dking

Morale

31 posts in this topic

How can a player be over confident and cocky prior to every single game (no matter what team/individual talk I give), yet as soon as the game starts he's playing nervously?

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Probably because the player in question has a bad personality, that situation happens to me a lot on lower leagues.

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[quote name='Barside']All mouth, no trousers.[/QUOTE]Cocky then nervous would make sense here... But [B]overconfident[/B] and cocky, then nervous?

I don't think you can become overconfident to nervous within a single team talk unless the team talk is particularly devastating.

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I think you can, this is an extreme example but I've seen a couple of very confident & self assured people before hand be unable to go through with a parachute jump when push came to shove, fear & the realisation of expectation can instantly turn a person into a nervous wreck.

I would however expect him to become less confident over time but there are instances where some folk are just too dumb to accept their own limitations & will always have an unjustified sense of themselves despite constant failure.

As always it's worth a post in the bugs forum though.

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[quote name='Barside']I think you can, this is an extreme example but I've seen a couple of very confident & self assured people before hand be unable to go through with a parachute jump when push came to shove, fear & the realisation of expectation can instantly turn a person into a nervous wreck.

I would however expect him to become less confident over time but there are instances where some folk are just too dumb to accept their own limitations & will always have an unjustified sense of themselves despite constant failure.

As always it's worth a post in the bugs forum though.[/QUOTE]Possibly, although I doubt a team-talk can be as scary as (the anticipation of) parachuting, and they are not going to be overconfident every single time after the first time (the OP mentioned overconfident every single time).

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[quote name='x42bn6']Possibly, although I doubt a team-talk can be as scary as (the anticipation of) parachuting, and they are not going to be overconfident every single time after the first time (the OP mentioned overconfident every single time).[/QUOTE]
I do believe I covered all those points. ;)

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It's broken isn't it. None of it makes any sense anymore and it's just a lottery. I can lose two games in a row and my players look over confident and relaxed during the warm up only to then be nervous or uninterested when the match starts. What an absolute mess.

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Playing with Real Madrid and my players are nervous against a relegation team. 5 of Them ! how they must **** their pants when playing Champions league and World cup. I Think morale needs a fix too , the latest patch is not good enough. I also notice quite a drop in morale the last few games in a season even though teams are on a Winding run

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[quote name='big daddy']Playing with Real Madrid and my players are nervous against a relegation team. 5 of Them ! how they must **** their pants when playing Champions league and World cup. I Think morale needs a fix too , the latest patch is not good enough. I also notice quite a drop in morale the last few games in a season even though teams are on a Winding run[/QUOTE]

Were they regular first teamers? Is the relegation team not fighting for their lives?
Maybe they realise it won't be such an easy game after all, and you stated it would be a walk over in the press conference.

Also, last games of the season, on a winning run with Real Madrid, are the players not thinking of their holidays or considering their future?

I always tend to think 'what if' as FM doesnt explain the reasoning for everything.

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Beats me. In the BSS I had a player, Ashley Robinson (Hampton and richmond) and every match he's "doesn't seem interested".

Have faith talks or singling him out made him "happy" but then "nervous" in the game. He was very ambitious, but had poor team work. I assume he was one of those 'I'll get to the top on my own by doing nothing" types.

Needless to say, I never did offer him a contract. He's unmanagable for me and I have no time to babysit a Ballotelli-lite without the Ballotelli skills.

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I might be on a 10 game winning run, but still have to put up with many nervous players, these are players that have won everything in football at Inter and good proffesionals: samuel, zanetti , stankovic and pazzini, they were nervous against a bottom team (mid season) I asked calmly to do it for the fans pre game.
Why are so many players nervous recks after the last patch ?
I read the long fuss/cleon chat about teamtalks , but the aggresive I demand a victory would leave my players with low morale and on antidepressants.
These players could not be more proffesional and tough , but they seem like school kids after the patch.
any suggestion to get rid of the nervous morale , or else I will have to ask my assistant for diapers for my players

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I just drew a game, first lost points in 12 games, and my morale is not okay/fairly poor ?? seems like it is ment to drop no matter what. I have to have private chats with the players to tell them that they are doing well, so that they don´t keep dropping. Imagine that , telling players , hey you are doing ok, your 10 goals in 5 games is good enough for me.
Driving me nuts right now. I think that this game works best using my assistant as morale manager in teamtalks. it´s a shame I always made my own teamtalks before this .... new patch

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[quote name='dking']It's broken isn't it. None of it makes any sense anymore and it's just a lottery. What an absolute mess.[/QUOTE]I don't understand something, so it most be broken, nonsensical, arbitrary and an absolute mess.

