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The 2012-2013 Manchester United Thread: Thank you, Sir Alex

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I do hope this doesn't mean Fergie has his eye on Kagawa as the hard working Asian to a job on the fullback stereotype, wasted there.

Totally different players so I doubt it. I think with the added mobility up front with Welbeck and the willingness of our starting wide men to track back we don't really need Park anymore.

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I do hope this doesn't mean Fergie has his eye on Kagawa as the hard working Asian to a job on the fullback stereotype, wasted there.

Won't work. Kagawa isn't that sort of player.

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According to Sky Sports, (I know, I know), Fryers has agreed to jon Spurs.

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I doubt we'd be able to outbid you for Moutinho, and we wouldn't be able to match your offer of wages either. I'd be very surprised if both Man Utd and Spurs made bids and he chose us over you, even with AVB.

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I doubt we'd be able to outbid you for Moutinho, and we wouldn't be able to match your offer of wages either. I'd be very surprised if both Man Utd and Spurs made bids and he chose us over you, even with AVB.

Its porto. I doubt any of us will match their asking price.

And good luck to Amos.

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You say British transfer record in 1981 like it means something, there were a handful of players going around at that price. Don't try and paint it out to be anything it isn't, he'd only just broken into the England team.

Well the previous record had stood for over two years, and Robson's stood for another six. They had him sign the contract on the pitch ffs, it was a big deal at the time.

Eric Cantona player of 15 games in his League winning season? Or was it the 3 league goals you were alluding to? His next season was a bit better but Leeds were still wanting to get rid, he was anything but established.

15 games in the half of the League winning season he was there for - yeah, that one. Only scored 11 goals in his last season for us too - can't be anything to do with the fact he was a creative force for that Leeds side, providing the ammunition for Chapman. His 'bit better' next season included hattricks against Liverpool and Spurs in the part of the season he played there.

Beckham had just broken into the England side as well, further enforcing the point that the very obvious choice to continue the 'tradition' of the shirt was Welbeck. We have someone at the club who meets your definition of "worthy" for the number 7 shirt, the manager just doesn't want him to have it.

Becks played in all but 2 of our League games in the '97 season (his second as a regular first teamer - hence his #10 shirt), 33 of which were starts, and started all 10 Champions League games, compared to Welbeck starting 23 League and 1 European game. Becks was also the only ever present member of the '98 World Cup qualifying campaign - he'd been an established starter for a whole season, as opposed to Welbeck who made his first start in Feb.

In the hope of moving on from this farce, I thought I'd do a quick analysis of the squad as it stands, since apart from the usual paper talk and Fergie's '1 or 2 deals' tease, there doesn't seem to be a lot happening with regards players coming in.

GK

de Gea; Lindegaard; Johnstone (presumably?)

RB

Rafael; Smalling; Jones; Valencia

CB

Vidic; Ferdinand; Evans; Smalling; Jones; Carrick

LB

Evra; Rafael; Giggs

DM

Carrick; Jones; Fletcher*

CM

Carrick; Cleverley; Scholes; Anderson; Giggs; Jones; Fletcher*; Kagawa?; Powell(?);

RW

Nani; Valencia; Young; Welbeck; Cleverley; Rooney; Fletcher*

AM

Kagawa; Powell; Young; Anderson; Cleverley; Nani; Rooney; Welbeck; Giggs;

LW

Nani; Young; Giggs; Cleverley; Welbeck; Kagawa; Rooney; Macheda*

F

Rooney; Welbeck; Hernandez; Berbatov*; Macheda*; Powell

Asterisks denote players who may well not be around; italics some degree of emergency or desperation. Not included any dross like Bebe, and all the kids are either crap; will likely go out on loan; or both.

I make 24 outfielders including the likes of Berbs, Fletcher, Bebe and Macheda. That strikes me as somewhat on the small side, and it seems pretty obvious where the gaps are. Park to QPR is an interesting one - really don't think he has anything to offer us any more, and if Kagawa is a genuine option on the left then between him and Cleverley we should be sufficiently covered, and will hopefully go for a CM after all.

