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Striker positions & footedness


When playing with more than one ST, how do you position them in the central slots?  

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  1. 1. When playing with more than one ST, how do you position them in the central slots?

    • Position STs in slots matching with their strongest foot (e.g. right footed to STRC)
      16
    • Position STs in slots opposite to their strongest foot (e.g. right footed to STLC)
      14
    • Prioritise my best goalscoring striker to play on the side of his strongest foot
      10
    • Prioritise my best goalscoring striker to play on the side opposite to his strongest foot
      11
    • Don't think it makes any difference
      18
    • It depends on the strikers attributes or my tactics - please state in the thread!
      5
    • Other - please state in the thread!
      2


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I was reading a thread in GD today (see here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/246601-Two-strikers-up-front-right-footed-right-side) and found it to be quite an interesting question. So I thought I would start this thread in the tactics forum to get some in depth discussion going and read people's opinions and thoughts on this subject. I've also included a poll for fun and to see what the dominant opinion will be.

Essentially the question is about playing with more than one striker and your tactical (or otherwise) decision on how to position those strikers in the central slots based on footedness. Do you think footedness makes any difference? Do you like your strikers to cut in and strike across goal? Do you like your strikers to be able to work the channels and cross into the box? Do you think it really makes any difference? And I'm sure that there are all kinds of other questions that would be relevant to this discussion.

I'll give my thoughts below. First of all, I want to take the example of a right footed player in the STRC slot. He is slightly more likely to receive the ball into his preferred foot when placed on this side, which is an immediate advantage. When shooting to the right side, he can open up his body and take the shot easily with the inside of his right foot. However, when shooting across the goal to the left side, which given his position may be where he is often looking to shoot, any shot is likely to be slightly less effective from the inside of his right foot given that it will be potentially curling away from the goal. Coming forward to shoot at goal, he also has less chance to curl the ball from his right of centre position. He does, however, have the chance to work the channels and crossing on his stronger foot is always an option.

When the same player is placed in the STLC slot, the player is slightly less likely to receive the ball into his preferred foot. He does, however, have more chance to take dangerous shots or to play forward balls to the right by opening up his body and using the inside of his right foot. This is clearly an advantage over placing him in the other slot, in my opinion. When coming forward to shoot at goal from range, he may well have the chance now to curl a shot across the goal. Cutting inside and shooting across the goalkeeper is always very dangerous. Other options may be more challenging for him due to the emphasis being placed on his weaker foot, particularly running the channels.

Now we do know that the match engine does quite accurately represent footedness, especially for wide players who will act quite differently when you put them on the opposite flank to their preferred foot. Naturally, a player who is strong on both feet has an advantage in the case I am describing. It would be a considerable advantage to have a forward who is very strong on both feet.

You could make the argument that any great striker, regardless of footedness, should have excellent anticipation and off the ball movement, and therefore he will get into good goalscoring positions regardless of which position he is placed in. So perhaps if this is your thought, you might feel that it doesn't really matter at all.

I'm interested to hear people's opinions on this so please do vote in the poll and definitely leave some thoughts in the thread. And if anyone wants to develop the discussion further to talk about the partnerships and footedness in central defence or central midfield then I would also be interested to read the discussion on this. :)

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Something else worth noting and that could be discussed in this thread is this quotation from the game's hints and tips file:

Sometimes placing a left footed striker in the right attacking slot increases the chances that he will score goals. Swapping strikers also makes them hard to man-mark.

I forgot to add a 'swapping strikers' option in the poll but oh well!

Although I've never liked swapping strikers on FM because they also swap settings. If it was possible to have your strikers swap positions but retain their settings/roles/duties etc. then I would definitely use that feature but unfortunately it doesn't work that way (despite the fact that many of us - myself included - have asked for it for many years now)!

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I've posted a lot about this on the thread in thread in the general section, but for me the answer has to be that it depends on the tactics. For example in a classic 4-4-2 in which you try to attack through the channels, it's better to have strikers with their preferred foot on the outside. Otherwise if you have it the reverse way, you've set-up to play with width, but as soon as the forwards get on the ball, they're funneled centrally onto their preferred foot, which wastes the forward endeavors of the wingers. Also, as the norm for crossing is to float crosses for the far post, but drill them for the near post, if you have a left footed forward on the STRC position, then when the right winger sends a ball in to him from the right flank, it will be on his non-preferred foot.

Conversely, if you're playing a 4-3-1-2, a diamond midfield with two upfront, or a 3-4-1-2, or essentially anything with 2 forwards and an attacking midfielder playing in behind them, then in that case, the play will be more narrow and through ball based, in which having two strikers with their preferred foot facing the inside would be preferential.

So it is really all down to what ways you want to attack your opposition. Both ways have their benefits, there's no clearly better way than the other.

