Show me some 4-4-2 love!

[crouchaldinho]

Reloading must help too, Heathxxx?

Of course I jest! I know you're definitely not a cheater and that it's completely legit.

What's your goals per game ratio? Looks amazing!

FA Cup 4th round! Very nice run! Must have been a bit gutted with the draw in the 3rd and 4th round though? A Premier League team away from home would have been the business!

Let us know how you do against Wolves please.

[heathxxx]

Reloading must help too, Heathxxx?

Of course I jest! I know you're definitely not a cheater and that it's completely legit.

What's your goals per game ratio? Looks amazing!

FA Cup 4th round! Very nice run! Must have been a bit gutted with the draw in the 3rd and 4th round though? A Premier League team away from home would have been the business!

Let us know how you do against Wolves please.

"Legit" depends upon one's perspective... as you already know and will have noticed no doubt, I'm accompanied at Altrincham by some of my good friends from Reunion, plus some Uruguayan exiles.

I don't reload though... but it takes me a long time to play my saves. Attention to detail.

To be fair with the cup run, up until Wolves in the 4th round, I've not exactly faced stiff opposition. The non-league opponents were a breeze, whilst the league clubs were all in bad form and low morale. I was hoping for one of the "big" clubs in the 3rd & 4th rounds, but the away match at Wolves netted the club about 500k, plus the bonus of a home replay. I'd actually rather have got someone like Man Utd or Arsenal away in the 3rd round, made a stack of cash, but taken an inevitable thrashing.

Aside from Wolves, my toughest opponents this season have been the mighty Colwyn Bay, who played a 5-3-2 formation. Was 2-0 down, getting no joy in the middle through three midfielders and three central defenders. Focused passing down the flanks with shouts in the second half and turned the game around.

[heathxxx]

Here's the season stats page, so far, crouchaldinho...

I'm saving the Wolves replay for tomorrow's FM session though

[Suzie MUFC]

I love 4-4-2. I try playing other formations, but always end up going back to 4-4-2. It's simple and very pretty to watch. I love seeing wingers streaking down the flanks and pinging in a sweet cross which connects with one of the strikers and ricochets into the back of the net.

I've found, though, it can be problematic because the defensive MC never wants to plug the DM position "hole", so I end up getting a lot of opposition AMs & through balls tearing my defence apart. This tempts me to change formation to one with a DM, and then I end up in a confused mess. :\

[Fabio MVP]

I never used any other formation than 4-4-2 with AMR and AML. Enough said!

[PPPPPPPPPPPP10]

I love 4-4-2. I try playing other formations, but always end up going back to 4-4-2. It's simple and very pretty to watch. I love seeing wingers streaking down the flanks and pinging in a sweet cross which connects with one of the strikers and ricochets into the back of the net.

I've found, though, it can be problematic because the defensive MC never wants to plug the DM position "hole", so I end up getting a lot of opposition AMs & through balls tearing my defence apart. This tempts me to change formation to one with a DM, and then I end up in a confused mess. :\

Play your defensive MC with a roaming duty Suzie this way he'll be more likely to want to go back and get the opposition AM (until one of your CD pick him up), the through ball thing though is a toughie, the only thing I can do is to use my best CD-C (high ant/acc) when I'm faced against a good Striker/AM combo

[scott MUFC]

the 4-2-2-2 version of 4-4-2 is very quick and easy, requires very little creation to work, and you get some immence results.

[heathxxx]

I love 4-4-2. I try playing other formations, but always end up going back to 4-4-2. It's simple and very pretty to watch. I love seeing wingers streaking down the flanks and pinging in a sweet cross which connects with one of the strikers and ricochets into the back of the net.

I've found, though, it can be problematic because the defensive MC never wants to plug the DM position "hole", so I end up getting a lot of opposition AMs & through balls tearing my defence apart. This tempts me to change formation to one with a DM, and then I end up in a confused mess. :\

Do you use stopper/cover central defenders though, as I find that often helps plug the "hole". If the defensive midfielder isn't tracking the movement of an AMC, the "stopper" DC usually steps forward to make challenges.

