ArsenalFan7

Why is the AI so much better at finishing?

601 posts in this topic

The remainder of your post is total nonsense. This thread won't be closed unless people start wading in being personal. The thread about the game being too easy posted prior to 12.1 resulted in a concerted effort from developers, moderators and users to discover what the issue was. A successful concerted effort too. If I think somebody has discovered a genuinely new and big bug, I'll personally report it to Paul.

Oh really? Is it?

Because other moderators agree with the exact opposite things of you. They would say that the woodworks is because I create a lot of CCC and try to fool the ME,nothing is said about the own goals and the only thing they agree about is the defense. Which they'd better agree with,because the defense of the PC controlled team is just crap,and no,it's not anyone tactics that the defenders will forget to play football at the worst times.

Injuries are bugged as well. The amount of injuries is not bugged,I agree,it's "close to real numbers",like other moderators would say. What's wrong is how much close those injuries are to each other. Instead of giving as sporadic injuries,the game just bombards the player with injuries every few months. Having 1-2 injuries is really rare. Players either find themselves with a clean sheet or with having 6 of their basic players injured. And there's nothing we can do about it. And please spare me the "it's my tactics or training",my training is medium on intensity and my players always start with 100% condition and end with around 60-70%. And I always give a 1 day rest after each match as well! And when playing below the top division it's even worse,since you will have players with lower physical stats.

My post is total nonsense? I got a ban because I told a moderator that something he was calling a "bug" is not,but no,I continuously had my posts deleted and myself censored. Then I get banned because I took it personal against him? I got banned because I reacted to being treated like sending letters from Alcatraz?

While I was banned I saw a post about a problem being reported and the exact same moderator said that "if you got any problems,report it to the bugs forum". The exact same problem was reported by me personally a week ago and he had no clue about it,yet the only excuse he had was "the bugs forums"? Yet I'm the one being illogical?

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What about lacking consistency, lacking composure, making a bad decision, getting complacent against a smaller team. Whenever a result goes against me (Fm11) I try to think that the result is what the simulator is trying to get me to respond to. So if I lose against smaller teams, yeah, I will look at whether we created chances, did we close them down, but just as important, are my players determined and professional enough to not get complacent, and not switch off. Was my team talk and press conference appropriate (in terms of telling my players its not going to be a walk in the park, for e.g.).

Any way, if you lose 1-0 the problem isn't only that you were scored on in ridiculous fashion, its that your club was unable to get the goals flowing. How many times I have tried to attack teams down to 10 men I couldn't tell you, but has it worked? Rarely. So is FM *****? I don't think so, the team down a man takes a defensive mentality and camps in front of goal. If you are in a hurry to score you will create lots of 1/2 chances and take shots from all over, but are they actually quality chances? A more patient approach seems to work for me (and my tactics) almost every time I find myself unable to break down the opposition with my standard attacking play.

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I can completely understand both sides of the argument here.

When things are going wrong, we can analyse it and spot the problem, sometimes we can't. Sometimes if we miss chances, there is something wrong with our tactics, sometimes it maybe a lack of luck.

I test many different tactics many times in practice games, and I'll win one, and loose the next, against the same team, yet the only difference between the two games was just one player's reaction during the team talk; it wasn't my tactics, because I kept them identical. I wouldn't have known this had I not practised. It isn't always our tactics, there could be innumerate reasons, and only we can either try to solve them, or accept them, no one really has the perfect solution.

But I also understand the intensity at loosing after having many chances, yet this does occur IRL, whether we like it or not (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17570800). But I do understand how difficult it is to accept this occurring on a computer game. We're used to having umpteen lives on game, and even if we die, an autosave gives us another opportunity. Whereas in we loose on FM, we loose, and it could mean the end of a full season, and that's hard to take, but I suppose this is as close to RL footy management we can get, and if we wish to feel the highs, we have to accept the lows.

I will confess though, I really struggle to accept this on a computer game, and I know now it is a question of accepting the game as it is. We can't change it. What I would suggest is maybe SI include a difficulty level for novice (or impatient) gamers (like me :D). Or maybe the goal conversion rate could even be manually adjusted when you select a new game, to suit everyone's acceptable goal conversion rate level.

I suppose one could question that if there is such a conversion rate within the game, is a player's ability to actually score a chance taken into account, or does the conversion rate override their attributes? Is it the conversion rate that forces a player to miss?

Lastly, once we've bought the game it's all ours, to play with how we please, and if you feel you've lost a game by hook or by crook, you can always save it beforehand and replay it. And what a better way to learn how not to loose? And trial and error is the most natural way how to learn something anyway. No one has any right to say how the game should be played, it's all yours.

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I am pretty sure that the AI is not "so much better at finishing", it might appear that it does - but this can be explained as there is some form of logic behind it. I think that if the AI does appear to be able "to finish better" then it most likely will be because the AI usually is very good at using the correct strategies (for the match), so if the Human User is not (so good at it) then you will get some of the type of results that I have seen in this thread.

