Stephanie McMahon\'s Secre

Options - Making the game easier or harder.

203 posts in this topic

For a while now I have been suggesting that the game needs more options, especially for those of us who are having to work silly hours and have enjoyed the game for years.

Don't get me wrong. If I had the time then I would play the game as intended however, work must come first and I for one am finding it difficult to get into a game with reduced hours to play.

I thought this thread could not only include ideas for making FM Easier (or less tedious and less number crunching) for those of us with not much time, but also more difficult for those of us with plenty of time who then a couple of seasons down the line are finding the game much easier.

So I'll start the ball rolling with a simple "option".

A standard difficulty rating could quite easily be implemented with the following...

Very Easy (all players in your squad have +3 added to all visible attributes)

Easy (all players in your squad have +2 added to all visible attributes)

Helpful (all players in your squad have +1 added to all visible attributes)

Standard (all players in your squad have no change to all visible attributes)

Difficult (all players in your squad have -1 removed from all visible attributes)

Very Difficult (all players in your squad have -2 removed from all visible attributes)

Impossible (all players in your squad have -3 removed from all visible attributes)

Obviously attributes that reach 20 or 1 will stay at that level.

Also I would like to see in the top right hand corner of every screen the difficulty level i.e just a +3 or -1 etc to let everyone know what level you are playing at when you upload screenies.

This option should also have the ability to be enabled or disabled for online play. So that someone who is excellent at the game and someone who is poor at the game can enjoy FM at their respective levels.

I make this recommendation not only for those of us who have no time and sometimes just want to stroll through the game winning everything but also for those who need more of a challenge.

Now for the fun bit - the screenies.

So how does this work? Well let's look at Cleon's fave club Sheffield United and a player by the name of Ryan Flynn. Here he is at the start of a game.

RyanFlynnOverview_Attributes.png

Now on the very easy level he is automatically given a +3 boost to his attributes like so...

RyanFlynnOverview_Attributes-2.png

A very good player for League One indeed. Remember that this would be the player playing at YOUR CLUB on "very easy" level. Let's say Arsenal came in for him at some point. Well in that case once he transfered to Arsenal he would have the regular attributes as seen in screen one.

Now if on the otherhand you where managing say Brighton on "very easy" level and bought Flynn from Sheff Utd as he appears in screen one then when he arrived at your club he would look like he does in screen two. So anyone who joins your club on "easy level" gets a boost of +3 on attributes but loses the +3 when they leave.

With me so far?

Well now for those of us who love a REAL challenge. With your level set at "impossible" you know the sack is just moments away. Here is that quality player again...

RyanFlynnOverview_Attributes-3.png

Now don't forget at your club on "impossible" level all players get an attribute reduction of -3, which the regain when they join another club.

Obviously few of us would play at these extreme levels with one being a virtually guaranteed success whilst the other appears to be a guaranteed failure but there are other levels in between. It's all about finding the right level for you to make the game more enjoyable.

PS - Please don't fill the thread with remarks like "The game is perfect as it is I don't think people should have options". They are "options". Just setting your game difficulty level to "standard" would give you the same game that you've always played would it not?

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I disagree horribly with any artificial ways of boosting game difficulty.

The game should be made as hard/realistic as possible by default, and then the user is offered different layers of help, via their backroom staff and board, that makes it easier for them. That's the only acceptable way I've ever seen suggested for it to work.

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Considering that your opening premise is that the game takes too much time to play for the working man I do not see how giving players at user controlled clubs an attribute boost will change the situation.

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Ackter - Then obviously you'd play the game on the default (standard) level.

Barside - I don't believe you asked that question. Just how hard would you have to work on "very easy" level? :D

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No, I object to the whole inclusion of something like this into the game. It is completely, completely the wrong way to go about it. It's completely against what FM is​.

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You'll still need to do everything in the game & in some areas maybe even more work will be involved to keep your team together & in top form.

Players will still need to be replaced, they'll lose form, ask for moves (attribute boost = improved performance = interest form AI clubs) & with a boosted team comes more success which will result in more games & more time spent getting through a season.

