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Barkermush

Why does the user always have to pay higher wages, than the AI?

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This is one thing that's bugged me with FM12.

I have lots of examples, from my own players.. to trying to buy players.. or bringing in free agents. Where I, the user, seem to have to pay higher wages, than what AI clubs end up paying the same players.

The player will demand X amount wages, I'll try and bring it down.. but it's still too high for what I want to pay, and they reject. Then not so long after, they will join a team for a significantly lower offer, than the highest offer I was prepared to offer them. I've seen them join teams from the League below aswell, on a much lower wage.

I had to sell my 35 goals in one season striker, because I noticed in March he was going into the last season of his contract the following season.

I tried offering him a new deal, and he was demanding £3.2k aweek.. which I got down to £2.2k a week, 120 goal and appearence fee.. plus a £40k agent fee and £10k loyalty bonus.

Just the £50k in agent/loyality fees, would have been half of my current overall bank balance at the time (100k in the bank with Woking)

So there was no way I could give him that, I'm not risking the future of the club. So I sell him before he can walk away on a free, I get £250k for him.

Guess what his wage is at his new club is? £120 p/w with £35 appearence fee.

(He was a regen who came up through my youth team, and he was born in Woking aswell) So needless to say the fans were furious. But I won't jeopardize the future of the club for anyone. If I'd have given him a new deal with what he was demanding, we would have fallen into the red.

If I did not try and sell him then either, we would have gotten less, or he would have walked away on a free. (If I kept in for the last year, no doubt his wage demands would have raised too.. if he scored more goals/ his ca/pa or reputation increased or if we won promotion.. which we did.)

I've also had to let other key players go at the end of their deals in the past, because they requesting significantly higher wages.

One example, a player was on £325 a week near the end of his current deal, I try to offer him a new deal. He wanted £800 plus a £280 appearence fee, which I finally get down to £575 a week, plus a £160 appearence fee. (which was just too much)

He left, and a few weeks later he joined a Blue Sqaure South team (we were in the Bet Premier) his wage.. £180 a week with a £45 appearence fee?

I don't get, I loved this guy (he was my right winger, got loads of assists and chipped in with some goals) played him in every game.. praised him to high even.. he had me on his favoured perssonnel list. But rejected 3 new contracts, because the offer wasn't enough and left on a free transfer.. Only to join a lower league side, for a much lower wage.

Something makes me think it's to do with my overall wage budget. I don't like offering out big wages (because for a club like us, we can't afford it) so I am well under my wage budget.

So I get the impression, that the game calculates that I have a bigger wage budget available, so the players will demand more?

Or am I just really unlucky with the wage demands?

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I get this all the time and it is really annoying. I always have to pay a lot more than the AI will pay a player no matter what, extremely annoying.

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I do think there is a problem with wages paid by the AI to both playing & non-playing staff, I've seen first team players in the Championship on less than £250pw & quite a few top division players on less than a £1000pw.

For me the problem is the tight financial control system that FM puts in place conflicting with an AI manager's inability to negotiate deals down for their key players which results in some startlingly wide wage differentials at some clubs.

As for the specific problem you're encountering it is annoying & in most cases indefensible, having a current player ask for £3kpw when our highest paid player is on £500pw is bad enough but to then see him agree terms of £450pw with another club results in damaged property.

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What's your relationship with their agent? I've noticed this can have a dramatic effect on the wage they'll ask for/accept, and the AI managers in at least my current save have been awfully good about getting buddy-buddy with them. I used to drive a hard bargain, frequently walking away or making non-negotiable offers, but this just seems to get you on their bad side and hurt all future negotiations with all their clients.

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Regarding your winger, I believe players ask for lower wages when they're without a club. But yes, generally I agree that we have to pay higher than the AI and it's pretty stupid.

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It can get a lot worse when you have a tiny budget in the top divisions.

It's pretty hard to replace a 35 goal striker then.

But I agree with you that the AI seems to get players for far less wages and transfer fees.

I just tell to myself that they paid off the agent the difference, that way I can cope with it.

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What's your relationship with their agent? I've noticed this can have a dramatic effect on the wage they'll ask for/accept, and the AI managers in at least my current save have been awfully good about getting buddy-buddy with them. I used to drive a hard bargain, frequently walking away or making non-negotiable offers, but this just seems to get you on their bad side and hurt all future negotiations with all their clients.

Hmm I wasn't sure tbh, but I just checked and his agent does have me on his disliked list.. (don't know why? just because I wouldn't give into the high demands?)

But it's not just my players, it's happened many of times, with various players. Right now, I have been trying to sign a free agent, who wanted £1.9k aweek.

After lots of dealing, the lowest he would go to was £1.3k with a £90 appearence fee. The most I wanted to pay him was around 900-975 with bonuses etc. But he would not go any lower than £1.3k a week, I tried 3 times before he would no longer talk with me.

Then not long after, he joined another team (also in League 2) and he accepted a contract offer offer of £775 with a £300 appearence fee.