I think that many people haven't understood this part of the game as it has more influence than one might think. The CONTROL Strategy (for example) in many ways has a misleading aspect, the Strategy does not mean that you will necessarily "control" the game (other strategies can easily control just as much or even more - especially if you use the correct one for the match). In reality this type of tactic if used at home to a much weaker opponent does not possess enough "overpowering" values to actually break down this type of opponent - even if the Match Stats indicate that you do. Using the wrong type of Strategy usually throws your games more into the 'random' reality which is not always the best way to have good result form over a longer periode of time. I'm not saying that it won't work, but my experience is that using the (more or less) correct strategies will help you do better than worse in the long run. There are always going to be some form of random aspects in the game, but will argue that these types of things happens less frequently when you start using the strategy reality in the game to your advantage.

The better your team gets and the better results you acheive will actually make your opponents play more defensively, in the FM world that means that the AI will emphasize more on the defensive values that the sliders create making it harder for your team to overpower them, this explains why people's tactics seem to 'dry up' over a course of time. You have to understand how to use the values to 'overpower' your opponents (either defensively or offensively) and you can do this by using the ingame strategies...

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Thats a more balanced post from you Bullybeef:p.

I think the biggest problem is people expecting to win just because they are the better team or on better form. We all know that, both in real life and in FM, this is not always the case. Sometimes it can just be bad luck and the bad luck factor is the reason I rarely believe those that claim to have gone the season unbeaten.

I think trying to judge what is happening in a match just from the stats can also be an issue. People seem to think that because they have more possession and are having more shots that they are playing well when actually watching the matches will show your teams wasting chances and losing possession in dangerous areas. The quality of chances, as has been stated many times, is more important than the quantity.

There is a difficulty level of sorts and that is your starting rep as a manager. I have personally tried starting as "International footballer" and this definately makes things easier in the short term.

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I know marty78, I've changed (being a LFC supporter helps :D)!!

I just played a great quality game of pass and move away in a tricky European Champions League game. Missed an loads of chances (2 one on ones and 2 penalties!!!), scored with a 25 yrd FK, and absolutely pass them off the park, but I still refused to change my tactics because we were playing so well. I have to put the misses down the the fickle fate of FM luck, and hope another team will pay the price!

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A Liverpool fan eh? Well then I'm sure you'll know about failing to win matches you are favorite for given their home record this season. I am a Leicester fan so i feel your pain.

Edit - Only just seen Loverleapers post and it is very well put.

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really getting annoyed, every away game, my players miss every tap in or get one dissalowed wrongly, or are offside. then they score near the end on thier first shot.

FM luck, doesnt come into it, just plain rediculous especially as i have to rest decent players because of one dumb friendly that was thrown into a week where i have a midweek game

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Injuries are bugged as well. The amount of injuries is not bugged,I agree,it's "close to real numbers",like other moderators would say. What's wrong is how much close those injuries are to each other. Instead of giving as sporadic injuries,the game just bombards the player with injuries every few months. Having 1-2 injuries is really rare. Players either find themselves with a clean sheet or with having 6 of their basic players injured. And there's nothing we can do about it. And please spare me the "it's my tactics or training",my training is medium on intensity and my players always start with 100% condition and end with around 60-70%. And I always give a 1 day rest after each match as well! And when playing below the top division it's even worse,since you will have players with lower physical stats.

I think you may be on to something here, here's my most recent example:

Robin has just returned from injury. Next game Hanousek and Teffera (Only other remaining strikers) go off injured and they're out for 3-4 weeks and 3-4 months, convenient. Not suspect at all, Teffera is especially interesting considering he is never injured.

So now with 1 striker left for the majority of the season remaining a 4-6-0 may have to take use at times.

And then earlier on in the season just had a region where I was barraged with injuries and couldn't even put 7 on the bench, then there's other times I have barely any injuries.

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it isn't helped by the fact you get a one week international break, i see squad for next match, only 3 players at 100% 100%, ALL left and right backs below 95% bar one newgen. which is what i call, an injury magnet

there is also far to many offsides in this game. correct ones, and the rediculous ones.

players seem to be able to chip the keeper easier then score from a free kick, which is very strange.

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I think you may be on to something here, here's my most recent example:

And then earlier on in the season just had a region where I was barraged with injuries and couldn't even put 7 on the bench, then there's other times I have barely any injuries.

If you have so many injuries you can't field a full bench, then your squad management is suspect. Seems to me that you don't have enough players. Furthermore, if you only have three forwards in the squad, you will end up over playing them, which results in a higher likelihood of them being injured.

While I'd agree that there is slightly too high an occurrence of players getting injured in match, in general it is very possible to manage your squad so injuries rarely become a major issue.

