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davidbowie

SI/Sega Greed on Australians.

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Just buy a key from a UK/US store, sales in Australia plummet and greedy distributors take a loss. It's not right, but at least you have that option. There is no shipping and you get the key at release.

Since this game can be played only with Steam anyway, in a perfect world there would be no physical copies, publishers and distributors who only drive the prices up. SI could put it on the store themselves and take it all :)

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Miles, if you see this, I will send you 20 packets of Tim Tams (of your selection) in exchange for FM13. Deal?

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That's typical the level of reply you get there, yes :D

2-3 tries later somebody might actually read it, though. So just keep on repeating that.

got another reply:

"We appreciate your feedback regarding the pricing in Steam.

Prices in the Steam Store are set on a region by region basis. The price and currency displayed are the set prices for those games based on your location.

We are always working with publishers to adjust prices to be in line with what can be found at local retailers and online shops.

If you have any further questions, please let us know - we will be happy to assist you."

Not sure where to go from here

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There's no-where to go. Sega don't care. SI don't care. Steam don't care because they can't care. This random non-existent distributor probably doesn't care.

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I'm fairly disgusted in this myself. It was beyond frustrating having to spend $70-$100 on CM 10 years ago, but we suffered it because our exchange rate was pretty crap. Now we've worked our way up and the prices are still the same. My friend pointed out the steam price and I couldnt believe it. Him and a few others planned on not buying it this year after that, but I saw mention the GreenManGaming price and pointed it out to them and now they, and myself, are buying this years version. However if Sega start making all the online sites sell for the same high price as of next revision, which I have a feeling they will, you can forget any support from a bunch of us who have been buying the series faithfully. I also dont get why the US should get a discount price while the rest of us get slapped in the face. I recall SI having more teeth in the past regarding publishers. Now its our turn to feel unappreciated.

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There's no-where to go. Sega don't care. SI don't care. Steam don't care because they can't care. This random non-existent distributor probably doesn't care.

The place to go is to not buy it through Steam and use a retailer selling it cheaper.

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I do hope GMG (and any other digital retailers selling to Australians at those low prices) record back to SEGA how many they're selling to Australia, and not just lump it in with their general US/European sales. Because that's the only way SEGA - and their Australian retailers, along with Steam - will realise just how much they're losing by pricing it the way they do.

Conversely the last thing we want is for them to say 'OK, Australians aren't buying the game, so we're going to ignore the market.'

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I do hope GMG (and any other digital retailers selling to Australians at those low prices) record back to SEGA how many they're selling to Australia, and not just lump it in with their general US/European sales. Because that's the only way SEGA - and their Australian retailers, along with Steam - will realise just how much they're losing by pricing it the way they do.

Conversely the last thing we want is for them to say 'OK, Australians aren't buying the game, so we're going to ignore the market.'

Personally it would seem to me that the best way to get this changed would indeed be to get all Aussie FM players that you can to spread the word and simply not use Steam. Go around the regional pricing and either get it gifted to you by friends, use other retailers who're pricing it much cheaper etc.

Do that, and Sega start to lose business, they will look at the market and try to fix that. They will never abandon Aus entirely, too much money to lose, and doing so would never work as you could still get it from European clients or again, the gift system. If enough pressure was put on Sega, you may not see a drop to the price that we all have to pay, but you may see a significant amount of it go down. A company does not like losing money through their own over-valuing of its stock, if they can make more with the margins by lowering it slightly then they will.

That would take quite a collective effort though, and it would depend entirely on how many Aussie FM players you could make aware of such a plan. Someone could make a huge effort to get the word out and only reach 10%, meaning a huge effort for nothing. Something to think about though, if people really are that bothered by it.

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Miles I'm quite disappointed in your responses. I appreciate your email I really do and I understand the relationship between SI Games and Sega, however your "it's not my fight" response is a huge let down. A contemporary business who does not have a tacit relationship of being a champion for their customers is one that gets left behind in whatever industry they're in, especially in these days of net promoter scores and the like.