It's not overly lower (in the past I've seen it much lower for the AI than what it was for me) but it's still lower for the AI, than what he wanted from me. (He's also listed as a 'backup player' for the AI team. I offered him 'first team player')

I checked his agent, and this agent doesn't have me on his disliked list.

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it goes to extremes, on my blackpool save i tried to get tevez on a feww after he left his club, he wanted 100k... a week later he is off to santos playing for 10k

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I fully agree with the OP, but I'm not sure I want SI to fix it - at least not for the moment.

Right now, I find it very easy to outperform all of the AI managers dramatically in the transfer market. Any moves that made it easier really wouldn't improve the game. Ideally this would be combined with improved AI, so it would be a more level playing field for salaries, and equally it would be more competitive to sign good players.

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I tried to sign Adler on a free for Rangers. He wanted 60,000 a week with massive loyalty bonus, apps and clean sheets. He then went to Bayern Munich as a backup goalie for 18,000pw.

I feel in that case it was the computers way of saying "I really don't want to play in Scotland...it's cold as buggery, but if you pay me loads I may consider".

I think you need to look at the player in question.

Does he want to go to your club?

Does he want to go to your league?

Has he got favoured personnel at the other club?

He may dislike your club, manager, players at your club?

His reputation may be too high for your league/club so therefore feels he's better than you.

Having said all this, there are numerous instances where the AI just get away with it regardless. Maybe they pay huge agent fees, really the only finance in the contract we can't see.

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never had this problem. you just have to find the right players. some players demand higher wages than others, especially if they have an existing contract that's pretty high (former EPL players, former RM players, etc)

i won the league 3x in a row while paying my players mid-table salaries

SerieATIMStats_TeamStats.png

so the trick is to buy low-salary players from low-salary clubs. i end up buying most of my players from Germany and Holland. sometimes if pays off to pay a higher transfer fee for a low salary player (Kagawa, Gotze, etc) vs paying a low transfer fee for a high salary player (Tevez, Balotelli, etc)

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that usually happens to me if the player in question is going to a team with lower reputation

but when it's a team with the same reputation it's the opposite,while i usually try to negotiate down the offers while the AI doesnt (or so it seems) and in the end we(me and the AI) end up with similar players but the Ai's are overpayed in comparison to mine

ex: playing as benfica after 3 season or so my av salary is around 90 k while porto's around 150k+

and you're right the wage budget does affect the wage demands,the bigger the budget the bigger the demands,the best way is to have the budget all the way to transfers and then adjust it if it it isnt enough to satisfy the minimum demands of a players

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it goes to extremes, on my blackpool save i tried to get tevez on a feww after he left his club, he wanted 100k... a week later he is off to santos playing for 10k

Actually this one might really happen.

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I think (don't know for sure) that players will sign with AI teams and the wages is judged by previous wages, reputation, CA etc etc. But a different caluculation is used for humans.

I have noticed that when I am in lower leagues, I am able to get players a lot cheaper than the AI, but when I reach the top leagues it has flipped the other way. In non-league it is easy to get great starting players for £50 a week, they wouldn't sign with the AI teams for less than £200.

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I tried to sign Adler on a free for Rangers. He wanted 60,000 a week with massive loyalty bonus, apps and clean sheets. He then went to Bayern Munich as a backup goalie for 18,000pw.
it goes to extremes, on my blackpool save i tried to get tevez on a feww after he left his club, he wanted 100k... a week later he is off to santos playing for 10k

I think these two examples slightly show what it might just be...reputation/prefered club.

Mr Adler would prefer to play in germany so is willing to take a lower wage.

Mr Tevez looks at his two offered, blackpool and Santos, and quite rightly he chooses Santos as it is a club more of his standards according to rep.

It isnt completely right because Tevez would go for the money so would chose Blackpool, but I do think Adler being a German player is more likely to stay loyal to his country and go to Munchen.

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I quite often have players on my team when the AI has similar players in wage and ability, but is paying them more money. You just have to find value players where it's a win all round - for your team, for the player, and for your finances :)

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This is so annoying. I was playing as Arsenal and David Silva fell out with City so was transfer listed by request. I had an offer accepted but he wouldn't take anything less than a large pay rise, despite him wanting to leave. Just a week later he signed for Fiorentina on a 50% wage cut. Unbelievable.

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Could be the relationship between manager and player reputation. If you have a low reputation a player may demand higher wages than from an AI manager with a higher reputation.

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Could be the relationship between manager and player reputation. If you have a low reputation a player may demand higher wages than from an AI manager with a higher reputation.
This might actually be it. I know that despite having brought Tenerife to title contenders from the third tier in 5 seasons, my reputation still isn't that high. I can get young regens on low wages but some of the bigger names expect an awful lot. On the Tevez issue, I tried to cheekily grab him at the end of his contract (knowing that he wouldn't come but just had a look) and he wanted 180k per week, I could only get that down by 10k. Literally 3 days later whilst still at the City, he had agreed a 61k a week deal with Liverpool, so maybe it has something to do with the manager reputation. I'm getting job offers for teams that are set for relegation rather than the likes of Barca or Real Madrid, so maybe it is the manager rep

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Barkermush: Do you remember this thread? http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/291349-How-is-wage-demand-calculated

It might not necessarily be the user that's involved (i.e. the AI treats the user and other AI managers differently), just that players have severe ego issues and demand too much to begin with and/or players demand amount X for one team and end up signing for amount Y at another team that is much, much lower than X (possibly related of course).

