been nearer £3k in total and I wouldn't have got anything like the brand names I use in mine.

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FM on a 64 bit platform would be masses quicker in theory.

But, as it's not, the best performance you can really expect is if you have an i7 processor, 2nd or 3rd gen, an SDD, 8gb RAM, min 1gb graphics card. You'd need a decent power unit (min 750w) and a decent cooler (i use corsair H7).

That's about it imo.

All of the above can be fetched for around 1k, give or take and then just a few hours to build.

Avoid high street shops at all costs.

They might seem tempting but the cut all sorts of corners and generally their motherboards, RAM, drives and so on are not up to standard and they will charge you premium for it too.

I learned the hard way with Dell...year after year I bought Dell machines and then one day just thought, 'enough is enough' and spent my saved up dosh building my own.

The machine I have built from Dell would have been nearer £3k in total and I wouldn't have got anything like the brand names I use in mine.

I agree shame I wasn't technically minded in the hardware dept and installations..my main worry is if I was to try and build one from scratch that the parts would conflict and I'l end up spending money and end up messing it up..I did hear it wasn't that hard to build one mind

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I agree shame I wasn't technically minded in the hardware dept and installations..my main worry is if I was to try and build one from scratch that the parts would conflict and I'l end up spending money and end up messing it up..I did hear it wasn't that hard to build one mind

You heard right. I am no expert by any stretch. But I got so fed up of paying over the odds.

I thought, "it can't be that hard" and it isn't. Pretty much everything youbuy to build a PC is 'plug and play'.

I saw the tower I wanted and went from there.

Picking a motherboard was easy because I knew I wanted the i7 2600k processor without fail.

That runs on 1155 boards, so finding one of them was easy and I just picked one in my budget, which was £150.

I then decided I wanted that I needed a decent cooler and power unit, so I chose Corsair. I then got a pretty good 2gb Nvidia graphics card and bought 16gb of RAM.

I then upgraded my hard drive and installed a Corsair 240gb SDD - this made a MASSIVE difference.

My machine flies and for FM it's just awesome. Even after 10 seasons it's still really quick.

I think I holiday'd 5 seasons with 10 leagues running and a massive database of 70k+ players, and it did it in only 1 1/2 hours or something. I can't recall exactly (might do this again) but I remember at the time scratching my head wondering what went wrong as I couldn't believe it'd rattled through 5 seasons so quickly.

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£1300 did save me hundreds for the products that I have in my PC and the performance I get.

Ask your friend to get windows to rate his PC, I bet it comes nowhere ner 7.9, the top rating. Mine is at 7.6 and when I replace the graphics card, it will be 7.9 for everything and I will have only spent £1500 in total.

On the high street, if you wanted a 7.9 rated PC, you'd be spending £2500 + easily.

£500 will get you something that runs ok but an i7 2600k processor alone is £230.

You can't buy one of them and run it on a really cheap board and have a really cheap power unit and so on, when building a PC, you need to think about being consistant.

Not being funny but 2 things in a PC that make a computer run fast and make them the **** as you put it.

1. processor (i have an i7 2600k currently £230 on ebuyer)

2. SSD - I have a Corsair 240gb SSD drive, currently £160 on ebuyer

That's nearly £500 on just those two items but for me, you simply have to have a SSD these days because they are so rapid when combined with an i7 and good RAM.

Just personal preference but there's a massive difference between a £500 machine and a £1300+ machine.

There is indeed but not everyone is rich :)

Just to show you that a cheap PC can run just fine:

€500 Machine, built in late '10

ASUS M4A88TD-M EVO USB3

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition 3.2GHz

GSKILL PC3-12800 RIPJAWS CL9 1600MHZ DC 4Gb

ASUS HD 5750 FORMULA 1024 MB GDDR5

SAMSUNG 500 GB 16 MB SATA II SPINPOINT F3

a0h189.png

Runs Battlefield 3 smoothly on medium with gpu not reaching over 57º w/ stock cooling and stock freqs.

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Thats a decent set up for the £'s....

(P.S - I'm not rich, I saved up for a long while to get what I wanted)

(P.S.S - I'm saving again now!!!)

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You heard right. I am no expert by any stretch. But I got so fed up of paying over the odds.

