S2008

Should I bother starting a save on FM 2012 or is it too broken?

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My god this thread has the most ridiculous OP i've read on these forums in a long time.

Yes the game issues, as does every other game that is ever made. You're only going found out if it's worth it if you try it yourself.

Also i wouldnt believe most of the people who bang on about problems with the game. Those people are usually just in denial about how rubbish they are at the game and would claim it is "fixed" than admit the obvious truth.

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I assuming it works differently now to what it used to, because your right in previous versions these teams would not have real players in them unless you told the game to load them. Is it maybe a case of if they are in a european comp at any level they will get a full team of players?

It could be new for FM12 then, as I don't think it was like that in last years game. I'm actually glad if thats the case then as it makes European matches better and more competative if these little clubs use real players from now on, but only if the add/remove option is fixed, otherwise its just another burden on processing times.

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I picked two african clubs at random from different nations and both have full squad lists and no greys.

stadetunisiensquadplaye.png"]stadetunisiensquadplaye.png[/url]

accraheartsofoakscsquad.png"]accraheartsofoakscsquad.png[/url]

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Was it like that on FM11? I'm sure these type of smallish non-loaded clubs were full of grey players?

I've no idea, but my initial database had a few extra players loaded which could be a reason for me having them.

My initial database was about 44k, my player search now shows 40k so it doesn't look like it has expanded at all (which makes sense seeing as I've not added/removed any leagues).

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My god this thread has the most ridiculous OP i've read on these forums in a long time .

Yes the game issues, as does every other game that is ever made. You're only going found out if it's worth it if you try it yourself.

Also i wouldnt believe most of the people who bang on about problems with the game. Those people are usually just in denial about how rubbish they are at the game and would claim it is " fixed" than admit the obvious truth.

Yeah its a good point, you will notice the same posters in all of these threads making the problems seem bigger than they are, i honestly have played this game every day since it came out, im yet to have a mental breakdown because my centre back was 5 yards out of position, or because Ronaldo doesnt score every 30 yard shot he attempts. Its a game, a very good game, but its always going to have issues and things not quite right, if your looking for a perfect game, i would give up playing video games and find monopoly.

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How do you find out how many players are currently in your game's database?

You'll need something like fmrte, or possibly genie scout (never used the latter so can't say for sure).

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It could be new for FM12 then, as I don't think it was like that in last years game. I'm actually glad if thats the case then as it makes European matches better and more competative if these little clubs use real players from now on, but only if the add/remove option is fixed, otherwise its just another burden on processing times.

Haha this thread has inspired me to walk home in the rain for lunch and check it out! :)

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I picked two african clubs at random from different nations and both have full squad lists and no greys.

Cheers marty.

Have you used the add/remove leagues option in your game?

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you can only load south africa.

game puts random players in, newgens etc at the start.

it gets interesting when you get random U20 internationals at no club whatsoever

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And this come from certified statistics I suppose?

A satisfied customer doesn't mean that a product is necessarily good. It means that is good enough for that individual. Each person has different standards on what to expect from giving away his money,so no,you don't prove that the game is good.

And if for every complaint there were 1000 satisfied customers,then that means FM has sold at least a couple million copies...Hmm,let's see...with that amount of income I'm even more unsatisfied and I expect to see much more than absolutely no fully functioning features than last year and zero polishing on the already existant features.

See? It's all a matter of perceptive. If 3/4 of the american citizens are satisfied with their goverments war politics,that doesn't mean it's good as well.

Seriously??

No I wasn't quoting actual statistics as that would be nigh on impossible, it was just a general theory that the people complaining about certain features are in the minority, whilst the majority of customers don't post on here. Perhaps I should have said 1 vs 10,000 or even 1 vs 100,000. If you want the actual figures, I suggest doing a survey.

Also, I think you mean perspective rather than perceptive.

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You'll need something like fmrte, or possibly genie scout (never used the latter so can't say for sure).

how do you check with FMRTE?

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how do you check with FMRTE?

upon loading the game look at the bottom of the screen, it will show how many players (and staff and clubs) are in the game

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haha id never noticed that.

Strange, my game says i only have 70246 players and 20982 staff, i started with England to league 2, scotland to division 3, spain to league 2, germany to league 2 and italy to league 2 loaded at the start, i have since added croatia to league 2 then took off league 2 when my feeder team was promoted, same with romania and i added and removed portugal and holland, then added the top league in holland again, so it doesnt seem like its messed up my numbers, id have expected a lot more than that by what ive read on here, would also explain why my game hasnt slowed down at all.