You have War Child International banners featured in the game and on the site. Now please don't take this as me comparing our relevantly petty first-world problem with the plight of child soldiers but the "there's nothing we can do / it's just the way it is" attitude is what breeds apathy and hinders problems from being solved. This is the attitude you seem to be taking at this moment. More importantly it IS your fight. It is affecting your customers. Surely you can't not see that?

On a side note this is what vexes me about Aussie retailers whining that it's the wholesalers/distributors fault for having high wholesale prices. If they truly cared they would take the time and thought to actually get together as an industry and lobby for fairer pricing. But they don't care because they know we'll take it because "it's just the way it is/has been/always will be".

Back on track, the exchange rate may have been 3:1 a few years ago, but we were paying $90 AUD for games back then too. Conditions have changed yet game pricing has not changed. The digital distribution boom should mean things change but they haven't. Many companies have got on board and have reduced the digital price of some AAA new release titles and after last year's fair price it's very disheartening that it's been jacked back up. It seems Sega are no longer the good guys they were after 2012's price and SI don't really care.

I love this game series and have bought every game since CM 03/04 when I could have skipped a game here and there, from loyalty to the brand and the fact that this was not some big conglomerate like EA Sports so they deserved every penny. Now I'm not so sure about that and now I am at this stage not buying the game. Taking ownership of a problem (not the same as taking the blame) goes a long way to creating advocates for your brand.

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Personally it would seem to me that the best way to get this changed would indeed be to get all Aussie FM players that you can to spread the word and simply not use Steam. Go around the regional pricing and either get it gifted to you by friends, use other retailers who're pricing it much cheaper etc.

Do that, and Sega start to lose business, they will look at the market and try to fix that. They will never abandon Aus entirely, too much money to lose, and doing so would never work as you could still get it from European clients or again, the gift system. If enough pressure was put on Sega, you may not see a drop to the price that we all have to pay, but you may see a significant amount of it go down. A company does not like losing money through their own over-valuing of its stock, if they can make more with the margins by lowering it slightly then they will.

That would take quite a collective effort though, and it would depend entirely on how many Aussie FM players you could make aware of such a plan. Someone could make a huge effort to get the word out and only reach 10%, meaning a huge effort for nothing. Something to think about though, if people really are that bothered by it.

Make a Steam group perhaps?

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I am doing my best out here in .NZ to get the word out about avoiding Steam and anyone else charging the ridiculous $105-110 here. It was acceptable when we had a crap dollar, but no longer.

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I think that the majority on here know that SEGA are not responsible for steams price gouging. SEGA have it on their website for $40 bucks. i was happy to pay this.

Miles i don't know if you meant it the way it has been taken but your "not my problem" line should have been left out. Most people were not upset at SI at all, just concerned that we are being taken for a ride by steam with its massive price hike in one year.

I mean seriously miles how would you like it if the main platform for fm 2013 which we all need to run the game doubled the price of fm 2013 in England for no good reason? Would that be a problem?

I know we can all take out business elsewhere and i hope every Australian does so.

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The "majority" on here surely know that SEGA are the distributor of this game, and besides SEGA themselves only some mysterious AU sub-distributor might influence the price. It's common for all major distributors to price games at $90 in AU nowadays, and SEGA figured they'd be wasting a lot of money by not following that trend.

SEGA have it on their *US* website for $40; SEGA do not have a AU web store. I don't know if they had one before they closed down SEGA AU.

http://us.download-store.sega.com/shop/football-manager-2013 $40

http://uk.download-store.sega.com/shop/football-manager-2013 £30

http://eu.download-store.sega.com/shop/football-manager-2013 50€

etc.

On GamersGate, just like on Steam, SEGA bothered to set a special high AU price.

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Just keep in mind ozgameshop ships from the UK so you would be waiting at most a couple weeks before you get the game. Perhaps you will get it as quick as 3-4 days?

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Make a Steam group perhaps?

That would be one way to do it. Other ways would be simple word of mouth, any threads on different forums (particularly Australian FC's forums) and such would certainly help.

