TAV2

Game feels fixed thread!

106 posts in this topic

This is not the usual I had 30 shots a and got beat 1-0 thread, no i hope to think i have more class than that :D

What iv noticed since playing FM12 is that the game seems to elect a rival who is best placed to challenge you for the title and they always do. Has anyone else witnessed some freaky win streaks from the teams behind you in the league? Palermo in my game (5th season) went on a 13 game winning run to cut my lead drastically. They actually lost the last game but this still gave them 15 wins from 17 to come 2nd 3 points behind me. This is not a one off.

2 seasons as Barca manager before this i won the league twice. This was Real's results 28-5-5, then 30-4-4 (Win-Draw-Lose). I had to play out of my skin to win those two titles. Now I have left there season went as follows 22-15-1. They barely even challenged the wonder team i built at Barca when i was gone! Nothing changed except there was no human manager in the league.

Only one of the seasons so far have i blown the other teams away. This was in fact with Liverpool 2nd season where i got 102 points and was 14 clear by the end. The only difference here was my team wasnt favourites for the title or anywhere near it. I have a theory that the game realises that when you are favourite you will probably win the title so to keep you interested in the game it "enhances" another teams ability.

I know it sounds crazy (alcohol also doesnt help) but i believe it to be true. Got any other believers out there? :D

Please read thread before posting. There has been a lot of help from other members to explain what is happening here and why its doing it. I wholeheartedly no longer believe its down to a deliberate mechanism placed in the game.

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It is probably just paranoia but yes I've had that feeling also. One season in EPL Chelsea didn't lose a match after October and I finished second with 92 points IIRC. The season I just finished had FOUR teams on over eighty points and I won the league with 101pts but Man City finished 2nd with 92 pts. Everyone from thirteenth down had 36 points or less. This is actually one of my biggest gripes about the game. In the EPL at least, the bottom teams score too few points and the top too many.

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This was actually my 6th season another trend i have noticed -

Palermo got enough points this year to clearly win the league in any other of the 5 years. Real (when i was at Barca for 2 seasons) got more points in those seasons than they got in the other 4 without me. If a human controlled favourite team over exceeds, then so will an AI team to make it a "challenge".

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Yeah the premier league is so messed up in the game. Most leagues only have a few great teams but by season 3 you can have 7 genuine title challengers in the league. Makes it crazy!

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With Shrewsbury i spend several seasons finishing second because i couldn't stop Manchester City, when they finally collapse and have a horrible campaign, Everton turns into this unstoppable machine that just wouldn't lose, i managed to win the title though.

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To me FM2012 is not a "game by game" based simulation. It's more like a script based. Every thing you do in the game has more or less impact on performance on pitch.

When you are into some certain scene, like "your team slump", you have very little thing to turn it around immediately. The script is so decisive, so your 11 world class players on pitch will act like idiot all 90 mins. You concede long shoot to player who doesn't have required attribute to do so. You will see opposite player who has 5 on jump and header outplay your commanding center back to score a header. I'm not saying it didn't not happen in RL, but it happen more often in FM if you get your team in slump. All this have little thing to do with attribute of your player, tactics. You have to use the "new feature" (team talk, team meeting, individual talk, match preparation, etc...) SI provided to get out of it.

If you are the favorite to win tittle, the script will generate a opposite to make sure your game challenging. In my Bayern game. It's Koeln. They perform like Barc in my game and I have no idea why I can not beat them as Bayern.

Some feel FM is more like a job IRL, not a game they can enjoy after a hard working day. I myself share, more or less, the same feeling and reduced my time on playing FM.

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Exactly this. Real Madrid's lowest ever point total was 87. That's in 10 seasons of 2nd place. They've had over 94 4 times.

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I've went back to FM 2011 because this version winds me up too much- with this new patch there has been a massive increase in injuries and in general its not doing my blood pressure any good.

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dominate a team from start to finish, go 4-0 up they get a goal from 2 passes directly from a kickoff.

poorer opposition have a better strike rate then you. because thier keeper magically holds the ball when they were on the other side of the goal.

had a player score 2 goals from 2 shots on target, then every other one after that missed by miles.

o now the ball hits keeper but bounces to thier player..

i hate all these away matches in cups against weaker teams when i want to rest players.

players morale is abysmill after playing 90 minutes and being on the winning team? wtf

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The real question is not whether there's a script (there's not) but the relative amount of pressure that falls upon the 1st place team and the 2nd place team. From my own experiences as both the challenging club and the frontrunner club, it does seem that the frontrunner is more likely to choke after fending off an extended title challenge while it does seem a bit easier to maintain very high morale as the 2nd place team.