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just had a game where all my 4 world class defenders (who play together for 2 years in Real Madrid and had superb morale) playing like kids and AI had 4 targets on shot and made 4 goals, that's a 100% ratio. Oh and the tactic is the same for 2 years and destroys even Barcelona. No AI BIAS? yeah right i guess some ****** manager from a lower team can obviously be a better manager then all the other AI world class teams...

currently replaying the game, AI 1st crossing of the game and shot = 1 goal, 2nd shot on target = goal, defenders once again not marking ppl inside penalty area.

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Why can't people just accept losses as "one of those things"? There's no conspiracy, no rubber banding, no AI cheats. You just lost a virtual football match.

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Why can't people just accept losses as "one of those things"? There's no conspiracy, no rubber banding, no AI cheats. You just lost a virtual football match.

because people buy a game to have fun and loosing due to players being bad against lower rep teams isn't definition of fun and there is almost nothing we can do to change those players attitudes. and no teamtalks only won't fix their attitude on the field. and i don't see big team players being bad against my low rep teams.

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because people buy a game to have fun and loosing due to players being bad against lower rep teams isn't definition of fun and there is almost nothing we can do to change those players attitudes. and no teamtalks only won't fix their attitude on the field. and i don't see big team players being bad against my low rep teams.

What would you like fixing? That you never lose to teams worse than you?

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What would you like fixing? That you never lose to teams worse than you?

i would like the loose because a better manager from AI was able to beat me and not because of the stupid reputation thing or because 1 bad teamtalk screws half the team or because my AM who isn't agressive suddenly decided to play karate in a champs league and getting a sent off.

i seriously dunno why SI decided to make a new match engine in fm11 and tweak it a bit and put it again on fm12. fm10 also had it's problems but was way more realistic then what we have today.

here's the problems i see with fm12:

players missing too many 1 vs 1

defenders are bad when it comes to marking

too many balls hitting the bar/post

lower team reputation vs big team reputation is one sided, always works bad for the big team. smaller team players nervous or afraid of big team ? don't see that

the karate attitude of a player who has less then 10 points in agression and has superb moral

the fact that player stats and reputation seems to have no effect on how easy they can get nervous if you make a bad teamtalk.

AI players always determined to score a goal even if they are loosing 3-0 or more meanwhile our players go ape mode

all those previous problems when put into an offsensive tactic makes the game seen as Biased because that will happen way more often to us. the shot on target/goals ratio is fine though.

now about what i want, i want to not struggle everytime i face a small team, i want not to steam roll big teams that makes them looklike amateurs. on my 1st game as manager with Real Madrid against Barcelona i steam rolled them 4-0, i was happy sure but then with same tactic on next game i loose against a small team the only thing that comes to mind is WTF why are they missing so many goals, why cant Ronaldo score a freaking 1 vs 1

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Sometimes **** happens and players get sent off.

Out of interest, what changes do you make when playing weak teams? How do you approach these matches in terms of motivation and tactics?

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Sometimes **** happens and players get sent off.

Out of interest, what changes do you make when playing weak teams? How do you approach these matches in terms of motivation and tactics?

i don't like teamtalks so Assistant manager takes care of it, he has 18 in group management and players either react good or just stay the same.

big teams: DCs defending, DL/DR support, MC defensive, MC offsensive, AML/AMR wingers, 2 strikers

small teams: i change MC offensive to either defensive or winning ball, AML/AMR usually go inside forwards however if center is too crowded they stay wingers.

i always play in attacking mentality, if i go lower then that my team will just start giving way too many posession and eventually conceed a goal. oh and the slider for defensive line is always in the middle

even though i understand noone is a perfect manager it doens't make sense for Ronaldo or Messi go ape mode against small teams...

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i don't like teamtalks so Assistant manager takes care of it, he has 18 in group management and players either react good or just stay the same.

big teams: DCs defending, DL/DR support, MC defensive, MC offsensive, AML/AMR wingers, 2 strikers

small teams: i change MC offensive to either defensive or winning ball, AML/AMR usually go inside forwards however if center is too crowded they stay wingers.

i always play in attacking mentality, if i go lower then that my team will just start giving way too many posession and eventually conceed a goal. oh and the slider for defensive line is always in the middle

Your unwillingness to play more patient football says a lot. You are inviting the counter. Especially so with a 4-2-4.

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Your unwillingness to play more patient football says a lot. You are inviting the counter. Especially so with a 4-2-4.

from my experience in fm12 patient football = more relaxed players. i tried and all my players did were shooting less scoring less and still conceeding in counter attacks.

and as for those CA it's usually because some player went ape mode and missed a easy tackle or messi/ronaldo missed a drible against some AMC...

off to bed now, thanks for your responses

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Yu have very little cover with an attacking 4-2-4, so missed tackles are to be expected. I'd also be wary of playing more patiently with a 4-2-4. I'd look to be keeping more players behind the ball. Perhaps a 4-3-3/4-51 or a 4-2-3-1 Deep.

By playing an attacking 4-2-4, you will win some games by big scorelines, but you risk losing goals from counter attacks, which plays into the hands of weaker sides.

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Playing Devil's advocate here, I do think there's is more of an issue when a lower rep team, particularly one that is in poor form, and only has a small squad, seems to overcome moral and fitness issues when they play a human player.

