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The 2012-2013 Manchester United Thread: Thank you, Sir Alex

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If you guys are considering selling Rooney than now is the time. This transfer window coming up will be the last one in his career where you can get top money. Possible £30-40m transfer could be put towards bringing back Ronaldo or invested elsewhere into the team to develop a new shape which Fergie does like doing. Would you guys consider a move for Neymar as replacement good or a waste of money?

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Would you guys consider a move for Neymar as replacement good or a waste of money?

A waste for me.

Would only sell Rooney if we were to use the money for Bale and or Wilshere.

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Nah Neymar is top quality. Its obvious watching him play for Brazil that he is the best player in the team.

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Icon really hates Kagawa :D

What makes you think that? Only person I have been very harsh on is Evans.

A lot of people want various players to succeed/fail for whatever reason but we can't claim that Kagawa has done much. We know the talent is there but he should not be immune from criticism on his under-performance just because that variety of player is a fashionable asset.

He has had 1 maybe 2 good games and while I agree that "he will come good", making excuses for/or being blind to his form at United are not indications of belief. On the flip side, every time I mention him, we get his white knight straight into the foray to fight his corner. ;)

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What makes you think that? Only person I have been very harsh on is Evans.

A lot of people want various players to succeed/fail for whatever reason but we can't claim that Kagawa has done much. We know the talent is there but he should not be immune from criticism on his under-performance just because that variety of player is a fashionable asset.

He has had 1 maybe 2 good games and while I agree that "he will come good", making excuses for/or being blind to his form at United are not indications of belief. On the flip side, every time I mention him, we get his white knight straight into the foray to fight his corner. ;)

None of this fits in with your definitive statement that he'll never be a first team go-to guy, does it? Paddle that boat icon, paddle it hard! ;)

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Apart from defend properly, which obviously doesn't matter in midfield

Didn't hurt Scholes :brock:

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We're not selling Rooney, I do wish people would give up on it. We couldn't afford to buy anyone better because there are very, very few of them about.

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Kagawa suffered a knee injury in the first season in a new country. It's too early to say what he can and cannot do.

As as for getting rid of Rooney, I'd only be all for it if I was absolutely sure that we'd be getting someone as good or better. I guess all we can hope is, if he does go, he goes at the end of a massive bidding war for him.

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The sole reason the media are going overboard on "Sell Rooney" headlines is that he didn't start against Madrid. He is one of our best players, so to sell him would be stupid. Bale isn't happening, and I doubt Ronaldo, but if it allowed us to bring back Ronaldo then I can see the sense in it. However, he brings a lot to the team and is one of our best players, so I don't want him gone. He brings more to the team than just goals and assists, which is plenty in itself. A bit the same with Kagawa. He is great at finding those pockets of space, and drags defenders here and there by doing so. Football isn't just about who scores and assists, or who nutmegs players, or makes accurate sliding tackles or interceptions. It's also about tactical considerations, and creating chain events that open up space for others. Kagawa and Rooney is good at this, and I expect Kagawa to improve on both this and other aspects of his game next season.

Besides, Rooney has the mentality that Sir Alex loves in his players. He utterly hates to lose, no matter the context, and drives on to win. He is a winner.

I see this trend in other team threads too, that I sometimes take a peek at. The club's own fans down recognize the talent and are easy to start criticising, but then other team's fans come in and are less critical and more understanding. It's a strange phenomenon. You'd think club X's fans would be the most supporting of their own club and players, but sometimes it's the other way around.

(That's not to say criticism shouldn't be allowed ofc, before somebody too quickly jumps on that train (again)).

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We're not selling Rooney, I do wish people would give up on it. We couldn't afford to buy anyone better because there are very, very few of them about.

This sums it up.

Rooney's unbelievably good. We all agree that RVP is better than him, but anytime over his career here that we've needed him, he's stepped up to the plate as the main man each time.

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if we sell Rooney, we could probably stretch to buy Neymar.

but i think it is a load of hot air, as usual with most rumours.

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None of this fits in with your definitive statement that he'll never be a first team go-to guy, does it? Paddle that boat icon, paddle it hard! ;)

How many of those do we have?

RVP, Rooney, Vidic, Rio, Evra & Carrick (stretching to Rafa, De Gea & Evans if we really stretch the criteria) are the only proven go-to guys in our first team and I was saying that "replacing one of those (Rooney due to position) with Kagawa is a NO for me"

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Rooney is worth more to us in the squad than whatever money we would get for him (which I do not expect to be as high as the UK press are speculating). That said, if the money was right then I would sell as everyone has a price.

