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Liverpool Thread 2012/13

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Do you actually watch him play? He comes deep so often to come and get the ball with his back to goal. Then when he has the chance turns defenders and makes his move. His goal against Newcastle shows he can play in a style more similar to Torres but he chooses not to. I think playin alongside someone who is constantly looking to make a move behind the defence would open up a lot of space for him to work in.

Also how is the system currently working? We are 12th in the league. Not sure how you can see it as working at the moment.

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The system works, we just need barcelona's XI to move up the table :D

Looking at our starting XI, there are only about 5 players who I'm satisfied with atm: Agger, Skrtel (just), Johnson, Lucas and Suarez. The rest imo aren't good enough to push us for 4th yet (either because they're too young, past their best, or simply not good enough, or in Reina's case, horribly out of form).

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The system works, we just need barcelona's XI to move up the table :D

Looking at our starting XI, there are only about 5 players who I'm satisfied with atm: Agger, Skrtel (just), Johnson, Lucas and Suarez. The rest imo aren't good enough to push us for 4th yet (either because they're too young, past their best, or simply not good enough, or in Reina's case, horribly out of form).

Agree with that although if Reina gets back to form he is more than good enough. I'd also give Stevie a chance further up the pitch, probably on the right as he doesn't seem comfortable with this system. People seem to have been brainwashed by Rodgers and the club to a certain extent. Divinity having a dig at me for wanting Dalglish to have stated on as an example. Dalglish finished 8th with us last season and took us to two finals. We are currently 12 th and out of the trophy we won last season. Fair enough give Rodgers time, I'm more than willing to stick with him but people are treating him as some sort of tactical genius when at the moment he has achieved next to nothing with us.

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Certain comments in this thread make this place more of a joke on a daily basis.

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Imagine a wide forward ever scoring 25 goals in the Premier League... it'll never happen.... oh hang on it already has.

If you can get a 20 goal a season striker to play centre, you will still get 20 goals also from wide Suarez, especially based on the way the forward 3 "should" be playing (eg interchangably).

We still set up quite rigidly at present, but I think that is because he we haven't developed well enough to be patient and pass teams to death.

It's going to take a while though... have patience and be glad there is a plan in place rather than the horrid mess of last season and the one before.

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mark my words if we sign walcott he will turn into another over payed flop! no more English flops!

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No, But foreign flops are cheaper and you can generally sell them on with little trouble.

No one wants to sign players that don't work out but if you have a limited transfer budget, budget smart.

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A reported £8m on Walcott wouldnt bother me at all.

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Walcott has far better resale potential if it doesn't work out.

will he tho ?

we give him a 5 year 100K contract and he flops badly here who buys him then ? The top English clubs don't buy mid table teams failed players and the rest of the Prem can't afford his wages.

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He's hardly a flop now is he. He would be a solid buy and a damsight better than the likes of Downing.

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Didn't realise we are being linked with a move for Al Habsi in January.

I havent heard that one.

He is only good penalties...

I think he is a little better than that :).

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I think he is overrated... but he is good at penalties :D

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Would love for us to sign a striker of Huntelaar's finishing ability.

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Would love for us to sign a striker of Huntelaar's finishing ability.
isnt that sort of the only thing he does well thought? w/o support or creativity around him, then Huntelaar would probably do about as much as Borini have done so far for Liverpool

also keep in mind that Huntelaar failed to live up to expectations at both Real Madrid and AC Milan and that both those clubs sold him for less then they payed to sign him, its not unthinkable that he would struggle maintain his current goalscoring form in a more defensive league then the Eradivise/Bundesliga, particularly in squad that only have one creative attacking player who is ready for consistant first team football

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I was about to bother explaining to richardson how a false 9 coming deep to pick up the ball is very different to an attacking midfielder or wide forward having the ball played to them to run at the defence, but then I saw his brainwashed comment and that pretty much summed it up. He's still sperming over two cup finals and an 8th place. :D

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isnt that sort of the only thing he does well thought? w/o support or creativity around him, then Huntelaar would probably do about as much as Borini have done so far for Liverpool

also keep in mind that Huntelaar failed to live up to expectations at both Real Madrid and AC Milan and that both those clubs sold him for less then they payed to sign him, its not unthinkable that he would struggle maintain his current goalscoring form in a more defensive league then the Eradivise/Bundesliga, particularly in squad that only have one creative attacking player who is ready for consistant first team football

his all round game for Schalke and Netherlands has been fine, yeah he's mainly in the box (exactly what we need) but it's not like he can't pass or anything, we are a very creative team outside the box, he is the bit in the box we are needing.

he didn't do awfully at either club, he just wasn't league/CL winning standard, we aren't in a position to be getting people like higuain/ benzema/ibra etc, so it's kind of a moot point, he's also arguably better now than then, i wouldn't be worried about him performaing anymore than any other play if we got him.