If moral can hit the human team so drastically that they suddenly can't string two passes together, when they have done so against other teams, yet a lower rep opponent suddenly passes them off the park, that can seem to be a little one sided.

Why does low moral and poor condition not affect the AI teams?

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Playing Devil's advocate here, I do think there's is more of an issue when a lower rep team, particularly one that is in poor form, and only has a small squad, seems to overcome moral and fitness issues when they play a human player.

If moral can hit the human team so drastically that they suddenly can't string two passes together, when they have done so against other teams, yet a lower rep opponent suddenly passes them off the park, that can seem to be a little one sided.

Why does low moral and poor condition not affect the AI teams?

In all My saves, AI teams DOES get affected by their poor morale, especially if I manage to get ahead or use OIs on those players acting nervouse, playing poorly etc. Not all teams struggling have poor morale though, hence they dont suffer from it.

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He just got caught out. You're playing a 4-1-2-2-1 with attacking wingers who in this ME basically play as strikers and never track back (especially on attacking mentality), leaving your full backs constantly one on one with the opposition wingers.

Yes, if you play with AML/AMR, their mentality should be mid-normal at most for your baseline tactic. In fact, as a general rule, the more naturally "attacking" your formation, the more you should tone down overall mentality as AMC/AML/AMR mentality settings correspond to significantly higher MC/ML/MR mentalities (meaning they will not contribute to the defensive phase if their mentality is high-normal or attacking).

And since the 12.1 morale changes, ultra-attacking tactics have lost their previous advantage. Players no longer get a huge, long-term morale boost from obliterating smaller opposition, so you now need a more balanced standard tactic. This is the reason why many popular plug-and-play tactics no longer work, and it's also why many AI managers that were good in FM11 are very poor in FM12. As you may recall, Arsenal under Wenger typically came to dominate the EPL in FM11 whereas, in FM12.1 and beyond, Wenger's high attacking attribute and very offensive formation typically get him sacked within two seasons. On the other hand, AI managers like Rafa Benitez, who use a generally offensive formation (4231 Deep) but a balanced mentality, tend to find much more success in FM12 than they did in FM11.

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Yu have very little cover with an attacking 4-2-4, so missed tackles are to be expected. I'd also be wary of playing more patiently with a 4-2-4. I'd look to be keeping more players behind the ball. Perhaps a 4-3-3/4-51 or a 4-2-3-1 Deep.

By playing an attacking 4-2-4, you will win some games by big scorelines, but you risk losing goals from counter attacks, which plays into the hands of weaker sides.

it's not really a 4-2-4, it's more like 4-2-2-2

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it's not really a 4-2-4, it's more like 4-2-2-2

If the central midfielders are not DMC's, WWfan is right about that tactic being risky. The wingers will behave like strikers both in the AMRL position and the FRL position. In fact, AMRL players are natural in FRL as well even though it doesn't look like that in the Positions screen. I don't think it is possible to achieve good defending using TC role and duties only in this formation; the defense will be too passive and aggression and decisiveness is essential. The moment one of your defenders or midfielders close down a player and doesn't manage to either win possession right then and there, or to stress him to do a defensive pass, you basically have one half of a football field of space littered with randomly placed players who can do little to prevent the opponent to do whatever they want. The four guys up front certainly score the goals, though!

It helps moving the MC's to DMC position because they are more correctly positioned both when attacking and defending then. The four guys up front manage fine on their own. The problem when using pure TC is that you can't set defenders and defensive midfielders to be attacking (aggressive) enough so you end up with a six-man defense that hesitates and withdraws from challenges when that is the worst thing they could possibly do. Maybe setting the entire team to "Overload" and then make the four forwards as defensive as possible would do the trick...

No wonder your world class defenders play like kids :p

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Missing good quality chances will always be inflammatory, maybe because there doesn't seem to be a feasible solution. The way I play is to create numerous good quality chances, and I have tried many different tactical connotations. And I even changed my tactics prior to a reserve game or youth game to see how they get on.

But it seems nothing prevents my players from missing decent chances. I just beat Barca 1-0, and hammered them on chances, and without any question, they have to be the luckiest side I have faced. One one occasion the ball trickled across the goal line whist their defender and GK desperately tried to clear without scoring an own goal - how they managed this I don't know.

In my investigation to remedy missing good quality chances, I have tried.

High CF - Low CF - Balanced CF for my Att/Creative players = The only visual difference was the amount of chances I create; the lower the CF, the fewer the chances, but quality chances are still missed.

High Tempo - Low Tempo - Balanced Tempo = A higher tempo seems to move the ball around swifter, a lower tempo seems to create fewer chances, but quality chances are still missed.

High Att Mentalities - Low Att Mentalities - Balanced Att Mentalities = Again the lower the Att Mentalities, the fewer chances I create, but quality chances are still missed.

Rare Time Wasting - High Time Wasting - Balanced Time Wasting = Fewer chances created with high time wasting, but quality chances are still missed.

