Building a tactic set around 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-2-2-1 and what roles to use?

[DaLima9]

Hey guys

Inspired by the threads on the forum, I've decided to try and build new tactics refind my passion for the save and avoid burning out.

Background information:

I am 7 seasons in. I've been at West Ham (promoted), Juventus (2xSerie A + 1 cup) and the last 3 years at Man Utd (3 PrL titles of which 2 were very narrow/lucky, 1 ChL and two semi's, 2 FA Cups and a League Cup + various super cups, club championships, etc.).

I forsee a challenging season because:

a) Arsenal had a tycoon takeover and have invested huge sums in their squad the past 2 seasons - they will challenge for the title.

b) Man City has an extremely strong squad and I only beat them last season due to a 1-0 win at their stadion and them dropping in form the last few games of the season.

c) Chelsea are looking strong, they're only over-age in a couple of positions.

d) Tottenham just got taken over by a consortium who will most likely pump cash into signings to an already strong team - they finished 7th last year due to takeover and insecure manager turmoil.

e) Several of my players have wanted a new challange - including Fabio and Valencia (but he is getting old).

f) Rooney isn't performing af well now past 30.

On the upside I feel I got a strong side, but I am falling short on strong wingers but have alot of talent in attack.

My major stars this comming seasons will likely be:

- Hernandez, who just had a 42-goal season. Very good finisher with pace, but he lacks a little physically and should be a poacher/AdwForward.

- Neymar, who allways performs af AML/IF- and who I am looking to mold into a teraquista/DLF for the comming season.

- Niang who just turned 20 and had a brilliant loan stay at Real Madrid last season, great pace and good physics makes him capeable of many roles.

- Ozil who is a brilliant playmaker.

- Phil Jones who is a defensive monster wether playing defence or midfield.

- Papadopoulas whos mental attributes has matured, he stops anything in the central defence.

- De Gea in sharp competition with Szczeny (spelling), who will compete for clean sheets.

I feel in general that my squad is among the strongest in europe, thus I have faith that against most teams I can play offensive (while still defensively sound).

So I want something like:

- A pure 4-3-3 with an offensive setup, that focusses on getting the ball forward to the strikers and offensive MC. Where my right- and leftsided MC and SC are more defensively oriented/drop deeper/chase the opponent more, and my central MC and SC are more offensivly oriented. This tactic is mostly used in home matches and away where I am a solid favorite.

- A 4-2-3-1 with 2 MCs and AML/AMC/AMR which has a neutral/controlling setup and focusses on solid defence and ball possession. Basically not a huge variant of the 4-3-3, but with the MCs, AMC and at least 1 winger focussing on keeping posession. This tactic is mostly used at home against very strong oppositions and away where the matches look even.

- A 4-1-2-2-1 with a DMC, 2MCs and AML+AMR, that is set up defensively to keep posession and then striking the opponent on a counter. Packing the central defensive pits and spreading it out wide on offence.

What I am mainly looking for is input on how to set these 3 tactics up. I prefer going by what the creator allows combined with shouts, and I don't like playing around with individual instructions/sliders too much.

My ideas so far are:

- 4-3-3 should be fluid or very fluid to allow midfield and attack to support eachother more, with attacking as an outset mentality. There should be more pressing to focus on regaining posession, and the tactic should be wide to leave space for creative players to do their thing and avoid cluttering the centre. Passing hsould be focussed on getting the ball forward, with little timewasting and a faily fast tempo.

- 4-2-3-1 should be normal or fluid to avoid isolating the lone gunman up front and making sure the MCs help out on defence, with control or normal mentality as the outset. Pressing should be normal, and passing should be shorter. Time wasting and tempo I am a little in doubt about, as finding a good middle ground to keep possession can be a little tricky.

- 4-1-2-2-1 should be rigid to keep the defensive formation intact, and there should be less pressing in order to ensure my players do not get too tired. Passing style, tempo and width is where I am in doubt, as I don't want to leave all initiative to the opposition by being overly cautions.

