JJ72 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 A much better question. He was offered a contract, just decided to **** off and it's working out brilliantly for him Why did he not want to sign for Manchester United then? SAF man management? Lack of playing time? Contract pititful? All of the above? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 He clearly wanted to play more, Juve offered him a chance to play more, 2 and 2 make 4. Pretty sure Juve could have offered him a contract in January so he might have been already 'gone' by the time he got some playing time for us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Maybe we should have given him playing time. The fletcher/ando/giggs/scholes who supports Carrick situation was occurring last year as well. None of this is new and could and should have been planned for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Yeah, we might even have won the league this season if we'd sorted this out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 The annoying bit is it is actually working out brilliantly for him, he should have been given far more game time than he got and earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Yeah, we might even have won the league this season if we'd sorted this out I was thinking more the Champions League but maybe I'm more ambitious for this small club... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I don't think we could have Pogba replacing the referee, no matter what sort of contract we had him on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Perhaps he should, but it's mainly this season he has come on leaps and bounds. Maybe he needed a change of environment. He didn't really stand out for the reserves last season, so it was hard to say he deserved to play more than he did. He got some chances, and did well in a couple of them. I suspect his mind was already elsewhere, so he didn't really give much of a **** about United. It was clear probably by January or at least Feb-March that he was leaving, so SAF didn't give him as many chances in the last 5-6 months as he would probably have gotten had the contract situation been cleared and we knew he would stay and have a future with us. If SAF basically knew he was leaving, why give him gametime? Had he stayed, I'm sure he would have played a lot more this season. Probably not as much as he has gotten in Juventus, mind, so it's hard to say he made the wrong decision. It has clearly worked out very well for him. Annoying to lose a player like that, but I don't really think SAF did too much wrong there. He couldn't bend over backwards and give him a silly contract, nor playing time when he didn't warrant it based on performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I don't think we could have Pogba replacing the referee, no matter what sort of contract we had him on So true Ice! Maybe we could have been ahead by more before the Nani incident?! who knows... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Maybe we wouldn't even have been in the CL knock out stages. Idiotic pondering Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 We also need to keep in mind our tactic compared with Juventus. They have a 5-man midfield, so when Pogba plays he has two guys doing the running for him. That wouldn't be the situation here. He simply fits their system much better than he would here. With basically a 2-man central midfield every game, we need experience and excellent positional awareness from our central pair. Pogba is a great talent, but he doesn't have that. This is probably why Cleverley hasn't played as much as some of us want either. He isn't as sturdy defensively and positionally as SAF wants for that midfield pair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Well I went down the Pogba route but as the original comment was about the crucialness of Carrick - we could and should have signed someone instead. If Carrick had been injured seriously this season I reckon we wouldn't be talking about possible winning the league, we'd be worrying about champions league qualification. I'm not sure how you can call it idiotic pondering Ice but that's only your opinion... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 The "we could have been further ahead with Pogba" is idiotic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 The "we could have been further ahead with Pogba" is idiotic What part of could have do you not understand? It was speculation on my part to suggest that we rely too much on Carrick and we have been lucky that he has remained fit and in form all season. Pogba or someone else being played consistently in centre midfield would have helped the team surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Or he could have scored 8 own goals and had 15 red cards? There's absolutely no point in this thinking. We have dominated the league, we were easily taking care of Madrid until the ref ruined it. Pogba ponderings are idiotic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Pogba would be even better in a two man midfield imo. He is so dynamic and agile he can cover ground like not many other players can. I don't see him playing long term where he does now for Juve, its just he has Vidal and Marchisio in the other positions that might suit him more. Pirlo obviously plays less due to age. I think he can develop into such a player, at least if he had stayed in United, because as you say he has the right attributes for it - but I don't think he is that player now. He is a great talent though, and it's always sad to lose players like that. If he had a bit more patience he could have become an important player for us. Unfortunately (for us) he wanted it all right NOW, so he left. SAF typically gets the blame for that, but I don't think he could have done too much differently. Pogba could have gotten some more matches here and there, but if in his mind he wanted to be a regular, then a few more matches would not have mattered a jot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Experience and excellent positional awareness are not the things I'd associate with Phil Jones. Pogba would have been excellent here, arguments about how we'd have done with him this season are daft because Cups are always a lottery and we couldn't have done much better in the league anyway. The question really is would the club be much stronger in the next few years if he'd stayed and looking at the player he's on the way to becoming the answer is an emphatic yes. He should have been given far more time on the pitch than he was, regardless of his reserve form because he had obvious quality. We messed up and lost a good player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Jones hasn't played a lot in central midfield anyway, but obviously he isn't very experienced. As to the last sentence, I think his head was already turned, and there was basically nothing we could do at that point to get him to stay, which is WHY he got so few matches. Manchester United is more important than Paul Pogba, or any other player, so if he didn't warrant matches based on performance, then he would not get matches. If he had played well enough to force his way in, then he would get matches. He is doing that in Juventus now. We could all wish he was still here and doing that for us, but things didn't work out that way. What I am saying, is I think it's wrong to put the brunt of the blame on SAF. There is another party (or two, including his agent) here, and I think Pogba had decided long before June that he wanted to leave, and perhaps didn't give his all due to that. Whatever happened, he is gone now and we have moved on. We bought Nick Powell. Perhaps not as big a talent, but more likely to stay. It's not a coincidence SAF has often preferred buying British over the years, and a big brunt of our team is British/UK/whatever. I'd even say he made the right call on Evans v Pique, because the latter was always going to go back to Barca at some point. We know how that game is played by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Experience and excellent positional awareness are not the things I'd associate with Phil Jones. Pogba would have been excellent here, arguments about how we'd have done with him this season are daft because Cups are always a lottery and we couldn't have done much better in the league anyway. The question really is would the club be much stronger in the next few years if he'd stayed and looking at the player he's on the way to becoming the answer is an emphatic yes.He should have been given far more time on the pitch than he was, regardless