I really crave a simplified solution to this problem. Having exhausted all possibilities, I find scoring the first goal absolutely vital, then I tend to experiment on improving my shots to goals ratio, with little consistency (I seem to score more half chances). Luckily I seem to have understood a decent defensive structure, but I'm afraid it's making the game very dull, and the lack of reward for some great attacking endeavour is highly frustrating.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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If the central midfielders are not DMC's, WWfan is right about that tactic being risky. The wingers will behave like strikers both in the AMRL position and the FRL position. In fact, AMRL players are natural in FRL as well even though it doesn't look like that in the Positions screen. I don't think it is possible to achieve good defending using TC role and duties only in this formation; the defense will be too passive and aggression and decisiveness is essential. The moment one of your defenders or midfielders close down a player and doesn't manage to either win possession right then and there, or to stress him to do a defensive pass, you basically have one half of a football field of space littered with randomly placed players who can do little to prevent the opponent to do whatever they want. The four guys up front certainly score the goals, though!

It helps moving the MC's to DMC position because they are more correctly positioned both when attacking and defending then. The four guys up front manage fine on their own. The problem when using pure TC is that you can't set defenders and defensive midfielders to be attacking (aggressive) enough so you end up with a six-man defense that hesitates and withdraws from challenges when that is the worst thing they could possibly do. Maybe setting the entire team to "Overload" and then make the four forwards as defensive as possible would do the trick...

No wonder your world class defenders play like kids :p

but my MCs are on defensive midfield duty. I'm using khedira and javi garcia on MC position but with defensive midfield defensive option. i don't put them in DM position because that usually makes center too crowded because de DR/DL will also be helping if AI is going through the middle. my problem with defending is always having 1 DC missing a tackle and a DR/DL covering him and miss the freaking tackle too even tough the AI player isn't good at dribling

about the AML and AMR yeah they do behave a lot like strikers.

btw i'm using zone marking, could that be the problem? i'm using opposition instructions also for the most dangerous players, usually fast strikers.

currently playing a champs match and moved 1 MC to DM position and now it's worst, the DM completely ignores AMC players running their direcction and DC has to try cover up his mistakes and obviously leaves strikers alone. 2 goals conceeded because DM wouldn't mark AMC. meanwhile all opposition players were able to tackle Ronaldo and Neymar from behind. DR/DL NEVER tried to tackle the AMC even though they had no yeallow card and were running with the AMC until he gets 3 meters from the GK...

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It's definitely not tactics IMO as before the last patch my right sided striker was scoring regularly and whilst the left struggled at times I am sure that's down to right footed players on the left not being very good!!

Same tactics new patch and my top scorer is Carlton Cole with 6 goals by January. I brought in Adebayor at the start of the season and he has scored a pathetic 2. He is getting chances but he usually hits them with the power of a wet flannel and they pee roller wide, this by an apparently decent striker.

Plus just been on a great run and only a few games ago played Arsenal off the park and yet I have just lost 2-0 to botrtom of the table Blackpool with yep you have guessed it them scoring their only two chances of the game. I batter them and yet my usually reliable left back short changes a pass back and it's the best pass Blackpool's striker gets all game.

You will be told that it's overconfidence (rather than wins breeding confidence) and your players got sloppy but that's not football management that's luck, especially when both start of game and half time team talks get a positive green response. So you literally are left with just having to accept that on this occasion you will just not win no matter what you do.

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the thing is, a top quality player when through on goal has more chance to score then someone who is at a lower team. this isn't adressed. i'm getting sick of conceding 2 goals to the boltons, west broms and birminghams because they score from 2 passages of play, usualy from kick offs.

the odd time maybe but so far this season, it has happened in a good 11 games.

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the thing is, a top quality player when through on goal has more chance to score then someone who is at a lower team. this isn't adressed. i'm getting sick of conceding 2 goals to the boltons, west broms and birminghams because they score from 2 passages of play, usualy from kick offs.

the odd time maybe but so far this season, it has happened in a good 11 games.

and dont forget to add the super AI crossing that never goes near keeper meanwhile our AML/AMR cross straight into the keeper when they had lots of space

or the AI tackles from behind inside penalty area that 99% of the time are sucesseful meanwhile our defenders won't tackle or it will be a penalty

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All I can suggest to those not happy with FM12 is try FM11, I am still playing it because I think its a very good game, well balanced, fun, rewarding. Its not as easy to improve a game as people think. You can change something to please one group of gamers (hardcores) and upset another (newbies).

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If you have so many injuries you can't field a full bench, then your squad management is suspect. Seems to me that you don't have enough players. Furthermore, if you only have three forwards in the squad, you will end up over playing them, which results in a higher likelihood of them being injured.

While I'd agree that there is slightly too high an occurrence of players getting injured in match, in general it is very possible to manage your squad so injuries rarely become a major issue.