Of course if you want to man mark an AMC, then obviously there's perhaps no substitute for plopping a DMC on them, but that's changing the shape of your system. Every formation and system has strong and weak points, so I guess it's a case of working with them.

[scott MUFC]

I have one of my midfielders set to defencive, the other to attack, helps to link up the play

[heathxxx]

Let us know how you do against Wolves please.

You'll like this... I know I did!

Picture the scene: Compact non-league ground, not the best of pitches and snow...

Very much a game of two halves.

First-half was a backs to the wall job. Wolves were clearly on top and my Alty side barely had a sniff at goal. Fortunately though, a combination of resolute defending and Wolves having their only effort on target blocked, with a goal line clearance, we held out. They had lot's of shots, just not on target and many from range.

Zubar was sent off for a second booking very early in the second-half, they changed to three central defenders and a 3-4-2 shape. Thanks Mr. Zubar, you've just handed me what I want.

Target man Chuchla comes on comes on for the jaded deep-lying forward Couñago and time for some suitable shouts...

· Get the ball forward

· Pass into space

· Exploit the flanks

· Pump the ball into the box

· Hit early crosses

· Get stuck in

Extra man and space to play with, Wolves rattled, we began to take control of the game.

The rest, as they say, is history...

[video=youtube;XlijDiEtnao]

If you want the full match or highlights, here's a PKM to download and view in FM - http://www.gamefront.com/files/21623431/Altrincham+v+Wolves+FA+Cup.pkm

[Things Could Get Messi]

I like using 4-4-2 in the lower leagues. Gives a good balance between defence and attack and if you get the rest of the tactics right then you will get good results over the long run.

However in a top division I have to throw it out of the window. Quite simply, nearly all the best wide midfielders are classed and better in the AM roles. Move them back and the number of assists and goals they get will drop by quite a distance. I'm not going to put the brakes on my wide players by playing them further back so I use a 4-2-3-1

[THOG]

Move them back and the number of assists and goals they get will drop by quite a distance.

Trust me, they won't. Positional familiarity doesn't have a very noticeable effect and ML/R on attack duty are hardly restrained on the attack. I won the Champion's League in the second season with a largely unaltered Liverpool squad using a 4-2-2-1-1 with ML/R on attack duty. I had Maxi Rodriguez playing as ML, his positional familiarity was only "Competent" and he led the Premier League in assists at the end of season despite suffering a 3-month injury in November. I played Kuyt at MR and he scored quite a few goals.

If anything, the fact that ML/R actually move around in defense often means they are better positioned to move into gaps in the opposition formation on the counter rather than just holding hands with the fullback. That is especially vital if you're playing a possession game as the AML/R will often mean your defensive midfielders have less decent passing options after winning the ball back. Even if you play direct, the better positioning means they'll be more likely to have a moment or two to do something with the ball before being closed down.

Try playing a 4231 against a flat 451 and, even against crap teams, you will often get destroyed in terms of possession because your AML/R will give the opposition a 2-man advantage in midfield while your wingers will rarely be making genuinely intelligent movements off the ball (dropping back for passes when the counter breaks down, drawing fullbacks out of position, etc.).

AML/R weren't that bad before 12.1 because they're basically just strikers and, when you could consistently maintain very high morale, you had a better chance of converting poor chances that result from just packing the penalty box with attackers. Now, they are very poor at the top level and disastrous at lower levels. There's a reason United is such a force in this version while Arsenal and Chelsea are terrible until Wenger/AVB are replaced.

[heathxxx]

Grrrr...

After knocking Wolves out of the 4th round of the cup, got Coventry away in the 5th round. Very even game, but my Altrincham side had two perfectly good, onside goals, disallowed for offside.

