Liverpool Thread 2012/13

[DeafParrot]

Happy to admit that Allen has more about him than I'd thought btw. Obviously I knew how neat and tidy he was in possession, but he's better on the ball than I thought he was. There was a bit today where he did 2 or 3 quick turns on the edge of the Arsenal box and bought himself a few yards of space each time, was pretty awesome. He also has great anticipation defensively to intercept passes or instantly put pressure on the player receiving the pass, at least when the play is all in front of him.

The one major criticism I can level at him so far is that he has a habit of letting men drift pass him into the space in between the defence and midfield. If Lucas was fit it wouldn't be a problem, but when he is the one meant to be filling the Lucas role, its imperative that he tracks the run more often. It's cost us once or twice already, the Tevez goal against us where he was the guy closest to him and didn't spot the danger as Skrtel turned back towards goal (though obviously Skrtel's blind pass was by far the bigger contributing factor) and again a couple of times today.

Other than that though he and Sterling have been the brightest stars in the team so far.

[Divinity]

Would it be worth it to drop Reina for a few games.

Certainly at fault for second today and I thought he could have done better for the first.

Seriously, do people even bother actually looking at the goals before they write this rubbish? Let's have something a bit more detailed shall we?

Gerrard's utterly woeful pass gifts possession to Arsenal on the edge of their box. A quick ball forward to Cazorla sees Skrtel literally watch him run back, collect it, and turn in ten yards of space. Meanwhile, Skrtel's marking nothing but thin air on the right side of the defence whilst both Cazorla and Giroud advance at Agger. Skrtel's failure to follow his man and prevent him turning exposes an enormous gap between midfield and defence, and with Giroud running at angles to make himself the recipient of a pass, it only creates acres of space for Cazorla to run into, with the midfield unable to catch him. Podolski, who played the original ball into Cazorla, then runs into the space on the left after Skrtel bothers to begin to close down the middle (far too late, and that error compounds his earlier one by allowing space for Podolski to run into), and drills home a shot from EIGHT YARDS. Quite how people are expecting Reina to stop a shot from that close, when it's low down and into the far corner is beyond me.

For the second, it's simple: We have two banks of four with space between them, but there's little for the defence to be marking. Johnson's retreated so far he's marking the same man Skrtel is, and Downing's almost back into a full back's position. Arsenal literally play a simple triangle around Johnson, who's so flat footed he barely moves. Cazorla strolls past him after receiving the pass, and drills a shot hard and low from 8-9 yards out. Reina attempts to get down to it but can't in time, because it's hit so hard from so close.

The fault lies with the defence, not with the goalkeeper, who'd already pulled off a pair of great reaction saves earlier in the match. Seriously, I don't know if hating on Reina is just the in-thing right now, but blaming him for either goal is just ridiculous when the defence were so culpable for allowing Arsenal players to stroll into space.

[DeafParrot]

Maybe people expect Reina to save the first one because it actually hits his foot on the way in. Literally required the slightest of movement from him and he'd have kept it out.

The second I do think he's slightly unlucky with, but its the latest in a long line of poor goals conceded.

Obviously neither goal should have got to him in the first place, but the fact is they did, and he failed to deal with both of them. Again.

[Emersonlfc]

Where is Doni btw? Is he not back in Brazil or something?

[simplythebest92]

Seriously, do people even bother actually looking at the goals before they write this rubbish? Let's have something a bit more detailed shall we?

Gerrard's utterly woeful pass gifts possession to Arsenal on the edge of their box. A quick ball forward to Cazorla sees Skrtel literally watch him run back, collect it, and turn in ten yards of space. Meanwhile, Skrtel's marking nothing but thin air on the right side of the defence whilst both Cazorla and Giroud advance at Agger. Skrtel's failure to follow his man and prevent him turning exposes an enormous gap between midfield and defence, and with Giroud running at angles to make himself the recipient of a pass, it only creates acres of space for Cazorla to run into, with the midfield unable to catch him. Podolski, who played the original ball into Cazorla, then runs into the space on the left after Skrtel bothers to begin to close down the middle (far too late, and that error compounds his earlier one by allowing space for Podolski to run into), and drills home a shot from EIGHT YARDS. Quite how people are expecting Reina to stop a shot from that close, when it's low down and into the far corner is beyond me.