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Cheers marty.

Have you used the add/remove leagues option in your game?

Yes, I have added/removed quite a few leagues over 10 years and have gone from 30k(IIRC) to 170k.

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This game is not broken. It runs very well with surprisingly few bugs.

I add & remove leagues (never add more than I delete) & have nnever had any problems.

Sure there are too many goals from corners, but that's always been there.

Sure the team talks/press conferences are a waste of space, so don't use them!

Play the game OP, it's fine!

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I know this test is not complete proof I started a game with a small database and only England loaded this told me there would be 7,000 players in my game. I managed Man United and went to the player search which told me there was 6451 players and 3190 staff. I then added Brazil, MLS, South Africa and Spain using the add/remove league feature when I go to the player search there are now 40,746 and 7,544 staff.

If I start a new game with England, small database and the leagues I added there are only 16,451 players and 5,467 on the staff or 27,000 according to the starting screen.

Like I said I know this is not definitive proof but adding the leagues mid game add a hell of a lot more players than it does if you load these leagues in the first place.

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Yeah its a good point, you will notice the same posters in all of these threads making the problems seem bigger than they are, i honestly have played this game every day since it came out, im yet to have a mental breakdown because my centre back was 5 yards out of position, or because Ronaldo doesnt score every 30 yard shot he attempts. Its a game, a very good game, but its always going to have issues and things not quite right, if your looking for a perfect game, i would give up playing video games and find monopoly.

Oh come on...

Stop pretending those who complain do so just because they suck at FM or are nitpicking about marginal aspects of the game.

Here we're talking about the Top New Feature being broken to the point of making a savegame unplayable when used! And then there are problems we've been dealing with for years despite having reported them over and over again. (AI transfers, AI managers appointments etc)

So I find dishonest lumping all those legit criticism together with trivial stuff like "I can't win, the game is cheating".

The OP asked for advice, and some gave a honest and not-so-flattering opinion. The game IS playable, enjoyable and everything, but it has flaws, HUGE flaws that can't be ignored.

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Are people with huge databases adding leagues in different continents? I'm just thinking all the leagues i had added and removed have been in Europe, but maybe adding from other continents are adding huge numbers of players because of that?

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Are people with huge databases adding leagues in different continents? I'm just thinking all the leagues i had added and removed have been in Europe, but maybe adding from other continents are adding huge numbers of players because of that?

Yes but only Brazil and Argentina from outside Europe.

EDIT - I must add that I abused this feature somewhat in that I changed leagues around every season for about 5 seasons without realising the impact. That is probably why I'm not more annoyed by it.

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Are people with huge databases adding leagues in different continents? I'm just thinking all the leagues i had added and removed have been in Europe, but maybe adding from other continents are adding huge numbers of players because of that?

I think adding different continents could be part of the problem if you start a save with a large database and Brazil only the player will differ from a large database and only England loaded. When adding a new league the game should only add players from that league my example above proves that is not what is happening.

I was looking forward to playing FM12 mainly because of this feature. I do a challenge where I move from continent to continent trying to win the Champions League on each. When I heard this feature I thought it would enhance my game meaning I could start with 10 leagues in Asia and upon winning the Asian CL could remove those leagues and add a bunch of South American ones. This is impossible without using FMRTE which I do not want to use, I have never been as disappointed with a feature in any FM as I am with this poorly implemented joke of a feature.

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haha id never noticed that.

Strange, my game says i only have 70246 players and 20982 staff, i started with England to league 2, scotland to division 3, spain to league 2, germany to league 2 and italy to league 2 loaded at the start, i have since added croatia to league 2 then took off league 2 when my feeder team was promoted, same with romania and i added and removed portugal and holland, then added the top league in holland again, so it doesnt seem like its messed up my numbers, id have expected a lot more than that by what ive read on here, would also explain why my game hasnt slowed down at all.

did you add them from scratch of were they "view only" leagues at the start ? Did you load any aditional players at the start ? What number did you start with ?

Might help get to the bottom of this.

I started with England 1-3, Germany 1+2, Spain 1+2, France 1, Italy 1 as playable, a bunch of europeans countries and brazil/Argentina as view only. Loaded all top division players from europe as well as argentina/brazil as well as all national team players from Europe and South America. DB size was about 65k, then it went down to about 60k and stayed there until 2015. Then i saved my game and created a backup to test it out by adding the netherlands and 2 months later DB size was allready up to 80K, am going to run a holiday later tonight till april (regen dates passed) to see where it then stands.