As Ackter touched on the way to make the game more accessible for players with limited spare time is to bring in more delegation options in areas such as coaching, scouting, transfers/contracts & finances.

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No, I object to the whole inclusion of something like this into the game. It is completely, completely the wrong way to go about it. It's completely against what FM is​.

So we should ban all editors then? What do think a lot of players already do out there. They edit the game. Some to make it harder and some to make it more difficult. I don't see what the objection is. If you don't want to play the game with levels you can just play standard. Why should others have to play the game the way you want to?

It's a suggested option.

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You'll still need to do everything in the game & in some areas maybe even more work will be involved to keep your team together & in top form.

Players will still need to be replaced, they'll lose form, ask for moves (attribute boost = improved performance = interest form AI clubs) & with a boosted team comes more success which will result in more games & more time spent getting through a season.

As Ackter touched on the way to make the game more accessible for players with limited spare time is to bring in more delegation options in areas such as coaching, scouting, transfers/contracts & finances.

I see no reason why we can't have both. More options and let us all decide how we play.

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Will you really enjoy a game that is based on a win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue-win-continue model?

If you will then there's already a tool out there for you to use, FMTRE will allow you to boost/reduce attributes to your hearts content.

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I still object completely to it. Next you'll be suggesting the addition of rubber banding.

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You are both missing the entire point. It's an option.

If you don't like it then you play on standard. It's exactly the same game.

What you are doing is objecting to how OTHERS should play the game.

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Terrible idea.

As has been said, the way to make the game more accessible for players who don't have the time or desire to go in so deep is to improve the AI and usefulness of backroom staff.

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No, you're missing the point. The addition of an option does not automatically mean it's a good thing. An option that is fundamentally against the footballing world FM is attempting to create will never be a good thing.

There are much better and more realistic ways to achieve a difficulty level that fits with how the gaming world works.

I'm objecting to how the approach to the game for SI will have to be changed in order to incorporate an idea like this. That would be the first step in a very, very wrong direction.

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You are both missing the entire point. It's an option.

If you don't like it then you play on standard. It's exactly the same game.

What you are doing is objecting to how OTHERS should play the game.

So why not download FMRTE or give yourself a starter advantage with the editor?

You can make the changes you want without tampering with everyone else's game.

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Plus you are also forgetting the legend of Football Manager Live.

The one inescapable truth is that most people, when finding a game difficult, invariabley STOP playing it.

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As an option it will still need to be coded for balance & stability followed by extensive testing, it's a poor use of resources for a feature that would have little or no impact on how much time you have to invest in playing the game.

Basically you want a 'WIN MATCH' button without removing all the bits in the middle, do you enjoy playing FM or do you only enjoy playing FM when you win?

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So why not download FMRTE or give yourself a starter advantage with the editor?

You can make the changes you want without tampering with everyone else's game.

Obviously not read the article properly. Please read it again. The game is exactly the same on standard level. Doesn't affect anyone else's game at all.

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Plus you are also forgetting the legend of Football Manager Live.

The one inescapable truth is that most people' date=' when finding a game difficult, invariabley [b']STOP [/b]playing it.

FML can not be compared to FM. With the exception of starting database and match engine, it was a completely different world.

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Obviously not read the article properly. Please read it again. The game is exactly the same on standard level. Doesn't affect anyone else's game at all.

Wrong, any change to how the game works can have far reaching consequences, without taking into account the resources needed that Barside touched on earlier.

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Some time ago I also created a similar proposal:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/52255-A-realistic-approach-to-difficulty-levels

My idea did not relate to attributes, but to the financial side of the game and reputation. It would affect your budgets and which players you could get or keep. Maybe nowadays it would also act like the starting rep options work as difficulty setting for your own reputation.

I still heavily oppose any kind of influence of difficulty settings on the ME. I don't want the game to cheat against me or in my favour due to such setting. No shot which would go in should hit the post instead or vice versa.