For the second, it's simple: We have two banks of four with space between them, but there's little for the defence to be marking. Johnson's retreated so far he's marking the same man Skrtel is, and Downing's almost back into a full back's position. Arsenal literally play a simple triangle around Johnson, who's so flat footed he barely moves. Cazorla strolls past him after receiving the pass, and drills a shot hard and low from 8-9 yards out. Reina attempts to get down to it but can't in time, because it's hit so hard from so close.

The fault lies with the defence, not with the goalkeeper, who'd already pulled off a pair of great reaction saves earlier in the match. Seriously, I don't know if hating on Reina is just the in-thing right now, but blaming him for either goal is just ridiculous when the defence were so culpable for allowing Arsenal players to stroll into space.

I said and maintain that Reinas was at some fault for the first. Lets not kid ourselves it was hardly a world class drill from Podolksi it was almost straight at Reina. The Pepe Reina of 2/3 years ago would have blocked that. Although I agree that Gerrard was 50% to blame and Johnson too for not tracking the run of Podolski.

the second for a goalkeeper of Pepe Reinas standard was embarrassing. The ball went straight through him and at an acute angle too. A top class keeper on form must get down to that even if theres a bit of pace on the ball. Yeah your right the defence never covered themselves in glory but I still expect my keeper to save it. Compare his reaction to the first he is furious that he has conceded this goal as its going through him

I just think Reina needs a wake up call thats hes not indispensible and this may help towards him regaining his top form of 2 years ago. Its not just a one off the Hearts goal?

You cant blame me for having high expectations of Reina but the last year or so we have seen a different goalkeeper, no doubt in my mind.

[Northeu]

It's not even bitching and moaning about the fact that we haven't spent 100 million pounds tho really it's the shocking state of the squad.

Having ONE senior CF in the entire squad is ridiculous, especially seeing as we Loaned out the other one. It's got to be Remembered Borini Only has 50 odd first team games to his name, it still makes him a baby in experience terms.

Limited budgets are one thing, Not fancying a player is another but leaving the squad how it is, is just us making another stupid mistake in a long line of them in recent years.

I'm not going to get into a pro Rafa rant but seeing as its been mentioned, Cisse and Barros weren't "Rafa players" but he made do with them and adapted his tactics to suit what he had and the budget we had. we didn't go out 4-2-3-1 from day one because we didn't have the players to play it, so as the squad evolved so did the system.

We bitched and moaned when sub standard Free and cheap transfers came in but some times that's what you need to do on a limited budget to fill out the squad.

[Divinity]

There probably are opportunities out there now in the transfer market for free agents (Maxi was certainly value), but I'm really at the stage where I'd like to see young players given a decent shot. Nobody's expecting top 4 anyway, so why not give the likes of Suso and Morgan a try. Give them a few games, see how they do - worst case scenario is they're not good enough, we're mid-table, but they've been in the shop window and can get us a decent fee to reinvest into the squad. I'd expect us to do business in January if Rodgers' comments are any guide, but until then we've really little to lose.

[Razzler]

Mikael Forssell

Roman Bednar

Brett Ormerod

David Connolly

James Beattie

Darius Vassell

James McFadden

Michael Owen

Emile Heskey

Ivan Klasnic

tbh you'd have none of them but it looks like maybe Owen. Rogers speaking out about wouldn't have let Carroll go if he knew the last day would have gone down like that. Might get a smacked wrist for that. Yet another pigs ear Liverpool have made out of that then.

Who the hell is David Connolly?