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Apart from being stupendously thin on RB and LB, the only place we really need a signing is in CM. There is a certain Spaniard I'd fancy, but it's probably more a pipedream than anything else.

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Cole and Lingard aren't crap or going on loan as far as I know, and as of now Petrucci isn't either so they all could be involved. Im pretty confident we will sign 2 more players aswell.

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Will be quite sad if/when Park leaves, although it would be the right decision, he isn't the same player that he was a couple of years ago.

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Either way I'm amazed we got 5 million for him. I wouldn't say he's worth anywhere near that for us anymore, yet he could be worth a lot more to QPR than 5m. Odd situation :D

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yeah 5m seems quite a lot! Happy with that deal if so.

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This is usually where i'd come into a thread and ask what type of player we have signed.

But I already know. A **** load of running.

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Great - now a few mill for Berbs and we've got a left leg of a decent midfielder!

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Cole and Lingard aren't crap or going on loan as far as I know, and as of now Petrucci isn't either so they all could be involved. Im pretty confident we will sign 2 more players aswell.

Was going off this, not that I think either will make it with us. Considered citing Davide as an exception, though I don't think he's yet ready for the first team, whether he goes out on loan or just continues his rehabilitation with the reserves.

And can people stop saying transfers are 'confirmed' before the news has been officially broken? No reputable source that I can see nor either official site has anything on the Park deal. Not that I'm doubting it will go through, but forum/twitter/whatever isn't 'confirmation' :D

Good deal if the figures are correct mind.

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Is it just me, or does the official United site freeze other peoples comps for a good 15-20 seconds when clicking on a link?

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Miguel Delaney thinks Anderson could be next to go, hardly an exclusive as its been rumoured for a while. Think if he does it shows how much we need to clear the wage bill to get new players in just like last season. Hopefully that means Berba is following soon.

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Miguel Delaney thinks Anderson could be next to go, hardly an exclusive as its been rumoured for a while. Think if he does it shows how much we need to clear the wage bill to get new players in just like last season. Hopefully that means Berba is following soon.

Park, Berba, Anderson and a few bob from the Ravel, Fryers and perhaps Pogba deals. Definitely sounds like a freeing up of wages and getting a bit of money in for a large signing.

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BBC are reporting it for £5million - personal terms to be agreed.

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Park is apparently on 70k pw, if true that is obviously a sizeable chunk off the wage bill that can go to Moutinho

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Park is apparently on 70k pw, if true that is obviously a sizeable chunk off the wage bill that can go to a possible new player.

Fixed it for you.

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Park is apparently on 70k pw, if true that is obviously a sizeable chunk off the wage bill that can go to helping with the debt

Yes, I'm feeling Anti-Glazer this evening.

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Well the previous record had stood for over two years, and Robson's stood for another six. They had him sign the contract on the pitch ffs, it was a big deal at the time.

As I said, transfer fees around that time aren't the same as now, there were loads of transfers in and around the £1-1.5m mark during that time, it wasn't like signing Zidane for £45m. Robson wasn't an established superstar like he became at United, I'm not sure why there is an argument about this.

15 games in the half of the League winning season he was there for - yeah, that one. Only scored 11 goals in his last season for us too - can't be anything to do with the fact he was a creative force for that Leeds side, providing the ammunition for Chapman. His 'bit better' next season included hattricks against Liverpool and Spurs in the part of the season he played there.

Yes, and Liverpool turned him down because he was more trouble than he was worth, Leeds also sold him to us remember. Once again, why you're trying to pretend he wasn't seen as a seriously talented but seriously troubled individual with loads of question marks over him seems baffling.