However, I'm as much still very much in favour of any setting which allows to customize the game experience in terms of difficulty as well, even more as nobody is forced to use it. Then it just allows the people who like to have it to make use of that which goes at nobody's expense at all.

As long as the effect is simple, what's wrong with it?

Therefore I like the suggestion as much as I still do like my own ideas from the other thread :thup:

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FML can not be compared to FM. With the exception of starting database and match engine, it was a completely different world.

But the principal is the same. At the end of the day we are playing a game. It's a simulation but only up to a point. Let's not get carried away by believing we are all football managers. We aren't. All of us are at the end of the day finding a way to exploit the AI and defeat it. Some to a great degree and some to a lesser but in essence that's all we are doing.

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Incidentally, something as simple as adding and removing attributes won't actually have much of an effect anyway.

People are already losing when they're Chelsea or Man City. Having boosted players won't make any difference to the difficulty for these players as it's their interaction with the game that is causing them to lose, not the abilities of the players they have.

As for it providing difficulties, I'm already winning everything with teams full of 18-20 year olds whose attributes are considerably worse, on average, than the teams around me. Working with players a little worse again won't make much difference to me.

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But the principal is the same. At the end of the day we are playing a game. It's a simulation but only up to a point. Let's not get carried away by believing we are all football managers. We aren't. All of us are at the end of the day finding a way to exploit the AI and defeat it. Some to a great degree and some to a lesser but in essence that's all we are doing.

That proves your approach to the game is what is causing you problems, not the difficulty of the game itself.

If you're trying to find ways to exploit the AI, you will lose most of the time. If you're trying to find ways to make your team play in a realistic manner that suits the players at your disposal, you'll get much more success.

You don't try to break the world, you try to understand the world.

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But the principal is the same. At the end of the day we are playing a game. It's a simulation but only up to a point. Let's not get carried away by believing we are all football managers. We aren't. All of us are at the end of the day finding a way to exploit the AI and defeat it. Some to a great degree and some to a lesser but in essence that's all we are doing.

Never wise to speak for everybody without consulting them first.

I never look for ways to exploit the ME or AI. I'm not even consciously looking to defeat the AI, I just play the game & get equal amounts of enjoyment from a relegation battle, a title challenge or mid-table mediocrity.

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Never wise to speak for everybody without consulting them first.

I never look for ways to exploit the ME or AI. I'm not even consciously looking to defeat the AI, I just play the game & get equal amounts of enjoyment from a relegation battle, a title challenge or mid-table mediocrity.

Perhaps exploit is the wrong word. What I meant is at the end of the day we are trying to defeat a computer programme nothing more.

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There already is a difficulty level. You want an easy game, manage Barca, Man Utd, Man City, Real Madrid, etc. You want a hard game, pic a low div side.

I don't understand adding/diminishing attributes based on a difficulty level. So on easy their attributes are better, but wouldn't all the rest of the clubs have the same bonus. If they don't then you are cheating. If you enjoy winning all the time then pick a team that dominates it's respective league.

The game really isn't that difficult and to make it harder all SI need to do is improve AI squad building. Then you have a game that is equally as difficult/competitive in 2040 than it was in 2012.

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I can see both points of view here and I agree with both, but at the end of the day, this is probably a waste of time for you Stephanie. I really can't see SI implimenting this, especially when you have tools like the FM Editor, FMRTE and Genie Scout available to you.

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There already is a difficulty level. You want an easy game, manage Barca, Man Utd, Man City, Real Madrid, etc. You want a hard game, pic a low div side.

I don't understand adding/diminishing attributes based on a difficulty level. So on easy their attributes are better, but wouldn't all the rest of the clubs have the same bonus. If they don't then you are cheating. If you enjoy winning all the time then pick a team that dominates it's respective league.

The game really isn't that difficult and to make it harder all SI need to do is improve AI squad building. Then you have a game that is equally as difficult/competitive in 2040 than it was in 2012.

That's why it's called a difficulty setting. So if you play on the harder levels are you anti-cheating???