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Whilst I'm not Rooney's biggest fan, I still believe he's a very good player. Although he's not the 'world-class' player the press portray him as and I feel he's never quite fulfilled the potential he showed as a teenager, he is still in the next echelon of quality player. Unless we're going to get a 'world-class' fee for him or we have a 'world-class' player lined up as a replacement, he shouldn't be sold as we'd be weakening the team at a time when I feel we're getting stronger and stronger. We still need to find a replacement for Evra although his form this season has been a step back to near his best level and our wingers form hasn't been good enough. I can't see us doing striker swaps at this stage of the team's evolution.

I just think that Rooney's being caught up in quality by Welbeck's outstanding (and consistent) performances - if he was scoring goals as well, which will come I'm sure, then Rooney wouldn't be getting a sniff. As people have already said, Kagawa is also knocking on the door. Our attacking options through the middle are insane at the moment, I'm sure if anyone is getting pissed, it's Chicha and I wouldn't be surprised if he was asking to leave at some point in the future...

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if we sell Rooney, we could probably stretch to buy Neymar.

Which (especially for the time we'd have him before he went somewhere warm) would be a rather impressive step down for a player the team doesn't actually need. Who is actually on Rooney's level and plays in the same position? Aguero of last season, Ibra, RvP, Suarez, Tevez when he's at the very top of his game (football, not golf)? 2 of those I wouldn't touch with a taser, one plays for us, the other City and Ibra is 31 and by the time he completes his contract at PSG will be the king of France.

He's one of those players the club just shouldn't be interested in selling unless they want to leave unless there is genuine silly money on offer (eg. not far off what we got for Ronaldo). And as good as Welbeck was in 2 games against Madrid (although his 6 shots without scoring at OT cost us badly), even sticking 10 goals on his tally wouldn't put him in the same league as Rooney.

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Wow... this thread sometimes...

In a (no doubt doomed) attempt to move swiftly on; team for Sunday anyone? I'd like something along the lines of

de Gea

Smalling

Ferdinand

Evans

Evra

Carrick

Cleverley

Nani

Rooney

Giggs/Welbeck (whoever ran themselves into the ground less on Tues)

Hernandez

a nice mobile defence with a bit of added steel from Smalling; a common sense middle five; and Hernandez up top cos he lurves scoring against Chelsea.

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I'm sorry. No RVP?

Chelsea shall die. After the injustice of Tuesday, I want to see the team firing on all cylinders, and that means every top player we have (that hasn't run himself into the ground) should start.

Don't think Giggs will start after playing 90, and perhaps not Rafael either as it must have cost a lot to follow Ronaldo around (much the same for Giggs, actually).

Feels so unfair that Chicharito isn't getting more games, but it's hard to drop either RVP or Rooney for him, and Welbeck has been great lately too (although lacking the goals, for now). Maybe he will start one though. Having gone out of the CL and having good control in the league, I think the importance of the FA Cup has just skyrocketed. Hopefully every player in that dressing room on Tuesday, after the worst disappointment and fury died down, said to themselves: "Okay, now we win the Double".

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And yeah, do everything to win the FA cup.

12 point lead. Out of the Champions League. FA Cup is huge, atm.

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I'm sorry. No RVP?

One goal in eight and looking rusty - only Carrick and Evra have played more minutes. Hernandez deserves a game and typically performs against Chelsea; while Rooney should be on one after Tuesday.

And yeah, do everything to win the FA cup.

12 point lead. Out of the Champions League. FA Cup is huge, atm.

This all over.

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12 point lead. Out of the Champions League. FA Cup is huge, atm.

Desperate to win the FA Cup. It's been far too long for a club like ours.

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RvP needs a rest, plus his form frankly doesn't warrant a spot in the team at the moment ahead of Hernandez. It's alright keeping Hernandez on the bench while RvP is scoring a goal a game but with 4 strikers the second he dips even slightly we've gotta give someone else a shot. Rooney and Hernandez ideally with Nani and Young on the wings. Really wish we had someone who could give Carrick a rest but I don't think Anderson/Cleverley would cut it against Chelsea and I really want to win the FA Cup, it's a priority as a reward to Ferdinand for the epic slow clap at the end of the Real match.

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we do need to drop/rest rvp. he's looked bollocksed since about christmas and tellingly his form has started to dip more recently probably down to the sheer amount of minutes he's played.

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Perhaps you're right, but he also has that special ability in him to score from anything. Admittedly he hasn't lately, but he is getting to chances and has had some amazing saves against him, so it's not like he's being useless. Then there is the great buildup play he has, and his good movement. Could be he needs a rest though. He has played a lot recently, and I'd like to see him be top goalscorer again in the league, so I don't want him rested there.

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If RvP wants to be top scorer in the league he can bloody well score more goals than Suarez, the way he's playing if we played him in every match he'd still not be top scorer anyway.

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"Okay, now we win the Double".
And yeah, do everything to win the FA cup.

12 point lead. Out of the Champions League. FA Cup is huge, atm.

This all over.