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[quote name='SCIAG']I don't understand something, so it most be broken, nonsensical, arbitrary and an absolute mess.[/QUOTE]
No but something has changed and it does not seem logical now does it. I understand logic and this new nervousness does not make sence. More drops in morale is ok, but only if you don´t win. I am making other teams looking like a joke, why are my players still having morale issues. I looked at other leagues and the nr 1 in other leagues also seem to be having issues with morale.
great with denying the fact that many of us have noticed a big change for the worse in morale, I can use any tactic and it all comes down to this issue , would you not say that is worth a debate ?

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[quote name='big daddy']No but something has changed and it does not seem logical now does it. I understand logic and this new nervousness does not make sence. More drops in morale is ok, but only if you don´t win. I am making other teams looking like a joke, why are my players still having morale issues. I looked at other leagues and the nr 1 in other leagues also seem to be having issues with morale.
great with denying the fact that many of us have noticed a big change for the worse in morale, I can use any tactic and it all comes down to this issue , would you not say that is worth a debate ?[/QUOTE]

Its pretty logical. you say many, but then equally many others people have no issues with talks. And its not really a debate if someone immediately just announces its broken, without any real discussion.

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I am not only saying it´s broken, but it has changed ! that is a fact. and it does seem like many are complaining that their tactic is broken, when I think it is down to the morale issue.
I now always keep my game on split view, with one eye one morale, so that I can fix those issues at half time.
I am personally tired of telling model proffs. that I have faith, this should only be an issue for the young guys.
And I would like to to get some help with it ? like how do I get my nervous players to perform ?
I can now see within 20 min, if I have an nervous attacker that he will miss 100% chances , and I have to wait until halftime to give him faith , or remove him.
but how nervous are players that have won 5 leagues, world cups, champions leagues against bottom teams in mid season normally ?

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[quote name='big daddy']I am not only saying it´s broken, but it has changed ! that is a fact. and it does seem like many are complaining that their tactic is broken, when I think it is down to the morale issue.
I now always keep my game on split view, with one eye one morale, so that I can fix those issues at half time.
I am personally tired of telling model proffs. that I have faith, this should only be an issue for the young guys.
And I would like to to get some help with it ? like how do I get my nervous players to perform ?
I can now see within 20 min, if I have an nervous attacker that he will miss 100% chances , and I have to wait until halftime to give him faith , or remove him.
but how nervous are players that have won 5 leagues, world cups, champions leagues against bottom teams in mid season normally ?[/QUOTE]

That's linked to a tactic relying on fired up players (extra committed to the tackle/closing down) for it to work, this was quickly apparent post 12.1. Tactics dont "fall apart" due a change in morale unless they are badly balanced in the first place.

Morale and performance are generally linked. A team talk is not going to destroy a player, too much importance is given to team talks. You should be looking at why a player becomes nervous/complacent, and this could be down to a number of things going on on the pitch, for example i'm actually in a game now, and two player (highly determined players, pretty professional) are nervy now. Because the game isn't going their way, and i've noticed that both players are also under a lot of pressure from the opposition in their specific areas ( the amc is being marked out the game, constantly closed down, and the left back is having the opposition counter attack down him flank because he is set to a more offensive role, and is getting caught up the pitch. As a result he picked up a booking.

For the most part things happen for a reason, whether its morale, tactical issue, injuries etc. Always look for the why. Just because he is highly professional doesnt mean he cannot be unnerved. Just look at manchester united in some of the last few games. Highly driven players there, been through it all, relentless side, and yet they've been nervy. Things havent gone their way in a peroid of a match, play has been sloppy, pressure has been put on them in parts of games, and it creates a nervy side in match.