As with making the game easier by being Man U etc... Well FM is different than other games in that we all tend to support one club and more often than not we want to manage that club. So that is a bit of a glib response.

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I can see both points of view here and I agree with both, but at the end of the day, this is probably a waste of time for you Stephanie. I really can't see SI implimenting this, especially when you have tools like the FM Editor, FMRTE and Genie Scout available to you.

You are probably right. Hence why I did ask for other options people would like to see and also asked for people NOT to post the usual "change is not good".

It was mean't to be an idea for options thread not a lets flame every idea thread.

The game at the moment does not lend itself well to people who don't have as much hands on their time as they used to. It's OK asking for in-game help from assistants etc but lets be honest. Staff have always been to a point irrelevant and unhelpful.

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That's why it's called a difficulty setting. So if you play on the harder levels are you anti-cheating???

As with making the game easier by being Man U etc... Well FM is different than other games in that we all tend to support one club and more often than not we want to manage that club. So that is a bit of a glib response.

Far from the real truth, you are only speaking for people that play like you. I think you would probably get more of a positive response if you looked beyond yourself and people like you and recognised the wider range of people.

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There are better ways of making the AI more difficult than artificially boosting things/implementing rubber-band AI.

Would it be a good thing? If done properly, I don't see why not.

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I don't really understand where's problem with changing difficulty of the game by boosting attributes or budget. If somebody wants to play super easy then let them have possibilty to choose it. It's like wondering why other people use downloaded tactics, for me it's ruining whole game, but others enjoy this way of playing.

Personally i think game should be harder or more realistic and it should be implemented in standard mode.

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There already is a difficulty level. You want an easy game, manage Barca, Man Utd, Man City, Real Madrid, etc. You want a hard game, pic a low div side.
That's not really true though, is it? The game mimics reality. If the game is "easier" to play with a big side, why do Real Madrid/Barcelona/Manchester United bother to hire the best managers? If it was so easy to manage these clubs, why don't they just get Paul Ince or Tony Adams?

The reason is simple - it's actually really hard to manage top sides and it should be reflected in-game. This is why only the best managers, like Ferguson and Mourinho, manage them.

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I don't really understand where's problem with changing difficulty of the game by boosting attributes or budget. If somebody wants to play super easy then let them have possibilty to choose it. It's like wondering why other people use downloaded tactics, for me it's ruining whole game, but others enjoy this way of playing.

Personally i think game should be harder or more realistic and it should be implemented in standard mode.

Exactly my point.

The way I have suggest it. It doesn't affect anyone who wants to play the game as it's intended. If people thought the game was great as it was we wouldn't have so many downloading other people tactics or editing the game.

I'm only asking for an option in MY game.

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Surely you can see why the inclusion of such a feature would fly in the face of everything SI are trying to do with the game?

FM has always been about a realistic footballing world which the user can insert themselves into and interact with.

Everything that is added to the game has to make sense from a realism point of view. If it doesn't, then they betray their own ethos and basically become FIFA Manager.

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I think the OP is a terrible idea.

There are already tools in the game for making it easier including using the editor, by letting your assistant manager have more control or simply by choosing a high reputation at the start of the game.

If you want a game that takes up less time, perhaps you need the handheld version? Or for those without handheld devices, perhaps SI should release the handheld version for PC users as a kind of FM Lite version?

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Exactly my point.

The way I have suggest it. It doesn't affect anyone who wants to play the game as it's intended. If people thought the game was great as it was we wouldn't have so many downloading other people tactics or editing the game.

I'm only asking for an option in MY game.

It will affect the amount of work SI have to put in to implement it, so in turn will affect the rest of us.

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I think the OP is a terrible idea.

There are already tools in the game for making it easier including using the editor, by letting your assistant manager have more control or simply by choosing a high reputation at the start of the game.

If you want a game that takes up less time, perhaps you need the handheld version? Or for those without handheld devices, perhaps SI should release the handheld version for PC users as a kind of FM Lite version?

You cannot be serious! [/McEnroe] :D

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It will affect the amount of work SI have to put in to implement it, so in turn will affect the rest of us.