No, no, I have 22 outfield players registered and then 3 or so youngsters who don't have to be registered. (I'm in Spain so it's a max squad size of 23 outfielders)

And I have 4 strikers currently in my first team, previously 5 but one talented young striker was sent out on loan before the whole injury saga begun as he wanted first team football and anyway, my fourth striker has been injured for a while now, he had a 3-4 month injury which he suffered in February iirc.

And anyway sure Teffera has played a lot but he has a high natural fitness attribute and is not injury prone, he was last injured for a small time of 3 weeks around 3 seasons back and played 37 of 38 games last year only missing one through suspension. He's one of the most injury free players ever for me.

Where this random long term injury pops up from FM only knows! There's too many players being injured in game and you already admit this so fair enough I say.

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And fwiw Robin has just gone off injured in a game. I have no strikers. Turned out to be only a concussion but still so many going off injured.

There's an issue there.

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but my MCs are on defensive midfield duty. I'm using khedira and javi garcia on MC position but with defensive midfield defensive option. i don't put them in DM position because that usually makes center too crowded because de DR/DL will also be helping if AI is going through the middle. my problem with defending is always having 1 DC missing a tackle and a DR/DL covering him and miss the freaking tackle too even tough the AI player isn't good at dribling

about the AML and AMR yeah they do behave a lot like strikers.

btw i'm using zone marking, could that be the problem? i'm using opposition instructions also for the most dangerous players, usually fast strikers.

currently playing a champs match and moved 1 MC to DM position and now it's worst, the DM completely ignores AMC players running their direcction and DC has to try cover up his mistakes and obviously leaves strikers alone. 2 goals conceeded because DM wouldn't mark AMC. meanwhile all opposition players were able to tackle Ronaldo and Neymar from behind. DR/DL NEVER tried to tackle the AMC even though they had no yeallow card and were running with the AMC until he gets 3 meters from the GK...

Players running after (or by the side of) opposition players just ballwatching is a result of too defensive mentalities, and/or possibly poor form and lacking confidence. Lack of tactical familiarity could also have the same result. If you want them to make the tackle you will have to increase your defenders' mentalities to highish Normal or even Attacking.

I use Tight Man Marking in my tactic (the defenders, the rest are zonal). I like that they are as close as possible to their designated opponent, so that when they get the ball they have no time to do anything with it. This causes all six men in the back to run out of position continuously, including he central defenders - but when they do the DMC runs in and covers him so it is mostly fine. How could it possibly be too crowded in the centre when they play narrowly? That is exactly what you want! As many men as possible where it counts the most...

The MC's in a 424 (4222) tactic are virtually useless as they don't cover space in front of the defense and they don't join the attack and help out there either. Because of the large gaps between the defending and attacking four, the two MC's will constantly be lost in the middle unable to influence anything of substance. On defensive duties they will track back well but be too passive, and on attacking duties they will be aggressive but not track back. On balanced duties they will neither cover space nor help out with the attacks. This was why I moved them both back to DMC position, where they at least helps the defense very well, and they link the full backs and the wingers really nicely as well as regaining possession after clearances. The problem is that the TC settings with the roles and duties can't replicate what I did, and so they can't replicate that tactic. It won't work. As I said in the previous post I don't think it is possible to create a defensively sound 424 tactic using the duties and roles in the TC. What you experience is therefore completely natural considering the nature of the formation and the limitations of the TC.

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Most of the comments above pretty much sum a big part of my own grudges against the game.

Injuries are a bit too close together to be looked upon as an unfortunate occurense. And the fact that a stubbed finger is enough a reason to swap a player mid-match and then lose him for a couple weeks doesn't help either.

And then we have morale and dedication. I can understand that professional players are better for that,but how is it possible that every single lowlie team that has been on a run of 15+ loses,with players of abysmal morale and surely not professional players just happens to find their lust for football against the player's team out of nowhere? Every single one of them. And it's almost always someone "scoring their first goal of the season" or even "of their career" as well.

Deathspawn has given a few really accurate things that seem biased against the player,key word being "seem" here. Some of them might be,some of them not.

It doesn't have to be that the game is programmed to act like that,just that it happened to turn out like that in practice.

Like it's been said before,the AI seems to do everything close to spotless. Their marking,their crossing,everything seems perfect,whereas PC players seem to forget about what football is about.

And the "change your tactics" is a bit tiresome. It makes most of us feel like we're being mistaken for players that took a random tactic,put some players there and expected to win. Trust me,I've tried a lot of things,most of them in vain though.

The match preparation system doesn't help either. The game practically punishes us for trying new things,whereas the AI seems to be able to change tactics and perform well with them with ease.

This is a question that I always had since the introduction of this feature in FM11, do the AI teams have any penalties from changing tactics? Does the match preparation system affect them at all? If not,then this is clearly a big part of what's causing all these bizzare situations that seem to be biased towards the user.

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This is a question that I always had since the introduction of this feature in FM11, do the AI teams have any penalties from changing tactics? Does the match preparation system affect them at all? If not,then this is clearly a big part of what's causing all these bizzare situations that seem to be biased towards the user.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there....never thought of that.