I thought, "it can't be that hard" and it isn't. Pretty much everything youbuy to build a PC is 'plug and play'.

I saw the tower I wanted and went from there.

Picking a motherboard was easy because I knew I wanted the i7 2600k processor without fail.

That runs on 1155 boards, so finding one of them was easy and I just picked one in my budget, which was £150.

I then decided I wanted that I needed a decent cooler and power unit, so I chose Corsair. I then got a pretty good 2gb Nvidia graphics card and bought 16gb of RAM.

I then upgraded my hard drive and installed a Corsair 240gb SDD - this made a MASSIVE difference.

My machine flies and for FM it's just awesome. Even after 10 seasons it's still really quick.

I think I holiday'd 5 seasons with 10 leagues running and a massive database of 70k+ players, and it did it in only 1 1/2 hours or something. I can't recall exactly (might do this again) but I remember at the time scratching my head wondering what went wrong as I couldn't believe it'd rattled through 5 seasons so quickly.

So you would recommend giving it a go then? my m8 told me the most difficult part of it was to purchase a tower that actually fitted the parts..motherboard/graphics card/ etc etc to fit

I'm quite nterested in building my own like as you said...saves hundreds

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There is indeed but not everyone is rich :)

Just to show you that a cheap PC can run just fine:

€500 Machine, built in late '10

ASUS M4A88TD-M EVO USB3

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition 3.2GHz

GSKILL PC3-12800 RIPJAWS CL9 1600MHZ DC 4Gb

ASUS HD 5750 FORMULA 1024 MB GDDR5

SAMSUNG 500 GB 16 MB SATA II SPINPOINT F3

a0h189.png

Runs Battlefield 3 smoothly on medium with gpu not reaching over 57º w/ stock cooling and stock freqs.

Thats really good judging by how nuch it cost...fair play!

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So you would recommend giving it a go then? my m8 told me the most difficult part of it was to purchase a tower that actually fitted the parts..motherboard/graphics card/ etc etc to fit

I'm quite nterested in building my own like as you said...saves hundreds

100% do it.

It's not that hard, some great videos on youtube to help you too.

http://www.ebuyer.com/343262-cit-vantage-gaming-case-black-hd-audio-black-interior-4-fans-card-cscitvan - this is a link to what I think is a nice tower and similar to the one I bought.

This is how I started, picked the tower I wanted and went from there really.

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100% do it.

It's not that hard, some great videos on youtube to help you too.

http://www.ebuyer.com/343262-cit-vantage-gaming-case-black-hd-audio-black-interior-4-fans-card-cscitvan - this is a link to what I think is a nice tower and similar to the one I bought.

This is how I started, picked the tower I wanted and went from there really.

Nice one tim!! you've persuaded me gonna give it a bash! hopefully will get it made by the time FM13 is out! wish me luck! haha

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HAF 932 will fit everything in.

My HAF without any form of dust filter is the most maintenance-intensive case I've seen in my life :p

(And yes, I'm too lazy to buy cheap stockings in the ladies section of some random nearby shop, to cannibalise into dust filters)

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It does in actually applications ..i.e FM and running one application no matter what the bus speed is ..lets explain lol...a dual core running on a 3.2 GHZ 8 RAM would **** all over any i3/i5 and no Tyson all i7's run on a completely different processor ..i.e uses all cores unlike the i5's and i3's and the i7's are easily overclocked too.

A traditional Core 2 Duo even when overclocked heavily to 4 Ghz is no match for any desktop Core i5 out there, particularly if you set up your game world to full match details. No matter how many sticks of RAM you will put into it, unsurprisingly, oldish processors won't ever fly in FM. It's kind of slightly like the lower end video cards that ship with 2 GB of video RAM - a marketing gimmick meant to wow customers who don't know better. Those cards are powered by processors and memory bandwith that will cause everything to slow to a crawl long before the additional RAM is of any real use - namely when the levels of detail, the size of video data and visual prowess require it to be utilized and the actual processing prowess of the card just doesn't cope anymore to provide fluid visuals. And as outlined before, FM doesn't utilize that many RAM anyway. RAM doesn not speed up the actual processing time of the matches, AI teams/managers and their decisions and everything else. A good CPU is where it's at, provided everything else is halfway up to scratch. Obviously it will cost some good chunks of waiting time pairing an i5 with nonsensical 1 GB of memory. But you will barely find any system with less than 4 GB of RAM these days anyway.

