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Zenit spends 100M in Portugal

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So Zenit just spends 100M in two players that play in Portugal:

Hulk from Porto for 60M

Witsel from Benfica for 40M

I was just wondering if this would be possible in FM2012.

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Its actually reported 80 million euros which is about £63 million but its very unlikely teams like Zenit actually buy players for these prices on FM and isn't exactly common in reality although they do spend money more freely in reality such as Eto'o and Dszsudsak at Anzhi Makhachkala. I do think more inferior clubs need to gain more power over good players when they have extreme amounts of money.

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Discuss it HERE, guys. If this was in game I seriously doubt it, as the portuguese players never value this much.

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Discuss it HERE, guys. If this was in game I seriously doubt it, as the portuguese players never value this much.

why discuss it in the non si/game related forum when he ends his OP with would it be possible in FM?

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Its actually reported 80 million euros which is about £63 million but its very unlikely teams like Zenit actually buy players for these prices on FM and isn't exactly common in reality although they do spend money more freely in reality such as Eto'o and Dszsudsak at Anzhi Makhachkala. I do think more inferior clubs need to gain more power over good players when they have extreme amounts of money.

Totally agree.

In the game say if you were in charge of Anzhi you would have zero change of signing Eto'o as they did in real life unless the player was no1# Old & most importantly no2# transfer listed. Then you may have a slim tiny chance.

Even though you can offer him the earth he wouldnt even negotiate with you.

Think its the do with the players rep and the clubs rep, but this needs addressing in FM13 as like real life more and more players are moving to clubs like Anzhi would mega bucks.

Or like with the MLS many players (like Tim Cahill recently) are in there 30's and could probley still have a role to play in the Premier League (all be it a smaller role than in recent times) but instead they cash in and head off to end there career on a nice pay day playing in a league where theyll be treated like there Messi in his prime.

On the game its very hard to get good players to the MLS. Im not talking about signing Rooney for LA Galaxy as that be very unrealistic until he reaches the end of his career but im talking about the 30+ year olds who maybe only have a year left on there contract etc...declining players basically.

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Hopefully they will look at this for FM13.

Too late for them to look at this now for FM2013..

Either they already have done so or you have to wait for FM2014

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Too late for them to look at this now for FM2013..

Either they already have done so or you have to wait for FM2014

Well, I don't think it's too late for FM13. But my hopes are they have already fixed it. The problems with big name signings for rich teams in lesser leagues has been around for a while.

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The problem is that it's hard to tell what is 'realistic' or not anymore thanks to some of these mega-rich clubs.

If you were playing FM a few years ago and a world class player left a top club to join a lesser known club at the peak of his career then everyone would be up in arms about the unrealistic nature of this transfer so SI put things in place to stop clubs going for players whose CA/reputation was deemed out of their league and to stop players being interested in these clubs.

If they change the game to allow this to happen again, how do they stop it happening too frequently? Clubs may start blowing their transfer / wage budgets on one player from a bigger club and players will happily drop down leagues just because they are getting a 1% pay increase.

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Why is it every single time a big transfer happens in reality, we end up with a thread about it in an FM sense?

With this kinda thing as Kenco says its a balancing act really. Make reputation have too much influence and players will rarely move from a big club, have it have little effect then you could end up with the likes of Anzi having an entire squad full of the worlds very best players.

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The problem is that it's hard to tell what is 'realistic' or not anymore thanks to some of these mega-rich clubs.

If you were playing FM a few years ago and a world class player left a top club to join a lesser known club at the peak of his career then everyone would be up in arms about the unrealistic nature of this transfer so SI put things in place to stop clubs going for players whose CA/reputation was deemed out of their league and to stop players being interested in these clubs.

If they change the game to allow this to happen again, how do they stop it happening too frequently? Clubs may start blowing their transfer / wage budgets on one player from a bigger club and players will happily drop down leagues just because they are getting a 1% pay increase.

The problem previously was more to do with players joining crap teams for even lesser wage than they had.. IRL players tend to get an insane payrise..