I must add though, not all the game is biased, sometimes I score 'jammy' goals, although it does occur in games were I've made my own luck (had lots of other chances that missed, hit the post etc). Sometimes it is like the ME is tormenting you, and I wouldn't put it past a programmer sticking these little annoyances in for their own amusement [only joking of course].

What else would we do if we couldn't have a good old moan; you wanna go and have at look at some RL LFC forums, boy does the team and manager get it when they lose.

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I think you've hit the nail on the head there....never thought of that.

I must add though, not all the game is biased, sometimes I score 'jammy' goals, although it does occur in games were I've made my own luck (had lots of other chances that missed, hit the post etc). Sometimes it is like the ME is tormenting you, and I wouldn't put it past a programmer sticking these little annoyances in for their own amusement [only joking of course].

What else would we do if we couldn't have a good old moan; you wanna go and have at look at some RL LFC forums, boy does the team and manager get it when they lose.

Yes the AI also have match prep. ( you can see it if you use FMRTE) so they would suffer similar penalities. Think it was pointed out on another thread that they didnt seem to be ulitising it as well as human players.

Though I dislike match prep entirely to be honest.

It may seem like there is bias, but the FACT is that is no bias in the ME, or in how the AI reacts you on the pitch, or your injuries in relation to AI injuries.

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High CF - Low CF - Balanced CF for my Att/Creative players = The only visual difference was the amount of chances I create; the lower the CF, the fewer the chances, but quality chances are still missed.

High Tempo - Low Tempo - Balanced Tempo = A higher tempo seems to move the ball around swifter, a lower tempo seems to create fewer chances, but quality chances are still missed.

High Att Mentalities - Low Att Mentalities - Balanced Att Mentalities = Again the lower the Att Mentalities, the fewer chances I create, but quality chances are still missed.

Rare Time Wasting - High Time Wasting - Balanced Time Wasting = Fewer chances created with high time wasting, but quality chances are still missed.

I really crave a simplified solution to this problem. Having exhausted all possibilities, I find scoring the first goal absolutely vital, then I tend to experiment on improving my shots to goals ratio, with little consistency (I seem to score more half chances). Luckily I seem to have understood a decent defensive structure, but I'm afraid it's making the game very dull, and the lack of reward for some great attacking endeavour is highly frustrating.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Best advice I can give is the same as the advice I've already given. Stop fiddling around with individual sliders in the mistaken belief that they'll make a significant difference, sort your mentality structure out, and think about how the formation you are employing should create goals. As soon as you start thinking slider numbers, you are going into a world of pain. Think about how the formation you wish to employ should play. For example, a 4-2-4 needs to be direct and high tempo enough to feed its front players when they are in space whereas a 4-2-3-1 Deep should keep possession deep on the pitch and attack on the counter. That is the most basic thing to thing about.

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btw i'm using zone marking, could that be the problem? i'm using opposition instructions also for the most dangerous players, usually fast strikers.

currently playing a champs match and moved 1 MC to DM position and now it's worst, the DM completely ignores AMC players running their direcction and DC has to try cover up his mistakes and obviously leaves strikers alone. 2 goals conceeded because DM wouldn't mark AMC. meanwhile all opposition players were able to tackle Ronaldo and Neymar from behind. DR/DL NEVER tried to tackle the AMC even though they had no yeallow card and were running with the AMC until he gets 3 meters from the GK...

For Pete's sake! How on earth is a 4-1-1-4 formation going to work? Stop looking for gamey solutions and you might begin to find the answer.

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And anyway sure Teffera has played a lot but he has a high natural fitness attribute and is not injury prone, he was last injured for a small time of 3 weeks around 3 seasons back and played 37 of 38 games last year only missing one through suspension. He's one of the most injury free players ever for me.

Where this random long term injury pops up from FM only knows! There's too many players being injured in game and you already admit this so fair enough I say.

That you play a striker in 37 out of 38 games should be telling you something. Your players are getting injured because you are overplaying them / not rotating enough. If you are overtraining or playing players not match fit as well, then that will also add to your problems.

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Most of the comments above pretty much sum a big part of my own grudges against the game.

Injuries are a bit too close together to be looked upon as an unfortunate occurense. And the fact that a stubbed finger is enough a reason to swap a player mid-match and then lose him for a couple weeks doesn't help either.

And then we have morale and dedication. I can understand that professional players are better for that,but how is it possible that every single lowlie team that has been on a run of 15+ loses,with players of abysmal morale and surely not professional players just happens to find their lust for football against the player's team out of nowhere? Every single one of them. And it's almost always someone "scoring their first goal of the season" or even "of their career" as well.

Deathspawn has given a few really accurate things that seem biased against the player,key word being "seem" here. Some of them might be,some of them not.

It doesn't have to be that the game is programmed to act like that,just that it happened to turn out like that in practice.