You'd need a decent power unit (min 750w)

Total overkill for just about any setup employing but a single video card, two hdds, an optical drive and a processor as energy efficient as an Intel Core i X, and not outlining what is really important in terms of PSUs. Similarily to the low end video card scenario above, many cheapo manufacturers in particular advertise the high wattage numbers of their PSUs and "bank" on people's lack of knowledge, which they cannot be blamed for. This wattage is then often only delievered on peak, not at all continously, and tells you nothing about the quality of the individual rails or the PSUs efficiency. I reckon a good quality 500W PSU is all most people will ever need in a setup like this, in particular if it's not an energy hungry and expensive high end video card built into the system. Also I have a hard time imagining FM's 3D visuals needing 1GB of video RAM. Before building my new system, I played FM 2011 with but 256 megs, not a problem. But obviously pretty much all video cards ship with 1GB of RAM anyway these days, so that's kind of moot. :)

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Its not that I dont believe you but more of a case of been there done that, I upgraded my CPU from 4 to 8 gig of RAM and trust me it makes alot of difference..on 4 I got alot of ..this game is not reponding on load up amongst other issues whilst playing the game its crazy to say that a 8ram wouldnt have any effect whatsoever to a 4ram!!

i think thats a specific problem related just to your pc, and maybe a very few others perhaps. i run fm'12 on a 4gb ram win xp machine with many leagues and never once had that error message, or any other. basically if your pc was working properly in the beginning adding the 4gb extra ram you got wouldnt have improved anything. you probably just had faulty ram or something and could have used a program to test them out and if faulty got a better pair of 4gm ram modules.

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Nice one tim!! you've persuaded me gonna give it a bash! hopefully will get it made by the time FM13 is out! wish me luck! haha

No worries. I'm jealous! I'm saving again because I want to upgrade bits on my machine but I think as always, I'll end up getting a bit carried away!

All the best!

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No worries. I'm jealous! I'm saving again because I want to upgrade bits on my machine but I think as always, I'll end up getting a bit carried away!

All the best!

Nice one!..just ordered that case from e-buyer..Il wait for that to arrive first reason being cuz it be just sitting there like a constant reminder lol..then the real work begins..quite excited about it tbh

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i think thats a specific problem related just to your pc, and maybe a very few others perhaps. i run fm'12 on a 4gb ram win xp machine with many leagues and never once had that error message, or any other. basically if your pc was working properly in the beginning adding the 4gb extra ram you got wouldnt have improved anything. you probably just had faulty ram or something and could have used a program to test them out and if faulty got a better pair of 4gm ram modules.

There was nowt wrong with the original RAM my mate ran a diagnostic tool and I sold the originals on ebay

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Nice one!..just ordered that case from e-buyer..Il wait for that to arrive first reason being cuz it be just sitting there like a constant reminder lol..then the real work begins..quite excited about it tbh

It's extremely exciting mate. When you start buying the bits you want, which isn't actually that many really, maybe 10 different parts or so, then you realise you're actually creating a machine! It's wicked!

Almost everything is plug and play, so once you've got your tower and motherboard screwed in, the rest is just wires and clipping things in place, like RAM.

This machine I'm on was the first I've built and it took me about 4-5 hours I think. I took my time, didn't rush and had to go over a few things twice to be confident I'd done things right. Like the water cooler for eg...not that it was fiddly or anything, just wasn't sure it was on properly etc.

Once you fire it up though and the motherboard beeps into life, it's massively satisfying!

In summer 2013, I'll be doing the same again.

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i think thats a specific problem related just to your pc, and maybe a very few others perhaps. i run fm'12 on a 4gb ram win xp machine with many leagues and never once had that error message, or any other. basically if your pc was working properly in the beginning adding the 4gb extra ram you got wouldnt have improved anything. you probably just had faulty ram or something and could have used a program to test them out and if faulty got a better pair of 4gm ram modules.

This. Although I think it could even have been the incorrect RAM type and perhaps that was causing a bottleneck.