[PoolFan]

There probably are opportunities out there now in the transfer market for free agents (Maxi was certainly value), but I'm really at the stage where I'd like to see young players given a decent shot. Nobody's expecting top 4 anyway, so why not give the likes of Suso and Morgan a try. Give them a few games, see how they do - worst case scenario is they're not good enough, we're mid-table, but they've been in the shop window and can get us a decent fee to reinvest into the squad. I'd expect us to do business in January if Rodgers' comments are any guide, but until then we've really little to lose.

I agree, now is the time to give a few of the youngsters a game and see how they do. Let's be honest they can't do much worse.

[georginho_juventusygr]

Alessandro del Piero is available and won't ask as much as Drogba will.

[theboydonegood]

Seriously, do people even bother actually looking at the goals before they write this rubbish? Let's have something a bit more detailed shall we?

Gerrard's utterly woeful pass gifts possession to Arsenal on the edge of their box. A quick ball forward to Cazorla sees Skrtel literally watch him run back, collect it, and turn in ten yards of space. Meanwhile, Skrtel's marking nothing but thin air on the right side of the defence whilst both Cazorla and Giroud advance at Agger. Skrtel's failure to follow his man and prevent him turning exposes an enormous gap between midfield and defence, and with Giroud running at angles to make himself the recipient of a pass, it only creates acres of space for Cazorla to run into, with the midfield unable to catch him. Podolski, who played the original ball into Cazorla, then runs into the space on the left after Skrtel bothers to begin to close down the middle (far too late, and that error compounds his earlier one by allowing space for Podolski to run into), and drills home a shot from EIGHT YARDS. Quite how people are expecting Reina to stop a shot from that close, when it's low down and into the far corner is beyond me.

For the second, it's simple: We have two banks of four with space between them, but there's little for the defence to be marking. Johnson's retreated so far he's marking the same man Skrtel is, and Downing's almost back into a full back's position. Arsenal literally play a simple triangle around Johnson, who's so flat footed he barely moves. Cazorla strolls past him after receiving the pass, and drills a shot hard and low from 8-9 yards out. Reina attempts to get down to it but can't in time, because it's hit so hard from so close.

The fault lies with the defence, not with the goalkeeper, who'd already pulled off a pair of great reaction saves earlier in the match. Seriously, I don't know if hating on Reina is just the in-thing right now, but blaming him for either goal is just ridiculous when the defence were so culpable for allowing Arsenal players to stroll into space.

Cazorla picked up the ball on the edge of the D in Liverpool half in between the space between midfield and defence, around 15 yards from Skrtel in a position where you would not expect Skrtel to be especially with only agger around him and especially with us in possession of the ball. Had Skrtel been marking Cazorla on the edge of the D whilst agger was 10 yrds deeper marking Giroud that would have been horrible defending and a horrible defensive shape. If anything you would expect your deepest midfielder to screen that ball. The fault though lies with Gerrard in giving the ball away when the team was committed. Cazorla was playing between the lines between midfield and defence not an out and out striker. Certainly not Skrtel's man and if Skrtel had marked him tightly he (skrtel) would have been out of postion and Agger exposed.

Once he had the ball Skrtel could then not press him as Podolski was bursting down the left and had a run on the liverpool players. If Skrtel had pressed CArzorla could have either skipped past him or rolled the ball into Arsenal's left wing channel and Podolski would have been though on goal.

When Carzorla was carrying the ball ahead of him was Giroud, Agger and Skrtel. i.e it was 2 vs 2. Skrtel did the right thing, kept his shape and made the ball carrier make a decision and in that situation as a defender you always put the attacker in a position where they have to make a decision as that can lead to a mistake and backing off was perfectly acceptable as it kept him in the game and gave the other liverpool players the time to get back There was simply too much space around him to go charging at Cazorla.

If Skrtel had charged at the ball Cazorla could have skipped round him quite easily or passed it around him as he had loads of space all around him and in behind Skrtel. Then it would have been 2 vs 1.

