Coldberg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Yes, last season he was better than Nani. It's all cool to brag about "one-trick pony", after a few months past since the season finish and people start to forget how exactly every player played in games. Last season people mentioned you a lot, when Valencia was owning teams left and right. And, of course, you couldn't stick your nose up with that ******** about Valencia as it would've been hilarious at that time. Well done on spectacularly missing the point. I didn't say Nani performed better than Valencia last season. I said Nani is a better player than Valencia, which he is. I haven't forgotten last season at all, I know exactly how our squad played throughout the season. Valencia had a very good season but he wasn't our best player, Evans was in my opinion & that of many other people. Then there is Carrick too who is always undervalued even when on top of his game. As for Valencia being a one trick pony, he is. He has one move, he does it every time. Yes he's pretty good at it but when it doesn't work he ends up being totally ineffective. People don't seem to remember these games though. Or how frustrating he is when he stops dead, passes the ball sideways or backwards & then stands there not moving instead of looking for space or a return pass. Then you have the fact that Valencia can play one position & one position only. This means our best attacking threat (Nani) has to play out of position on the left. This leads to Nani getting slagged off when he has a poor game despite the fact it's his talent & flexibility that even allows him to be played there in the first place. The other issue with this is that we have Young who plays from the left (& now Kagawa no doubt). This is what worries me slightly about the Nani contract situation. He would be a guaranteed starter in his preferred position at practically any other club in European football. Yet if he stays at United & signs a deal he will have to put up with rotation (not saying rotation isn't needed to a certain degree) & being moved about to fit other inferior players into the team. Couldn't really blame him if he wanted to leave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man11 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Don't think that keeper we have "signed" exists, I was suspicious earlier but everybody jumped on it so I went with it. There is very little of him about the internet and the keeper who plays for the Juvenil A which he is supposed to is David Gil. Haven't followed any of this but David Gil most definitely exists. :confused: Is supposed to be really highly rated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Haven't followed any of this but David Gil most definitely exists. :confused: Is supposed to be really highly rated. Yeah, but he wasn't the keeper in question Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man11 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 That shows how little I followed any of that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 He wasn't even our best player People don't seem to remember how average he can be when his one trick doesn't work. He's a one trick pony who happens to have quite an effective trick. Is he better than Nani? Hell no. Yes, last season he was better than Nani. It's all cool to brag about "one-trick pony", after a few months past since the season finish and people start to forget how exactly every player played in games. Last season people mentioned you a lot, when Valencia was owning teams left and right. And, of course, you couldn't stick your nose up with that ******** about Valencia as it would've been hilarious at that time. Fwiw everyone had their ups and downs last season. Injuries were part of it but at the end of the day neither Nani or Valencia were gonna be in good form all the time. What a joy that would be to see Nani and Valencia at top form at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Sky Sports Understands: Amos on loan to Hull. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 First game moved to Monday, ********. Sodding travelling to Merseyside on a Monday night FFS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Valencia hasn't had an injury free season in ages, there is no reason why he can't do the shirt justice if he avoids injuries. It wont be hard to out-do Keith Gillespie or Michael Owen, the difference between him and either of them is bigger than the difference between Valencia and Ronaldo. No guarantee he'll avoid injuries though, given the one he had at the start of last season was related to his serious injury the year before. When he's been fit he's never shown anything to suggest he'll break from the cycle of being mostly solid but unspectacular, with occasional purple patches and the odd spell of poor form. While Owen was obviously a shocker, he had (and arguably still has) a bigger profile than Valencia. His situation wasn't as dissimilar to Valencia's as you seem to be making out - one of three players vying for two starting positions; arguably the weakest on paper in terms of sheer ability but with key attributes and a playing style that make him an asset to the squad. Had Owen progressed from the winner against city and the Villa goal then he may have gone some way towards justifying the shirt - I can't see Valencia ever becoming an iconic figure in that respect. Personally I think that Valencia not having the shirt in the first place for whatever reason suggests we thought we could have someone better; that he's now got it suggests we've revised our expectations downwards. Though none of that explains where Keith Gillespie comes into it And yeah, Carrick and Evans were our best players last season. Valencia had two outstanding months or so towards the back end and was injured (or recovering from) or just 'good' for the rest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryseaess Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Why do our fixtures always get moved? First game at Everton on a Monday night ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Why do our fixtures always get moved? First game at Everton on a Monday night ffs. Because they are on tv? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 No guarantee he'll avoid injuries though, given the one he had at the start of last season was related to his serious injury the year before. When he's been fit he's never shown anything to suggest he'll break from the cycle of being mostly solid but unspectacular, with occasional purple patches and the odd spell of poor form. Which player have you been watching? If 13 assists in 27 games is 'mostly solid' then I despair for you... While Owen was obviously a shocker, he had (and arguably still has) a bigger profile than Valencia. His situation wasn't as dissimilar to Valencia's as you seem to be making out - one of three players vying for two starting positions; arguably the weakest on paper in terms of sheer ability but with key attributes and a playing style that make him an asset to the squad. Had Owen progressed from the winner against city and the Villa goal then he may have gone some way towards justifying the shirt - I can't see Valencia ever becoming an iconic figure in that respect. That is, with some margin, the most stupid thing I've ever seen in a Manchester United thread. I'd love to know who this winger other than Nani is with more ability than Valencia because if you say Ashley Young I will find you and hurt you. You need to stop comparing Valencia to Owen, it's moronic and even Coldberg wouldn't try to justify something like that. They aren't in the same stratosphere in terms of contribution, ability or anything else. Personally I think that Valencia not having the shirt in the first place for whatever reason suggests we thought we could have someone better; that he's now got it suggests we've revised our expectations downwards. Or Valencia has exceeded expectations and has earned it, like Beckham did. Though none of that explains where Keith Gillespie comes into it He wore the No. 7 shirt for a while in the really early 90's when it went on position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
14AlanSmithifb Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Well done on spectacularly missing the point. I didn't say Nani performed better than Valencia last season. I said Nani is a better player than Valencia, which he is. I haven't forgotten last season at all, I know exactly how our squad played throughout the season. Valencia had a very good season but he wasn't our best player, Evans was in my opinion & that of many other people. Then there is Carrick too who is always undervalued even when on top of his game.As for Valencia being a one trick pony, he is. He has one move, he does it every time. Yes he's pretty good at it but when it doesn't work he ends up being totally ineffective. People don't seem to remember these games though. Or how frustrating he is when he stops dead, passes the ball sideways or backwards & then stands there not moving instead of looking for space or a return pass. Then you have the fact that Valencia can play one position & one position only. This means our best attacking threat (Nani) has to play out of position on the left. This leads to Nani getting slagged off when he has a poor game despite the fact it's his talent & flexibility that even allows him to be played there in the first place. The other issue with this is that we have Young who plays from the left (& now Kagawa no doubt). This is what worries me slightly about the Nani contract situation. He would be a guaranteed starter in his preferred position at practically any other club in European football. Yet if he stays at United & signs a deal he will have to put up with rotation (not saying rotation isn't needed to a certain degree) & being moved about to fit other inferior players into the team. Couldn't really blame him if he wanted to leave. Agree completely word for word, don't get me wrong i'm not putting down Tony V but some people seem to have a soft spot for him and seem to completely forget how utterly frustrating he can become when his 'trick' isn't working (as can Nani, but Nani takes a shed-load more stick for it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Just to throw it out there given the news from today. Van Persie anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Just to throw it out there given the news from today. Van Persie anyone? We can't offload Berbatov,we can't lure a decent CM, we are launching an IPO to get a measly £64m and we still need at least £20m to get the "worlds best leftback" (Sources: Zaitsev 2012) No thanks to RVP, with HIS injury record and OUR injury record....he will play 2 games and never be seen again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 We can't offload Berbatov,we can't lure a decent CM, we are launching an IPO to get a measly £64m and we still need at least £20m to get the "worlds best leftback" (Sources: Zaitsev 2012)No thanks to RVP, with HIS injury record and OUR injury record....he will play 2 games and never be seen again. Nowhere near being true fwiw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The figure bandied about now is simply a placeholder figure, it will likely be at least three times higher when the IPO actually happens. Think it's 60 or 90 days until the final number has to be set? Can't remember what Andersred said about timing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The figure bandied about now is simply a placeholder figure, it will likely be at least three times higher when the IPO actually happens. Think it's 60 or 90 days until the final number has to be set? Can't remember what Andersred said about