Like it's been said before,the AI seems to do everything close to spotless. Their marking,their crossing,everything seems perfect,whereas PC players seem to forget about what football is about.

And the "change your tactics" is a bit tiresome. It makes most of us feel like we're being mistaken for players that took a random tactic,put some players there and expected to win. Trust me,I've tried a lot of things,most of them in vain though.

The match preparation system doesn't help either. The game practically punishes us for trying new things,whereas the AI seems to be able to change tactics and perform well with them with ease.

This is a question that I always had since the introduction of this feature in FM11, do the AI teams have any penalties from changing tactics? Does the match preparation system affect them at all? If not,then this is clearly a big part of what's causing all these bizzare situations that seem to be biased towards the user.

AI mechanisms are exactly the same as user ones. The user has many advantages, being able to be far more creative in the use of shouts, more flexible in transfers, or be able to develop a unique playing style. However, users can also break things by moving beyond the mechanical limits that the AI works within. If the user does that, then weird events are likely to happen.

As the saying goes, "garbage in, garbage out!"

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That you play a striker in 37 out of 38 games should be telling you something. Your players are getting injured because you are overplaying them / not rotating enough. If you are overtraining or playing players not match fit as well, then that will also add to your problems.
Have another read of what he said, the 37 game striker is the exception rather than the norm & he's already qualified why he has played all but 1 league (high natural fitness).

You're point about ensuring the fringe players are relatively fit is valid but not being 'match fit' does not excessively increase the risk of injury as it generally relates to mental fitness such as anticipation & timing, I will confidently say that the ME is not sophisticated enough to replicate the sort of injuries that carry an increased risk due to a lack of match practice.

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Have another read of what he said, the 37 game striker is the exception rather than the norm & he's already qualified why he has played all but 1 league (high natural fitness).

You're point about ensuring the fringe players are relatively fit is valid but not being 'match fit' does not excessively increase the risk of injury as it generally relates to mental fitness such as anticipation & timing, I will confidently say that the ME is not sophisticated enough to replicate the sort of injuries that carry an increased risk due to a lack of match practice.

There's a reason why he suffers major injury streaks and I don't. From everything he's said, lack of rotation seems to be the most likely issue, although it might be further generated through a tactical style that requires players to work very hard and stretch for balls/tackles and/or a training regime that overworks them.

I'd agree that the nature of the actual injury is not sophisticated enough, but not that there are no mechanisms to reduce the likelihood of in-game injuries.

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Thankfully like you I do not tend to suffer from frequent large scale injury problems, I'll get the occasional knock or strain/pull & at most I might have 4 or 5 players unavailable at any one time which is more than manageable. Maybe I'll try to do the opposite of what I usually do at some point in the future to see if there really is a correlation.

I might add that I do not think the injury/fitness model is anywhere near accurate enough & if anything there are not enough fitness problems, at this time of year I'd imagine that most squad's have a large number of players nursing minor injuries or niggles yet this is not replicated by FM & as for having most of your squad at 100% fitness unless officially injured that is & always has been a nonsense.

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Thankfully like you I do not tend to suffer from frequent large scale injury problems, I'll get the occasional knock or strain/pull & at most I might have 4 or 5 players unavailable at any one time which is more than manageable. Maybe I'll try to do the opposite of what I usually do at some point in the future to see if there really is a correlation.

I might add that I do not think the injury/fitness model is anywhere near accurate enough & if anything there are not enough fitness problems, at this time of year I'd imagine that most squad's have a large number of players nursing minor injuries or niggles yet this is not replicated by FM & as for having most of your squad at 100% fitness unless officially injured that is & always has been a nonsense.

I believe that the overall numbers are lower than they should be and that in-match versus training injuries are incorrectly balanced, with too many of the former and too few of the latter. Saying that, the balance has got better in recent years, a trend I'd expect to continue. Would also agree that long term niggles should be included in the game.

I still don't think the condition element of the ME works well enough, with certain positions being over-penalised whereas others barely get a hit. It seems to be related to the speed at which forwards, wingers and attacking midfielders run, especially with the ball, which causes a major hit to condition. Perhaps users struggling with injuries rely too much on high speed dribbles. That would be consistent between the inability to score (far less likely to score after a player has touched a ball twice prior to shooting) and high injury counts (penalisation for RWB). If the user has lots of RFD/FWRs for front players as well, then the problem will be further accentuated.

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Just for kicks you can also add the occasional injury not tallying up with what happened on the pitch, I've had a player break a rib after trapping a ball & passing it, the nearest other person to him was 10 yards away.

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Just for kicks you can also add the occasional injury not tallying up with what happened on the pitch, I've had a player break a rib after trapping a ball & passing it, the nearest other person to him was 10 yards away.

I especially enjoy players playing on with what turns out to be a pulled hamstring.

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Just for kicks you can also add the occasional injury not tallying up with what happened on the pitch, I've had a player break a rib after trapping a ball & passing it, the nearest other person to him was 10 yards away.

That's a personal favourite of mine...

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