4-2-3-1 Slow Control

[TwinsFan86]

You'll have to bear with me. Writing is not my strong suit, nor do I possess a great amount of tactical knowledge. That being said, I do want to share something I seem to have stumbled across that has been working quite well. It's not anything revolutionary, nor is it extremely complicated. I felt compelled to start this thread after some discussion in Furious' 451 thread about the 4-2-3-1 and some complaints about the lack of an FM12 4-2-3-1 thread, so here it is, discuss away!

A lot of credit goes to Cleon, reading her threads and theories have really educated me and helped take my understanding of tactics to a new level.

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Enough of that now, on to the tactic itself, and hopefully some good analysis and discussion.

First the formation. It's a pretty simple 4-2-3-1. It's a popular formation both around the world and in the FM community. I haven't tried to revolutionize anything here, just wanted to have a solid core (CD, CD, CM, CM) and build around that. I'm a big fan of the Winger/Inside Forward combination and utilize that in this formation. It works especially well if you've got a Winger with the PPM 'Gets into opposition area.' When the IF is forced wide, the winger often pops up at the far post for some excellent goal-scoring opportunities. The other important aspect is the AM/ST interaction. Using an Advanced Playmaker on support, they will sit between the lines and either spread the play out wide to the other two AM's, or play a through ball to the Poacher, who will be sitting on the shoulder of the last defender and look to get played in for a 1v1 with the GK.

I haven't changed anything here with the team instructions other than to specify Zonal Marking and slow the tempo down. I want to retain possession and control the game. Players won't feel rushed to take the first shot available, and the theory is that the quality of chances will increase, even if the quantity decreases. I also really want to retain my shape and I felt that man marking would cause players to get dragged too far out of position, so I chose Zonal marking. I've got a screenshot that I will show later on that very clearly demonstrates this.

And finally a few thoughts about the individual positions.

GK: Sweeper Keeper - Support Using control strategy, you have a fairly high defensive line, so an athletic keeper who can rush out and sweep up behind the defense is important. This role does that extremely well.

CDs: Central Defender - Defend I've used a Stopper/Cover combination in the past, but with zonal marking in use, I just wanted them to stay in line with one another and have equal responsibility. It seems to be working very well. I have smart, positionally aware players who pick their opportunities to close down and tackle wisely. Very rarely are they caught out of position.*

FBs: Fullback - Automatic With Control strategy, these will be on support by default, which I really like from the Fullback position, but if I feel the need to change to a more attacking or defensive strategy, these roles will change automatically.

CMr: Deep Lying Playmaker - Defend A staple of today's game, this player is found in most formations today. Here he is part of the defensive box that is the base of this formation. Both the CD's and the MCl will look to play simple passes to this player and much your possession will be cycled through him at some point. He will have a license to play a long ball forward, or continue to work the ball forward through the AP as he sees fit. Probably won't get as much credit as he deserves, but he really should help you control the game and start attacking moves.

CMl: Central Midfielder - Defend This role is crucial. You've got plenty of attacking firepower going forward from your other positions and at the same time, you don't want him chasing around like a chicken with it's head cut off. This is the precise reason I didn't choose Ball Winning Midfielder here, even though it seems to be popular. After some experimentation, I settled on CM/D. Has a moderate amount of closing down, won't venture too far forward, and has a license to look for slightly more attack-minded passes, but not to the same extent that the DLP has.

AMR: Winger - Attack Nothing out of the ordinary here. Hugs the touchline, gets forward and tries to put a cross into the box. As I mentioned early, if your team is attacking up the left side of the field, his attacking mentality will often find him crashing into the box and looking to finish at the far post.

AMC: Advanced Playmaker - Support Drops deep and links the play between the MC's and the 3 main attackers. Has a pretty high amount of creative freedom. Doesn't really roam from his position and stays pretty central. Despite being a playmaker, he will still make the occasional run into the box for a late goal threat. I have a couple of pretty exciting young players playing here, one of which I mentioned a couple days ago in Cleon's Youth Development thread.