timing I know how IPOs work and if i did not i would be failing a lot of big exams at the end of the month I was over stressing a point but don't let the desire for one-upmanship get in the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I know how IPOs work and if i did not i would be failing a lot of big exams at the end of the month I was over stressing a point but don't let the desire for one-upmanship get in the way. Wait, so you were intentionally maintaining a complete falsehood and then have the audacity to throw me a rolleyes smiley? That is just not on ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I thought that referring to Baines as the worlds best leftback would have given it away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Which player have you been watching? If 13 assists in 27 games is 'mostly solid' then I despair for you... Well more than half of his assists came in a three week, five game spell; all but one against sides that finished in the bottom six (of his remaining assists, only 2 came against sides that finished above 15th). I reckon a player who racks up more than half of a key stat in less than a fifth of their games is a pretty decent example of a reliable if unspectacular player who goes through patches of exceptional form. That's before considering that it's possible to register assists without playing well (as with the Rooney conundrum); and that 'solid' isn't pejorative. That is, with some margin, the most stupid thing I've ever seen in a Manchester United thread. I'd love to know who this winger other than Nani is with more ability than Valencia because if you say Ashley Young I will find you and hurt you. You need to stop comparing Valencia to Owen, it's moronic and even Coldberg wouldn't try to justify something like that. They aren't in the same stratosphere in terms of contribution, ability or anything else. Well you've not been reading to closely Young at his best is better than Valencia at his best, but Valencia has a higher average. Young got 10 goals or assists against sides in the top half last season but went missing for long periods. It's horses for courses on the wings really - Valencia is useful for stretching the deep, compact defenses of weaker sides and you gamble with Young in the hope that he'll come up with something special when it's needed against the better sides. You need to stop comparing Valencia to Owen, it's moronic and even Coldberg wouldn't try to justify something like that. They aren't in the same stratosphere in terms of contribution, ability or anything else. I compared them in terms of their squad position (at the time of Owen's signing) and their broader profile. Valencia's obviously lightyears ahead of Owen on the pitch. Or Valencia has exceeded expectations and has earned it, like Beckham did. Not really a straight comparison is it? Becks had always clamoured for the shirt and was already an established first choice pick with the squad number to match. He wore the No. 7 shirt for a while in the really early 90's when it went on position. Well that's just deliberately missing the point We're talking about players who had become synonymous with the shirt pre-93 and those who have been awarded it since, as well you know. Nevermind that Gillespie had started just one FA Cup tie (in 93) before the 93/94 season when he was awarded #31. Presumably the 94/95 League Cup was still numbered 1-11, but still, no-one's suggesting that Valencia is humbled at the prospect of following in Phil Mulryne's footsteps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Sky Sports Understands: Amos on loan to Hull. Being Hull it probably means: Amos transfer to Hull in July 2013. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Over stressing a point that the IPO wouldn't make much headway into our debt when in fact it would? Odd point to stress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Over stressing a point that the IPO wouldn't make much headway into our debt when in fact it would? Odd point to stress. You really choose to be thick sometimes? Reading a few articles on a blog does not make you a psychic mate. I have constantly been following the IPO and i am sure i have posted a huge amount of stuff regarding it since the talk started. An IPO that works would make great headway into our debt, the Glazers are not psychic and do not know if the IPO will work hence the filing being done this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerChris Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Being Hull it probably means: Amos transfer to Hull in July 2013. Joke makes no sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Well more than half of his assists came in a three week, five game spell; all but one against sides that finished in the bottom six (of his remaining assists, only 2 came against sides that finished above 15th). I reckon a player who racks up more than half of a key stat in less than a fifth of their games is a pretty decent example of a reliable if unspectacular player who goes through patches of exceptional form. That's before considering that it's possible to register assists without playing well (as with the Rooney conundrum); and that 'solid' isn't pejorative.Well you've not been reading to closely Young at his best is better than Valencia at his best, but Valencia has a higher average. Young got 10 goals or assists against sides in the top half last season but went missing for long periods. It's horses for courses on the wings really - Valencia is useful for stretching the deep, compact defenses of weaker sides and you gamble with Young in the hope that he'll come up with something special when it's needed against the better sides. Absolutely rubbish, Valencia has turned over plenty of big sides in his time here. Young ruining Arsenal when they had half a squad missing isn't anything to brag about. There