The fault here is Gerrard for giving the ball away and then Glen Johnson for not tracking his man back.

Its quite ironic that you start a post slating others about not watching and then go on to post the most ill informed nonsense, you make Andy Townsend look like he knows what he is talking about.

[Razzler]

I don't see how Reina isn't at fault for that 2nd goal. It's hit at him and gone under his body. Shoud be saving that all day long

[Rafalution]

it's hit at him hard and low from 8yrds out. i'd expect a top keeper to make that save most of the time but not every time

[SRL88]

Reina was at fault for the second goal, we were well and truely beat by the better team yesterday. I am sick of hearing people talk about us not having a plan B, which in other words means Andy Carroll. He isnt here, he is gone, so lets move on!!!

3 games into the season is way to early to be judging anything to be fair.

[Rafalution]

it's quite weird atm, i've got this really big long term optimism and excitement about BR and the team, but are just so pissed about us not getting anyone in and our options up front that just makes me worry before every single game.

oh, and something seriously needs to happen with the stadium

[Divinity]

The fault here is Gerrard for giving the ball away and then Glen Johnson for not tracking his man back.

Its quite ironic that you start a post slating others about not watching and then go on to post the most ill informed nonsense, you make Andy Townsend look like he knows what he is talking about.

Congratulations entirely on proving my point, albeit tremendously ignorantly, because the vast majority of what you wrote was suppository **** based on a hypothetical that wasn't ever coming true. You're talking entirely about a process after Cazorla receives the ball, by which stage Skrtel's already out of position. Your "rolled the ball into Arsenal's left wing channel" comment is hilarious considering Podolski was about ten yards behind anyone else Cazorla wins the ball.

But again, thanks for proving my point - Reina wasn't remotely to blame, and the defence was.

[Kopite]

This open letter is cringeworthy. Should've just kept his mouth shut, everyone knows they messed up. We've heard all of it before. If he thinks we're close to the system we need to be operating then have a look at the league table and squad list and come back to us.

[theboydonegood]

Skrtel was in position for the whole move. Clueless

[Rafalution]

This open letter is cringeworthy. Should've just kept his mouth shut, everyone knows they messed up. We've heard all of it before. If he thinks we're close to the system we need to be operating then have a look at the league table and squad list and come back to us.

yeah really is quite embarrassing, clearly doesn't have an excuse why someone wasn't signed so just sent out a load of PR spin. However that's probably better than airing whatever went wrong in public, even if it means we'll never know if the issue was more with FSG or Ayre.

One thing I'm happy about is how clearly pissed off Rodgers is about the whole thing.

[PoolFan]

Here's an interesting read, a open letter to the fans from John Hendry. Whatever your opinion of FSG I am not hating this type of communication.

Liverpool Football Club's principal owner John W Henry has written the following open letter to supporters:

I am as disappointed as anyone connected with Liverpool Football Club that we were unable to add further to our strike force in this summer transfer window, but that was not through any lack of desire or effort on the part of all of those involved. They pushed hard in the final days of the transfer window on a number of forward targets and it is unfortunate that on this occasion we were unable to conclude acceptable deals to bring those targets in.

But a summer window which brought in three young, but significantly talented starters in Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin and Fabio Borini as well as two exciting young potential stars of the future - Samed Yesil and Oussama Assaidi - could hardly be deemed a failure as we build for the future.

Nor should anyone minimise the importance of keeping our best players during this window. We successfully retained Daniel Agger, Martin Skrtel and Luis Suarez. We greatly appreciate their faith and belief in the club. And we successfully negotiated new, long-term contracts with Luis and with Martin.

No one should doubt our commitment to the club. In Brendan Rodgers we have a talented young manager and we have valued highly his judgement about the make-up of the squad. This is a work in progress. It will take time for Brendan to instill his philosophy into the squad and build exactly what he needs for the long term.