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ok now that was a good arguement ! but the thing I notice , when morale shows up after about 10-15 min, is that some of my players are already nervous. ok they are having a man marking and not getting space to play their game etc. But would that affect a player of world class ? let´s say the one of the best shooters in the game Milito ? he is used to it , when he is nervous he shoots past and empty net when served by his partner, when he is not he kills the ball into the net. I also check the other team to see if they are all having the game of their lives , but no, just playing ok .
And for the MAN utd reason , they have been playing badly because of the defence rotation and lack of midfield support of the full backs. that is tactical and easy to fix. ( don´t use rafael in big games )

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[quote name='big daddy']ok now that was a good arguement ! but the thing I notice , when morale shows up after about 10-15 min, is that some of my players are already nervous. ok they are having a man marking and not getting space to play their game etc. But would that affect a player of world class ? let´s say the one of the best shooters in the game Milito ? he is used to it , when he is nervous he shoots past and empty net when served by his partner, when he is not he kills the ball into the net. I also check the other team to see if they are all having the game of their lives , but no, just playing ok .
And for the MAN utd reason , they have been playing badly because of the defence rotation and lack of midfield support of the full backs. that is tactical and easy to fix. ( don´t use rafael in big games )[/QUOTE]

Yes some, of it is tactical, and it then has an effect on the players, they get nervy from the constant pressure, so instead of looking for that pass they just scramble it away (which is what Manchester United were doing again everton late on).

To your opening part, it may be whatever you said at the start is being exacerbated by what's going on on the pitch. Hard to say without seeing it myself. And yes it would, world class doesnt mean he wont be affected as much (thats down to his mental character, rather than status). You need to try and see if the nerves happening are because they not handling the initial occasion, or if they are coming under pressure in game, or both. That part isnt always easy to do

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[quote name='SCIAG']I don't understand something, so it most be broken, nonsensical, arbitrary and an absolute mess.[/QUOTE]

I think calling team talks anything other than a lottery is blatantly ignoring the random responses that cause people to call it such, it has nothing to do with the guy not understanding it!

How often would you have to reload the same team talk to get the same effects, its as impossible as drawing the same lottery numbers.

All areas of the game that require interaction are the same, from team talks to board interactions. After playing hundreds of hours myself, and continual experiments I would of expected most people to reach the same conclusion.

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so you are saying is that if that a world class player like Javier Zanetti is nervous , it is because he is being marked or tackled out of the game ? ever seen this machine play ? when under pressure he goes for a dribble past 3 players ! enough about my love for that man .
Does anyone know of change in this morale issue , is it the same or do player get more experience with games so they are less nervous. all though I would have to say that after winning everything as a player , you should get less nervous with things in this game.
Materazzi said that after being headbutted by zidane that he had seen it all , and knew how to treat players and what buttons to push. surely he could not get nervous? unless I would tell him to be world class every time ?
I am only using calm : do it for the fans

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Sorry for the Italian byas , I am from Iceland , but I have since I was a kid loved how Italian teams could dominate a game their way.

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[quote name='big daddy']so you are saying is that if that a world class player like Javier Zanetti is nervous , it is because he is being marked or tackled out of the game ? ever seen this machine play ? when under pressure he goes for a dribble past 3 players ! enough about my love for that man .
Does anyone know of change in this morale issue , is it the same or do player get more experience with games so they are less nervous. all though I would have to say that after winning everything as a player , you should get less nervous with things in this game.
Materazzi said that after being headbutted by zidane that he had seen it all , and knew how to treat players and what buttons to push. surely he could not get nervous? unless I would tell him to be world class every time ?
I am only using calm : do it for the fans[/QUOTE]

That's not what i said. I said it could be a reason. It isnt cut and dried. I cant see it without watching, I'm just giving you general tips. You need to watch and see why.

World class has little to with mental attributes of a player. Robinho is world class, yet he is mentally fragile, the kind of player who can go missing. Lucas isnt world class, yet mentally he is a rosk

And yes I have seen him Zanetti a lot. i also know that there have been times when he has had absolute rotters.