I'd love to see more financial powerteams in FM.. Also I'd like to make it more difficult for 2. or 3. shelf teams to turn into worldbeaters.. Even PSG with their billion will probably not win CHL within 5 years.. buy in FM if you have just a shred of that cash, you can easily build a worldbeating team

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And Diarra has just signed for Anzhi. More proof that a large number of players WILL move to a club if they are offered big money in spite of the FM golden rule of club reputation. It does need sorting.

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It's all very well saying it needs sorting out but how would you sort it?

What if I had a lowly Championship or League 1 club and always sold a few of my better players each season to generate funds and only ever sign free transfers. After a few seasons I could have a tranfer budget in excess of £25m and buy Hulk.

What if AI teams started doing something similar? The forum would go insane with posts like "Messi just signed for Blackpool, this game is ridiculous!!"

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It's all very well saying it needs sorting out but how would you sort it?

What if I had a lowly Championship or League 1 club and always sold a few of my better players each season to generate funds and only ever sign free transfers. After a few seasons I could have a tranfer budget in excess of £25m and buy Hulk.

What if AI teams started doing something similar? The forum would go insane with posts like "Messi just signed for Blackpool, this game is ridiculous!!"

Not the same thing. These are clubs with sugar daddy reputations, the clubs in your example would be clubs with £25m to buy a player, but no sugar daddy wage budget. No reason for Hulk to join that club.

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If you have enough transfer budget you can move it to your wage budget instead. How about if you offload your top earners and just have youth players on £55 per week to play with Hulk? A bit extreme I know, but possible.

Also if it just applies to sugar daddy clubs then what about big clubs like Man Utd or Arsenal who don't have sugar daddies?

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If you have enough transfer budget you can move it to your wage budget instead. How about if you offload your top earners and just have youth players on £55 per week to play with Hulk? A bit extreme I know, but possible.

Also if it just applies to sugar daddy clubs then what about big clubs like Man Utd or Arsenal who don't have sugar daddies?

You had The Championship and L1 in your example, I am not sure how Arsenal or Man U fits in there. I am sure Premiership teams can attract most players without sugar.

My point is, with a sugar daddy the players know their wages will be payed. With a sugar daddy, the club will buy lots of exciting players. You club will not.

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Whenever something happens IRL there's always a thread on here asking weather it would be possible on fm.

It's a game, just enjoy it.

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It should be player specific as it is in real life. Messi will probably never leave Barca, no matter how much he is offered by anyone else. Somebody like say a Balotelli would probably go and play in Baghdad if he was offered 400k a week. Perhaps hidden "loyalty" "ambition" and "greed" stats?

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You had The Championship and L1 in your example, I am not sure how Arsenal or Man U fits in there. I am sure Premiership teams can attract most players without sugar.

My point is, with a sugar daddy the players know their wages will be payed. With a sugar daddy, the club will buy lots of exciting players. You club will not.

The Arsenal / Man Utd mention was because you said these players will only go to clubs with sugar daddies but they do not have one.

As I said before, by being prudent with finances you could potentially have a wage budget where you could afford to have at least one top player at a smaller club, so therefore you could afford his wages.

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Nobody is wrong here at all. It certainly does need addressing.

However I can see it being incredibly hard to get totally accurate.

Do it wrong and my wish for this to be addressed could become a curse. For example, teams like Anzhi have the money to get the likes of Eto'o and now Diarra. However its not like there going out and signing the entire Barcelona Squad. It be vital to ensure this didnt happen in the game where these sugar daddy clubs just sign everyone. Needs to be kept accurate. Highly unlikely anyone in there prime (Ronaldo, Messi, Rooney etc...) would make the jump regardless of money.

Heard someone before mention a greed attribute and location attribute. For example players like Zlatan moved to PSG for the money. Quite plain and simple. But the lure of location obviously helped make his choice. For example Anzhi is a shocking place, so much infact that the team jets in and out just for the games. Does not train there, live there etc....

