cpfc543

Aaron Ramsey - PA Spoilers

156 posts in this topic

Why does he have such a high PA on this game? His PA is 198 which he has reached in my save at the age of just 24 and is now the best player in the world. How is it even possible?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's -10, that means he gets a random PA between 170 and 200 at the start of each save.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He doesn't always have it that high potential of 175 on mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-10 was allocated to him because of the fact that he has spent such a long time out injured and so the researchers couldn't determine a definite PA. This means that he will be given a PA from 170-200 upon starting a new game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok fair enough. Thanks for the quick responses guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i still find it unfair how he's the only player in FM with a PA of -10. even arsenal fans don't think he's THAT good

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure since the transfer update patch he has been given a fixed PA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That he was ever given -10 is ridiculous. The Arsenal user can train that guy into the best CM in the world, which he clearly never would have been. He's got a worse PA than Bale now(?who's PA is too high aswell I admit).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So how do you guys play him??

I use him mostly as an Advanced Playmaker Support and rarely as a CM S/A but with little success.

Has any of you got his attributes to shoot up?

I'm in season 3 btw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nocuous

The reasearchers are volunteers who do the job under guidelines and information/ review of the head researchers , so dont need this type of personal attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nocuous

The reasearchers are volunteers who do the job under guidelines and information/ review of the head researchers , so dont need this type of personal attack.

He's being a tool on another thread as well. Just my opinion but I dont think these kinds of people should be allowed to stay here and get away with being abusive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nocuous

The reasearchers are volunteers who do the job under guidelines and information/ review of the head researchers , so dont need this type of personal attack.

You've sacked researchers in the past haven't you? The Portuguese guy who made To Madeira. The Lazio/Cisco Roma researcher that also made up some players. So surely you're able to get rid of a researcher when they don't do their job properly. To be honest I think SI would do well to make the research team in general a more professional operation (obviously not paying each individual researcher, but perhaps hold them to higher standards, and have a team to iron out any mistakes they might make). I'm sorry but the mere fact that Ramsey can become the best player in the World on FM 12 just really should not be tolerated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sure that reserachers are replaced if they break the guidelines given,, but much of their other input about player attributes and potential is a judgement, based on their opinion, which is usually given becaus of an in depth knowledge of the team and players involved. This opinion is already seen by other researchers and SI staff so unless it is quite blatantly an error, will be subject to one users opinion over another- so who is to say what is right and wrong, if it opinion only and not a fact? If users think that any opinion is incorrect, they can raise this in the Data Issues thread along with documentation to support their view and this will be considered by the research team at review time. By all means raise your concerns about any issue, but please do not reduce it to personal criticism of the researchers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the case of Aaron Ramsey, he was seen before his leg break as a -10 PA player. Potentially a world beater. Then the leg break at Stoke happened and for the next edition he was given the same rating, simply because nobody can really say how he would recover as by that time he hadn't played. You can't make changes just on assumptions, you need to see the player play. Now that he's returned and played more often, it has been concluded that he is less likely to become a world class CM and his PA has been adjusted accordingly. That's how I see the whole thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd argue that his original -10 PA was very optimistic before the injury.

This is an unqualified subjective opinion but I do tend to think that the English club researchers above all other nations in the game & in particular those of the top teams can get a little carried away when assessing the PA of young players, the problem is that it is almost impossible to call people out on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm sorry but the mere fact that Ramsey can become the best player in the World on FM 12 just really should not be tolerated.

Why can't he become the best player in the world? He's playing for one of the best teams in England. He's young. Has a very bright future.

Nobody here, or could possibly know what his future has in store for him.

There have been players that didn't have a burst in their Curent Ability in the past. Ian Wright and David Platt both blossomed around 23 or 24 years of age.

It would be a tragedy if young players currently getting first team football in the best teams in the world NEVER had the potential to become the best players in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that in FM the negative influences that prevent many players from reaching their early promise have very little impact, no one is saying NEVER, just less often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why can't he become the best player in the world? He's playing for one of the best teams in England. He's young. Has a very bright future.

Nobody here, or could possibly know what his future has in store for him.

There have been players that didn't have a burst in their Curent Ability in the past. Ian Wright and David Platt both blossomed around 23 or 24 years of age.

It would be a tragedy if young players currently getting first team football in the best teams in the world NEVER had the potential to become the best players in the world.

Oh please. Do you really believe that Ramsey has the potential ability to become as good as Xavi or Iniesta? He will go onto become a good player (baring any more major injuries), do well for Arsenal or whatever team he plays for in the future, but he will never be one of the top 10 players in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's not what I said, I never mentioned Xavi or Inestia

And you don't know if he'll be a good player or a World class player. The game has him as a -10, that's giving him a potential of between 170 and 200.