AML: Inside Forward - Attack With the AMC and MC's staying deep and a poacher pushing up, there is plenty of space for him to cut inside and provide a goal scoring threat. Links well with the AMC and also will provide service to the poacher as well.

ST: Poacher - Attack Will probably provide the majority of your goal scoring, but you don't really need much else from him because there is plenty of support behind him. I've been using Hernandez here with lots of success, but I've also got a really good regen ready to take over the poacher mantle from him.

That should be it for now. I'll have more tomorrow, including a breakdown of a recent game that shows the box created by the CD's and CM's and also a couple different goals, a long ball from the DLP over the top to the poacher, and also one created by the AMC with some very nice creativity and vision.

[TwinsFan86]

I want to point a couple things in this post. First you'll see from the average positions, the CD's and MC's form a very tight defensive box that is extremely difficult to break down. With these players on zonal marking, they won't drift too far from their positions and provide the base from which most of your attacks will be built. You'll also see that the AMC is slightly withdrawn from the two outside AM's. With a poacher leading the line and an IF on the left, you need the AMC to be slightly deeper and to provide link up play to more attacking players.

A couple shots here, first my teams shots. Because of the slow tempo, you won't always see a large amount of shots, but you should see good quality shots because your players won't feel rushed in their chances. Just 2 shots outside the penalty area and 1 those hit the woodwork. I scored 5 goals on 8 shots on target and 2 of my 3 off target shots hit the woodwork. This game was my 20th straight win and I think the overconfidence is starting show a little bit. I wasn't really pleased with either the possession or the passing percentage and I felt that our play was a little sloppy, but our finishing was very clinical which does please me. If I remember correctly the only 2 shouts I used were 'Pass into Space' and 'Work Ball into Box.'

The next couple posts will be about Hernandez's two goals from this game.

[TwinsFan86]

First goal in the 11th minute.

In this first shot, Cavani (playing AMR in this particular match) had just passed to Eri, the CM/d, who was in a lot of space thanks to Bolton's 442 Wide Diamond (MR/L instead of MCR/L) and in both of these goals it was their downfall. Eri would smartly make the simple pass forward to Junior. Junior, despite being shadowed by the DMC, had found himself a little space. A couple other things to note is that Hamsik is being double-teamed and is completely marked out of this play at this point. Hernandez is kind of being loosely marked by the other CB.

Junior, after receiving the ball from Eri, makes a direct run with the ball straight at their defense. You can see that he has the DMC chasing him, and both CB's thinking about stepping out at him. This has left both Hamsik and Hernandez with some space. Also on a side note, you can see the box here from my MC's and CB's. I have 4 defenders boxing in their 3 attackers which makes it difficult to counter-attack against me, should Junior lose the ball.

Junior ran directly at Hamsik and his marker, drawing a lot of attention, before spinning and hitting a through ball for Hernandez that sets him 1v1 with the keeper, as slightly before this you could see his marker had completely turned his back to him. Hernandez made no mistake and finished strongly for an early lead.

[TwinsFan86]

Hernandez's second goal in the 82nd minute.

First screenshot here, my LB has just received a throw from the keeper and had 2 passing options, Eri and Hamsik, and he chose Eri. Again here you can see the space that both my MC's had because of Bolton's formation in this game. The AMC has pushed up with the strikers because they were really pushing to get back into the game after going behind 3-0 in the first half and their DMC is marking Junior.

When Eri receives the ball, the DMC comes charging up to close him down, leaving Junior completely unmarked. Eri plays the ball up to Junior and at this point other than Junior being unmarked, it still seems like fairly harmless passing. This is where it gets fun, though.

Even though he was unmarked, Junior plays a first time pass back to Poirier. I'm guessing this is because Poirier is marked as the team's playmaker in the team instructions. I probably would have preferred him to run at the defence, or turn and look to pass to Hamsik who was way beyond the fullback and being played onside by a CB. Either way he chose to keep the ball moving with a quick pass back to the DLP, Poirier.