Eto'o is still a talent but his age meant the move to Anzhi represented a good move finacially. At his age his CA is only going to get worse so why not cash in while he could and at the time nobody else was interested who could offer such a package.

Some kind of Greed attribute, Location attribute (there in the game already just need to have more impact when it comes to instances like this) as well as taking into account the players age etc....would be nice in FM13.

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Not all sugar-daddy owned clubs stay around forever (I think Notts County is an example of this).

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It should be player specific as it is in real life. Messi will probably never leave Barca, no matter how much he is offered by anyone else. Somebody like say a Balotelli would probably go and play in Baghdad if he was offered 400k a week. Perhaps hidden "loyalty" "ambition" and "greed" stats?

Loyalty and ambition are already in there. Not sure how greed would work, perhaps if a player has a loyalty attribute below a fixed value then they should automatically disregard club reputation when an offer comes in? Or perhaps on an incremental scale combined with ambition, so a player with low loyalty but high ambition will only go to a similar or higher rep club, but low loyalty with low ambition will be prepared to drop to a lower rep club.

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I highly doubt they could introduce a "greed" attribute, even hidden, for anyone in the starting database. But it would be nice to see them improve this side of things a bit.

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Heard someone before mention a greed attribute and location attribute. For example players like Zlatan moved to PSG for the money. Quite plain and simple. But the lure of location obviously helped make his choice. For example Anzhi is a shocking place, so much infact that the team jets in and out just for the games. Does not train there, live there etc....

Cool! Have you been to Anzhi? How was it? Was thinking of going myself. How were the people, the Anzhians? Any good sights?

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The Arsenal / Man Utd mention was because you said these players will only go to clubs with sugar daddies but they do not have one.

As I said before, by being prudent with finances you could potentially have a wage budget where you could afford to have at least one top player at a smaller club, so therefore you could afford his wages.

I never said any players would only go to clubs with sugar daddies. I explained why clubs with lesser reputation in lesser leagues - per your example - could attract players because they have sugar daddies, while you and your example club would not. Are you trolling me, boy?

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Loyalty and ambition are already in there. Not sure how greed would work, perhaps if a player has a loyalty attribute below a fixed value then they should automatically disregard club reputation when an offer comes in? Or perhaps on an incremental scale combined with ambition, so a player with low loyalty but high ambition will only go to a similar or higher rep club, but low loyalty with low ambition will be prepared to drop to a lower rep club.

Oh. Well there we go then! Surely somebody with low ambition and loyalty stats wouldn't mind going to play in the arse end of nowhere if the money was right?

Seems like all they need to do is impliment that. Sould be easy, surely?!

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And we must not forget that Zenit is a team that as a "regular" place in the champions league. So money is important but the fact that the clube can compite in the champions league is important. If Zenit didn't play in the champions league, perhaps Hulk and Witsel would never accept the offer.

the truth is, clubs with sugar daddys, can buy big players from big leagues (or at least better leagues), but it's important that those clubs can compite in champions league or at least in Europa League. So the example that a team from the championship with lot's a money could buy a big player, dont make much sence to me.

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I think you're trolling me boy!

You are completely ignoring my point that it's possible to generate funds with a smaller club without a sugar daddy to the extent that you have the money to sign big names.

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Oh. Well there we go then! Surely somebody with low ambition and loyalty stats wouldn't mind going to play in the arse end of nowhere if the money was right?

Seems like all they need to do is impliment that. Sould be easy, surely?!

Some players are mercenaries who will play for the highest bidder, regardless of the stature of the club. On the other hand people want it to be realistic so players aren't going all over the place. How do SI implement this? With great difficulty because it's not as clear cut as it looks.

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Easy - ambition. If a player has high ambition then they want trophies and glory. A player with low enough ambition will go anywhere for a dollar. That shouldn't be difficult to impliment at all.

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I think you're trolling me boy!