Share your thoughts/input on the tactic setup, instructions and of course ideas you might have to get the best out of my strongest players (as listed above).

[LlamaZA]

Generally seems fine, I would look at perhaps using a 4-3-1-2 over the 4-3-3 in order to utilise your attacking playmakers in the AMC role.

Although I would look at using a 3-1-2-3-1 as my 'attacking' formation - since it would be the easiest transition from the 4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1/4-3-3 variants you're considering (it just moves a DC to the missing DM/AMC spot).

[Jack Taylor]

Interesting thread. As it would be desirable to hear opinion on the scheme 4-3-3 about roles and instructions. How to bridge the gap between defense and midfield? Actual question for me

[DaLima9]

The summer holiday is about to end on my save and some transfers have been made. Some underperforming/wage heavy/new challenge wanting stars have left the team, and I've secured a couple of well developed regens (19-22 age range), including another beast defender and a mexican striker whose a clinical finisher while still having loads of pace, strength and size. Sadly I had to let Rooney leave, the only way he'd agree to a now contract was if he could eat 1/8th of my wage budget, and at 32 he ain't worth it.

Currently my only weak areas (3 stars) seem to be my LB/LWB and my AMR, and I could use an extra man as MC. I got great "pure strikers" but miss a Neymar'ish type for the AMR position - one who is a great finisher but can also fill the role of winger/terequista.

Sticking with philosophies from the forum, I've decided to build the primary tactic (4-3-3) first, and from there mold the other two two tactics from the roles given. I've focussed on bringing my star players into the starting 11 also. I will start building the tactics and test them out this evening and will update from there.

[DaLima9]

Things are looking proising for my 4-3-3 so far. After 3 friendlies, admitted against weaker oppositions, I've notched a 4-0, 5-0 and 8-0 win. Things are looking good, considoring familiarity is only at approx 75%.

The setup:

GK: GK, defend

DR+DL: FB, attack

DCL: CD, stopper

DCR: CD, cover

MCR: CM, defend

MC: AP, attack

MCL: BWM, support

STRC: TM, support

STC: P, attack

STLC: Ter, attack

Fluid, attacking, direct, press more, zonal, drill crosses, more roaming.

No playmaker or targeman selected.

In general my philosophy is to have the teams flanks setup to support eachother.

- With my MCR dropping back, I want my STRC to drop deeper, with my DR providing offensive assist. With my defensivly minded MCR I can allow my DCR more freedom. I decided to be a little cautions tho, and made him a covering CD rather than a ball playing one.

- With my STLC purely focussing on attack, I have him "carried" by my MCL who chases opponents on the ball, fighting for posession, who again is supported by an attacking DL. Having the MCR chase the ball more I decided to secure the back with a stopping DC who knows how to position himself.

- My MC and my SC are there for scoring or creating goals, so the MC moves forward alot, spraying deadly passes around and getting himself involved in the attack, and the SC helps making room for him as he is a poacher that rides the shoulder of the last defender and roams around.

Things really fired off in the 8-0 win, but I was surprised that my midfield scored 6 of the goals.

- My BWM (Phil Jones) was everywhere, finding many holes between Özil (AP) and Neymar (Tereq) - scoring 4 goals.

- I subbed in Gylfi Sigurosson (sp) in after 60 minutes. He fired home two 30yarders. Özil on the other hand had 4 assists.

- My Poacher stayed central most of the time, got one clear run at goal and the 2nd he score from the edge of the area.

We had 22 shots, 15 of which were on goal - the opposition (Ipswich) had 1 shot - they had home field...

I will update more as I get further in.

[LlamaZA]

Have you considered using your DR/L as Wingbacks instead - this will give them the freedom to run with the ball. Perhaps even set them to 'Hug Touchline' to give you width.