I would suggest that casual players buy the game more than the die-hards. I would also suggest that the die-hards tend to be here on the forums.

Take too much notice of the die-hards and it becomes a cult with a lot less sales than they could otherwise achieve.

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I let my assistant do most of the stuff for me, he's incredibly competent.

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I am serious. I don't like doing team talks so allow my assistant to take them. I feel he does a better job than me, therefore is making my game easier. Also saves a little time. Likewise he picks friendlies for me, handles contracts for my youth players, chooses youth candidates, etc. All makes the game easier and saves time.

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How about the options to "disable" certain players stats aswell as attributes.

Total attribute masking, but also for example:

- Player Average rating (therefore scrutinizing players match performance would be critical)

- Player morale (find other ways of monitoring this: matches, training, chat with player)

- Player Passing, Tackling, Dribbling stats etc

- Condition (a manager irl wouldn't be given a % showing player condition, so would need to monitor matches, training etc)

This meaning you would not be given this information on a plate, but would have to monitor match performance, training performance etc to make the decisions in the game - would maybe make you feel more like a proper football manager, and the challenge would be greater.

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I would suggest that casual players buy the game more than the die-hards. I would also suggest that the die-hards tend to be here on the forums.

Take too much notice of the die-hards and it becomes a cult with a lot less sales than they could otherwise achieve.

So are you a die-hard and therefore SI shouldn't take notice of your ideas??

I myself am a casual gamer these days, so would much prefer my FM Lite idea to be available for the masses whilst still preferring to play the full game myself as I need the immersive experience.

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That's not really true though, is it? The game mimics reality. If the game is "easier" to play with a big side, why do Real Madrid/Barcelona/Manchester United bother to hire the best managers? If it was so easy to manage these clubs, why don't they just get Paul Ince or Tony Adams?

The reason is simple - it's actually really hard to manage top sides and it should be reflected in-game. This is why only the best managers, like Ferguson and Mourinho, manage them.

If FM was that real then none of us would be able to play the game. There is a point where SI would draw a line. Why make it so realistic no one but managers in real life can play the game.

I just don't feel attribute increases/decreases is the way forward. The editor is there for people that find the game too hard. Add a sugar daddy, increase your budget, increase your rep and you will find the game easier.

Bad FM players will still lose on easy. Their players will be better than any other in the league but their tactics still suck at the end of the day.

Maybe a better tutorial and guide to the tactics is needed. Or, maybe a 'no sack' option for people that struggle and don't want to start over. If SI make assistant managers more useful then there really isn't a need for a difficulty level tbh. Veteran players will simply just not allow their assistant manager to take control of most tasks.

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Exactly my point.

The way I have suggest it. It doesn't affect anyone who wants to play the game as it's intended. If people thought the game was great as it was we wouldn't have so many downloading other people tactics or editing the game.

I'm only asking for an option in MY game.

The option is there. Use an editor.

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Wouldn't this affect player values/reputation etc? If you had cheat mode enabled and all your players have +3, they are likely to be very good in the league they're in, leading to out of the ordinary high rating displays, causing rep and value to increase. So you sell them when they receive interest for being very good (when they're not really as good), make a profit, and then buy some lowly player who's not very good, but when he signs his attributes are pushed up +3? Then do it all again? A good money making scheme I suppose.

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If FM was that real then none of us would be able to play the game. There is a point where SI would draw a line. Why make it so realistic no one but managers in real life can play the game.

This is always a nonsense argument point, and it's only used by people who are unable to argue the point any further.

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Unfortunately the OP is indicative of modern life, I want it easy.

There is a less time consuming FM on the market, it's called FMH.

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I disagree horribly with any artificial ways of boosting game difficulty.

The game should be made as hard/realistic as possible by default, and then the user is offered different layers of help, via their backroom staff and board, that makes it easier for them. That's the only acceptable way I've ever seen suggested for it to work.

I agree completely. A strategy game such as FM has to be realistic, it's the player that makes the game easier or harder as he plays it.

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