You are completely ignoring my point that it's possible to generate funds with a smaller club without a sugar daddy to the extent that you have the money to sign big names.

first, dont call me boy. I wasn't disrespectful so don't go down that path... it's just childish!

second, my point was, even if a smaller club could generate that amount of money, the fact that this small club was still a small club and didn't compite in the champions league would make very difficult, if not impossible, to make that kind of transfer. just the money is not enough.

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first, dont call me boy. I wasn't disrespectful so don't go down that path... it's just childish!

second, my point was, even if a smaller club could generate that amount of money, the fact that this small club was still a small club and didn't compite in the champions league would make very difficult, if not impossible, to make that kind of transfer. just the money is not enough.

Kenco wasn't responding to you I believe. ;)

Anzhi were nowhere when Eto'o went there, depending on how loyal or disloyal a player is I couldn't see why certain players wouldn't drop down a league just for extra money.

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I wasn't calling you boy, it was in response to Viking because he said that to me a few posts up, which I felt was disrespectful. Apologies for the confusion.

That's why the game currently uses reputation, to stop small clubs with money doing just that. If you say they need to be in a continental competition to sign big players then what about teams from smaller nations who qualify but could be worse than a championship club? It's very difficult to set absolute parameters for this sort of thing.

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Kenco wasn't responding to you I believe. ;)

Anzhi were nowhere when Eto'o went there, depending on how loyal or disloyal a player is I couldn't see why certain players wouldn't drop down a league just for extra money.

Im my opinion you cant compare Eto'o transfer to Anzhi, and the transfers of Hulk and Witsel to Zenit. Eto'o was signing the last contract of his career, so the money was probably the most important thing to him. Hulk and Witsel are still young so, of course money is important but the change to keep playing in the champions league was very important too.

For example i think that is it was Anzhi trying to buy them, they would probably refuse.

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Easy - ambition. If a player has high ambition then they want trophies and glory. A player with low enough ambition will go anywhere for a dollar. That shouldn't be difficult to impliment at all.

and how do you know that isn't already implemented?

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Im my opinion you cant compare Eto'o transfer to Anzhi, and the transfers of Hulk and Witsel to Zenit. Eto'o was signing the last contract of his career, so the money was probably the most important thing to him. Hulk and Witsel are still young so, of course money is important but the change to keep playing in the champions league was very important too.

For example i think that is it was Anzhi trying to buy them, they would probably refuse.

I'm not sure that they would have. What's one year outside of European football when you can potentially earn megabucks and get success?

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And Diarra has just signed for Anzhi. More proof that a large number of players WILL move to a club if they are offered big money in spite of the FM golden rule of club reputation. It does need sorting.

Really?

Despite your claim that a large number of players will move for big money how many transfers like this have we seen in RL? I think you would struggle to name more than 10 that would fall into this category.

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It's all very well saying it needs sorting out but how would you sort it?

What if I had a lowly Championship or League 1 club and always sold a few of my better players each season to generate funds and only ever sign free transfers. After a few seasons I could have a tranfer budget in excess of £25m and buy Hulk.

What if AI teams started doing something similar? The forum would go insane with posts like "Messi just signed for Blackpool, this game is ridiculous!!"

By removing Reputation as a single factor from the game.

It needs to be expanded upon and given a whole new dynamic functionality. One possible way of doing this is to divide the Home and World reputation stats into more informed entities, like for instance Sporting Challenge, Chance of Title, Springboard, Facilities and Economy, Big Name (good old reputation), Football History (past titles), Up and Rising, Football Philisophy and Attractiveness, Non-Football Attractiveness (the city/country) and of course, Deep Pockets (money). The next step would be to make sure that every achievement for both players and clubs would add points to the respective reputation category, and thus player personality would dictate if they thought that being paid ridiculous amounts of money would balance out the need for a sporting challenge; and not one-size-fits-all Reputation which is what we have now.

Having a well-tested and functional system like this would make sure that ambitious youngsters from Manchester United would consider going back to Molde in Norway in order to play first team football and use that as a stepping stone (or Springboard, which is a direct translation of the Norwegian idiom) to bigger clubs in the future, and clubs would gain point in this category by selling players to bigger clubs. Chance of Title, Big Name and Football History are increasingly longer perspective on success. The first is a short term statistic which should change greatly as the season progresses, the second is the one we recognize as world reputation today, and Football History should take into account titles decades ago so that if two clubs challenge for a player and things are otherwise quite similar, clubs with proud history could have an advantage that would (in game terms) never go away.