Not sure who your Target Man is, but if he can head I'd switch Drill Crosses to Mixed.

In terms of your tactical set - this easily transitions into a 442 diamond with a Target Man and Poacher up top ahead of a Trequartista. Midfield would be BWM(s), Advanced Playmaker(a) and Defensive Mid (d) - this would be your defensive strategy. Could be a bit more Rigid or Balanced (since the inclusion of players in the DM and AM slots gives natural transitions), and possibly work better with short passing on control.

One final thing, and I'm sure you're aware of this, friendly performance does not necessarily convert into league performance. I'd be much more concerned about the zones the players are covering (check the analysis tab) and the type of goals being scored (I'd discount all set pieces), in fact I'd rather check the number of Clear Cut Chances I'm creating and whether they're the type I envisaged my tactic creating (i.e. if with direct passing my team scored a beautiful 50 pass goal I would suggest that would be in spite of and not because of my tactics).

[DaLima9]

Thanks for the feedback LlamaZA.

I have indeed considored using the FBs as WBs. One of the reasons I am not is because I fear I might be going too offensive, and my DL/DR players fit FB roles better, as their crossing and dribbling leave something to be desired.

My most physically dominant TM is Lacina Taore, but he is equally good with the ball at his feet as in the air. In general I feel more comfortable not using high crosses, as I feel most defences are solid in the arial game, but can lack in the athletical/technical, making drilled crosses the better option. I just can't get the arial game going as anything other than build-up.

I was debating going with a 4-1-3-2, 4-3-1-2, 4-4-2 diamond setup for a while, and that might be my next project. In my experience thought, against thought opposition, good wing play can help retain posession and lead to more wins, which is why I went with 4-1-2-2-1 and 4-2-3-1 variants. I am also looking forward to seeing if I can mold player to fit STRC/AML roles.

I am however blessed with a pacey attack, so a more centred, direct tactic will be considored depending on how I do with the current setup.

Lastly I know friendlies aren't much to go by, but the can give you a general idea wether your setu will work or not with the given roles (ie if players clutter up - the avg. positions you refer to).

I am though the friendlies now, and made a few adjustments. My MCL is now BWM, defensive, as I found him getting forward too much, taking up space Neymar should be in, and wasting chances I know Neymar would do better with.

My STRC I swap between a TM, support and an AF, attack to see the synergy. The AF does leave a gap between midfield and attack, but offers more options on the wide, right flank.

Another update will follow once into the season.

[Jack Taylor]

No playmaker or targeman selected.

Why not to appoint targetmeny STRC? That he would win balls as Drogba or Lukaku.

I tried to use your philosophy and West Bromvich 2-0 lost directing Chelsea

[Jack Taylor]

I played pair of matches this tactics.

Sunderland 4-4 Chelsea (home)

Arsenal of 0-2 Chelsea (home)

Inter of 1-4 Chelsea (away)

Tactics works normally but is over what to think.

For example in each game my AP received an assessment 6.0

. I tried different players on this position (Lampard, Hazard)

---Mata(Trequartista)---Torres----Lukaku (Target Man-support)

----Ramires(BWM-support)---Hazard(Ap-attack)---Mikel(CM-Defend)

----Cole(LB-support) ---Terry(CD-defend)---Cahil(CD-defend)---Luiz(RB-support)

[Squadinho]

Hi guys

I've just started a new save with Chelsea going along the lines of having a tactical set, my 433 is near identical to yours, but I'd like to share my 4231:

GK: Goalkeeper (DEFEND)

DR/DL: Fullback (SUPPORT)

CD: Central Defender (DEFEND)

MCR: Ball Winning Midfield (DEFEND)

MCL: Central Defender (DEFEND)

AMR/AML: Winger (ATTACK)

AMC: Advanced Playmaker (SUPPORT)

ST: Advanced Forward (ATTACK)

Through pre-season I tested the 433 against pretty poor opposition in 3 games, scoring 9 and conceding 0.