Desperate to win the FA Cup. It's been far too long for a club like ours.

Now you guys are up to speed with what was going to be the obvious endgame of our season, how do we approach Chelsea? They have looked dire recently and so are nailed on to turn into superheroes at the weekend.

If we keep our heads and don't feel down, we could use the CL exit as motivation.

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Now you guys are up to speed with what was going to be the obvious endgame of our season, how do we approach Chelsea? They have looked dire recently and so are nailed on to turn into superheroes at the weekend.

If we keep our heads and don't feel down, we could use the CL exit as motivation.

Wasn't obvious, or the end game, before Nani got sent off. Was all going to plan.

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Perhaps you're right, but he also has that special ability in him to score from anything.

Well yeah, obviously still have him on the bench for another West Ham moment if required.

Now you guys are up to speed with what was going to be the obvious endgame of our season, how do we approach Chelsea? They have looked dire recently and so are nailed on to turn into superheroes at the weekend.

If we keep our heads and don't feel down, we could use the CL exit as motivation.

Well I was gagging for a run at the start of the season (and have been for the last three), but ta ;) I think that's exactly how we'll respond - the manner of the exit should inspire a determination to right wrongs rather than wallow in defeat. I'm hoping for more of the shock and awe that put them on the back foot early doors at the Bridge, and that was when they were playing well! Strong team out in Bucharest tonight.

Interesting what Tom says about it being too long for a team of our size. I think some might see that as being arrogant or spoiled, but I think it's more about our history with the Cup - this is our longest run without a Final appearance since '76; our longest without winning it since the season after that.

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When you're winning leagues and champions leagues in that time, and not getting close to the FA cup, something's wrong.

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Watching them tonight against Steaua is painful.

I heard. It's not going to be fun talking to my dad later tonight.

When you're winning leagues and champions leagues in that time, and not getting close to the FA cup, something's wrong.

Yes and no.

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. ?

I mean....I understand the sentiment and I agree at the same time I understand why it can happen seeing how it's a single knockout competition. One bad day and that's it. In that regard it's easier to hang around the champion's league and a title race.

Plus a part of me feels like we probably haven't focused to much in the recent past. And we've been just plain unlucky.

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When you're winning leagues and champions leagues in that time, and not getting close to the FA cup, something's wrong.

Been a silly number of years now where we've either been ridiculously unlucky or have been drawn against one of our major rivals which has led to us going out.

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Apart from defend properly, which obviously doesn't matter in midfield

For a moderator, you can be quite stupid really. I'm thinking someone like Sissoko or Scholes 12yrs ago, who incidentally was never brilliant defensively either.

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I don't think moderators here have to take an IQ test?

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I don't think moderators here have to take an IQ test?

Lucky for most of us then :D.

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Lucky for most of us then :D.

I won't name any names :o

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I won't name any names :o

Best way, or you will be in the dog house :brock:.

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Best way, or you will be in the dog house :brock:.

Can't have that happen. Gotta keep my record on here spotless :D

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I don't think moderators here have to take an IQ test?

We do, anyone who scores over 100 gets rejected.

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Macheda virtually played the whole 90 today for Stuttgart. No idea how he did, but they lost 0-2. See it didn't go too well for the Chavs either, though I guess they'll overturn them at home.

In addition to drawing a ridiculous amount of PL teams in the cups these last years, which obviously makes it harder to win the thing, I think it has gradually been reduced in stature, at least for us, when fighting for league and CL glory. It's gone a little bit like the League Cup, although clearly not nearly that far, as other competitions are quite simply more important for us. Moving the final date to before the end of the season has done nothing to help the FA Cup's stature either.

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We've not done that badly in the FA cup recently;

2007 - beaten in the final by Chelsea

2008 - Atkinson'd in the 6th round vs Pompey

2009 - Everton semi-final, how that ever got to penalties I'll never know

2010 - 3rd round vs Leeds, the really bad result in recent times

2011 - The City semi-final

2012 - Knocked out by Liverpool

I count 2 absolutely baffling results (heavily influenced by the referee one at least), 3 defeats by 'top' teams (well, Liverpool) and 1 horror show. It's just frustrating that we haven't managed to convert one of those, I doubt that there's many teams with better records (apart from Chelsea) in the last few years.

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Going back to the last time we won it we've got the Cardiff Robbery and another Anfield defeat. So 5 eliminations against our three biggest historical/local rivals. In the 07 final you've got the Giggs penalty/goal not given in ET and the Everton semi the stonewall penner on Welbs by Jagielka.

I don't think anyone would say we've got a bad record all things being equal, but for both our stature and our history with 'our' Cup, our recent record is below par by our standards.

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"He will be here next year, you have my word on that," said Ferguson. "There is no issue between myself and Wayne Rooney. To suggest we don't talk is nonsense."

Ah well...

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