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Wow didn't know they signed Witsel as well. Signed him and Hulk for a massive £65m, this would be impossible in FM.

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By removing Reputation as a single factor from the game.

It needs to be expanded upon and given a whole new dynamic functionality. One possible way of doing this is to divide the Home and World reputation stats into more informed entities, like for instance Sporting Challenge, Chance of Title, Springboard, Facilities and Economy, Big Name (good old reputation), Football History (past titles), Up and Rising, Football Philisophy and Attractiveness, Non-Football Attractiveness (the city/country) and of course, Deep Pockets (money). The next step would be to make sure that every achievement for both players and clubs would add points to the respective reputation category, and thus player personality would dictate if they thought that being paid ridiculous amounts of money would balance out the need for a sporting challenge; and not one-size-fits-all Reputation which is what we have now.

Having a well-tested and functional system like this would make sure that ambitious youngsters from Manchester United would consider going back to Molde in Norway in order to play first team football and use that as a stepping stone (or Springboard, which is a direct translation of the Norwegian idiom) to bigger clubs in the future, and clubs would gain point in this category by selling players to bigger clubs. Chance of Title, Big Name and Football History are increasingly longer perspective on success. The first is a short term statistic which should change greatly as the season progresses, the second is the one we recognize as world reputation today, and Football History should take into account titles decades ago so that if two clubs challenge for a player and things are otherwise quite similar, clubs with proud history could have an advantage that would (in game terms) never go away.

I agree that the reputation system as it stands is outdated and needs an overhaul and your suggestion looks good, let's hope SI are working on it!

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Make reputation have too much influence and players will rarely move from a big club

So how FM has been since it was CM and we were struggling to sign Kanchelskis.

Modern football, for many years, is Money > Other Considerations.

Football Manager, for many years, is Reputation > Anything at all.

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So Zenit just spends 100M in two players that play in Portugal:

Hulk from Porto for 60M

Witsel from Benfica for 40M

I was just wondering if this would be possible in FM2012.

nah,if it was in FM then Witsel would have left for 8 M and Hulk for 15 M

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nah,if it was in FM then Witsel would have left for 8 M and Hulk for 15 M

I've seen this so many times in my saves! :)

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me too,it is what bothers me the most in FM is how lower level leagues players are so undervalued

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Totally agree.

In the game say if you were in charge of Anzhi you would have zero change of signing Eto'o as they did in real life unless the player was no1# Old & most importantly no2# transfer listed. Then you may have a slim tiny chance.

Even though you can offer him the earth he wouldnt even negotiate with you.

Think its the do with the players rep and the clubs rep, but this needs addressing in FM13 as like real life more and more players are moving to clubs like Anzhi would mega bucks.

Or like with the MLS many players (like Tim Cahill recently) are in there 30's and could probley still have a role to play in the Premier League (all be it a smaller role than in recent times) but instead they cash in and head off to end there career on a nice pay day playing in a league where theyll be treated like there Messi in his prime.

On the game its very hard to get good players to the MLS. Im not talking about signing Rooney for LA Galaxy as that be very unrealistic until he reaches the end of his career but im talking about the 30+ year olds who maybe only have a year left on there contract etc...declining players basically.