The transfer policy was not about cutting costs. It was - and will be in the future - about getting maximum value for what is spent so that we can build quality and depth. We are avowed proponents of UEFA's Financial Fair Play agenda that was this week reiterated by Mr Platini - something we heartily applaud. We must comply with Financial Fair Play guidelines that ensure spending is tied to income. We have been successful in improving the commercial side of the club and the monies generated going forward will give us greater spending power in the coming years.

We are still in the process of reversing the errors of previous regimes. It will not happen overnight. It has been compounded by our own mistakes in a difficult first two years of ownership. It has been a harsh education, but make no mistake, the club is healthier today than when we took over.

Spending is not merely about buying talent. Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years. Our emphasis will be on developing our own players using the skills of an increasingly impressive coaching team. Much thought and investment already have gone into developing a self-sustaining pool of youngsters imbued in the club's traditions.

That ethos is to win. We will invest to succeed. But we will not mortgage the future with risky spending.

After almost two years at Anfield, we are close to having the system we need in place. The transfer window may not have been perfect but we are not just looking at the next 16 weeks until we can buy again: we are looking at the next 16 years and beyond. These are the first steps in restoring one of the world's great clubs to its proper status.

It will not be easy, it will not be perfect, but there is a clear vision at work.

We will build and grow from within, buy prudently and cleverly and never again waste resources on inflated transfer fees and unrealistic wages. We have no fear of spending and competing with the very best but we will not overpay for players.

We will never place this club in the precarious position that we found it in when we took over at Anfield. This club should never again run up debts that threaten its existence.

Most of all, we want to win. That ambition drives every decision. It is the Liverpool way. We can and will generate the revenues to achieve that aim. There will be short-term setbacks from time to time, but we believe we have the right people in place to bring more glory to Anfield.

Finally, I can say with authority that our ownership is not about profit. Contrary to popular opinion, owners rarely get involved in sports in order to generate cash. They generally get involved with a club in order to compete and work for the benefit of their club. It's often difficult. In our case we work every day in order to generate revenues to improve the club. We have only one driving ambition at Liverpool and that is the quest to win the Premier League playing the kind of football our supporters want to see. That will only occur if we do absolutely the right things to build the club in a way that makes sense for supporters, for us and for those who will follow us. We will deliver what every long-term supporter of Liverpool Football Club aches for.

[theboydonegood]

Congratulations entirely on proving my point, albeit tremendously ignorantly, because the vast majority of what you wrote was suppository **** based on a hypothetical that wasn't ever coming true. You're talking entirely about a process after Cazorla receives the ball, by which stage Skrtel's already out of position. Your "rolled the ball into Arsenal's left wing channel" comment is hilarious considering Podolski was about ten yards behind anyone else Cazorla wins the ball.

But again, thanks for proving my point - Reina wasn't remotely to blame, and the defence was.

If Skrtel comes to the ball sooner he opens up the whole left hand side, Skrtel did the right thing in holding his position and waiting for the defence to get back. Had Glen Johnson tracked back then the goal could have been prevented. Suggesting Skrtel should have been marking Cazorla from the off is laughable given that he picked up the ball on from arsenal pov on the right hand side of the centre circle about 15 yrds ahead of Agger in a straight line.

What you are suggesting is that one of the centre backs should be standing 15 yards ahead of the other in a straight line.

Utterly clueless.

[SRL88]

yeah really is quite embarrassing, clearly doesn't have an excuse why someone wasn't signed so just sent out a load of PR spin. However that's probably better than airing whatever went wrong in public, even if it means we'll never know if the issue was more with FSG or Ayre.

One thing I'm happy about is how clearly pissed off Rodgers is about the whole thing.

Having just read it I think embarrassing is a bit to far, but I understand where you are coming from. No matter what happened during the transfer window, I think they are trying to do the right things in the long run.

I am glad that Rodgers is visably annoyed by the whole thing though.