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his all round game for Schalke and Netherlands has been fine, yeah he's mainly in the box (exactly what we need) but it's not like he can't pass or anything, we are a very creative team outside the box, he is the bit in the box we are needing.

Not really true. Only one team in the top 12 has created less clear cut chances than we have. Creativity is lacking somewhat - Sterling and Suso are young but in truth aren't actually creating multiple opportunities per match.

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I was about to bother explaining to richardson how a false 9 coming deep to pick up the ball is very different to an attacking midfielder or wide forward having the ball played to them to run at the defence, but then I saw his brainwashed comment and that pretty much summed it up. He's still sperming over two cup finals and an 8th place. :D

I understand a false 9, I just don't think we're good enough to play it. I also dont think Suarez is suited to it too much in my opinion. What we lack is goals, therefore I think we need to get somebody in the Huntelaar mould. Allow Suarez more time and space and help him out by being clinical in front of goal. The false 9 is just the flavour of the month and will not be used too much in a few years more than likely as the game keeps evolving. I personally would prefer us to keep it simple for now and improve on 12 th position.

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'Keep it simple' was the Dalglish mantra. That's what results in 4-4-2, knocking long balls, no creativity. It's not a simple game any more when it comes to tactics. Calling tactical evolution 'flavour of the month' is ridiculous. Bet when people used to play 5 forwards they thought the same thing when people reverted to more than 2-3 in midfield.

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'Keep it simple' was the Dalglish mantra. That's what results in 4-4-2, knocking long balls, no creativity. It's not a simple game any more when it comes to tactics. Calling tactical evolution 'flavour of the month' is ridiculous. Bet when people used to play 5 forwards they thought the same thing when people reverted to more than 2-3 in midfield.

Where have I said go to 442 and long balls? Rafa's system was much more simple than one with a false 9. You had a solid back 5 with the full backs pushing up the pitch, mascherano as your anchorman in midfield, xabi playmaking, Stevie in an advanced role, nando trying to get in behind and your wingers pressuring and cutting inside.

Relatively simple, I know it's more complex than that but that is basically what we played like. I'm just bored of everyone talking about the "system", we are a club that is massively under achieving and I personally think Brendan is trying to do too much too soon. I really want him to do well here but for me he just needs to maybe make the system slightly less complex and get back to the basics. Stevie doesn't look half the player at the minute, for me we should be building the formation around him and Suarez until we can invest in the squad.

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Not really true. Only one team in the top 12 has created less clear cut chances than we have. Creativity is lacking somewhat - Sterling and Suso are young but in truth aren't actually creating multiple opportunities per match.

we don't create clear cut chances because there is no one to lay the ball in the box off to. if Suarez or Sterling wiggles their way past 3 players then has to shoot through 3 other players or from a tight angle beacuse he has no one in the box to pass to then that's not a clear cut chance, if he can lay it off to a strike partner 12 yards out and with room to shoot then it is. that's what we're missing, and why we aren't converting our passing, possession and creativity in to chances.

in fact Shelvey's chance against newcastle is a great example of this and highlights the difference between creativity and creating clear cut chances. Suarez is forever getting in those positions with no support and nothing happens, but with someone willing to make that run into the box it changed from nothing but nice play by Suarez, to a clear cut chance. put a better, more experienced finisher there and it's a goal.

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we don't create clear cut chances because there is no one to lay the ball in the box off to. if Suarez or Sterling wiggles their way past 3 players then has to shoot through 3 other players or from a tight angle beacuse he has no one in the box to pass to then that's not a clear cut chance, if he can lay it off to a strike partner 12 yards out and with room to shoot then it is. that's what we're missing, and why we aren't converting our passing, possession and creativity in to chances.

in fact Shelvey's chance against newcastle is a great example of this and highlights the difference between creativity and creating clear cut chances. Suarez is forever getting in those positions with no support and nothing happens, but with someone willing to make that run into the box it changed from nothing but nice play by Suarez, to a clear cut chance. put a better, more experienced finisher there and it's a goal.

