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Stuart Warren

*Official* Football Manager 2013 Announced!

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I honestly don't know whether to press and moan at the team to fix my FM12 save or sit and wait paitently for FM13. DAMN YOU SI!!! And damn you SEGA while I'm at it for making me continue to wait for Shenmue III!!!

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The target audience for FM is football fans. Not some small niche of hardcore gaming football fans, but all of them.

The game has become more time consuming, the original fans have grown older/busier and have drifted away. SI have simply done something to re-engage with people that were already part of their target audience and at one time probably made up a large percentage of their audience.

Hardcore gamers are not the only ones who deserve a game.

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FM12 sold more than FM11, how come people are saying fans have drifted away? Is it something you just pull out because it helps forward your agenda?

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Can't believe they've wasted time and energy on producing FMC and the challenges. It's all far too 'gimmicky' for my liking.

Adding tones to the media interaction isn't going to make them any less boring either IMO, infact it's going to be worse as it's even more repetitive clicks.

Please, please SI, say you have vastly improved the AI's ability for squad building in the next announcement.

Mate, if you havent got time to play FM because of family/work commitements - which would involve a large portion of the FM fan base incidently - then it's far from gimmicky and one of the most groundbreaking things in this game. It will keep disillusioned managers, it will get back old managers and thus give SI more funds to invest in future versions.

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I think people are more worried by the fact that SI have used precious time and resources in to making FMC, rather than put everything in to making the core of FM even better.

The micro-transactions isn't really a problem yet. But surely it's just the start of a very slippery path. Where is this going to end? Is this just a tester to see just how many people are willing to pay?

If SI make more money than they thought from them, will they then start to think to put them into FM. Let's say for an editor, updates, or as much as I hate to say this, patches?

There is a market for FM classic, especially for people like me who grew up with the CM2 and CM3 generation, we are older now and just don't have the time to play more complicated recent FMs.

FMC is a great idea.

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The target audience for FM is football fans. Not some small niche of hardcore gaming football fans, but all of them.

The game has become more time consuming, the original fans have grown older/busier and have drifted away. SI have simply done something to re-engage with people that were already part of their target audience and at one time probably made up a large percentage of their audience.

Hardcore gamers are not the only ones who deserve a game.

Not sure about the relationship between football fans and a legion of cheaters who buys cheat codes, I think only time will tell who's right or wrong.

Have a nice day.

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I couldn't be less bothered about the second, honest.

Good thing it's not all about you then, FM is catering to two separate markets in two separate game modes, what can you possible dislike about it? If you don't like FMC fine, but it doesn't actually affect your gaming experience what so ever, I don't see why you're being so stubborn with this to be honest.

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What?? I can't play with a mac I bought four years ago which runs just fine??

Twellman24 - It's not so bad actually. I have never upgraded, but found out we could do the following: Call 1-800-MY APPLE and ask for the 10.6 OSX disk. It cost me $21.76 with free shipping ...will get it next week. Put the CD in follow prompts, then update the software that will take you to 10.6.8. From here we can purchase the newest OSX 10.8 from the Apple web site for another $20 if you wish. So no need to fret if you willing to put out an extra $20 to $40 bucks to update your OS. We'll be ready by release date!!

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Not sure about the relationship between football fans and a legion of cheaters who buys cheat codes, I think only time will tell who's right or wrong. Have a nice day.
So because I'll probably end up using FM Classic does that make me a cheater? The unlockables are just that, you unlock them either by completing an objective or by buying them. You do not have to use them at all as it is up to you to enable them if you unlock them. You are not forced to use any unlockable or buy any unlockable. These only apply to FMC, not the normal career mode. So as that will be the mode that you will want to use you will not be affected by the unlockables. You still could be affected by someone using FMRT or whatevber it is called in a network game.

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Not sure about the relationship between football fans and a legion of cheaters who buys cheat codes, I think only time will tell who's right or wrong.

Have a nice day.