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....You have War Child International banners featured in the game and on the site. Now please don't take this as me comparing our relevantly petty first-world problem with the plight of child soldiers but the "there's nothing we can do / it's just the way it is" attitude is what breeds apathy and hinders problems from being solved. This is the attitude you seem to be taking at this moment. More importantly it IS your fight. It is affecting your customers. Surely you can't not see that?....

Fair point. As you say SI's stance seems contradictory.

That said, without getting in to politics, warchild was set up out of the Bosnian war and that was a war where on the ground me and my buddies did more for child war victims than SI ever will but with the needing online activation (to fight piracy/increase profit) now SI stiffed any lad out there on the ground by telling them to get stuffed on wanting to play the game whilst on ops until they were R&R or EOT, maybe months later.

*******. :)

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Just saw the game on steam.

It's $90 US Dollars.

Price for US customers? $40.

A price hike of 55% just because we live in Australia.

It's the same game. Same megabytes. Same platform. Same game. Yet we get ripped off.

then I suggest you look for a better price online. $90 is still great value due to the amount of time you will be playing it. Now you tell me what else you can buy for $90 and get as much time with it like we do FM13 ?

If you are that worried, get a friend in the U.S to get it and mail it to you. Either that or take advantage of any promo codes on offer online for FM13. I just saw 1 in this forum with 35% off. So a $89.95 game would then cost you $58.47 :D

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to be frank, the response from miles and si is disgusting

to say 'its not our problem' when an entire nation is forced to pay 2 times the price of everyone else is absolutely pathetic

especially in light of the moaning from the same company about piracy.. then they have the nerve to tell us 'its different'.

what a load of rubbish

its different because SI lose on one side and win on the other. this kind of blatant price gouging is akin to piracy faced by customers and the response from the company we all associate with the game is 'too bad'

the old pass the buck trick, blaming everyone else but themselves, to relieve themselves of responsibility absolutely doesnt cut it with me. all in all it this has been a shameful display from the company who i have entirely respected until now

dude, it's the same with most things in Australia. Take it up with the government about price fixing ...

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We aren't buying the game in Australia.

We are buying the game from a US company who allow us to download from their servers.

Therefore, it's not an Australian pricing policy at all. It is merely Steam charing Australians more because they can. This is all honesty is unfair and to compare it with the price of tim tams in London is ridiculous and naieve. Tim Tams are a phyisical product that has to be shipped to the UK from Australia - this incurs extra costs. Just to add to this Penguins, Club and Mcvities all cost more in OZ because they have to be transported here. This makes sense. Charging more to download an item doesn't make sense unless you simply want to milk money from customers.

Miles' reaction and comments are some of the worst ever customer service I have seen. This clearly demonstrates how much SI value its customers.

Good customer service is all about bringing customers back. And about sending them away happy - happy enough to pass positive feedback about your business along to others, who may then try the product or service you offer for themselves and in their turn become repeat customers.

Now, I have bought all FM's from CM1 to FM12 and I will continue to purchase the game not because of SI's customer service - which is on the whole poor and Miles' own words have futher diminished it in my opinion - I buy the game because in all honesty it still is the best football management simulation by far.

SI I am sure you know we will buy the game because it's brilliant. This doesn't mean you should take your customers for granted. A Little good old fashioned customer service and empathy now and again would certainly do you no harm at all.

Also just because soemthing is happening in another country doesn't mean it isn't your concern.

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We aren't buying the game in Australia.

We are buying the game from a US company who allow us to download from their servers.

Therefore, it's not an Australian pricing policy at all. It is merely Steam charing Australians more because they can. This is all honesty is unfair and to compare it with the price of tim tams in London is ridiculous and naieve. Tim Tams are a phyisical product that has to be shipped to the UK from Australia - this incurs extra costs. Just to add to this Penguins, Club and Mcvities all cost more in OZ because they have to be transported here. This makes sense. Charging more to download an item doesn't make sense unless you simply want to milk money from customers.

Miles' reaction and comments are some of the worst ever customer service I have seen. This clearly demonstrates how much SI value its customers.

Good customer service is all about bringing customers back. And about sending them away happy - happy enough to pass positive feedback about your business along to others, who may then try the product or service you offer for themselves and in their turn become repeat customers.