Becks played in all but 2 of our League games in the '97 season (his second as a regular first teamer - hence his #10 shirt), 33 of which were starts, and started all 10 Champions League games, compared to Welbeck starting 23 League and 1 European game. Becks was also the only ever present member of the '98 World Cup qualifying campaign - he'd been an established starter for a whole season, as opposed to Welbeck who made his first start in Feb.
What have Beckham's appearances got to do with it? I've not argued he wasn't getting games for Man Utd, merely that he'd only recently broken in to the team and the England setup. He did benefit massively from not having any competition for his place unlike Welbeck (who managed to oust Hernandez and Berbatov this season), I don't see how waiting until next year and giving Welbeck the Number 7 shirt would be different to Beckham, they'd both be about the same age as well. All three had something to prove when they came here and that is what the number 7 shirt used to be about, a young, talented, often cocky, sometimes inspirational player making a name for himself and growing into the shirt. We've got a option to do that and didn't, speculating on why is pointless.

£2m sounds much more reasonable for Park, wonder if he's taking a major wage cut or if we're subbing him the difference for the rest of his contract.

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It's on the Beeb website and they usually don't post things until it's confirmed so it seems pretty likely.

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Yeh if the BBC are reporting it then it's basically a done deal.

I loved the Park of old but this last season he mainly frustrated me, definitely time for him to move on. Good luck to him.

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great... now if we need a goal against arsneal who gonna score it :(

welbeckbu1y.gif

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This talk of Welbeck to get #7 baffles me. We typically don't give that number to a striker.

Little sad to see that Park is probably off, as I really like him, but it's the right decision. He isn't the player he was and when his engine starts fading that's his main advantage for us gone. If he's on 70k it's clearly right to offload him. Poor Evra though... :D

This does raise the hope a little we can actually put together enough money for a midfield signing. Here's hoping for some news during July :thup:

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The squad is looking a little light in areas so I'm definitely expecting two more signings to strengthen.

Maybe we're freeing up wages so that we can budge the transfer budget up slightly. ;)

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100% of the last 1 player to wear the #7 - strikers

Yeah.

Now Ice, if you really want to get technical then it was probably only around 75%-95% of the last player. Owen was being played as an AM by Newcastle prior to us stealing him on a free. :p

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Yes, and Liverpool turned him down because he was more trouble than he was worth, Leeds also sold him to us remember. Once again, why you're trying to pretend he wasn't seen as a seriously talented but seriously troubled individual with loads of question marks over him seems baffling.

Why can you never discuss the point at hand, rather than resorting to putting words in my mouth? At no point did I 'pretend' any of that. You questioned his contribution to Leeds' title winning campaign and his goalscoring record - you said nothing of his personal issues. Glad you're now at least acknowledging that he was 'seriously talented' though.

What have Beckham's appearances got to do with it? I've not argued he wasn't getting games for Man Utd, merely that he'd only recently broken in to the team and the England setup. He did benefit massively from not having any competition for his place unlike Welbeck (who managed to oust Hernandez and Berbatov this season), I don't see how waiting until next year and giving Welbeck the Number 7 shirt would be different to Beckham, they'd both be about the same age as well. All three had something to prove when they came here and that is what the number 7 shirt used to be about, a young, talented, often cocky, sometimes inspirational player making a name for himself and growing into the shirt. We've got a option to do that and didn't, speculating on why is pointless.

Beckham's appearances have everything to do with him being a surefire starter for the first team at the time, which Welbeck isn't at present. Likewise, starting every game of a World Cup qualifying campaign (and being the only player to do so) made Beckham a far more established in the England set up than Welbeck is at present; not that 'England squad status' has been quite the barometer of a player's position at the club that you seem to believe it to be. All of which is redundant given that you've yet again shifted the goalposts by talking about giving Welbeck the shirt next year whereas the debate previously has been around him having it now. And yeah, if the shirt was left vacant or Owen was leaving at the end of this season [/shudder] and Welbeck starts 45 games for us and is a regular starter for England then I think he'd be a great pick, though I think he'll get the #9 whenever Berba leaves.