Football fans are a cross section of people. Some will have big houses, some will have small houses. Some will be doctors, some will be road sweepers. Some will play 'full fat' FM every night for four hours, some will play FMC four hours a week and some will buy cheat codes.

It's not about being right or wrong, or one section of gamers being more important than another. I'm not implying that all football fans want to cheat, but then not all football fans are hardcore gamers. Now the hardcore gamers have a game, the busy dads have a game and people who want to buy cheat codes to make the game easier have a game. It's not wrong to appeal to all those people. They all play the game for the same reason - love of football.

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You idiot. There is a market for FM classic, especially for people like me who grew up with the CM2 and CM3 generation, we are older now and just don't have the time to play more complicated recent FMs.

FMC is a great idea.

There's definitely got to be a market for this, though I'd argue older FM's weren't more simple because the game and its philosophy fundamentally changed. The goal has always been to be the most authentic management game, an experience that is meant to grab you by your balls, put you right in the dug out and see how you can cope running. Older FM's were more simple because they, as any else game, were products of the technology of their time and period.

Regardless, I understand the reasoning for such a game mode well. The funny thing is though that I often don't have the time nor the dexterity to play FM myself. In that case I just don't play it, simple. My reasoning for playing and paying for FM is totally different: IF I take my time, I don't want to "waste" it on the various more superficial management games out there. I want it all rather than basic, that is what FM has always been standing for. I want my time to be spent well. Obviously "time spent well" is in the eye of the beholder, and for some it seems to be something else than what I am looking for. Hopefully FMC might fill a gap between the big number of more superficial games already out there and the fully-fledged management sim that is FM. But a lot of features cut from FMC have always been optional anyway.

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I really don't understand all the noise around the micro-transactions.

The guys from SI already explain that this feature is only for FMC. And they already said that that anyone who play in FMC mode unlock the features in the course of the game.

Do you really believe it will stay that way? In a year or two they will have their little micro transaction all over the game, they are testing the water here.

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Do you really believe it will stay that way? In a year or two they will have their little micro transaction all over the game, they are testing the water here.

Yes i do! Please read the post #427! IMO this is what will happen!

So i have no worries about micro-transactions being brought into the "main" game! :)

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That's not a stadium photo; it's the 3D match stadium. You'll see that sort of thing behind the pre-match build-up screens now. :)

Wow, it looks very realistic then. :)

Much better to have the stadium in the background of all the pre-match stuff, I remember it was like that on LMA Manager for the PS2.

03/04 > 01/02.
My thoughts exactly. :cool:

All the way! :cool:

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I think people are more worried by the fact that SI have used precious time and resources in to making FMC, rather than put everything in to making the core of FM even better.

The micro-transactions isn't really a problem yet. But surely it's just the start of a very slippery path. Where is this going to end? Is this just a tester to see just how many people are willing to pay?

If SI make more money than they thought from them, will they then start to think to put them into FM. Let's say for an editor, updates, or as much as I hate to say this, patches?

These were my main concerns too. Particularly about the resources. There are still bugs in FM12.2 which were pointed out while FM11 was in its infancy. If these have all been corrected and things such as ME issues and AI squad building have been improved then fair enough.

My main problem would be that when Steam became mandatory the only upside for customers was that less piracy equals more sales which in return provides a bigger budget to improve the next installment. If that cash has gone towards a new game mode and the previous glitches still exist then that isn't what I was expecting.

If FM13 contains a radical improvement to FM12s bug issues and a new game mode then great. If it provides a new game mode but the usual games main improvements are a database update and a few cosmetic tweaks with known problems still going unsolved then I'd be disgusted.

And has that extra budget gone towards producing a finished product out of the box? It gets a bit old when as a paying customer you hand over your cash and have to wait 4 months and 3 patches for a fully playable game. That might be acceptable for a free game but as we pay for the product its pretty poor form to happen year after year. Especially when things are worded to make it sound like SI are doing us a favour by patching a game that wouldn't have been ready for release if it wasn't for the xmas market.