First game of the league season saw me play Man Utd, with me at home. Opted for the 4231 and ended up winning 2-1 with a brace from Drogba.

(Click for bigger).

We were pretty comfortable throughout, but their best chances came on the counter (goal they scored was also on the counter).

I play with a Fluid philosophy and control strategy with everything on default except for passing, which is set to shorter. No playmaker or target man. I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of others.

[Jack Taylor]

The new season began and I decided to create new tactics for the new players what to use them better.

I was very surprised with results as didn't expect. I first of all wanted to reproduce real game of Chelsea.

And so, the scheme 4-2-3-1 (it is deep!) Important what your two delayed pleymeyker were deeply. They create additional density in defense (thanks for Robbie Di Matteo's this idea). Before I played from two CM's and had no positive results.

Instructions:

Balanced

Standart or Attacking (Depending on the situation).

More direct pass

Creative freedom - default (but you are obliged to give the creative player more freedom. It concerns the AMC and one of a deep pleymeyker).

Press more

Crossing - default

Roaming - default

My best squad + roles of players.

___________________________________F.Torres____________________

Neymar (IF-attack)___Eden Hazard or J.Mata (Att.Mid-attack)___D.Sturridge or Muniain (Winger-support)

________________________________________________________________________________________

__________________Lampard or Ramires (DLP-support)________Mikel (Anchor)

A.Cole (LB-support)__________J.Terry(CD)____David Luiz(СD)_____________Chalobah (RB-support)

This tactics doesn't mean 80 % of possession of a ball as Barcelona. But if you have players with good attribute a pass and cross-country that of 55-60 % for you is provided. I don't love are short a pass as it is boring and it is not beautiful.

I received such results:

(click)

[DaLima9]

I must regretably admit, that I have failed to get the 4-3-3 to work with my team. My main issues are:

- my MCR and MCL do not track out wide enough, neither do the STRC or STLC, despire playing a wide setup this forces alot of play up the centre, not dragging opponents wide enough, leaving little place for forward runs, and space to either work the magic or get a CCC.

I also have trouble with my 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-2-2-1 where my strikers fail to perform. Either because they are marked out, or have bad synergy with my wingers.

I have ALOT of pace on my team, so I am going to switch strategy to a more patien outlet with deeper lying strikers involving the wi gers and getting to crosses from deep run, while also focussing on retaining posession and get play lethal through balls to a cutting winger or a striker running from deep.

My starting point is a 4-4-2 with the Ml and Mr pushed up to AML and AMR, playing slightly wide but with short passing, and having one mc and one striker supportive/defensive minded with the last striker preying on deep runs and crosses from offensive wingers.

I may eventually turn it back into a 4-2-3-1, but I love having two up front, and I have way too many good forwards :-)

[geekydave]

Actually I find that 433 rigid/control is one of the best tactics using creator in game. I play 433 with a DM all mids on BWM and I mix the strikers but normally have a poacher, DLF or Treq and an AF or TM in the middle. I do mix it depending on players but I've had best defense in league for 3 seasons since I got promoted as Birmingham. Goals are a struggle but I average about 1.4 per game. I only concede .6 per game tho

[geekydave]

Feel I should explain more. My tactic is a tactic creator tactic

Full backs are on support(normally-I do change it for certain matches but never b4 kick off)

DC are both just DC on defence

3 mids. All on BWM. You can mess with this as suits your team. Either a flat 3 or 1 defensive. I always put all on suport tho. They defend admirable either way if u using players that can play there

Attackers. This is kinda where the "rigid" lets it down maybe. I've messed around with lots and lots of parameters. But I do think put them all on attack yeilds best results and try to pick by talent. eg... I play a P,TM/AM/CM,DLF,T,DLF

Normally my best striker would be on the right as creative guy.

I know I write bad but hopefully that makes sense