There was nowt wrong with the original RAM my mate ran a diagnostic tool and I sold the originals on ebay

Well if your mate ran a diagnostic tool (which I doubt) then I guess it was alright then... <jk>

Perhaps you could remove 4gb of RAM now and run the game with just 4gb RAM and see if you think there is a difference in speed?

I think perhaps you just got faster RAM that was more compatible with your system.

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Geekiest. Thread. Ever.

Don't you just love it. Sometimes I wish for more technical, diving into the guts, threads like these. Beats the whole AI is cheating/FM is lazy/AI is stupid/AI is stupid so they cheat threads

Edit: Sorry, for being glib

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There was nowt wrong with the original RAM my mate ran a diagnostic tool and I sold the originals on ebay

there's no reason why fm'12 couldnt have worked properly and well on a machine with 4gb ram. well there is one reason and that there was something wrong with your ram/pc incompatibility. therefore you getting new ram fixed the problem. its logical isnt it? its nothing to do with you getting 8gb of ram instead of 4gb because fm'12 works perfectly well on 99% of pc's with 4gb ram meaning a specific problem related just to your pc :cool:

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It's extremely exciting mate. When you start buying the bits you want, which isn't actually that many really, maybe 10 different parts or so, then you realise you're actually creating a machine! It's wicked!

Almost everything is plug and play, so once you've got your tower and motherboard screwed in, the rest is just wires and clipping things in place, like RAM.

This machine I'm on was the first I've built and it took me about 4-5 hours I think. I took my time, didn't rush and had to go over a few things twice to be confident I'd done things right. Like the water cooler for eg...not that it was fiddly or anything, just wasn't sure it was on properly etc.

Once you fire it up though and the motherboard beeps into life, it's massively satisfying!

In summer 2013, I'll be doing the same again.

Indeed mate..theres a pretty nifty privately owned computer shop near to where I live and the geezer that owns it can get parts just as cheap as those sold on E-buyer etc etc so as soon as the case arrives I'm gonna give him the exact spec of each part I want and he said he'd sort me out..he even said he'd build it for me for £35 but I think Im gonna give it a go and if it goes tits up..Ive got a back up plan haha..out of interst...do you build PC's for a living?

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This. Although I think it could even have been the incorrect RAM type and perhaps that was causing a bottleneck.

Well if your mate ran a diagnostic tool (which I doubt) then I guess it was alright then... <jk>

Perhaps you could remove 4gb of RAM now and run the game with just 4gb RAM and see if you think there is a difference in speed?

I think perhaps you just got faster RAM that was more compatible with your system.

Don't really wanna be messing with this system as I'm selling it and building my own..and yes..with 16 gig of RAM :p lol

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Indeed mate..theres a pretty nifty privately owned computer shop near to where I live and the geezer that owns it can get parts just as cheap as those sold on E-buyer etc etc so as soon as the case arrives I'm gonna give him the exact spec of each part I want and he said he'd sort me out..he even said he'd build it for me for £35 but I think Im gonna give it a go and if it goes tits up..Ive got a back up plan haha..out of interst...do you build PC's for a living?

Nope, I don't build PC's for a living at all.

I've built one, that's it! And unbelievably, it's still running!

Honestly, don't pay anyone else to do it, it's nowhere near as hard or as daunting as you think it is.

First part you've done, get a tower.

The decide on the processor you want because that will effect other decisions, most importantly, the motherboard.

I prefer the Intel processors, so say you chose to go for the quicker models, like the i7, they work on 1155 boards - and there are loads of them, Asus are good and easy to install...just a matter of lining it up and screwing it in.

Getting a decent cooler is important, I went for water cooling and chose the Corsair H70.

The H70 is awesome and comes with everything you need, eg, paste between the processor and pad, I didn't even know about, but the H70 has it on there already and it's massively important to have this paste between your processor and cooler, or it'll overheat.

For the power unit, I went for the Corsair 750w because it had so many positive reviews, but a 500w would suffice.

Make sure you get a SDD (solid state drive) because these things are just unreal and make everything seem fifty times quicker.

Any motherboard that supports 1155 processors will support SSD as far as I can tell.

I initally bought a fairly standard 1gb graphics card for about £90 I think, it did a great job, just slotted in and had it's own fan to keep it cool and I've played all sorts of graphic hungry games on mine without any overheating issues at all.