He in some games you start he'll be a world class player, and others he'll be a good player. Depending on where the roullette lands for him.

I think that's fair to give a young player playing for a top club in the world that in some Game Saves he'll be good and others he'll be very good and in others he'll be world class.

What's wrong with that? And there's nothing to say that he will ever reach that PA.

In regards to the comparison to Xavi or Inestia - I never mentioned them.

But now that you have, take a look at their career stats up to the age of 21 and then make a comparison to Ramsey's stats up to the age of 21.

Similar - aren't they...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure in the next version of the game that he'll be given a solid PA - that can be disputed then.

At the moment, he does have the potential to be a good player (PA 170+) or a very good player (PA 180+) or a world class player (PA 190+).

The game reflects this by randomising it with a PA of -10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh please. Do you really believe that Ramsey has the potential ability to become as good as Xavi or Iniesta? He will go onto become a good player (baring any more major injuries), do well for Arsenal or whatever team he plays for in the future, but he will never be one of the top 10 players in the world.
Can you guarantee it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about Claude Makele - he played with Celta Vigo and was largely unknown until he signed for Real Madrid, at the age of 27. Then joining Chelsea for 16.5m at the age of 31. Undoubtly one of the best central midfielders of his generation.

He stood out in the Real Madrid side as one of the best in Spain - that's playing alongside Zinédine Zidane, Luís Figo, Raúl, Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Steve McManaman, and Guti.

Still not good enough reason to give a young player a high PA?

What about Forlan, Berbatov, Wright, Platt.

Tony Adams was 23 before he became an unstoppable force for Arsenal's defence.

Luca Toni?

Ferenc?

Stanley Matthews?

ALL players who had the potential to become world class players - and did so fairly late in their careers.

There's no reason why a young player cannot have the potential to be the best player in the world.

There is nothing to say that Ramsey will not become the best player in the world in 4 or 5 years time.

And there's nothing to guarantee that he will - he could just as well turn out to be an average Joe.

And the game reflects this - by giving him a random PA of 170 - 200 at the start of each game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makele was unheralded in his early career because his abilities didn't fit with the style of play, there's a reason why the deep holding midfield role is referred to as the Makele role.

Ian Wright was passed by because he lacked discipline, once he grew up his talent for scoring goals came to the fore but he did get a lucky break in signing for Crystal Palace.

Forlan had an excellent record as soon as he left Manchester United & moved to more a more familiar culture, he wasn't too bad before the move to United either.

Berbatov was considered a very good talent in his early 20's, wiki has him scoring 16 goals in a season as a 20 year old at B.Leverkusen & he managed the feat twice at Sofia as a scrawny teenager, definite late bloomer there.

Tony Adams was at the time the youngest ever captain of Arsenal so hardly a late bloomer.

Luca Toni? You're having a laugh.

Stanley Matthews & I assume you're referring to Puskas, both true legends of the game & are players from a very different era which is exemplified by the fact Matthews was still playing at the age of 50, neither however were late bloomers.

btw I don't disagree that some players reach the top tier of the game later in their careers, you just picked some really, really bad examples.

I will give you David Platt as a fairly good example although I do not think he was that old in 1990 & is a better examlpe of one club missing his talent at a young age.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Luca Toni isn't a joke. He was a fairly average Serie A striker until 2004, when his goal tallies then skyrocketed to 30 in 47, 21 in 36, 33 in 42 and 16 in 29, earning him a move to Bayern Munich, where he scored 39 in 46. If that isn't a late-bloomer, then I don't know what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

btw I don't disagree that some players reach the top tier of the game later in their careers, you just picked some really, really bad examples.

I did not - I picked the best examples.

Some players reach the top of their game, some do it early, some do it late, some do it for a small span of their career.

Like Ronaldinho, clearly one of the best players ever, until he suddenly stopped being great before he even turned 30.

The whole point was - some players who were not really on peoples radars, either young, or later on in their careers, suddenly were at the top of the world of footballers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason I scoffed at Luca Toni is that Italian clubs have a history of holding back their youth players, unless you're a truly prodigious talent the chances of breaking into a Serie A side before you're 23/24 was & still is quite low.

I did not - I picked the best examples.

Some players reach the top of their game, some do it early, some do it late, some do it for a small span of their career.

Like Ronaldinho, clearly one of the best players ever, until he suddenly stopped being great before he even turned 30.

The whole point was - some players who were not really on peoples radars, either young, or later on in their careers, suddenly were at the top of the world of footballers.

You're post came across as if you were using those players as examples of people who bumbled about before their careers took off in their late 20's.