Now, I have bought all FM's from CM1 to FM12 and I will continue to purchase the game not because of SI's customer service - which is on the whole poor and Miles' own words have futher diminished it in my opinion - I buy the game because in all honesty it still is the best football management simulation by far.

SI I am sure you know we will buy the game because it's brilliant. This doesn't mean you should take your customers for granted. A Little good old fashioned customer service and empathy now and again would certainly do you no harm at all.

Also just because soemthing is happening in another country doesn't mean it isn't your concern.

Dude, have you not read anything Miles has said? I don't think you have. He has clearly stated it is not up to them how much Steam charges for the game. It is up to the retailer of sorts to determine the price they decide to sell it for. Just like EB Games in Australia. Why not abuse them for selling it at upwards of $100 ??

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I still cannot help but wonder if steam doubled the price of FM 2013 in the UK if SI and miles would think it is a problem or not?

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I still cannot help but wonder if steam doubled the price of FM 2013 in the UK if SI and miles would think it is a problem or not?

I've been wondering the same thing but unless it happens we won't see the response

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I still cannot help but wonder if steam doubled the price of FM 2013 in the UK if SI and miles would think it is a problem or not?

It probably wouldn't be, numerous other places to get it from. Many people don't get it from Steam, its actually one of the more expensive places to purchase the game.

Now if every single retailer doubled the prices, different story.

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then I suggest you look for a better price online. $90 is still great value due to the amount of time you will be playing it. Now you tell me what else you can buy for $90 and get as much time with it like we do FM13 ?

If you are that worried, get a friend in the U.S to get it and mail it to you. Either that or take advantage of any promo codes on offer online for FM13. I just saw 1 in this forum with 35% off. So a $89.95 game would then cost you $58.47 :D

Your point lacks context. In a vacuum $90 for FM13 is worth it if that's the full price we pay for every other game. However we don't operate in a vacuum economy. Why do Americans and Europeans get the same product for roughly half the price? Australians will have to play it twice as much and have twice as much fun to get the same bang for your buck.

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Dude, have you not read anything Miles has said? I don't think you have. He has clearly stated it is not up to them how much Steam charges for the game. It is up to the retailer of sorts to determine the price they decide to sell it for. Just like EB Games in Australia. Why not abuse them for selling it at upwards of $100 ??

Steam does not set the prices whatsoever. The distributor tells Steam what price to set, which is Sega or 5 Star Games. Steam has a region pricing structure so Sega/5 star games have the option to tell steam how much to charge for what region. Steam is operated by a company called Valve, who also make some games. Valve distribute their own product and their pricing of new AAA games are close to the gold standard for region equality.

Greenman Gaming does not have region pricing as far as I can tell. One region one price.

Just on Steam and digital distribution here's a grab from a very interesting inteview with the boss of the company that makes Torchlight 2, it makes an interesting comparison to SI/Sega and FM13.

http://au.pc.gamespy.com/pc/torchlight-ii/1226083p1.html

GameSpy: You're kind of buddies! I think particularly with Steam Workshop, Torchlight's going to just go nuts. I think it's pretty much this and Skyrim that are the two main attractions there. It's virtually perpetual entertainment.

MS: Yeah. We're very, very much, probably more than anyone, a Steam-based company at this point. I would guess that it would probably do over 75% of its business in total on Steam. Most of the rest will be on our site. The other digital distributors almost do no business, it seems. Steam has just taken over. But they just do it better than everyone. They're easier to work with, they've got Steam Workshop, and cloud saves for your characters, and all that stuff just works, and they're easy to deal with, so we're happy.

Steam makes this possible. Steam is why we're able to make a $20 game. Back when we were starting Blizzard North, we would sell a $50 box. But when you sell a $50 box at Walmart, we would get about the same as we do from a $20 download at Steam. So we're not really getting less than we used to, it just makes it easier for more people to buy it.

GameSpy: It's interesting how quickly that change has happened.