Of course Materazzi could get nervous, just because he said that doesn't mean he cant get bullied by his opposite man, constantly beaten one on one. It is not absolute.

Why are you only using "calm: do it for the fans" by the way?

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I find that to many players get nervous if I use assertive or god forbid agressiv.
And I would see more youth players or new players being nervous and relying on the rock of defence. aka "the wall Samuel" as he is know as in Italy.
but it would make more sence that players around 21 getting nervous and the guys that have been there before so many time do not. what is the point of experience then ?
I see terry not getting nervous and sturridge being against Barca. Damn I know , I will get a reply for that one, but that tackle was just old school english.
But I still miss the answer how do I get my nerve reckes to perform .

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My team seems to be finding more focus as closer we are getting to the final 3 , seria a , coppa and champions league final.

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Football Manager Handheld

Where you have to hold your players' hands to calm them down from their dysfunctional mental breakdowns.

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I thought I would add this into this thread... since its morale based... so...

How on earth is it possible that 2 of my players can be "enraged with my comments" in the press conference before a game... Where the main focal point of the press conference was "who do you think will win world player of the year" So I chose one out of 5 (none of them my players) and now they are enraged ?!?! What. the. hell.

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My player gets a 3.5 rating and it's probably the worst rating I've ever seen at a high level. He's single handedly knocked us out of a competition. I have a bit of a rage and fine him two weeks wages for a terrible performance, which, to my surprise, he accepts. I then go on to tell him that his performance in the last game was terrible and he tells me that he didn't think he played that badly and that I'm being unfair.

He's now on the transfer list because he didn't agree that he played badly after I told him it was unacceptable, and not because I fined him two weeks wages for playing badly.

I give up.

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[quote name='dking']My player gets a 3.5 rating and it's probably the worst rating I've ever seen at a high level. He's single handedly knocked us out of a competition. I have a bit of a rage and fine him two weeks wages for a terrible performance, which, to my surprise, he accepts. I then go on to tell him that his performance in the last game was terrible and he tells me that he didn't think he played that badly and that I'm being unfair.

He's now on the transfer list because he didn't agree that he played badly after I told him it was unacceptable, and not because I fined him two weeks wages for playing badly.

I give up.[/QUOTE]

Fines don't really depend on players' results AFAIK, it's mostly dependent on player's personality and relationship with you.

Match performance is interesting tho - for example, a player may have 7+ rating prior to scoring 3 own goals, dropping his rating to 4 or less. The player will STILL think he performed quite well cause while he made major mistakes, overall he played close to his ability. Another thing is, when a weak player is constantly overpowered by opponents and gets crap ratings, he won't agree that he played bad as well - cause he played close to his ability. Therefore, be a little bit careful with praises/complaints...

Most of the times I don't even complain unless fans confidence/coach advice tell me to drop a player for poor performance, and some players don't accept praises too... when you go to private talks for that, it's a hit or miss, and you can't know without trying.

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[quote name='SCIAG']I don't understand something, so it most be broken, nonsensical, arbitrary and an absolute mess.[/QUOTE]

I understand it perfectly. I understand that it's broken, nonsensical and an absolute mess.

And instead of being condescending, why don't you try adding something useful to the thread.

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[quote name='Macho M.']Fines don't really depend on players' results AFAIK, it's mostly dependent on player's personality and relationship with you.

Match performance is interesting tho - for example, a player may have 7+ rating prior to scoring 3 own goals, dropping his rating to 4 or less. The player will STILL think he performed quite well cause while he made major mistakes, overall he played close to his ability. Another thing is, when a weak player is constantly overpowered by opponents and gets crap ratings, he won't agree that he played bad as well - cause he played close to his ability. Therefore, be a little bit careful with praises/complaints...

Most of the times I don't even complain unless fans confidence/coach advice tell me to drop a player for poor performance, and some players don't accept praises too... when you go to private talks for that, it's a hit or miss, and you can't know without trying.[/QUOTE]

He wasn't a weak player, though, and his all around stats are very, very good. Not sure about the relationship but I do know I'm not on his favoured personel list.

Either way, for him to actually think it's unfair of me to accuse him of playing badly pretty much highlights how flawed it is.

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