Poirier shows remarkable vision and anticipation for a 20-year old and also why he is really the star of this team, with a brilliant pass over the top of their defense for Hernandez to run onto for another 1v1 that he slotted home for his second goal of the game.

A couple different goals that show a bit of how this formation can really create and exploit space, both from the DLP and the AMC positions. Also it shows that you don't have to be playing a high tempo game to score lots of goals. In the past I had always gotten frustrated by players rushing chances when 1v1 or when I thought there were better options available. It's nice to see players being patient and not rushing their chances and the team as a whole really controlling the game.

[Jambo98]

Have to say that i find any Winger/IF/Poacher combination is really potent. I use similar myself, although my midfield 3 are set up slightly differently, they end up in similar positions. I have an APM on attack, in the CM slot. PLays very similar to APM on support in the AMC slot you have.

I also think the principle of having the poacher really does create space in behind, and the beauty of tactics like this, is that either the IF, or the APM can take advantage of that space. I actually found that you can increase the space even more by dropping the d-line a bit deeper. Just means that danger zone space in behind the poacher can expand a little, without going to the extent of leaving the poacher isolated.

I have also always kept my winger on support, to allow him to drop deeper to pick the ball up at times, then turn and run. I guess it depends on the type of winger - if you have a real dribble expert, this is a good idea as he is likely to be able to beat his man. If you have one with pace, acceleration and great off the ball and composure, attack will work well as he is more likely to get onto diagonals and through balls? Is that what you find your winger does?

[TwinsFan86]

I have also always kept my winger on support, to allow him to drop deeper to pick the ball up at times, then turn and run. I guess it depends on the type of winger - if you have a real dribble expert, this is a good idea as he is likely to be able to beat his man. If you have one with pace, acceleration and great off the ball and composure, attack will work well as he is more likely to get onto diagonals and through balls? Is that what you find your winger does?

I have played with the winger both on support and attack. It kinda depends on the personnel available. At the moment, Cleverley has been playing fantastic there on attack (31 games last season, 11 goals, 22 assists, 7.78 rating). If the play is built up the other side of the field, he is often making diagonal runs into the box and getting onto through balls. He is also my best crosser and gets a lot of assists that way too.

EDIT: To add to that, I've found that the winger tends to get more isolated and sometimes disappear from games if there is no AMC playing next to him (451 type formation) when he is on attack. On support he is more likely to come a little deeper and pick up the ball, rather than pushing up high and looking for service when there isn't anyone there to provide it.

[Jambo98]

I have played with the winger both on support and attack. It kinda depends on the personnel available. At the moment, Cleverley has been playing fantastic there on attack (31 games last season, 11 goals, 22 assists, 7.78 rating). If the play is built up the other side of the field, he is often making diagonal runs into the box and getting onto through balls. He is also my best crosser and gets a lot of assists that way too.

EDIT: To add to that, I've found that the winger tends to get more isolated and sometimes disappear from games if there is no AMC playing next to him (451 type formation) when he is on attack. On support he is more likely to come a little deeper and pick up the ball, rather than pushing up high and looking for service when there isn't anyone there to provide it.

Yes i think thats probably the key point on reflection - the position of the winger relative to the "creator" - so if you have an AMC, then i think youd want the winger on attack, if you play with 2 MC (even with APM on attack), you want the winger on support duty.

Wingers can definately be key to this type of shape - in my Twente save i have Coutinho who got 10 goals and 32 assists in a season.

[furiousuk]

Good choice of roles for the midfield pair to get them to hold. It's essential they pull back, which they most certainly have in your average positions map. A good heat map for this formation, each player has space and there are triangles and options all over the place.

It's worth keeping an eye on the mids, I think there can be a problem with their positioning from deadball situations. I've never found it to be too much of problem (I don't use this formation all the time though) but from what I've read it is certainly an issue that needs attention.

[TwinsFan86]

It's worth keeping an eye on the mids, I think there can be a problem with their positioning from deadball situations. I've never found it to be too much of problem (I don't use this formation all the time though) but from what I've read it is certainly an issue that needs attention.