MS: Yeah. Torchlight 1 we had all these deals with box people, and all the different digital distributors, and it's like, well, we should've just done this one. All those were a pain, because every time we made a patch we'd have to make a different patch for everyone, and it was a monster pain in the ass. So we were like yeah, this is good. We had no idea this was going to be the case, but Steam does all the business now.

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It probably wouldn't be, numerous other places to get it from. Many people don't get it from Steam, its actually one of the more expensive places to purchase the game.

Now if every single retailer doubled the prices, different story.

I'm pretty sure all Australian retailers are gouging us (or at least those advertising). EB Games is also $78. Big W, Target, Harvey Norman, JB Hifi don't have it on their websites.

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Dude, have you not read anything Miles has said? I don't think you have. He has clearly stated it is not up to them how much Steam charges for the game. It is up to the retailer of sorts to determine the price they decide to sell it for. Just like EB Games in Australia. Why not abuse them for selling it at upwards of $100 ??

Dude. As I clearly state we are not buying the game in Australia... so has nothing to do with Australian pricing policy. Steam is US and charging Australians more. EB games price has nothing to do with steam... example Green Man Gaming are selling the game for the same price no matter what country you purchase from and guess what client one downloads it from ? you guessed it Steam :) So one can buy the game via the STEAM client much cheaper than steam charge and doesn't matter one's nationality.

However, I have read Miles's comments and appreciate he has no control over the Steam pricing policy - but rhe main paoint I was making was Miles' comments were really awful and bad customer service and a demonstration of how SI view its customers.

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Dude. As I clearly state we are not buying the game in Australia... so has nothing to do with Australian pricing policy. Steam is US and charging Australians more. EB games price has nothing to do with steam... example Green Man Gaming are selling the game for the same price no matter what country you purchase from and guess what client one downloads it from ? you guessed it Steam :) So one can buy the game via the STEAM client much cheaper than steam charge and doesn't matter one's nationality.

However, I have read Miles's comments and appreciate he has no control over the Steam pricing policy - but rhe main paoint I was making was Miles' comments were really awful and bad customer service and a demonstration of how SI view its customers.

For the last time Steam does not set the prices. Steam has an OPTION to have region specific pricing. Sega/5 star games have set the price they want to sell the game for on steam. Greenman gaming does not have that option so they have no choice but to just set the one price. It is not the Steam's pricing policy, it is Sega/5 Star Gaming's pricing policy they are enforcing ON Steam.

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For the last time Steam does not set the prices. Steam has an OPTION to have region specific pricing. Sega/5 star games have set the price they want to sell the game for on steam. Greenman gaming does not have that option so they have no choice but to just set the one price. It is not the Steam's pricing policy, it is Sega/5 Star Gaming's pricing policy they are enforcing ON Steam.

He didn't say steam set or has control over the price. He just said steam charges more than other regions. And they do. Also I do not understand your argument. So you say Steam has the OPTION of having region specific pricing and Greenman gaming doesn't. Doesn't that go against your statement that steam doesn't set prices? Why doesn't steam remove this 'option' and set the same price per region code like Greenman gaming? In that sense isn't steam a party to the setting of nation based pricing? Just like Greenmangaming doesn't. It is also irrelevant whether GMG wants to or not, just that it is possible. In the age of online shopping countries like Australia can choose to buy physical copies of games for much much cheaper than retailers are charging. There are even shops that import than ship from within Australia, so you get them within a couple of days and obviously doesn't include any new releases within 1-2 weeks, that is still a lot cheaper than the big retailers charge. Considering that, it is ludicrous there isn't more price parity for digital distribution. Steam doesn't explicitly set those extraordinary prices but they aren't doing anything to stop it either. There are plenty of games on steam that have uniform pricing across US and Australia.

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Valve distribute their own product and their pricing of new AAA games are close to the gold standard for region equality.

Stopped reading at that point.

Greenman Gaming does not have region pricing as far as I can tell. One region one price.

Actually continued reading to here, but that's also wrong. They just don't have AU-specific prices.

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The reason Steam don't set the prices that low is that SEGA won't permit Steam to undercut the Australian RRP. It's that simple.

Steam don't set the prices.

It's Sega.

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you know, this topic gets posted every September ...