I might be the exception, but playing exclusively in MLS I've actually been able to land Kaka from Real (for six months, before Liverpool offered almost 3 times as much as I paid for him--adios, Kaka!) and watched the computer sign Robinho straight from AC Milan. In fact, I'm due to have my very first "wonderkid" arrive in January after Real no longer wanted him. That said, MLS shouldn't really be included in these types of discussions as the league simply can't afford the types of contracts being discussed (Beckham's contract actually only paid him about $6 million per year, not the $30 or $40 million some reports would have you believe.) What we're dealing with are newly-rich clubs that are willing to spend big to acquire talent, and in this case I agree with the sentiment that the game does a poor job of reflecting the basic reality that money is the be-all, end-all in contract negotiations. We can speculate all we want that players such as Messi would never consider playing in the Indonesian sixth division right now...but what would happen if a tycoon came in offered him $50 million per year? Outrageous? Yes. Unrealistic? Yes. Impossible? NO. It's a mistake to think that a player or coach would absolutely refuse to talk to your club without first listening to what sort of offer is made.

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I might be the exception, but playing exclusively in MLS I've actually been able to land Kaka from Real (for six months, before Liverpool offered almost 3 times as much as I paid for him--adios, Kaka!) and watched the computer sign Robinho straight from AC Milan. In fact, I'm due to have my very first "wonderkid" arrive in January after Real no longer wanted him. That said, MLS shouldn't really be included in these types of discussions as the league simply can't afford the types of contracts being discussed (Beckham's contract actually only paid him about $6 million per year, not the $30 or $40 million some reports would have you believe.) What we're dealing with are newly-rich clubs that are willing to spend big to acquire talent, and in this case I agree with the sentiment that the game does a poor job of reflecting the basic reality that money is the be-all, end-all in contract negotiations. We can speculate all we want that players such as Messi would never consider playing in the Indonesian sixth division right now...but what would happen if a tycoon came in offered him $50 million per year? Outrageous? Yes. Unrealistic? Yes. Impossible? NO. It's a mistake to think that a player or coach would absolutely refuse to talk to your club without first listening to what sort of offer is made.

Wow! Im not for a second accusing you of lying or cheating to achieve this, in fact im very impressed. But No matter what on my save no big signings like that happen for the MLS. The only way it will happen on mine is the league Rep suddenly gets alot higher or my club rep gets alot higher (which I doubt will happen as ive won literally everything you can win managing in the MLS, even the North American Champions League). I think I could get Kaka if he was transfer listed or past his best (same for any top player) but no way could I sign someone like that in there prime. Or say technically with CA over 140/200.

The biggest overseas transfers ive seen are quite laughable really when you compare them to the real life ones of Tim Cahill, Beckham & Keane etc.....

Ferre Borde from Swansea to Toronto for 1.4m is the biggest AI signing from overseas who will be known by most.

I managed to sign Keith Andrews from Blackburn for 1.3m. Fair enough he has been huge in the Centre of Midfield for me but hardly a marquee signing and wasnt even a DP player. Agreed deals for Michael Owen & Clareence Seedorf but backed out after deciding Owen would spend more time injured and it wouldnt justify me getting rid of one of my ok-ish Dp's.

Anyway apologies for straying of subject slightly but still has slight reference to the subject at hand as its all based around the Rep system that needs minor tweaking.

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In my case, I had my assman compile a designated player report; he came back with Kaka as one of the players mentioned. I then scouted him with the same assman and returned with "would have no intention of signing with us." The next day I receive a news item stating that I have a "farcical interest" in signing Kaka...after which Real offered him to me for a bit under $6million. I believe this was 2014, but Kaka still had a worldwide reputation and I was able to get him to agree to a contract only after throwing something like $3million at his agent as my board wouldn't let me offer more than $6million or so per year.

This repeated again the next few times I compiled a DP report--teams would suddenly come and offer me their players right after the media ridiculed me (even without the scouting.) Kaka was the only one I agreed to (due to his rep and my lack of quality in the midfield) until Real just offered me the chance to land my first-ever "wonderkid." He's due to join my squad in a month's time and I'm dying to see how he does for me.

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I find it quite annoying that you cant make contract offers to these types of players. Yes they might not be interested in signing but at least let me tempt them or bribe their agent with a ridiculous contract offer which has probably happened in alot of the aforementioned transfers.

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So Zenit just spends 100M in two players that play in Portugal:

I was just wondering if this would be possible in FM2012.

No, both players would refuse to go to Zenit in FM.

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