End result was 0-0, so have it all to do again, plus the extra income, so can't really grumble.

[heathxxx]

...but the urge to win that replay just got bigger!

Draw for the quarter final... Man Utd v Altrincham/Coventry.

[crouchaldinho]

Good luck Heathxxx! Go for it!

[kingjericho]

Do you notice big improvements by using AMR/Ls instead of MR/Ls? I prefer the flat 4-4-2 but I never had more than moderate success with it...

[heathxxx]

Just a personal preference for me, using AMR/L's instead of MR/L's.

I've always been one for more attacking oriented play. Risk vs. reward really. I know where the weak points are in such an approach, but am prepared to risk them for the potential rewards of stronger attacking play.

That and there's far more options for players who are "natural" AMR/L's, than there are for the MR/L positions.

[BiggusD]

I usually play a 4-2-2-2 (two DMC's and two AM R&L), but with some minor adjustments a flat 442 version works just fine. I started a game with Germany's worst team, Darmstadt, and currently in January with no signings I am fighting for promotion.

[Guest]

Ever since I started to really dominate teams, I've been playing 442. I don't change anything if playing home or away, against a big team or small.

I use defensive wingers because they don't hug the touchline and will get more involved and they press like crazy when the opposition has the ball. The advanced forward/deep lying forward combo seems to work pretty well, even with the deep lying forward on attack duty.

The only thing I changed from the tactics creator was to tick counter-attack.

[heathxxx]

Good luck Heathxxx! Go for it!

Very similar game to the replay with Wolves in the previous round. Instead of snow, this time we had a downpour of rain.

Coventry very much on top in the first-half. Thanks to a string of fine saves from my keeper and Coventry hitting the woodwork three times, we held out. As soon as we scored in the second-half, it completely tipped the balance of the game. Coventry started to throw everything forward, left themselves open at the back and we hit them for two more goals on the counter.

Now for a highly unlikely but short trip, along the A56, then past Macari's chippy, to Old Trafford for the Quarter Final.

Expecting to get slaughtered, but the club will make a shed load of money in the process.

[crouchaldinho]

Nice.

Wonder if Roy Hodgson will bring back 4-4-2 with England?

[heathxxx]

I'll be happy to be his assistant if he needs any pointers

[marty78]

Nice.

Wonder if Roy Hodgson will bring back 4-4-2 with England?

Just seen the news. I'm very surprised they overlooked 'Arry as he seemed to be the fans choice. Oh well good luck Roy.

[crouchaldinho]

I'm backing Roy, for sure. I hope he is a great success. Fully behind his appointment if it goes ahead.

[heathxxx]

I actually think Roy should have had the job a long time ago. Amongst those tipped for the job, he's perhaps my first choice.

[Karnage94]

Roy will bring a calm head and a lot of organisation. He's done well for himself in testing circumstances minus the Liverpool expedition, his time at Inter I think it was when the club was in a horrible state and he managed to steady things up and got some good results. And he is perfectly suited to modern international football with his defensive playing style. As long as Redknapp doesn't get it, England can at least hope during the group stages

[crouchaldinho]

Roy will bring a calm head and a lot of organisation. He's done well for himself in testing circumstances minus the Liverpool expedition, his time at Inter I think it was when the club was in a horrible state and he managed to steady things up and got some good results. And he is perfectly suited to modern international football with his defensive playing style. As long as Redknapp doesn't get it, England can at least hope during the group stages

Liverpool was the wrong club for Roy at the wrong time. The media and fans didn't want him because he is a southerner.

In my opinion, Roy is a great choice for England. I really hope that he will be a success as I like him as a manager.

[Karnage94]

Liverpool was the wrong club for Roy at the wrong time. The media and fans didn't want him because he is a southerner.

In my opinion, Roy is a great choice for England. I really hope that he will be a success as I like him as a manager.