is no way in hell Young is better than Valencia at his best, even if we got a left winger do you really think Young would start over Valencia? Just no. Our best set up is with Nani on the left and Valencia on the right. I compared them in terms of their squad position (at the time of Owen's signing) and their broader profile. Valencia's obviously lightyears ahead of Owen on the pitch. Valencia isn't anywhere near Owen in terms of squad position, he made about 15 starts in his best season at United, Valencia has only managed less than that the season his leg fell off. What does his broader profile have to do with it? Not really a straight comparison is it? Becks had always clamoured for the shirt and was already an established first choice pick with the squad number to match. And Valencia didn't ask for it this time? Oh and he is an established first pick, he's guaranteed 40 appearances next season unless Rooney, Evra or Carrick wanted it I don't see how much more a reliable selection do you wanted? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 You really choose to be thick sometimes?Reading a few articles on a blog does not make you a psychic mate. I have constantly been following the IPO and i am sure i have posted a huge amount of stuff regarding it since the talk started. An IPO that works would make great headway into our debt, the Glazers are not psychic and do not know if the IPO will work hence the filing being done this way. I was laughing at the fact you suggested the target was £64m when it clearly isn't. Of course the IPO could **** up, it doesn't mean the target has ever been $100m. You can tell by your reaction to both me and Icelander that you made a booboo using the placeholder figure, just fess up and take the 2 posts worth of mockery it happens to the best of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 We can't offload Berbatov,we can't lure a decent CM, we are launching an IPO to get a measly £64m and we still need at least £20m to get the "worlds best leftback" (Sources: Zaitsev 2012)No thanks to RVP, with HIS injury record and OUR injury record....he will play 2 games and never be seen again. Hey Dion, read this and tell me why you and Ice saw everything else i wrote as tongue in cheek but assumed that i was serious about the IPO. Internet one-upmanship at its finest, carry on arguing with RSB and Coldberg mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Hey Dion, read this and tell me why you and Ice saw everything else i wrote as tongue in cheek but assumed that i was serious about the IPO. I didn't see any of it as tongue in cheek, it actually seems like a rather depressingly accurate (as usual) summary of our current financial muscle. The only issue is the use of a place holder fee instead of saying "and there's a good chance the IPO could go tits up as well". Internet one-upmanship at its finest, carry on arguing with RSB and Coldberg mate. Arguing with Coldberg? Me and Coldberg see eye to eye on everything, I never argue with Coldberg. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Absolutely rubbish, Valencia has turned over plenty of big sides in his time here. Young ruining Arsenal when they had half a squad missing isn't anything to brag about. There is no way in hell Young is better than Valencia at his best, even if we got a left winger do you really think Young would start over Valencia? Just no. Our best set up is with Nani on the left and Valencia on the right. Again, just providing the facts. Young would start some games and Valencia others, depending on the opposition. Tough comparison anyway given how little Young has played on the left; it's more about how Nani is used. Valencia isn't anywhere near Owen in terms of squad position, he made about 15 starts in his best season at United, Valencia has only managed less than that the season his leg fell off. What does his broader profile have to do with it? Again, an unfair comparison to cite Valencia's injury but not Owen's The broader profile has to do with the iconography associated with the shirt, as I've been saying all along. And Valencia didn't ask for it this time? Oh and he is an established first pick, he's guaranteed 40 appearances next season unless Rooney, Evra or Carrick wanted it I don't see how much more a reliable selection do you wanted? Don't understand the bolded part - are you saying he didn't ask for it (he did), or that him asking for it is relevant somehow? Because it doesn't explain why he didn't get it initially. And he's obviously not a guaranteed starter - he's rotating with Nani, Young and occaisionally Park and Giggs. Jones made 40 appearances last season - doesn't make him a nailed on starter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Didn't see any of that as particularly tongue in cheek tbf, apart from the Baines part We can't shift Berba, seemingly. We are (so far) not near signing anything resembling a decent midfielder either. So one part of four being a bit of a **** take didn't mean a second one automatically became tongue in cheek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I didn't see any of it as tongue in cheek, it actually seems like a rather depressingly accurate (as usual) summary of our current financial muscle. The only issue is the use of a place holder fee instead of saying "and there's a good chance the IPO could go tits up as well". Yeah, tbf us struggling to flog Berbs and bring in a CM is pretty nob on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Again, an unfair comparison to cite Valencia's injury but not Owen's The broader profile has to do with the iconography associated with the shirt, as I've been saying all along. Because Owen is a) injury prone and b) even when was fit was a bench warmer regardless. Valencia's profile now is bigger than Owens was when we signed him, people actually regard Valencia as a good player for