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in two striker formations I prefer to have two right footed players upfront when possible (even if a left footer on the bench can be handy), I explained why in this thread, footing probably mathers less when you have one dude upfront and in that case I would look more at attributes unless I had something very specific in mind for my striker

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I prioritise my best creative striker to play on the side opposite to his strongest foot...a DLF plays way better this way...ideally I like my right-footed (say) poacher on the left but I'm much keener to get my DLF playing well...what's more I put my DLF on forward runs often so he'll also get more goals playing on the left (if he's right-footed)

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I like my strikers to be playing on their strongest side in combination with their strongest foot.

My teams tend to hit a lot of balls down channels out wide and I need the strikers, or wingers, to be able to collect the ball and get a dangerous cross into the opponents goal area. If they have to double back on themselves in order to hit a cross, this halts all fluid motion.

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Best goalscoring striker playing opposite to his best foot.

I have my best striker pushed right up against the defensive line, the other a little deeper, which leads to two very common situations. First, the star man has the ball and beats his marker with the ball on his best foot, leading to him being 1 on 1 directly in front of goal, second, the deeper striker (or a midfielder) plays the ball in behind the deeper strikers marker, and the star man can get into the space with his better foot leading for either a first time shot, or easy control and shot.

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Conversely, if you're playing a 4-3-1-2, a diamond midfield with two upfront, or a 3-4-1-2, or essentially anything with 2 forwards and an attacking midfielder playing in behind them, then in that case, the play will be more narrow and through ball based, in which having two strikers with their preferred foot facing the inside would be preferential.

Or would it perhaps be better in that case to have them on their preferred side so that they can add extra width by moving into the channels?

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I actually went away and did some experimenting with the FM match engine.

I decided to pick a team with a forward who has a clear preference for one foot over the other and was also more of an advanced forward who would play your 'number 9' kind of role. In the end, I went with Chelsea and decided to experiment with Fernando Torres (he has a 'reasonable' left foot and a 'very strong' right foot).

I used a basic 4-4-2 made with the TC and played the same match (opening game of the season versus Wolves) several times with Torres on the right and then on the left. The line-up was the same and I asked the assistant to do team talks. I basically changed nothing else. I then made observations and also noted down statistics to try to get an average over several games with which to compare his performance on the right and on the left.

First of all, the most obvious statistic that I uncovered was that Torres scored significantly more goals when playing on the left than on the right. Obviously this is not a perfect experiment but he definitely seemed far more effective in scoring goals when in the left of centre position.

Other statistics were pretty much the same in both positions. He averaged the same number of passes, completed passes and a similar amount of key passes. He made about the same amount of crosses but had a very slightly better success rate from the right (as you'd probably expect). He seemed to make more runs past opponents on the left side but it didn't look like a really significant statistic. His average shots versus shots on target was exactly the same on both sides.

The goals were interesting, all but one being scored with his right foot. The majority of goals were actually scored in very central positions, with very few cutting in from one sides versus the other.

When playing left of centre, there was a general tendency to move centrally and to get the ball on to his right foot. I saw few crossing moments in the match highlights. On a couple of occasions, I saw highlights of Torres down the left flank and struggling to do anything with the ball. Torres has the PPM 'moves into channels' but he hardly did this at all whilst playing left of centre.

When playing right of centre, he did move into channels more often and I observed some better crosses in the match highlights. However, as above, there was a general tendency to take up central positions as a priority. The support forward (deeper lying forward) was sitting in deeper and therefore Torres, as the advanced forward, was able to take up more central positions and even to end up looking as though he was playing in the right of centre slot at times.

Something worth noting is that the DLF (in this case, also a right footer with 'reasonable' left foot) did not score whilst playing right of centre but did manage to score when playing on the left.

Any conclusion from this would have to be tentative as it wasn't a great experiment. However, it seems that, in this case, the general play of the right footed forward was the same in either central striker slot. It did also seem that the striker was more lethal in terms of scoring goals when playing left of centre but it would need to be tested over more games. As others have said above, it would generally make sense if this was the case. Finally, it seems that regardless of playing in the right or left of centre slots, the more advanced forward will generally look to take up central positions ahead of the supporting forward who will drop deep. Also, the striker prioritised using his stronger foot the majority of the time. So make of that what you will! :)

Anyone else fancy trying some experiments? :D

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I was interested to read that post Crouchy and you seemed to conclude that Torres was more effective on the left...I'm certain that a right-footed poacher plays better on the left so it's interesting that you're tentatively coming to the same conclusion for an advanced forward who you'd expect to do more passing and crossing which he might do better if he was on the right

"Something worth noting is that the DLF (in this case, also a right footer with 'reasonable' left foot) did not score whilst playing right of centre but did manage to score when playing on the left"...my experience is that the DLF really struggles to score unless you have him on forward runs often...this is very pronounced...with the default settings you're forever getting messages about his goal drought...put him on forward runs often and the same guy will get 1 goal per 2 games if he's on the correct side...with a right-footed DLF on the left you see him playing lots of through balls to the poacher...if you play him on the right he knocks it back to the midfield much more...sometimes he can turn and play a forward pass but his through balls are much reduced...so if you have 2 right-footers I'm convinced they play much better with the DLF on the left