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Acid can you do me a favour, since im back at work and not at my fm, can you load a game with the set up i have further up and tell me how many players it should load? If you cant be bothered its cool ill do a comparison later on, just really out of interest. I would have used a large database as well when starting up.

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did you add them from scratch of were they "view only" leagues at the start ? Did you load any aditional players at the start ? What number did you start with ?

Might help get to the bottom of this.

I started with England 1-3, Germany 1+2, Spain 1+2, France 1, Italy 1 as playable, a bunch of europeans countries and brazil/Argentina as view only. Loaded all top division players from europe as well as argentina/brazil as well as all national team players from Europe and South America. DB size was about 65k, then it went down to about 60k and stayed there until 2014. Then adding the netherlands and 2 months later DB size was allready up to 80K, am going to run a holiday till april (regen dates passed) to see where it then stands.

The leagues at the start were full detail and the leagues added were not loaded at the start, Holland maybe was i cant quite remember, i messed around with the feature when it was first out just to see how it worked. Croatia and Romania and Portugal were def not added at the start. I didnt load any players and used a large database, but i dont know what numbers that gives. In summary:

Scotland to division 3

England to league 2

Spain to league 2

Italy to league 2

Germany to league 2

Holland division 1 (maybe at the start then removed then added back in)

Portugal to league 1 added then removed

Romania to league 2 then just league 1

Croatia the same

Large database

no players added.

Game is sitting around 70k players right now and 20k staff, almost every player will be regen staff will be mixed.

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The add/remove feature only becomes a problem once your database exceeds the recommended amount, which I think is 175,000 players. So some people who haven't reached that point yet won't experience the problems others have.

Thats my take on it anyway.

What will become a problem for everyone is if the game keeps generating players for leagues you've removed. If that happens, it doesn't matter wether you start with a small, medium, or large db, or never add more than you remove, you'll eventually end up with a bloated db that grinds to a halt, or crashes often.

Thats the question I'd like answering. Are players being constantly generated for leagues that were once added, but then removed? I haven't played long enough since edting my db with fmrte to say one way or the other yet. I hope not as it'll mean I'll have to use fmrte every season to strip out thousands of low PA regens.

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Acid can you do me a favour, since im back at work and not at my fm, can you load a game with the set up i have further up and tell me how many players it should load? If you cant be bothered its cool ill do a comparison later on, just really out of interest. I would have used a large database as well when starting up.

England to league 2, scotland to division 3, spain to league 2, germany to league 2 and italy to league 2 at the start has 29,000 players with a large database. Even if you add Holland, Romania, Croatia and Portugal at the start you would only start the game with 46,000 players.

So loading the leagues with the add/remove feature means a lot more players are added to the game then if you start with the leagues loaded.

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Yeah so it has still added a lot of extra players, for some reason i thought that set up would have had more players in it. Ill need to keep an eye on how the database size is for the next few seasons.

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Yeah so it has still added a lot of extra players, for some reason i thought that set up would have had more players in it. Ill need to keep an eye on how the database size is for the next few seasons.

It just really annoys me, England with a large database is 12,000 players at the start, if I add Brazil at the start it goes to 17,000. If I added Brazil with this feature it would go to 25,000.

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One other quick question, does the database numbers at the start include staff? If not my game will have added about 40,000 extra people altogether. :eek:

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Not sure, I think it might be just players.

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The number at the start is only players, checked that early on myself. From what i can tell the number of staff doesn´t go up when using the feature as by default there´s a lot of staff added (especially if you tick the box to add them), that looks to be a non issue.

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Not sure, I think it might be just players.

Still its a hell of an increase for adding small nations if it is.

I honestly hadnt noticed this until today, my game runs slower than it did at the start but thats to be expected 25 years in, its not any slower than i would have expected by now. I have had the leagues added for the best part of 15 seasons now as well, not touched it since i got my last feeder club in Croatia.

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One other thing actually, sorry for all the posts, at what point of the season are people checking on the database size? Will it make a difference if its around the time regens are made?

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Still its a hell of an increase for adding small nations if it is.