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Why can you never discuss the point at hand, rather than resorting to putting words in my mouth? At no point did I 'pretend' any of that. You questioned his contribution to Leeds' title winning campaign and his goalscoring record - you said nothing of his personal issues. Glad you're now at least acknowledging that he was 'seriously talented' though.

The point at hand was that Cantona wasn't an high profile established superstar when we signed him. You then used the fact he'd won the league to claim that he was, I just pointed out he didn't play a major role in that victory so using it is a bit daft. Why would I not acknowledge he was seriously talented? Beckham was, so was Ronaldo... it's kind of a thing.

Beckham's appearances have everything to do with him being a surefire starter for the first team at the time, which Welbeck isn't at present. Likewise, starting every game of a World Cup qualifying campaign (and being the only player to do so) made Beckham a far more established in the England set up than Welbeck is at present; not that 'England squad status' has been quite the barometer of a player's position at the club that you seem to believe it to be. All of which is redundant given that you've yet again shifted the goalposts by talking about giving Welbeck the shirt next year whereas the debate previously has been around him having it now. And yeah, if the shirt was left vacant or Owen was leaving at the end of this season [/shudder] and Welbeck starts 45 games for us and is a regular starter for England then I think he'd be a great pick, though I think he'll get the #9 whenever Berba leaves.

I haven't shifted the goalposts at all. Leaving the shirt until Welbeck has played another 15-20 for top flight clubs like Beckham did makes no difference to me. I do find it rich that you're accusing me of using England squad status, you used it to try and describe David Beckham as a 'high profile established super star' presumably along the same lines as 'Sneijder, Benzema or David Villa'. I was pointing out that we have never don't that and none of Robson, Beckham or Ronaldo where anywhere near that.

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The point at hand was that Cantona wasn't an high profile established superstar when we signed him. You then used the fact he'd won the league to claim that he was, I just pointed out he didn't play a major role in that victory so using it is a bit daft. Why would I not acknowledge he was seriously talented? Beckham was, so was Ronaldo... it's kind of a thing.

He did play a major role in that victory.

I haven't shifted the goalposts at all. Leaving the shirt until Welbeck has played another 15-20 for top flight clubs like Beckham did makes no difference to me. I do find it rich that you're accusing me of using England squad status, you used it to try and describe David Beckham as a 'high profile established super star' presumably along the same lines as 'Sneijder, Benzema or David Villa'. I was pointing out that we have never don't that and none of Robson, Beckham or Ronaldo where anywhere near that.

No I didn't.

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If we get 2-3 million for Fryers though, we can't have too many complaints. I expected the 'usual' 300k, even if he is worth much more than that. Think we're getting pennies for Pogba, which is the really annoying thing.

Pretty sure it'll be compensation for both. Their contracts end this summer.

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He did play a major role in that victory.

Lets say, hypothetically that he did. Does that put him in the "high profile, established superstar" category like Benzema, David Villa or Sneijder?

No I didn't.

You said this;

Not sure that... England regular David Beckham were all that unestablished

In reply to this;

we never give it to the high profile established super star, it's always given to someone with a bit of a point to prove.

Now you could have been picking out one condition of a 3 conditioned statement but since that would be ultimately meaningless to prove anything and you're evidently not stupid I have to assume you were using the fact he was an England regular as evidence for him being a "high profile established super star", something I would disagree with.

Unless of course you were merely saying Beckham was established (using England as proof) but wasn't high profile or a superstar at that point, something I wouldn't disagree with, but then I wouldn't as it doesn't alter the point that we don't give the number 7 shirt to high profile established superstars.

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Yawn, Arguing about nothing of importance on a public forum.

Nobody other than yourselves care about you think, so it'd be nice if you took it to pms!

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Yawn, Arguing about nothing of importance on a public forum.

You've been on the internet before haven't you? If you want to talk about something else then say something worth saying, I'm sure you'll get contributions.

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Oh oops. Seems Pogba's fee will only be a training fee so Fryers fee will likely be higher.

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