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I was going to write a multi paragraph post about how microtransactions in FM are horrible and quite possibly the most ridiculous thing in the history of video games, and I mean that literally. However instead of fighting rampant idiotic fanboyism which is, of course, an effort in futility, I'll say only that as a fan and customer of the FM series I am saddened by this turn of events. This news has permanently damaged the reputation of SI games in my eyes and I hope that this particular monetization will not expand to other areas of the game and preferably not return in FM2014 at all. Attempt to rationalize it if you must but I can assure you you are objectively wrong if you think this is anything other than a massive step in the wrong direction for this franchise and its customers.

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Just a note about hard-core gamers: they're basically FM players that love to immerse themselves into the game, without compromises or cheats, they don't want an easy or quick job, the opposite of a FMC gamer that buys unlockables.

It's a philosophical difference.

Again, imo you're no hardcore gamer, nor you, nor any fm player for that matter, i've been playing games like this since elifoot and i'm no hardcore gamer, fm is a click fest game.. a very good one, yes you might be an old school player like me, hardcore on fm? hm no, and maybe just maybe you love to immerse yourself into the game because you have the time for it like i sometimes do, maybe FMC gamers are not.. (hmm well if some are hardcore i guess fmc gamers are the noobs on this analogy) noobs, maybe they are just people who don't have time to play the main game, and maybe if they pay for unlockables it's because they don't have time to unlock them either. This is fm, not starcraft with their e-sport leagues and what not, really don't know where the elitism is coming from, again, main game is untouched dunno why people are so bothered about whoever plays FMC, i guess a new reign of "oh you play fmc u noblet i'm better than u" is coming.. BEWARE! :lol:

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I was going to write a multi paragraph post about how microtransactions in FM are horrible and quite possibly the most ridiculous thing in the history of video games, and I mean that literally. However instead of fighting rampant idiotic fanboyism which is, of course, an effort in futility, I'll say only that as a fan and customer of the FM series I am saddened by this turn of events. This news has permanently damaged the reputation of SI games in my eyes and I hope that this particular monetization will not expand to other areas of the game and preferably not return in FM2014 at all. Attempt to rationalize it if you must but I can assure you you are objectively wrong if you think this is anything other than a massive step in the wrong direction for this franchise and its customers.

Well game developers are convinced Free to Play is the future so microtransactions are going to be in all games soon anyway, but at least SI created separate modes so people can still play the full FM without ever seeing the microtransactions.

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I'm absolutely pumped to buy this game the second it's released...

I'm most excited about the new 3D match engine and training system! I watch full matches so thats important to me.

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By including FM Classic, SI would hope to expand the market. If you look at posts here, people who have hope for FM Classic are customers like me. Some of us still play every edition, but some of us don't anymore. Some of us have FM 2012 in the computer, but some of us still have good old CM 01/02. I still have good old fantastic CM 03/04. After four to five years, SI has listened to their customers and, with FM Classic, hopes to bring its customers back. It's simple business. The FM itself is always improved so that SI won't lose current customers, but will get new ones. Again, it's simple business.

If you think that FM Classic is for dummies, you're wrong. Many don't care about transfer rumors, agent negotiation, etc. FM Classic will thus be a good alternative.

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Huge step forward in the series to cater for both the "casual" and the "hardened" FMer in terms of time available to spend.

Microtransaction I couldn't care less about. I won't buy them and as long they are they only ever unlock features to make the game easier (rather than what should be in the game at the start) I won't complain. The starting as international manager microtransaction (in FMC) is very much a step in the wrong direction imo, and I hope nothing further is added like this again.

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What I'm worry about if in the FMC the game would constantly remind me to use microtransactions. Hopefully we can turn it off completely as it reminds me a lot off those free-to-play games which is made to suck money out of you (not that I've ever tempted by it - just disgusted with it).

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FM Classic is the best thing to happen for years with this game for us ageing diehards of yesteryear (I'm 28 now - not old, granted, but it sometimes feels like it when I log on here). I might finally get the chance to play the game properly again for the first time since FM07.