[Rafalution]

yeah, having reread it that maybe was a bit too far. tbh i don't think the letter is aimed at a lot of us, more to those that think FSG are ruining the club, just want to make mony from it or are totally incompetent, as opposed to those of us who just think they dropped the ball big time last week but are otherwise positive about them (in which case a letter focusing on things we already knew that arent the issue atm is a bit embarassing).

[SRL88]

yeah, having reread it that maybe was a bit too far. tbh i don't think the letter is aimed at a lot of us, more to those that think FSG are ruining the club, just want to make mony from it or are totally incompetent, as opposed to those of us who just think they dropped the ball big time last week but are otherwise positive about them (in which case a letter focusing on things we already knew that arent the issue atm is a bit embarassing).

I dont know where people could get off on saying that they are even considering ruining the club based off the prediciment we were in under Hicks & Gillett. They have tried everything they could to ensure the club is on a financialy secure ground and although I understand peoples apprehension towards them when they came in, it is difficult to say that they havent been trying to do right by the club since. They have wiped massive loads of debt and they havent understood football so much and threw money around in the last 18 months which could be partly their blame, but also massively on Dalglish and Ayre. They realised that we couldnt continue to do that so have wiped a huge chunk off our wages (£500k p/w I believe?) and are trying to build for the future.

I think those of us who arent looking through rose tinted glasses can see that we arent the club we were 6-7 seasons ago and a lot has changed since. The club was on the brink of administration due to the lies and deceipt of two people. We have been brought away from that and it is going to take time for us to build up towards a side which can compete on every front. I hope Rodgers is given all the time in the world because he could easily be to us what Wenger has been to Arsenal or Fergie to Man Utd. Yeah that is a massive statement, and probably to early to say, but the way Managers are hot-shotted in and out of the job these days doesnt give them time to actually implement anything. He needs time, and by that it could be 3-4 years. Patience is the key at the moment.

[Jongi]

i imagine he got a lot of abuse on his twitter account and so was talking to those people.

[Kenco]

Get Drogba in, he knows how to find the back of the net.

[Rafalution]

i imagine he got a lot of abuse on his twitter account and so was talking to those people.

that's probably sadly true, though i'm not sure those people are open enough to change their opinion based on that letter. it must suck having to deal with the average overly-vocal football fan.

[SRL88]

Get Drogba in, he knows how to find the back of the net.

He does, but I cant see him joining any other English club other than Chelsea, and would want unbelievably big wages which we would most likely be unwilling to pay.

[PoolFan]

I think those of us who arent looking through rose tinted glasses can see that we arent the club we were 6-7 seasons ago and a lot has changed since. The club was on the brink of administration due to the lies and deceipt of two people. We have been brought away from that and it is going to take time for us to build up towards a side which can compete on every front. I hope Rodgers is given all the time in the world because he could easily be to us what Wenger has been to Arsenal or Fergie to Man Utd. Yeah that is a massive statement, and probably to early to say, but the way Managers are hot-shotted in and out of the job these days doesnt give them time to actually implement anything. He needs time, and by that it could be 3-4 years. Patience is the key at the moment.

BINGO!

Do people have any idea how much money has been simply wasted at Liverpool over the last 3/4 years. Just take two example, how much do you think the combined signings of Joe Cole and Aquilani cost the club, a VERY kind estimate has to be around the 15 million pound mark. I read it cost us almost 8 million pounds to get rid of Hodgson. I swear people are living in a ****ing dream world where Liverpool have the ability to print money season after season.

What we need is a long term plan/vision/approach where we don't simply go around throwing money we don't have at problems. For WAY too long we have overpaid players and also overpaid in terms of transfers. I for one am happy that we are now following a plan where we don't get bent over by other clubs everytime we come knocking.

[dking]

It's baffling how some people can still defend Reina and not attach any blame to him, ever, and to then claim that blaming him, for glaring mistakes, or questioning his ability in recent years, is completely unfounded and is nothing more than people jumping on some sort of a Reina hating bandwagon is just insulting, ignorant, and shows levels of denial that are akin to some of the deluded KD supporters.