I think prices have come down a fair bit for RAM and most other bits too, so I would reckon my set up could be bought brand new each part now for under 1k.

Good luck with it! Let me know what you get and how you get on!

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Nope, I don't build PC's for a living at all.

I've built one, that's it! And unbelievably, it's still running!

Honestly, don't pay anyone else to do it, it's nowhere near as hard or as daunting as you think it is.

First part you've done, get a tower.

The decide on the processor you want because that will effect other decisions, most importantly, the motherboard.

I prefer the Intel processors, so say you chose to go for the quicker models, like the i7, they work on 1155 boards - and there are loads of them, Asus are good and easy to install...just a matter of lining it up and screwing it in.

Getting a decent cooler is important, I went for water cooling and chose the Corsair H70.

The H70 is awesome and comes with everything you need, eg, paste between the processor and pad, I didn't even know about, but the H70 has it on there already and it's massively important to have this paste between your processor and cooler, or it'll overheat.

For the power unit, I went for the Corsair 750w because it had so many positive reviews, but a 500w would suffice.

Make sure you get a SDD (solid state drive) because these things are just unreal and make everything seem fifty times quicker.

Any motherboard that supports 1155 processors will support SSD as far as I can tell.

I initally bought a fairly standard 1gb graphics card for about £90 I think, it did a great job, just slotted in and had it's own fan to keep it cool and I've played all sorts of graphic hungry games on mine without any overheating issues at all.

I think prices have come down a fair bit for RAM and most other bits too, so I would reckon my set up could be bought brand new each part now for under 1k.

Good luck with it! Let me know what you get and how you get on!

Thanx ever such alot for your advice mate..I am going for the i7 more than likely the one you suggested as I too prefer the intel's was intially a bit confussed on the motherboard side so thanx for that was quoted around £375 for motherboard and intel chip which seems a bit of the cheap side so I'l defintely double check that but he does get the parts at a discounted price

750w power unit £65....

Corsair H70 for £70

and 16 gig of RAM for around the £75/80 mark but its the top end RAM and I may as well not skimp on the RAM

The SSD he's gonna let me know and I've already got a 1gig GC which will do for now...and Im just going for the bog standard DVD player and sound card

Again thank you for the advice muchly appreciated

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Thanx ever such alot for your advice mate..I am going for the i7 more than likely the one you suggested as I too prefer the intel's was intially a bit confussed on the motherboard side so thanx for that was quoted around £375 for motherboard and intel chip which seems a bit of the cheap side so I'l defintely double check that but he does get the parts at a discounted price

750w power unit £65....

Corsair H70 for £70

and 16 gig of RAM for around the £75/80 mark but its the top end RAM and I may as well not skimp on the RAM

The SSD he's gonna let me know and I've already got a 1gig GC which will do for now...and Im just going for the bog standard DVD player and sound card

Again thank you for the advice muchly appreciated

No worries at all mate.

£375 sounds like a good deal to me.

If you have the money though, £65 (on ebuyer) will get you a 120gb OCZ SDD, just run windows (and FM) from that and install your old hard drive too as that'll no doubt be 500gb or 1tb I'd imagine? I have 2 older 1tg hard drives installed from my old machines and a 240gb Corsair SSD but I run pretty much only windows, FM and some other games off the SSD.

Basically, all my photos and mp3's etc are on my old drives, freeing space for my SSD.

I'd go for this i7 -> http://www.ebuyer.com/349026-intel-core-i7-3770k-3-5ghz-socket-1155-8mb-cache-retail-boxed-processor-bx80637i73770k

And http://www.ebuyer.com/392401-asus-maximus-v-formula-maximus-v-formula

That comes to £490 for the newer 3rd gen i7 processor which has only been out a couple of months I think and the motherboard is awesome and fully supports 3rd gen i7's.

Not too much more than the £375 you were thinking and you've already got a graphics card, so saving there?

That processor btw, is the newest i7 and is only £30 more than the older 2600k i7 that I have - no brainer really, if you're getting an i7, spend the £30 more and get the newer, faster and better one!

If there was say £100 diff between them, I'd say just get the older one but only £30 diff? Has to be the newer one!

Haha, check me out getting all salesman like!