I honestly hadnt noticed this until today, my game runs slower than it did at the start but thats to be expected 25 years in, its not any slower than i would have expected by now. I have had the leagues added for the best part of 15 seasons now as well, not touched it since i got my last feeder club in Croatia.

that´s actually semi-encouraging to me as 46K---->70K 25 years in with a couple of added/removed leagues seems at least manageable. I only want to add the Netherlands (as i took over the national team and plan to manager there in a couple years as well), it went from 60K to 80K. If that´s all it is and/or it regulates itself (your numbers seem to suggest one or the other compared to numbers we had in different topics where it was often a massive short-term spike in numbers that was worrisome, for me as well in an earlier save).

So there´s at least some hope for me personally, maybe throw in a couple thousand forced retirements via fmrte.

Like i said, i´ll try to run a holiday save tonight from 2015 on to see how it develops adding 1 country.

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Yeah my game could maybe suggest that the increase is a short term spike and not a long term thing that gradually increases. From what i remember the game tries to keep a level number of players as it progresses, so if that still works then in the long term my database maybe wont expand any further, but the increase would have happened when i added the leagues 15 seasons ago. Im just at the start of a new season, so ill have a look at the end of the season, prob by this weekend and see what the numbers say.

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I think the it's more of a problem adding countries from other continents.

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some interesting initial numbers, taken in June and then directly after the new league was added (dutch first division)

total players before after 61424/72783

regens before after 30638/30304 (so there´s less regens now after initially adding the league)

england : regens 2476 ---- 2566 real players 1817/ 2652

netherlands : 471 --- 641 / 718 --- 1952

brazil : 465 --- 540 / 1114 --- 1566 (!)

russia : 684 --- 704 / 460 --- 471

why does the game "regenerates" 800 english players when i add the dutch Erdivisie ?

total players through the months (allways on the 7th), major regen dates stated :

september 76441 (sweden and asian countries)

october 84245 (brazil and african countries)

november 84719 (no league i´ve loaded)

december 84670 (no league i´ve loaded

january 84672

february (middle america) 85631

march (smaller europan countries) 87315

april (most major european countries and argentina) 111059

june 15th : 106867

July 15th : 106843

regen players before adding and after april 5th : 30636/72343

it´´s distributed pretty much in line with the initial numbers, it seems as if the game adds regens for every country, basically acting as if you´ve added every possible league (f.e. the number of english regens went up from 2600 to 4600)

so basically the initial adding of players somewhat works (except that it adds too many in nations where it shouldn´t do that) but after that it just goes haywire ... And remember, this is just 1 league added ! And not from scratch, but view only with all players loaded.

on the positive side of things, it didn´t apear to slow down the sim. Of course that was a holiday sim with me jobless and everything on no detail, but still.

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My god this thread has the most ridiculous OP i've read on these forums in a long time.

Yes the game issues, as does every other game that is ever made. You're only going found out if it's worth it if you try it yourself.

Also i wouldnt believe most of the people who bang on about problems with the game. Those people are usually just in denial about how rubbish they are at the game and would claim it is "fixed" than admit the obvious truth.

What does this have to do with the OP? You are trolling.

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the game keeps on adding players in season 2.

september 110k

october 116k

so basically the same sort of increases than in the first year.

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I'm watching my game carefully and have gone from 172,000 to 182,000 from september to december. If anymore players are added in Jan I fear for my save. I've only got a laptop.

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The only benefit of this feature is to remove leagues from what I can see.

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Sad but true. I'm trying to edit out loads of players and I think that is my last chance for this save.

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Would be nice if SI commented on this.

Will it be fixed, or is 12.2.2 the last ever patch for this years game?

If its not going to be fixed I may as well start a new game and avoid using the add/remove leagues feature altogether. Having to relying on a third party program to salvage our saves is a real let down considering one of the biggest selling points of FM12 for some people was this feature.

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I doubt there will be any further patching of FM12, SI will be deep into the final development of 13 by now.

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What does this have to do with the OP? You are trolling.

Please, don't embarrass yourself.

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Please, don't embarrass yourself.

Look who's talking. What are you even talking about?

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Look who's talking. What are you even talking about?

Read what I initially posted, the clue is in there.

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Let's not ruin another thread please. Cut it out.

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I load all the players from all the continents at the start of the game, 305000, so am I correct in assuming that adding/removing leagues will have no drawbacks for me?

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Read what I initially posted, the clue is in there.

What you initially posted was off-topic and nonsense. Have you even read the discussion? What the hell has success to do with anything?

The OP asked three questions, really. Are team talks broken, are there too many injuries and is the add/remove leagues feature broken. The answers are yes (as a result of the silly starting reputation feature), no and yes.

Do you have arguments, or are you just going to stick your head in the sand and mumble rubbish?

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