Sorry if I misunderstood the context of what you wrote although most of the players you mentioned were at the top of their game for their entire career.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still though Luca Toni is a good example.

Stanley Mathews didn't win his first major honours until 1953 - when he was 38.

FWA Footballer of the Year: 1948, 1963

European Footballer of the Year: 1956

That's extremely late in your career to be winning world best players awards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Still though Luca Toni is a good example.

Stanley Mathews didn't win his first major honours until 1953 - when he was 38.

FWA Footballer of the Year: 1948, 1963

European Footballer of the Year: 1956

That's extremely late in your career to be winning world best players awards.

I think a certain little scuffle that got out of hand stalled a good part of Matthew's career & I'm not sure how much early the awards you mention were given out.

We'll agree to disagree on Luca Toni.

Wiki update: Matthews was the first ever winner of the European Footballer of the Year & Football Writer's Footballer of the Year awards, talk about trying to portray the facts in a way to suit your position & of course his lack of winners medals is largely down to the way people approached a career in football before the 1960's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The reason I scoffed at Luca Toni is that Italian clubs have a history of holding back their youth players, unless you're a truly prodigious talent the chances of breaking into a Serie A side before you're 23/24 was & still is quite low.
Luca Toni wasn't held back. He bumbled about in the lower leagues as a first-teamer early-on in his career, before moving to Serie B and Serie A and displaying solid, if unspectacular performances. Then he hit 30 in 47 in Serie B and never looked back.

He never was at a big club as a youngster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess my reason for scoffing, much like your post about him being an average Serie A player prior to 2004 was off base in terms of Luca Toni, might be a better example than I initially gave credit for, possibly similar to Ian Wright were the talent was there but the attitude was not right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think a certain little scuffle that got out of hand stalled a good part of Matthew's career & I'm not sure how much early the awards you mention were given out.

We'll agree to disagree on Luca Toni.

Wiki update: Matthews was the first ever winner of the European Footballer of the Year & Football Writer's Footballer of the Year awards, talk about trying to portray the facts in a way to suit your position & of course his lack of winners medals is largely down to the way people approached a career in football before the 1960's.

NO weird portrayl of the facts at all. He was born in 1915 and didn't win a majorly recognised award until his late 30's. I know he had a bizzarre career.

But still. It's a good point.

Who knows, Ramsey could have a career of average unrecognised ability and when he hits 30's he might get an award who knows.

He might not ever get a balon d'or or writers players of the year or anything.

But he certainly has the potential to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you seem, most of you to be missing the point. What, in all honesty, have we seen in Ramsey that would lead anyone to believe that he has the potential to become the very best, the absolute best, player in the world? That is what a -10 PA is for. I mentioned Xavi & Iniesta as they are the benchmark. They are the best midfielders in the world right now.

A -10 is, or at least should be, reserved for a player that has the potential to be the best player in the world. I don't see how anyone can argue that Ramsey has ever shown that potential. He never has. He played a year in the championship championship and has then spent the large parts of his career out injured.

All the players you have listed, should any of them ever have been given a -10? Platt, Berbatov, Adams etc, all good ​players, perhaps even great players. None of them, not one, could or would be classed as potentially the best player in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can you guarantee it?

Can you highlight what he has done to demonstrate the fact that as to why he is given a -10 (potentially the best player in the world)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But you seem, most of you to be missing the point. What, in all honesty, have we seen in Ramsey that would lead anyone to believe that he has the potential to become the very best, the absolute best, player in the world?

He has very similar stats to that xavi and iniesta exhibited up to when they were 21.

And there's nothing saying he will become the very best. He has the potential to though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I mentioned Xavi & Iniesta as they are the benchmark. They are the best midfielders in the world right now.

Really? What about Messi, Ronaldo, Robben, Alonso, Di Maria, Gerrard, Lampard - and another 30 other players?

Somoene makes it to the top.

Why not Ramsey? I'm not saying he will, but he has the potential to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the players you have listed, should any of them ever have been given a -10? Platt, Berbatov, Adams etc, all good ​players, perhaps even great players. None of them, not one, could or would be classed as potentially the best player in the world.

You're telling me that Wright was not the best striker of his generation? Or Platt not the best midfielder of his?

Or perhaps at some point that something didn't click in Luca Toni's career to make him the best player in Italy?

There's a difference of becoming a good player, a very good player, a world class player, and a legend.

A lot of people I mentioned never went down as legends. Some did though. And those who did, were kinda late to the party.

So who knows what Ramsey has to offer? Perhaps we'll see a 170 or a 200 PA in reality.