For those not good enough to play it? LOL!!! Try saying that to those (i.e. grown-ups) who actually have responsibilities and a life. I'm plenty "good at it" thanks very much and always have been. For the last few releases, I just haven't had the time to play more than 1.5-2 seasons at the very best. I have a full-time job, caring duties, voluntary work, many interests such as actually playing football and golf - oh, and a family too. I get maybe an hour, tops, every couple of days to relax and play FM, I want to work my way through a career in the game, not excruciatingly plot my way through a few matches now and again. If you don't like it, don't play in classic mode. It's that simple. Don't bitch and whine about something that you say you're not going to use anyway. Let those of us who needed this enjoy it, please.

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Well I'll continue to look forward to hearing about the changes to training etc. but have to say it seems like the games catering more for the 'casual' player track which for me is a bit disappointing. In the long run though it's probably a better sales tactic for SI.

Hopefully we'll hear more about changes of the loaning system, scouting etc. soon as these are the things that excite me most; more immersion in the standard FM career.

Edit:

Just wanted to add that I'm not entirely sure how the 'I have a job/family/reponsibility' means that you can't play FM casually as is.

You might not be able to play every day but a few spare hours a week (say on the weekend, or a Friday night) is enough to play a good few matches, particularly if you're not fussed about the nitty gritty details of training, scouting. Given that you have each version for a year that's still plenty of time to play 5 or so seasons 'casually'.

As above it's a good marketing strategy for SI to pull older players back into the series, I don't necessarily agree it's going to help with the advancement of the game. Ater all the draw for a lot of us is actuallybeing the manager. In other words, we want as much detail and immersion as possible, as if we had the job proper.

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It still won't be the same as before and you now it. It's just a try to please the minority who requested it.

A lot of Posts saying "this feature is for the minority, that feature is for the minority" - I imagine SI games have conducted proper market research on large numbers of gameplayers, whilst these "Johnny Laptops" in their bedroom are voicing the (in some cases) rather bigoted opions of just one!

This is not aimed just at Fabio, he is one of many.

I plan to use many of the new features / playing options at least on a trial basis, if I am in the minority and they are "options" - who cares? (and remember any "development time or costs" utilised on features are just expanding the game's reach).

Why is it every year some forum members insist on trying to impose "their way of playing" on everyone else? (and whilst I wouldnt spend £1.50 to activate a "cheat" option, I have no right to say no one else can do it). Wind your neck in and just play the game - your way if you like!

The previously posted statement "this is simulator - not fun game" highlights a semi-truth and gives a whole world of motivation for SI to introduce the FMC style or experience

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These were my main concerns too. Particularly about the resources. There are still bugs in FM12.2 which were pointed out while FM11 was in its infancy. If these have all been corrected and things such as ME issues and AI squad building have been improved then fair enough.

My main problem would be that when Steam became mandatory the only upside for customers was that less piracy equals more sales which in return provides a bigger budget to improve the next installment. If that cash has gone towards a new game mode and the previous glitches still exist then that isn't what I was expecting.

If FM13 contains a radical improvement to FM12s bug issues and a new game mode then great. If it provides a new game mode but the usual games main improvements are a database update and a few cosmetic tweaks with known problems still going unsolved then I'd be disgusted.

And has that extra budget gone towards producing a finished product out of the box? It gets a bit old when as a paying customer you hand over your cash and have to wait 4 months and 3 patches for a fully playable game. That might be acceptable for a free game but as we pay for the product its pretty poor form to happen year after year. Especially when things are worded to make it sound like SI are doing us a favour by patching a game that wouldn't have been ready for release if it wasn't for the xmas market.

Fully totally agree 100%, it's like if you read my mind. My english is not good enough for pointing out my opinion, luckily you did it for me :)

it seems they did a lot of work on the match engine, so let's just wait for the demo and see what happens.

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I love the idea of FMC.

I enjoy international management.

Can't do both it seems, without either winning manager of the year three times in a row (which I'm in no way good enough to do!) or pay extra.

Fine with the rest of the microtransactions - they won't affect me in the slightest. But this is removing an existing game feature and charging people to put it back in. Which is a bit rubbish.