I haven't noticed a problem from this yet, but I will keep an eye out for it.

[gotlandskommun]

going to test it with arsenal =))

[TwinsFan86]

going to test it with arsenal =))

Let me know how it goes. I hope it works well for you.

If I have some time this weekend, I'll put up some analysis from a nice win over Man City.

[gotlandskommun]

Let me know how it goes. I hope it works well for you.

If I have some time this weekend, I'll put up some analysis from a nice win over Man City.

Ok.. yes i will put up some screenshot later today.... =)

do you change anything for a new seson? or do you just plug and play?

any oi´s?

matchprep?

thanks

[agentvinz]

You say your AMC doesn't roam? Then if you play against formation with a DM he will surely mark your AMC out of the game.

Also do you set your AMC as your team's playmaker?

[TwinsFan86]

Ok.. yes i will put up some screenshot later today.... =)

do you change anything for a new seson? or do you just plug and play?

any oi´s?

matchprep?

thanks

I don't normally use any OI's but lately I've been experimenting with having the assistant do the OI's and I always do very high match prep until the team is fluid in the tactic then switch to low. The other part of it doesn't really matter that much, but usually teamwork in the preseason and then attacking movement when the season starts.

As far as changes, I may tweak a role during a game if I feel something isn't working. Keep in mind that built this tactic for the personnel I have, so I don't make drastic changes season to season. Most of the changes I'll make are with shouts during games.

Which leads right to the next question. Both of my AMC's have very good off the ball ratings and can find space even with a DM there (see goal 1 above) but if I did feel they were being marked out of the game, I wouldn't force the issue, and would probably use the Exploit Flanks shout.

[TwinsFan86]

You say your AMC doesn't roam? Then if you play against formation with a DM he will surely mark your AMC out of the game.

Also do you set your AMC as your team's playmaker?

No, the DLP is set as the teams playmaker.

[Gee_Simpson]

Slightly off topic but have you installed anything to make the grass look dark green like that? Or was it because it was raining?

[TwinsFan86]

Slightly off topic but have you installed anything to make the grass look dark green like that? Or was it because it was raining?

Both. It's somewhere in the skinning forum. Gives a wider variety of pitch textures. It's pretty cool actually. Off the top of my head I can't remember what it's called tho.

[Gee_Simpson]

Both. It's somewhere in the skinning forum. Gives a wider variety of pitch textures. It's pretty cool actually. Off the top of my head I can't remember what it's called tho.

I'll try and find it.

Edit - 3D match graphics by Da Weed, is that it?

[TwinsFan86]

I'll try and find it.

Edit - 3D match graphics by Da Weed, is that it?

Yes, I believe that was it.

[matiasemo]

thnx.........

[Gee_Simpson]

thnx.........

Great 1st post

[Hagi_07]

Alright lads, I'm using similar tactic only I have my IF and winger on support as I find on attack they push to far up the pitch and my passing start to go long from defence. I find I get lots of possession with these guys on support, but perhaps less penetration.

Has anyone found similar?

If I have a pet hate its my keeper or defenders punting long wasteful balls forward.

[TwinsFan86]

The 4-2-3-1 can be prone to that, but that's partly why I have my MC's/AMC so conservative. There is nearly always a short option available for my defenders to play it to.

[Hagi_07]

The 4-2-3-1 can be prone to that, but that's partly why I have my MC's/AMC so conservative. There is nearly always a short option available for my defenders to play it to.

I also have the same MC and AMC set up as yourself only I use two CM defend rather than one DLP. With the Wingers on support I find I get 60-70% possession in the games which is great and its wave after wave of attack but at times the goals can be hard to come by.

Things I might try...

Making the team more expressive rather than default.

Setting the winger and IF to make forward runs often but still on support. Maybe a bit of a half way house.

Drop my defensive line to give everyone a bit more space and to draw the opponent out a bit. My possession and slow tempo allows the opposition to get back and sit deep on their box a bit much.