As someone who has only ever been in England twice, I haven't quite grasped the whole Northern/Southern thing and why there's such a fuss made over it. But yeah, his record wasn't as bad as what Kenny's is over the same amount of games if I recall correctly (that stat I think is a few weeks old and Liverpool have picked up a few points) but yes Roy was given a horrid time by the media and fans. It wasn't to be for him, but that's football. I'm looking forward to seeing how the Euro's pan out and if he does play the 4-4-2. I think the way Roy works and how Trappatoni works with the ones down south are remarkably similar, and RoI have been defensively superb under him. So on that basis, Woy for England!

[heathxxx]

If it's any consolation, Rayo Vallecano played a 4-4-2 double pivot against a Barcelona 4-3-3 tonight... and lost 7-0

[gmcker]

I use the default 4-4-2 tactic with no tinkering. I have won one Prem and 2 League Cups with it with Forest (plus some mid-table years as well). I just buy players to suit the 4-4-2. I've always used 4-4-2, the only problem being most midfielders seem to be AM/AML/AMLs, or a DM, rather than simple MC/ML/MRs, so it is tricky sometimes to get a player to be a natural flat midfielder. But in those time I do get such a midfielder I do better than when I have to shoehorning an attacking midfielder in.

In other words I've never been one to try and work out formations, and rather just play the best players for the position as I can get and ket the opposition work it out.

[Bruce Drundrige]

This is the first version of FM where I haven't used it as my default tactic on at least one save or team. I use it occasionally to counter specific threats or to close out a game, especially if I think I need to protect my full-backs.

Like someone else said above I tend it use it more in lower leagues and do enjoy the versatility you get within it.

[CWR15]

Absolutely LOVING the 4-4-2 love in team 442!

[heathxxx]

I use the default 4-4-2 tactic with no tinkering. I have won one Prem and 2 League Cups with it with Forest (plus some mid-table years as well). I just buy players to suit the 4-4-2. I've always used 4-4-2, the only problem being most midfielders seem to be AM/AML/AMLs, or a DM, rather than simple MC/ML/MRs, so it is tricky sometimes to get a player to be a natural flat midfielder. But in those time I do get such a midfielder I do better than when I have to shoehorning an attacking midfielder in.

In other words I've never been one to try and work out formations, and rather just play the best players for the position as I can get and ket the opposition work it out.

Sounds like you have a similar approach to me.

Whilst I'm happy using a variety of different formations and tactical approaches, I tend to stick with one system (or set) with any club I manage. I then build my team around that system.

Always feels much easier to take that approach, than constantly tinkering tactically. A decent tactical approach will always work, so long as you have suitable players in each position and role.

When it comes to the 4-4-2 approach though, I always play with AML/R's, simply because it's much easier to find suitable players, because as you say, the options around for ML/R's at all levels of the game, is fairly limited. My personal preference for a winger, is that they have good positional ability and attributes for AML/AMR, plus SC. I often find that having wingers who are also competent (or better) as strikers, helps them weigh in with a good share of goals, as well as assists.

Something I like too, that's worth people looking into, is tall wingers. The amount of goals I see tall wingers score from headed goals, getting on the end of far post crosses, is not to be sniffed at.

[Jolanthustrel]

I often find that having wingers who are also competent (or better) as strikers, helps them weigh in with a good share of goals, as well as assists.

Something I like too, that's worth people looking into, is tall wingers. The amount of goals I see tall wingers score from headed goals, getting on the end of far post crosses, is not to be sniffed at.

This. I also find having wingers that can play as strikers (and vice versa) is a good way of mixing things up and throwing off the oppositions man marking.

[Icy]

Due to the match engine issues with some modern tactics, I'm thinking about setting up a 4-4-2 but then convert it to 4-2-3-1 with player roles.