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Can anyone tell me what, exactly, is the point in buying an i7 over an i5? Serious question.

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No worries at all mate.

£375 sounds like a good deal to me.

If you have the money though, £65 (on ebuyer) will get you a 120gb OCZ SDD, just run windows (and FM) from that and install your old hard drive too as that'll no doubt be 500gb or 1tb I'd imagine? I have 2 older 1tg hard drives installed from my old machines and a 240gb Corsair SSD but I run pretty much only windows, FM and some other games off the SSD.

Basically, all my photos and mp3's etc are on my old drives, freeing space for my SSD.

I'd go for this i7 -> http://www.ebuyer.com/349026-intel-core-i7-3770k-3-5ghz-socket-1155-8mb-cache-retail-boxed-processor-bx80637i73770k

And http://www.ebuyer.com/392401-asus-maximus-v-formula-maximus-v-formula

That comes to £490 for the newer 3rd gen i7 processor which has only been out a couple of months I think and the motherboard is awesome and fully supports 3rd gen i7's.

Not too much more than the £375 you were thinking and you've already got a graphics card, so saving there?

That processor btw, is the newest i7 and is only £30 more than the older 2600k i7 that I have - no brainer really, if you're getting an i7, spend the £30 more and get the newer, faster and better one!

If there was say £100 diff between them, I'd say just get the older one but only £30 diff? Has to be the newer one!

Haha, check me out getting all salesman like!

Nice one mate haha defintely will go for that £30 extra option like you said its a no brainer! again cant thank you enough for the advice..will see what he price he can do for me....the specs just keep going up lol

I have a spare 500gb HD and believe you me its more than enough don't even fill an 1/8th of it.... the main programme being FM

Will let you know when I get the components and when I attempt my new build and once again thanx :thup:

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Can anyone tell me what, exactly, is the point in buying an i7 over an i5? Serious question.

Simple..its a better processor..but I wouldnt buy a ready made i7!...wayyy over-priced

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Better processor for what?

Overall computer performance..but you've got some pretty decent i5 chips too like the 2nd generation 2500k i3..the one Im getting is the 3rd generation i7 which is the lastest i7

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Okay, so much, imo, wrong information in here.

An i7 is no quicker at gaming than some i5's. i7's are brilliant at serious hyperthreading work, ie video editing, photoshop applications etc. An i5 3570k will not only be as good for general/gaming applications but better in the large majority of cases. There is no game on the market that uses 8 threads. Jesus, most games don't use 2 threads regularly for god's sake. Buying an i7 3770k is, for most people, just stupid and frankly a waste of an extra £80.

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Okay, so much, imo, wrong information in here.

An i7 is no quicker at gaming than some i5's. i7's are brilliant at serious hyperthreading work, ie video editing, photoshop applications etc. An i5 3570k will not only be as good for general/gaming applications but better in the large majority of cases. There is no game on the market that uses 8 threads. Jesus, most games don't use 2 threads regularly for god's sake. Buying an i7 3770k is, for most people, just stupid and frankly a waste of an extra £80.

Im not buying an i7..Im building one lol

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Can anyone tell me what, exactly, is the point in buying an i7 over an i5? Serious question.
Okay, so much, imo, wrong information in here.

An i7 is no quicker at gaming than some i5's. i7's are brilliant at serious hyperthreading work, ie video editing, photoshop applications etc. An i5 3570k will not only be as good for general/gaming applications but better in the large majority of cases. There is no game on the market that uses 8 threads. Jesus, most games don't use 2 threads regularly for god's sake. Buying an i7 3770k is, for most people, just stupid and frankly a waste of an extra £80.

What a troll, asks a question to answer it himself :D

Also, a moderator passing by should really split most posts here off into a "what computer to buy for FM13?" thread. And merge anything similar-looking into it.

P.S.: Yes, the only difference between a 3570k (i5) and a 3770k (i7) is that the latter costs a lot more, may be faster in serious multithreading scenarios, and may be a tad slower in regular operation & a tad less overclockable. That said, Ivy Bridge overclocking isn't a good idea for anybody not swimming in money, as beheading* the chip is a rather risky operation, and it's quite pointless otherwise.

*removing the thermal interface material on it and either applying vastly better TIM or running without it

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