It's obviously very hard for some people to accept in here, but sometimes players don't get better with age, they get worse, or they go stale and need a change, or they need to get dropped and have a kick up the backside until they find some form again. It happens. Accept it.

And stop calling Reina world class, it's ****ing embarrassing.

[daemonic]

They seem to be relying on FFP being implemented properly. The long term aim of CL qualification by 2015 suggests they're hoping FFP will cause a few teams to have to pull i their horns and we'll catch up as they do. IF FFP isn't implemented (and I don't think Platini et al have the balls to exclude Man City, Chelsea etc.) then they'll sell the club as they simply don't have the finances to compete.

[CaptainPlanet]

We have a good squad, a good manager and good owners who are running the club sensibly.

Some people's expectation levels need to be adjusted.

[Kopite]

We have a good squad, a good manager and good owners who are running the club sensibly.

Some people's expectation levels need to be adjusted.

Sorry how do we have a good squad? Is that a serious comment? There's sensible running of a club like Arsenal and then there is significantly decreasing your squad size just to save money. Rodgers still has a lot to prove, I'm 100% behind him but a good spell at Swansea won't mean he will also be successful here. I believe he can be if the owners back him properly and not leave him with only two strikers like they have done now.

[CaptainPlanet]

My point still stands.

[Kopite]

How? You honestly believe if gerrard or Suarez or Allen etc get injured we have a squad good enough to cope? Look at yesterday how much Lucas was missed, arsenal strolled through our midfield because we dont have any backup in key positions.

Edit: just to clarify I'm not saying we should be challenging for top 4 or anything I just think the club is being run awfully. The owners aren't backing up what they have said in the past and they've left a manager who already doesn't have any experience managing under the expectations of a club like Liverpool with our smallest squad in ages.

[SRL88]

We have a pretty solid first team and some good back-up players, but our overall strength in depth is obvious.

[CaptainPlanet]

We have a good enough squad to finish 5-7 in the league, whilst developing and bringing through youth talent from the academy

We are allowing a new manager to introduce his philosophy to the club over a number of years and play entertaining football. A manager who not only says the right things, but has a plan, and a plan that is bought in to by the players, the staff, the management and a lot of the fans.

We have owners who not only say the right things, in the right way. But have saved us financially from administration, have made sensible hiring and firing decisions, and are willing to run the club sensibly when it comes to finances so we don't find ourselves in the same situation again.

Fan expectations need to be adjusted to accept all of the above. We are not going to be challenging for the title for years. The bar has been raised significantly by other teams in terms of getting in to the top 4, other clubs have more income, bigger stadiums and more settled squads.

[Mulliner]

I think you mean 15th-17th CP...

[LRJ]

Michael Owen

Florent Sinama Pongolle

Emile Heskey

Alfonso Alves

Eidur Gudjohnsen

Darius Vassell

Mikael Forsell

Danny Webber

David Connolly

James Beattie

Brett Ormerod

Caleb Folan

David Cotteril

James McFadden

David Suazo

Alessando Del Piero

Robbie Fowler

Hernan Crespo

Better list of free agents (Fowler though ) who are avaliable.

[Kopite]

We have a good enough squad to finish 5-7 in the league, whilst developing and bringing through youth talent from the academy

We are allowing a new manager to introduce his philosophy to the club over a number of years and play entertaining football. A manager who not only says the right things, but has a plan, and a plan that is bought in to by the players, the staff, the management and a lot of the fans.

We have owners who not only say the right things, in the right way. But have saved us financially from administration, have made sensible hiring and firing decisions, and are willing to run the club sensibly when it comes to finances so we don't find ourselves in the same situation again.

Fan expectations need to be adjusted to accept all of the above. We are not going to be challenging for the title for years. The bar has been raised significantly by other teams in terms of getting in to the top 4, other clubs have more income, bigger stadiums and more settled squads.