a kick off. Don't understand the bolded part - are you saying he didn't ask for it (he did), or that him asking for it is relevant somehow? Because it doesn't explain why he didn't get it initially. And he's obviously not a guaranteed starter - he's rotating with Nani, Young and occaisionally Park and Giggs. Jones made 40 appearances last season - doesn't make him a nailed on starter. He did ask for it. Maybe they didn't feel he was ready for it and they do now, maybe he didn't feel ready for it but does now? His profile, ability and whatever other measure you want to use has improved massively since he joined us. When was the last time Young, Giggs or Park started on the right? Jones made 41 appearances because he plays in a million different positions, all of which had pretty heavy injury crisis', Valencia made 38 in one position despite pretty big injury lay-offs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheps. Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 **** me should I crack open a fresh box of tampons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Didn't see any of that as particularly tongue in cheek tbf, apart from the Baines part We can't shift Berba, seemingly. We are (so far) not near signing anything resembling a decent midfielder either. So one part of four being a bit of a **** take didn't mean a second one automatically became tongue in cheek I doubt we have bid for a CM this summer tbh, we are almost ignoring any players that play there. I think SAF does not see it as a priority judging by how he has chased Sneijder, Hazard(?) and Kagawa (all AMs). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Because Owen is a) injury prone and b) even when was fit was a bench warmer regardless. Valencia's profile now is bigger than Owens was when we signed him, people actually regard Valencia as a good player for a kick off. I reckon more casual/non-fans globally know of Owen rather than Valencia. Owen has more transcendental crossover appeal than Valencia. He did ask for it. Maybe they didn't feel he was ready for it and they do now, maybe he didn't feel ready for it but does now? His profile, ability and whatever other measure you want to use has improved massively since he joined us. While our expectations and appeal have declined. If Tony is such a talisman now, why wasn't he offered it before Kagawa? When was the last time Young, Giggs or Park started on the right? I actually said this ffs! It's contingent on Nani. Christ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 I reckon more casual/non-fans globally know of Owen rather than Valencia. Owen has more transcendental crossover appeal than Valencia. So we should have given it to Park really? While our expectations and appeal have declined. If Tony is such a talisman now, why wasn't he offered it before Kagawa? Maybe he was waiting to see if they wanted to save it for a new signing before he put himself forward? This guessing is pointless, you're insistent on the idea that we can't fill the number 7 shirt with a special player despite the fact Fergie has said he wants to take away the aura around it after Ronaldo. He could have given it to Welbeck but the hype would have been ridiculous, instead he's giving it to a player who has earned it and will do it justice without all the extra unnecessary stuff. I actually said this ffs! It's contingent on Nani. Christ. There is very little actual rotation though, if Nani and Valencia are fit they generally play and are both obvious first choices. Occasionally when Fergie wants to do something stupid he plays Park on the left and picks Valencia or Nani depending on form/fitness but otherwise those two are the clear first picks on the wings. If they all avoid injuries next season Nani and Valencia will start far more than any of the others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Maybe he was waiting to see if they wanted to save it for a new signing before he put himself forward? This guessing is pointless, you're insistent on the idea that we can't fill the number 7 shirt with a special player despite the fact Fergie has said he wants to take away the aura around it after Ronaldo. He could have given it to Welbeck but the hype would have been ridiculous, instead he's giving it to a player who has earned it and will do it justice without all the extra unnecessary stuff. Agree with you both actually, but especially this. Think SAF is trying to reduce the pressure of playing with #7, in giving it to Owen, clearly not nearly the kind of player who has had it recently. Valencia is a pretty good player, but nowhere near Ronaldo, Beckham, Cantona, nor as good as Nani (IMO). Give that shirt to a tricky winger, though, and the Ronaldo comparisons will never end. Especially by giving it to Nani. He struggled enough while he was here, he doesn't have to walk in his shadow when he's gone too. If we could magically remove this 'pressure' with the shirt, though, Nani or Kagawa would be the natural heirs in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, Valencia can destroy teams on his day, but deny him space and play compact and he can almost be a waste of space. Nani and Young have more to their game than Valencia. However, we shouldn't forget that the United players voted him best player last season. That does say something about his standing, and how well he did in fact play last season. I think Carrick and Evans were better and more important, but Valencia did have a pretty good season, though that impression is probably strengthened by doing well at the end of the season. The bottom line is that we are incredibly strong on the wings and have different types of players. That is a great strength. If Valencia doesn't work, we can throw on Nani, or put Young on and shift Nani right. This gives us great versatility and we can change a game with one sub. Just wish we had that in the middle of the park too :| Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I have to agree with you, Pangaea. If I remember, didn't SAF give Roanldo the 7 shirt because he said that Ron had the talent to make it his own (or words to that effect)? He is definitely going the opposite route now and trying to have it just like any other number until (I'm assuming) someone naturally comes along that will be "worthy". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The bottom line is that we are incredibly strong on the wings and have different types of players. That is a great strength. If Valencia doesn't work, we can throw on Nani, or put Young on and shift Nani right. This gives us great versatility and we can change a game with one sub. Just wish we had that in the middle of the park too :| Well you have Park Ji-Sung in the middle of course! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 So now Zeki Fryers has turned his back on us and joined Spurs where he was offered 20k pw http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/07/05/3223054/fryers-ready-to-quit-manchester-united-for-tottenham?source=breakingnews Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Not a chance in hell he's getting 20k per week at Spurs ffs He's nowhere near that, half of it would be quite good for him atm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Whether it is true or not (wages) it is becoming quite a concern that these highly rated players are turning their back on us. Never happened before with the youth coming through to the extent as now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Fryers has Evra ahead of him, Fabio at the very least on par with him and the rumours we are searching for a new left back. At Spurs he'll have Assou-Ekotto and...? That's it? Can't remember if Rose is a full back or a midfielder atm. If he's going to Spurs I'd assume it was for the right reasons, slightly differing from Pogba Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 "straight into the first team" ...Really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheps. Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Good luck to him if that is what they have offered him. I wouldn't offer that. Clears the path for Blackett somewhat anyway. (Not that I believe Goal.com ever) This. Blackett looks to have much more potential, although I really liked what I saw of Fryers for the first team (never actually saw him play for the reserves funnily enough). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 "straight into the first team"...Really? No way he's getting past BAE without actually earning it. League cup/Europa league maybe but not a chance he'll be starting in the league Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 No way he's getting past BAE without actually earning it. League cup/Europa league maybe but not a chance he'll be starting in the league That's what I thought. That *cough*article*cough* has it sounding like he'll be pushing BAE all the way over being first choice left back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 "straight into the first team"...Really? You missed the word squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Not sure how true the money issue is but I would believe so if AVB is putting him straight in the first team and the move is understandable IMO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 So we should have given it to Park really? No but thanks for yet again taking my comments out of context rather than actually discussing the point. That line of thought was in reference to comparing Owen versus Valencia; why Owen was an understandable gamble despite his significant on-field inferiority in comparison to Valencia. Maybe he was waiting to see if they wanted to save it for a new signing before he put himself forward? This guessing is pointless, you're insistent on the idea that we can't fill the number 7 shirt with a special player despite the fact Fergie has said he wants to take away the aura around it after Ronaldo. He could have given it to Welbeck but the hype would have been ridiculous, instead he's giving it to a player who has earned it and will do it justice without all the extra unnecessary stuff. I'm not insistent, I'm hypothesising. But Ferguson saying he wants to take away the aura I'd file next to 'no value in the market' and just behind 'the Glazers are terrific owners'. If he'd've got Benzema, Villa or Sneijder and they didn't have another preference, they'd've had it, aura and all. There is very little actual rotation though, if Nani and Valencia are fit they generally play and are both obvious first choices. Occasionally when Fergie wants to do something stupid he plays Park on the left and picks Valencia or Nani depending on form/fitness but otherwise those two are the clear first picks on the wings. If they all avoid injuries next season Nani and Valencia will start far more than any of the others. Just don't agree with this. Hard to tell conclusively due to Valencia and Young's availability last season, but I can't see us spending £16m on a player in his mid-20s in the final year of his contract only as a back-up. They'll be rotated based upon the tactical requirements. However, we shouldn't forget that the United players voted him best player last season. That does say something about his standing, and how well he did in fact play last season. I think Carrick and Evans were better and more important, but Valencia did have a pretty good season, though that impression is probably strengthened by doing well at the end of the season. I do wonder whether there was something of a split vote with there not being much between Carrick and Evans. Valencia maybe to us last year as Ginola was to the PFA and FWA in '99. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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