But for now, we have no way to tell. He's definitely not an average player. He's got something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He has very similar stats to that xavi and iniesta exhibited up to when they were 21.

And there's nothing saying he will become the very best. He has the potential to though.

Really?

By the time Xavi was 21 he had already played 97 league games for Barcelona and had played in the Olympics and the World cup.

Iniesta had played 87 league games and was the best player for the spannish under-16 team that won the European championship. He also played for the under-19 tournament a year later. He was also in the Spain full squad at the world cup at 21.

So tell me how he has exhibited simlar stats please?

He has shown no evidence of having the potential to be the very best. He should go onto become a good, perhaps even a very good player (baring injury and illness), but not the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're telling me that Wright was not the best striker of his generation? Or Platt not the best midfielder of his?

Or perhaps at some point that something didn't click in Luca Toni's career to make him the best player in Italy?

There's a difference of becoming a good player, a very good player, a world class player, and a legend.

A lot of people I mentioned never went down as legends. Some did though. And those who did, were kinda late to the party.

So who knows what Ramsey has to offer? Perhaps we'll see a 170 or a 200 PA in reality.

But for now, we have no way to tell. He's definitely not an average player. He's got something.

I am telling you for certain that Ian Wright and David Platt were not ever the best players of their generation. Jesus, are you for real, or is this a wind-up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really?

By the time Xavi was 21 he had already played 97 league games for Barcelona and had played in the Olympics and the World cup.

Iniesta had played 87 league games and was the best player for the spannish under-16 team that won the European championship. He also played for the under-19 tournament a year later. He was also in the Spain full squad at the world cup at 21.

So tell me how he has exhibited simlar stats please?

He has shown no evidence of having the potential to be the very best. He should go onto become a good, perhaps even a very good player (baring injury and illness), but not the best.

Spain/Wales

Argument 1 quashed

Ramsey has played 67 league games for Arsenal

Xavi had played 61 games for Barcelona "SENIOR" team by age 21.

And goals and assists were sparse between both of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're comparison to Xavi and Ramsey is insane. It's like comparing Mozart to Handel.

Players of different generations, skills and style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so David Platt and Ian Wright were better than:

Paolo Maldini

Roberto Baggio

Romario

Ronaldo

Oliver Kahn

Raul

Dennis Bergkamp

Zinedine Zidane

If that is what you are saying, well, I think I know how you can come to the conclusion that Ramsey should be a -10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really?

By the time Xavi was 21 he had already played 97 league games for Barcelona and had played in the Olympics and the World cup.

Iniesta had played 87 league games and was the best player for the spannish under-16 team that won the European championship. He also played for the under-19 tournament a year later. He was also in the Spain full squad at the world cup at 21.

So tell me how he has exhibited simlar stats please?

Ramsey has played 67 league games for Arsenal, 27 for other clubs, and has spent a year out injured (probably equivalent to about 15 league matches given Fabregas was there last year- doubtless he'd have been used to rest Wilshire a bit though). He is the captain of his country and arguably Wales' best player. On the other hand, Wales are not Spain. Frankly international achievements are irrelevant because the nations they represent are so different.

I don't know about goals or assists or whatever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're comparison to Xavi and Ramsey is insane. It's like comparing Mozart to Handel.

Players of different generations, skills and style.

Players of different generations? Iniesta is 27. Ramsey is 21. Would hardly call them different generations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Left back

Stirker

Striker

Striker

Goalkeeper

Stiker

Striker

Midfielder

Will Ramsey be better than Zindane???

Who knows?

By 21 Zidane had

League 91 appearances and 17 goals.

I can't get a list of assists or match ratings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players of different generations? Iniesta is 27. Ramsey is 21. Would hardly call them different generations.

Eugene was clearly talking about comparing Xavi and Ramsey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players of different generations? Iniesta is 27. Ramsey is 21. Would hardly call them different generations.

Oh on the Iniesta bandwagon now.

Ok

Iniesta, by age 21m league appearances 54 appearances and 3 goals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eugene was clearly talking about comparing Xavi and Ramsey.

Thought it was clear there myself :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Left back

Stirker

Striker

Striker

Goalkeeper

Stiker

Striker

Midfielder

Will Ramsey be better than Zindane???

Who knows?

By 21 Zidane had

League 91 appearances and 17 goals.

I can't get a list of assists or match ratings.

No.You said Ian Wright was the best striker of his generation. You also said David Platt was the best midfielder. Just highlighting better Strikers and Midfielders. Okay a couple of full backs and a goalkeeper, but the rest stand. Wright and Platt were never the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh on the Iniesta bandwagon now.

Ok

Iniesta, by age 21m league appearances 54 appearances and 3 goals.

You need to check again please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.