Agree completely. We need a natural goal scorer. It's hard to coach timing and movement into someone's game. The likes of Huntelaar constantly take up the sorts of positions Shelvey did and that's why they get so many goals.

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Not a Huntelaar fan myself, I think we are more likely to get someone who can interchange as part of the front 3 rather than a sole striker. Hence buying Borini and interest in Dempsey.

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Not a Huntelaar fan myself, I think we are more likely to get someone who can interchange as part of the front 3 rather than a sole striker. Hence buying Borini and interest in Dempsey.

You might be right. I personally am a massive fan of Huntelaar so id love it if he came.

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I love how the solution of someone not getting on the end of Suarez' work is to replace Suarez and move him to another role.

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i love how you think moving Suarez 20 yards to the left or right, positions he natrually drifts to anyway, is dramatically going to change his contribution to the game

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Sizeable difference between starting there and drawing a defender out of position to there, but don't let that stop your being wrong. :thup:

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I love how the solution of someone not getting on the end of Suarez' work is to replace Suarez and move him to another role.
Not that you've ever shown any indication that you want to improve how you act on here. But have you considered stating your opinion or view in a post that isn't worded as a way of trying to mock or put other people down? I'm sure you get some kind of enjoyable buzz from doing it, but it would certainly be a nicer place in here for everyone else if, for example, your post simply said " I really think moving Suarez from the centre would be a bad move because ..." Rather than just mocking people with a view different to yours. I would certainly appreciate it. And I'm sure others would too.

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For once I actually agree I don't think moving Suarez is the fix for the lack of chances created, short term for me Gerrard right shelvey into midfield, longer term we need the wide players to make better runs into the box. I think in time Sterling and Suso will learn but we need better wide players for next few seasons.

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Sizeable difference between starting there and drawing a defender out of position to there, but don't let that stop your being wrong. :thup:

don't let the fact i've not said it's not a different role stop you from making up your own discussion points. it's similar enough that he can do it, and he's shown he's happy, at just as good, playing in the channels. he might not start there but he'll often take up that position on the pitch. as far as drawing a defender out of position, that's actually more effective when you're actually drawing him away from someone else, rather than the massive part of the pitch that none of our other players like to venture into.

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So replace the other players? Instead you're talking about MOVING our most effective player from his most effective position in order to have him run at players who already have a defined defensive shape to deal with it.

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What about dropping him deeper in a free role? That's all I've suggested. Start in the middle and do what he wants only with a poacher in front of him. I wouldn't mind him starting on the left and cutting inside to be honest.

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Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers leaves out Steven Gerrard and Luis Suarez from the squad that faces Anzhi Makhachkala in Moscow in the Europa League on Thursday.

Experienced players Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin, Daniel Agger, Jose Reina, Glen Johnson, Raheem Sterling and Jose Enrique have not travelled, ahead of Liverpool facing Chelsea in the Premier League on Sunday.

Jones

Wisdom, Skrtel, Coates, Robinson

Henderson, Shelvey

Suso

Assaidi Yesil Downing

???

what the **** is the bench going to be like?

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Might as well just forfeit the game, clearly have no interest in taking the competition remotely seriously and would rather just keep our small squad fit and available for league games.

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Think he had to take a weakened squad really, if not we could potentially get battered on Sunday.

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Might as well just forfeit the game, clearly have no interest in taking the competition remotely seriously and would rather just keep our small squad fit and available for league games.

If we had no interest in taking the competition seriously then why did we play a first team against them two weeks ago?

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If we had no interest in taking the competition seriously then why did we play a first team against them two weeks ago?
To try and give the fans a big home win because we're not doing too well on that front in the league.

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right, so you think they don't care about Europa at all, but played pretty much the entire first team 3 days before playing in Everton in the league, because we arent doing that well in the league?

which do you think the fans would care more about?

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The main problem here though is the travelling, if it had been a game in France we would've taken the likes of Suarez. Probably just doesn't want them doing all that travelling.

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Why do it then, and not do it again now? Is the Chelsea game more important than the Everton one? If we cared enough about the competition as a whole every game would have a half decent strength squad regardless of who we were playing in the league. A big home win before the derby would have been a big enough boost that it was worth the risk of a full strength team. The game this week clearly isn't worth that risk.

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