5th-7th really? You actually believe that? 1st eleven maybe I'd agree but certainly not squad. A couple of long term injuries in key areas and we are in trouble.

I think the owners are going too far in terms of the finances. We refused to pay 2 million extra for Dempsey. Even if we had signed him and maybe more cover for centre half and Lucas then we would have 20 first team players and more adequate cover in key areas. There is a lot of pressure on young lads to deliver now some of whom aren't ready.

There's also the problem that another 8th place finish and we start to properly look like a mid table club and top talent will avoid coming to us.

[foofighter23]

its all well and good the owners saying we wont over pay anymore but if the going rate for dempsey was £6m then that is what we had to pay. they'll find out soon enough that theyre gonna have to be flexible because a take it or leave it offer wont wash with teams especially if there are other clubs interested.

i'm just hoping this is all part of a masterplan to get walcott and sturridge in on free's in january but by that time they may not even want to come because im with mulliner here, we're more likely to finish 15th-17th than 5th-7th atm.

[Romanista.]

It's baffling how some people can still defend Reina and not attach any blame to him, ever, and to then claim that blaming him, for glaring mistakes, or questioning his ability in recent years, is completely unfounded and is nothing more than people jumping on some sort of a Reina hating bandwagon is just insulting, ignorant, and shows levels of denial that are akin to some of the deluded KD supporters.

It's obviously very hard for some people to accept in here, but sometimes players don't get better with age, they get worse, or they go stale and need a change, or they need to get dropped and have a kick up the backside until they find some form again. It happens. Accept it.

And stop calling Reina world class, it's ****ing embarrassing.

he has gotten the brazilian goalie syndrome. dida, doni, julio ceasar..........all of them suddenly lost it.

[Kopite]

its all well and good the owners saying we wont over pay anymore but if the going rate for dempsey was £6m then that is what we had to pay. they'll find out soon enough that theyre gonna have to be flexible because a take it or leave it offer wont wash with teams especially if there are other clubs interested.

i'm just hoping this is all part of a masterplan to get walcott and sturridge in on free's in january but by that time they may not even want to come because im with mulliner here, we're more likely to finish 15th-17th than 5th-7th atm.

Exactly. I'm all for not getting ripped off anymore but when the club refuses to pay pretty reasonable prices for decent players then were going to be left in the position we are in now with a threadbare squad.

[DeafParrot]

Bring back Pongolle :*)

[SRL88]

Bring back Pongolle :*)

He is only 27 as well so should technically be in his prime.

[CaptainPlanet]

5th-7th really? You actually believe that? 1st eleven maybe I'd agree but certainly not squad. A couple of long term injuries in key areas and we are in trouble.

I think our starting eleven and our squad strength is better than Newcastle or Evertons. Who would also be worse off than us if they had a couple of key injuries.

So finishing 6th this season behind City, United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs whilst moving towards our long term goal in the way that we've been going already is completely feasible and sensible.

[foofighter23]

i think every liverpool fan on the planet would take 6th right now, which in itself is telling.

[SRL88]

I thought we would finish 6th at the start of the season and I stand by that. I would honestly say the top 4 of Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal & Chelsea are way ahead of us, and although Spurs have a much, much better squad than ours, they vastly need to improve under an AVB who really needs to prove himself as well. Newcastle will be there abouts again but their strikers havent exactly started well and Everton will be there again. So many things to look into and so much can change.

[foofighter23]

i also said 6th but with a woefully out of form gerrard and suarez we're left with looking at a 21 and 17 yr old to pull us out the ****.

right now we need both gerrrard and suarez to hit top form for a sustained portion of the season to even look likely 6th place finishers.

[Kopite]

I wanted 6th but thought 8th. Nothing over the transfer window has done anything to change that. If anything I think if we are unlucky with injuries we could be as low as 10th.