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Anybody know if there will be HD skin or option to increase font size for those playing on HD tv's or very high resolution monitors ?

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In other words, we want as much detail and immersion as possible, as if we had the job proper.

Well then you're still free to play the game in its normal and primary mode. Good for you. Why then tell me and others like me that we shouldn't have access to FMC? The advancement of the game won't be harmed at all, yet SI retain and maybe even regain alot of players.

Just wanted to add that I'm not entirely sure how the 'I have a job/family/reponsibility' means that you can't play FM casually as is.

If you're not sure, then with respect, don't question it. I'm made up for you that you can play the game every day, all day. Hell, I used to once. Times change, one day you'll realise that. Like I said, I'm 28 and already I can't devote my life to a game, happens sooner than you think.

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In other words, we want as much detail and immersion as possible, as if we had the job proper.

If the game was to be made as realistic as possible it would be fairly terrible though. Can you imagine having to play the game in real time, including watching 90 minute matches?

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I love the idea of FMC.

Fine with the rest of the microtransactions - they won't affect me in the slightest. But this is removing an existing game feature and charging people to put it back in. Which is a bit rubbish.

they are not removing anything from the game .

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Anybody know if there will be HD skin or option to increase font size for those playing on HD tv's or very high resolution monitors ?

Aye, this is very important they do something about this.

Disappointed to read though a mod say that FMC wont be a simulation. For me when I purchased CM1 it didnt have many features but it was still technically a simulation. With FM I want all the nice graphics and tactical tweaks of modern versions but with other portions (such as the ones SI have removed) to make a season much quicker. If the game is somehow easier and linera (i.e. not a simulation) then whats the point? I want a stripped down version of FM thats still a simulation. If a simulation means lots of featues then where do you draw the line? Perhaps the current FM wont be classed a simulation when FM20 allows you to have your own shop on match days :/

Hoping now that FMC still contains the normal match engine and normal idiosynrancies, normal amount of players to choose from but with other elements stripped down. If they'v made it easier with rubber banding then they Im writing it off personally. Unsure why things such as International Management have been taken out and I suppose this supports the theory thats it's more arcadey. But the people who want FMC are the ones who dont want it arcadey! They want the illustion of the CM/FM's they grew up with...where the game didnt have as much features but because you had more time to play, it drew you in to the world without gimmicks such as 'you wont the league, xxxxxx is now unlocked'

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they are not removing anything from the game .

Yes they are - the ability to start as manager of an international team (in FMC)

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Yes they are - the ability to start as manager of an international team (in FMC)

FMC is basically FM handheld where you have to unlock international management so they haven't removed anything.

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Well this is me gone in to hiding until Xmas. Can not wait, loving the challenges as it's something different to do and even the Director of Football idea, I can safely say being a Peterborough United Fan, Barry Fry is going nowhere near my players.

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I'm at the stage now where I simply don't have the time to both play FM and spend hours in the forums reading endless tactical discussion - result, I end up lifting a tactic from someone else (same with training schedules) and playing with that. The ever-decreasing free hours I have I want to spend playing the game, not drowning in a sea of sliders and opponent instructions in a futile attempt to come up with a half decent set of tactical instructions (in an exercise that bears no relation to real management whatsoever).

Maybe I'm looking for a dumbed-down version, I don't know, I've not really thought of any viable solutions. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, it's still the best on the market by far - but I'm sad to say that I'm finding it even less accessible than ever.

I posted the above on this very board four years ago. Whilst I'm pleased to hear that something close to what I was looking for back then is on its way, I'm not sure that this particular ship hasn't already sailed. I bought FM12 having not bothered with FM11 but have barely played it as that particular void has been filled by other less time-consuming alternatives (which I suspect are partly responsible for the introduction of FMC).

Good luck SI, as always, but for me - and I suspect one or two others - the horse may have already bolted.

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I love the idea of FMC.

I enjoy international management.

Can't do both it seems, without either winning manager of the year three times in a row (which I'm in no way good enough to do!) or pay extra.