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You do have to counter this with the fact that the AI is also completely useless at keeping it's wage budget under control. You can join a club and find three or more players on Match Highest Earner one of which is bound to have a big Yearly Wage Rise in their contract as well, then the rest of the team will have Yearly Wage Rises in their contracts as well. As a player you can easily come in and cut the wage budget by 30%-40%, the only wage rises I ever accept on a contract are Promotion or Top Division Promotion rises. Match Highest Earner is the worst clause you can hand out in a contract but the AI is perfectly happy handing them out to anyone that wants them.

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In any case, this turning down your club to sign for another at sometimes 90% less salary is plain silly, regardless of "reputation" etc. It shouldn't be hapening to that exagerated extent.

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Player wage demands are also dependent on how much money you have. The more you have the more the players want.

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Player wage demands are also dependent on how much money you have. The more you have the more the players want.
How would they know though?

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This is so annoying. I was playing as Arsenal and David Silva fell out with City so was transfer listed by request. I had an offer accepted but he wouldn't take anything less than a large pay rise, despite him wanting to leave. Just a week later he signed for Fiorentina on a 50% wage cut. Unbelievable.

Florence is the greatest city in the world though, I'd take a 50% wage cut if I could live there...

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How would they know though?

That's my feeling too- I've experienced the phenomenon where the wage budget goes up and players are asking for a lot more all of a sudden. They shouldn't know.

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How would they know though?

The only way they would know is if a club got a sugar daddy (realistically it would be in the news if a club suddenly got a sugar daddy, so players and agents would know), otherwise I agree the players shouldn't know.

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I don't see the problem with players knowing. They practically live in the club, they walk the hallways, they speak to the other employees. I wouldn't be surprised if they knew quite a bit about the financial structure of the club. Nothing specific of course, but if there is a huge wage budget yet to be spent chances are someone would let a hint or two slip.

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When I 1st won the Premier League I at Aston Villa I only had the 8th highest wage costs in the league. Even after another 3 consecutive titles I am in 7th on the list just ahead of Sunderland and just over half the ammount that Man City pay. I scout loads of players but if they are going to ask for too much then I'm not going to even bid. Top earner is on 72k a week with all my rotation players on nothing more than 45k a week.

If you look hard enough then you will find players who are good enough who you can sign within your means. It is just important to look at as many players as you can and sticking to your guns.

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Florence is the greatest city in the world though, I'd take a 50% wage cut if I could live there...

I could understand that, but Silva left sunny Spain to go to cloudy Manchester.

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When I 1st won the Premier League I at Aston Villa I only had the 8th highest wage costs in the league. Even after another 3 consecutive titles I am in 7th on the list just ahead of Sunderland and just over half the ammount that Man City pay. I scout loads of players but if they are going to ask for too much then I'm not going to even bid. Top earner is on 72k a week with all my rotation players on nothing more than 45k a week.

If you look hard enough then you will find players who are good enough who you can sign within your means. It is just important to look at as many players as you can and sticking to your guns.

I think this ties back to players magically knowing your budget. Aston Villa doesn't have the biggest budget. If you were to edit Villa's budget to increase by two-folds, without increasing reputation, or having a sugar daddy, players will start demanding more money. This doesn't make sense because there's no way players can know your financial power, yet they adjust accordingly.

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I don't see the problem with players knowing. They practically live in the club, they walk the hallways, they speak to the other employees. I wouldn't be surprised if they knew quite a bit about the financial structure of the club. Nothing specific of course, but if there is a huge wage budget yet to be spent chances are someone would let a hint or two slip.

Ah, but it's not just for players at your club. It is the same for free transfers. I've experienced this in my current save on a number of occasions after I got a wage budget bump that pretty significant, but had little change in club rep and playing at same level. Players that would have cost me 50 week are demanding 200, and then signing for a comparable club in the league for 50.

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hello peeps, well I am managing Aberdeen just now, tried to sign a free tranfer midfielder, he wanted 2 grand a week, I offered 1.5 & he walked away & accepted a contract from Dundee a division lower for £425 quid a week!

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I have also found the role you give the player matters to. If you list him as a key player he just wants more than if he is a backup regardless of club, it happened in fm 11 when i tried to resign tiago, he wanted 50k as a rotation but i turned him into a first teamer (or key player forgotten) and it jumped straight away to 77k

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If you're a small club, you have to pay high wages to make the player interested in signing.

If you're a big club, you have to pay high wages because the agents know you have the money.

Simples ;)

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The fault is SO obvious and SO ANNOYING, that it completely ruins any enjoyment in being immersed in a good simulation that is meant to carry you into another world of... suspended belief and real relaxation in being shut off from the pressures of your daily life. It beggars belief that this game has been going SO long and this TOTALLY STUPID, obvious, and indefensible fault still hasn't been corrected.

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