of his reserve form because he had obvious quality. We messed up and lost a good player. This and in a position in which we lack consistent quality in depth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Jones hasn't played a lot in central midfield anyway, but obviously he isn't very experienced. As to the last sentence, I think his head was already turned, and there was basically nothing we could do at that point to get him to stay, which is WHY he got so few matches. Manchester United is more important than Paul Pogba, or any other player, so if he didn't warrant matches based on performance, then he would not get matches. If he had played well enough to force his way in, then he would get matches. He is doing that in Juventus now. We could all wish he was still here and doing that for us, but things didn't work out that way. What I am saying, is I think it's wrong to put the brunt of the blame on SAF. There is another party (or two, including his agent) here, and I think Pogba had decided long before June that he wanted to leave, and perhaps didn't give his all due to that.Whatever happened, he is gone now and we have moved on. We bought Nick Powell. Perhaps not as big a talent, but more likely to stay. It's not a coincidence SAF has often preferred buying British over the years, and a big brunt of our team is British/UK/whatever. I'd even say he made the right call on Evans v Pique, because the latter was always going to go back to Barca at some point. We know how that game is played by now. He hadn't had his head turned at the start of last season. It's inexcusable that he only played 100ish minutes of first team football for us during the first half of the season, that's an hour less than Darron Gibson got. Powell isn't the same type of player as Pogba, he's never a replacement for Pogba. This isn't like Pique and Evans or even Rossi, in those cases there was at least a decision to make because they had better players ahead of them in those positions so games were never there, Pogba should have been in and around the first team far more than he was. He played well every time he got a chance in the first team, those performances didn't earn the kind of opportunities they deserved and the chances didn't come often enough anyway. It's entirely the clubs fault and Pogba has shown up how silly it was to let him go at Juventus now. His agent absolutely did the best thing for him, getting him out of a club that wasn't willing to give him proper chances and to similar sized one that was. Sure we've moved on, but we're weaker for it and Pogba and Juventus are stronger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Yes, Carrick has been immense for us again this season, just like last season. Evans too. RVP was just awesome at the start although has tailed off a bit. As for Rooney, I honestly wouldn't be that bothered to see him go given his performances this year, as long as the money is used to replace him more than adequately. He has far too many elongated periods of matches where he plays crap. At his best he is majestic, but it isn't anywhere near often enough for someone purportedly on £220,000 a week. And if those stories are true about him wanting to discuss a new deal, he realy should earn the £220k he's already on before having the bloody cheek to ask for more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I think the whole Pogba thing was a sort of catch-22 situation. Sir Alex didn't want to give him first team football if he wasn't committed to the club, and Pogba didn't want to commit himself to the club when he wasn't playing first team football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Sir Alex confirming what we all knew, De Gea is undisputed #1 for us now. Said he's developed really well in the last year and they have no problems with him now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 A Spurs win today would be very nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 It would indeed be grand, followed by us wrapping it up at home to Villa. If City play away to Spurs like they did at home to Wigan it could very well happen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Sir Alex confirming what we all knew, De Gea is undisputed #1 for us now. Said he's developed really well in the last year and they have no problems with him now Pleased he's come out and said it though - think DDG has shown incredible mental resolve through this time which bodes well for his future 15 or so years at the club. Future captain? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Doesn't Lindegaard need a couple of games for a title medal though, surely he'll get those once the title is wraped up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I never knew you could actually hear crickets chirping on an internet message board Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Yeah, I don't get that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Yeah, you wouldn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Well, at least you tried Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Whereas the 'he needs x appearances for a medal' is basically just phoning it in these days Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Oh, still going with the 'we haven't won it yet' rubbish, ffs. It's bloody over. It's a normal question, this is the first time I heard Fergie state who his number 1 is .. but IIRC Lindegaard needs a couple of games for a medal I have no interest in 'trolling' and if I wanted to I'd do it a whole lot better than that. Ok, "in the event that by some insane twist of fate you manage to win this title surely he'd give Lindegaard the games required" which just makes the timing of saying he's number 1 a little odd imo as to state that and then 'here's a couple of games you need, mate' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Well It's not over is it. Could drop points tomorrow and then have to play Arsenal and Chelsea, both of those aren't guaranteed wins... taking it to the last 2 games of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readingfanman Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I thought everyone in the named 25 gets a medal anyway now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Still 10 appearances. http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/fans/faqs/minimum-games-played-in-order-to-win-league-medal.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I thought everyone in the named 25 gets a medal anyway now? That would make more sense though tbf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Yeah, so I reckon it's ours now tbf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Lindegaard the only one who can add his name to the list now. Everyone else has already played enough, or can't play enough to qualify. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hursty2 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Second keepers auto get a medal anyway don't they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltaroad Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 So if we win against Villa do we win the league? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 So if we win against Villa do we win the league? Yep . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 it's coming home... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leppard Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 You win the league if you beat Villa tomorrow, right? Edit: Too slow in asking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Buttner 3 Lindegaard 8 Fletcher 3 Powell 2 Only 4 who have under 10 but have appeared in Prem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 0-1 tomorrow then lads? Could not at all see Spurs turning that game around when I saw it was 0-1 and Mancini went defensive. RVP must be over the moon now. His first one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hursty2 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Will they present the trophy tomorrow? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 0-1 tomorrow then lads? Could not at all see Spurs turning that game around when I saw it was 0-1 and Mancini went defensive. RVP must be over the moon now. His first one. We haven't won it yet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Well It's not over is it. It is now over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 RVP's mission tomorrow is to score the winning goal and have a guard of honour at Arsenal... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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