IMO for a worthwhile experiment you'd need to consider the overall results of the team rather than just how Torres does...you have 2 forwards so you need to think about them both equally...but I can save you the pain...I've done it already...not formally and not with results I can quote...but I promise you can take my word for it with the DLF + Poacher combo anyway...what's more I've played a decent amount with TM (support) + Poacher and I'm reasonably sure the same thing applies

forget about the best goalscorer...it's the guy providing the chances you need to worry about

sometimes I drop the DLF back to the AMC position if he can play there...or to be more precise I'd drop him to AMCR and play the poacher at SCL...now they play better the other way round...the right-footed AM plays better on the right because he's facing forward more often when he gets the ball or else he's got more time to turn...then he has the right-footed poacher on the left and everything's sweet

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Based on the comments here then I'm looking for a DLF(L) that is right/twin footed with a left footed pacey poacher on the left? (or vice versa)

Interestingly, last season I had two outstanding strikers and between them they score somewhere close to 80 goals in all competitions. One was essentially gods gift to an Inside Forwards role (though I play him as FC) and the other the same, but can do just about anything infront of goal (so he should at 35mil). Now, whilst I can not remember the exact stats I do recall both players having better games in the FC® role. I remember struggling with my Poacher during the early part of the season, so I switched him around a little and played him on the right and the started scoring. I think he then went on to play in the left role also and do well, so it may have been a confidence/consistancy thing.

I'm not sure that I look at it as deep as you chaps have unless I am seeing a problem. My setup is generally dictated by the formation and the position of each player. I like my players staggered. The best example I can give of this would be to compare the central DMF left positions with the DMF right positions. My right positions tend to have the slightly higher mentality, thus the (X)CR positions are always a little more advanced.

If there is a clear problem with this, then I will switch the central positions around, which I think I did last season (last season was about a month ago).

In reality, if I were to think about it more, it would come down to what you want the players doing. It seems to be that playing opposite sides/feet, you are narrowing your 'team playing' options ie... passing/crossing to another player, therefore creating a more selfish player.

If said player is a striker out and out (Defoe for example), then playing him on the left might just be the best option. If, however, you have a creator up front, such as my player (I really will try and get his name) then I might play him on his strong side so that he has more options.

Like most things in this game.... you can take it to the n'th degree..... If what i stated above is even slightly correct, should you also consider a players teamwork?

Regards

LAM

*edit*

Just looking at the poll results after I posted my view. There is a strong percentage in "Doesn't make a difference". I believe it absolutely does make a difference. It's just whether or not we are good enough managers to notice it!

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When using two STs I like one to play a little deeper, make runs from deep, and sometimes stray to the flanks; and the other usually plays more up front (poacher) and doesn't roam that much. Besides, all my forwards are right-footed.

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My current setup with a 442 is that I have a DLP or a AP and a CM(s or d) in midfield - and a DLF and a Poacher or AF up front. I always set up DLP and Poacher to be on the same side of pitch - therefore the DLP, when he tracks back to get the ball it creates sort of an triangle - DLP/AP slightly advanced from the midfield, DLF slighty dropping back away from the forward line, leaving the space in which poacher will (hopefully) advance between the opposition CBs to receive the through ball (there is string of big ifs along the way, with me currently playing in Blue SQ Prem - the players are struggling to adhere to their instructions).

all this kind of makes it difficult to take into account players preferred foot - partly because their skill with their "good" foot is average at best - but mostly because it would need a lot of shuffling which I find tedious. I haven't noticed that big of a difference when I landed two Poachers with similar stats and rotated them - both of them scored similar amount of goals, and more to the point - in a similar way.

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I almost always play a central single striker on advanced forward role so this is a non-issue for me. :D

OK but your single striker doesn't have to be positioned centrally...you could maybe get more goals if you tried skewing your striker and AMC (assuming you have one)

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I've always had the idea that if a player is good enough, he'll score goals regardless of where you put him.

Generally I like to have the deeper, more creative striker to be in the spot opposite to his strongest foot. For instance I'll have Rooney playing in the STLC. I allow my strikers to roam so many times striker right of center will move over to the left so he will get chances to score from both angles.

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Interesting. I've recently switched to a narrow diamond with my first choice strike pairing both being right footed. I'm playing the creative one as a treq on the left, with the goalscoring one as an Adv F on the right. It seems to work well - the one on the left is dropping deep and playing killer through balls, whilst the one on the right is moving into channels and getting in crosses occasionally.

Although I think it could work equally well if they switched sides.

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OK but your single striker doesn't have to be positioned centrally...you could maybe get more goals if you tried skewing your striker and AMC (assuming you have one)

I used that briefly in FM11, and eventually reverted back to central positions, I don't remember exactly why... but have had more success since.

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