Fine with the rest of the microtransactions - they won't affect me in the slightest. But this is removing an existing game feature and charging people to put it back in. Which is a bit rubbish.

Judging by how it works in FMH, you can still become International manager in the game, just not right from the start.

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Judging by how it works in FMH, you can still become International manager in the game, just not right from the start.

Yes i think everyone knows that Ackter. I think the issue is what is the point of getting back all these casual gamers on board and then not let them start as England manager from the word go without having to pay an unlock fee. I would of thought there are quite a few casual gamers that would be interested in International management from the word go and is unlikely that with there modern day commitments that there going to want to put in the time to unlock it naturally.

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Judging by how it works in FMH, you can still become International manager in the game, just not right from the start.

Which was exactly what it was like on the old CMs, unless you used the 'same name as the current national manager' cheat :brock:

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Which was exactly what it was like on the old CMs, unless you used the 'same name as the current national manager' cheat :brock:

And in later games you had to click on a player who played for the National team you wanted, click on his flag, and then the "Pick Nation" button would appear on it.

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Which was exactly what it was like on the old CMs, unless you used the 'same name as the current national manager' cheat :brock:

I can remember this! :p But there was one national team I could never manage (France).... As he had an accent above one of the letters in his name... Just had a look and I think it was Aimé Jacquet (CM97/98) I used to try so many times.... But it never accepted to my dismay!!! :o

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And has that extra budget gone towards producing a finished product out of the box? It gets a bit old when as a paying customer you hand over your cash and have to wait 4 months and 3 patches for a fully playable game. That might be acceptable for a free game but as we pay for the product its pretty poor form to happen year after year. Especially when things are worded to make it sound like SI are doing us a favour by patching a game that wouldn't have been ready for release if it wasn't for the xmas market.

and how is the operating system you play the game on any different? but yet you have no problem dishing out a few hundred for it knowing very well 3 sevice packs will eventually be released.

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FM Classic is the best thing to happen for years with this game for us ageing diehards of yesteryear (I'm 28 now - not old, granted, but it sometimes feels like it when I log on here). I might finally get the chance to play the game properly again for the first time since FM07.

For those not good enough to play it? LOL!!! Try saying that to those (i.e. grown-ups) who actually have responsibilities and a life. I'm plenty "good at it" thanks very much and always have been. For the last few releases, I just haven't had the time to play more than 1.5-2 seasons at the very best. I have a full-time job, caring duties, voluntary work, many interests such as actually playing football and golf - oh, and a family too. I get maybe an hour, tops, every couple of days to relax and play FM, I want to work my way through a career in the game, not excruciatingly plot my way through a few matches now and again. If you don't like it, don't play in classic mode. It's that simple. Don't bitch and whine about something that you say you're not going to use anyway. Let those of us who needed this enjoy it, please.

I agree completely. I'm 34 and and simply don't have time to deal with many of the recent additions to the game, but I still want to play through multiple seasons. I didn't even finish a single season in FM12 because my real life didn't give me the time. Even when I had some free time, the thought of slogging through a bunch of things I really didn't care about dissuaded me from playing. I'm a perfectionist by nature, so even though I wanted to get through seasons as quickly as possible, I still needed to do team talks, individual talks, tweak training, etc. because that is my nature. If those options weren't open, I'd move on and be a perfectionist with regard to the options that are open.

Also, the idea that a person actually gains self worth based on how they play a damn video game is absurd. Anyone in this thread who thinks that people who will use classic mode deserve scorn need to stare in a mirror for about a week straight (without blinking, Clockwork Orange style) and realize how pathetic they are for being judgmental regarding how people utilize a piece of a software designed solely for the purpose of individual entertainment. You might as well be critiquing my style of masturbation, while getting upset that I don't follow your preferred style.

In other words, it is a damn computer game meant to entertain. If you get self-righteous about something like this, you have some serious issues to resolve.

To each their own. Bravo, SI for providing options. I may not even play a career mode and might only try out the challenges in the free time that I have to devote to the game.

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