I highly believe that the 4-2-3-1 is just an extreme case of the old 4-4-2 with one of the two forwards playing way behind the other to exploit the holes between the midfielders and defenders, like an extreme version of the striker/deep laying forward typical partnership. So in resume, i don't think the 4-2-3-1 in real life is way different than the 4-4-2, for example look at R.Madrid, that despite being set as a 4-2-3-1, plays more like a 4-2-4 in real life.

[Nobby_McDonald]

I always play "four four ****ing two" and usually as bad as Mike Bassett's teams.

[jimmyt86]

4-4-2 got my promoted with Sheff Weds 1st season am bottom of the top half come Jan of 2nd season, 1st season in Championship

[Bruce Drundrige]

This. I also find having wingers that can play as strikers (and vice versa) is a good way of mixing things up and throwing off the oppositions man marking.

Something I'd like to be able to do in my 4-2-3-1 is have more swapping options. So I usually swap AML & AMR around, but would like one of them to also be able to swap with SC...similar to the Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney rotation of 08/09 etc

[phidelta42]

Roy will bring a calm head and a lot of organisation. He's done well for himself in testing circumstances minus the Liverpool expedition, his time at Inter I think it was when the club was in a horrible state and he managed to steady things up and got some good results. And he is perfectly suited to modern international football with his defensive playing style. As long as Redknapp doesn't get it, England can at least hope during the group stages

Agree on this, he does well with poor teams so he should be suited to managing England.

[Fabio MVP]

heathxxx how did you do against Manchester United?

[r0x0r]

In my main game, I'm successfully playing a 4-4-2/4-2-4 at Arsenal. I play my wingers as AML/R rather than ML/R, but I still think it qualifies as a 4-4-2.

I've had it both playing pretty football and effective direct football too. It's a versatile formation that lets my skillful Trequiesta / Fast poacher combinations dominate.

[Celtic_1967]

I'm a strictly 4-4-2 man. Having some decent success in Italy with Genoa at the moment.

[BiggusD]

Would it be possible to write your thoughts of how to beat the 4-2-3-1Denmark with a 4-4-2? thanks for your help

Make sure your wingers are very attacking (in a flat 442) and that you counter-attack quickly. The 4231 Denmark tactic is an extremely attacking tactic which often ends up as a 2-0-8 tactic, so if you have three or four players in the AM-F strata at the right moment you will attack four vs two and destroy them.

[Motherlover]

Judging from the way the OP has addressed the title thread to his wife/girlfriend/partner, I'm guessing that '4-4-2' can only be some kind of kinky sex move.

Pictures or gtfo.

[Swiifteh]

It depends on the players really. If I have 3 beastly strikers it has to be 4.3.3 or 3.4.3. Same with midfielder and defenders! But if the team is average I always use 4.4.2.

[ringwoodrob]

:)Just finished my 3rd season on 2012 playing 4-4-2 with all-out attacking wingers,playing as AFC Bournemouth,1st season-JPT Winners-Lge1 Champions,amazing FA Cup Winners(no players over 125PA but high on determination)

2nd Season-League Cup Winners-Championship Champions-Eufa Cup Winners(only 4/5 players over 124PA)an amazing game at Napoli which ended 4-4 got me to the final!

3rd Season,Uefa Supercup Winners,League cup winners,Uefa Cup winners(2nd time),FA Cup Winners,Premier Lge Winners,beat Maniur 4-2 at home(Rooney sent off) with 3 games left to win it,amazing 3-3 draw at Man City,managed by Jose,he does not like me,they finish 3rd,Fergy retires at the end of season!,,a 4-4-2 with wingers does work!

[Romanista.]

from experience, playing a 4-4-2 in FM makes you very vulnerable to through balls as the defenders dont know to defend against them. thus when i decide on playing 4-4-2, I always play one of the central midfielders in the DM position. has anyone tried playing with two DMs and LM/RM?

[scott MUFC]

my 4-4-2.

[heathxxx]

FA Cup QF

FA Cup QF - Replay

[heathxxx]

FA Cup SF