And??? Do you think that 90 dollars (roughly around that), is cheap?

If I lived in Australia (which i don't) I would post this thread every year in Septembe, because why would I have to pay more for game then other countries?

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The problem has to be with the distributors in Aussie and here in NZ (Believe it is the same company 99% of the time), but that still makes it unacceptable, and I agree with posting the thread every year, even if only to stop people purchasing it via means where they get ripped off. One of my friends used to buy a video game every month through stores in NZ at $80-$110, after I started to point out other places he could get them, he is now purchasing the same games from overseas suppliers (Or the occasional NZ Supplier who sources from overseas) for half that, and less.

I keep trying to spread the word, doesn't seem to get very far as stores here still make money, but surely just doing a little bit helps. And maybe eventually someone will take notice and do something about it.

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If there is injustice every year then it should be raised every year. In everyday life if you see injustice you raise awareness - but you will always get someone who says "it's not my problem."

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In NZ they are all about the same, in a store, or an online retailer. This makes it clearly a Distributor thing, but every single game is available to be purchased through other places and delivered/downloaded in NZ and used exactly the same as a game bought here. NZ standard game price is $80-110, US game price converted to NZ$ is $30-50...

Some games have the online download version available at the same price as the US/UK, but most we pay more.

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$7.25, but many states have higher minimum wages set.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

Wow. Im in Australia and I thought the $20/hr i was earning when i worked in the supermarket was bad :p

The games pricing in Australia has been out of whack for some time. Even going and buying retail still finds games in the 70-80 dollar region, for no good reason. It seems with the increases in technology in the past 15 years the prices havent changed at all. No wonder Australians were recently found to be the highest downloaders of illegal content per population.

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The problem has to be with the distributors in Aussie and here in NZ (Believe it is the same company 99% of the time), but that still makes it unacceptable, and I agree with posting the thread every year, even if only to stop people purchasing it via means where they get ripped off. One of my friends used to buy a video game every month through stores in NZ at $80-$110, after I started to point out other places he could get them, he is now purchasing the same games from overseas suppliers (Or the occasional NZ Supplier who sources from overseas) for half that, and less.

I keep trying to spread the word, doesn't seem to get very far as stores here still make money, but surely just doing a little bit helps. And maybe eventually someone will take notice and do something about it.

Good to find some fellow NZ based FM players. Out of interest, what are some of the oversweas suppliers you use who will ship to NZ?

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I assume most of you have found cheaper prices but in case you want the boxed version (which I do), Wow HD (wowhd.co.nz or wowhd.com.au) currently have it for AU$31.16 or NZ$39.19. These prices include 20% off (sale on until 11.59pm Wednesday). Free shipping on the NZ site or for some reason a $2 charge for Australia. I've used the NZ site a few times and they have always been reliable, as long as you're prepared to wait 1-2 weeks as the stuff all comes from overseas.

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He didn't say steam set or has control over the price. He just said steam charges more than other regions. And they do. Also I do not understand your argument. So you say Steam has the OPTION of having region specific pricing and Greenman gaming doesn't. Doesn't that go against your statement that steam doesn't set prices? Why doesn't steam remove this 'option' and set the same price per region code like Greenman gaming? In that sense isn't steam a party to the setting of nation based pricing? Just like Greenmangaming doesn't. It is also irrelevant whether GMG wants to or not, just that it is possible. In the age of online shopping countries like Australia can choose to buy physical copies of games for much much cheaper than retailers are charging. There are even shops that import than ship from within Australia, so you get them within a couple of days and obviously doesn't include any new releases within 1-2 weeks, that is still a lot cheaper than the big retailers charge. Considering that, it is ludicrous there isn't more price parity for digital distribution. Steam doesn't explicitly set those extraordinary prices but they aren't doing anything to stop it either. There are plenty of games on steam that have uniform pricing across US and Australia.

Steam gives distributors the option to appease them. Greenman doesn't (not sure). If Greenman had a bigger market share like Steam do it would be interesting to see if distributors cry foul.

I agree Steam doesn't do much to stop them.

It's still up to the distributors to rort that option for price gouging.

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