This doesn't mean the game is fixed. Everything is a matter of probabilities (and I've had seasons where I left all competitors in the dust), but it is possible that there is a hidden morale advantage to being the 2nd place challenger. Though based on my experience, it favors human players as much as the AI.

To me FM2012 is not a "game by game" based simulation. It's more like a script based.

I wouldn't describe it as "script based." Rather, everything is contextual. Being the first placed team and put on the defensive (in terms of the title race) does weigh upon your more nervous players' minds. Being the team best poised to challenge for the title does, presumably, motivate determined players. These factors can create a fairly predictable rhythm and narrative for the "average" season, but at no point does the game say "At match X, team Y collapses." There's a bit more luck to it than that.

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It does seem like there's always some team the game has picked out to be neck-and-neck with you. In my game as Everton, we're doing quite well in third, but for some reason Stoke City has been right there with us (in fourth) all season. Pretty unrealistic that Stoke would finish in 4th in the PL this year.

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game isn't doing that to me.

it is unrealist stoke would finish 4th, but in one of mine me and city went both UNBEATEN and i won the league by 4 points on the last day, in 3rd were wolves :/

barcalonas rep is still stupidly high, i won every cup, including european, they got knocked out in 1st KO, they take 36 million for messi, he wouldn't sign :/ my rep should be plenty good enough

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game isn't doing that to me.

it is unrealist stoke would finish 4th, but in one of mine me and city went both UNBEATEN and i won the league by 4 points on the last day, in 3rd were wolves :/

barcalonas rep is still stupidly high, i won every cup, including european, they got knocked out in 1st KO, they take 36 million for messi, he wouldn't sign :/ my rep should be plenty good enough

Or messi just doesn't want to leave the club that he loves so very very much.

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depends, i shall see in january. they do not look like a strong force in europe, and the rep differance is only 200 or something

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On my game Tranmere just won the last 7 games of the season in a row to knock me off the 2nd auto promotion spot, fixed i dunno, but certainly bloody annoying!

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depends, i shall see in january. they do not look like a strong force in europe, and the rep differance is only 200 or something

Sorry, stupid question but how do you get the actual figures on reputation. I currently have 4.5 stars along with Barca and Utd but i thought that the star thing was the only indicator!?!

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I noticed before - no matter how well I do that there's always a team right behind me in the league.

I could have 105 points and there will be a team right behind me.

Next season I might have 92 points and there is a team right around me too.

I could go the whole season without losing and there will be a team that has drawn just one game.

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I noticed before - no matter how well I do that there's always a team right behind me in the league.

I could have 105 points and there will be a team right behind me.

Next season I might have 92 points and there is a team right around me too.

I could go the whole season without losing and there will be a team that has drawn just one game.

I wish that was the case in my game, there's usually a gap of around 20-30 points between me and 2nd :(

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This is not the usual I had 30 shots a and got beat 1-0 thread, no i hope to think i have more class than that :D

What iv noticed since playing FM12 is that the game seems to elect a rival who is best placed to challenge you for the title and they always do. Has anyone else witnessed some freaky win streaks from the teams behind you in the league? Palermo in my game (5th season) went on a 13 game winning run to cut my lead drastically. They actually lost the last game but this still gave them 15 wins from 17 to come 2nd 3 points behind me. This is not a one off.

So..... they didn't beat you?

2 seasons as Barca manager before this i won the league twice. This was Real's results 28-5-5, then 30-4-4 (Win-Draw-Lose). I had to play out of my skin to win those two titles. Now I have left there season went as follows 22-15-1. They barely even challenged the wonder team i built at Barca when i was gone! Nothing changed except there was no human manager in the league.

So.... they didn't beat you?

Only one of the seasons so far have i blown the other teams away. This was in fact with Liverpool 2nd season where i got 102 points and was 14 clear by the end. The only difference here was my team wasnt favourites for the title or anywhere near it. I have a theory that the game realises that when you are favourite you will probably win the title so to keep you interested in the game it "enhances" another teams ability.

So..... some poor AI manager is sitting there crying in his soup as some super human manager has led the poor Liverpool side to a win :)

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I wish that was the case in my game, there's usually a gap of around 20-30 points between me and 2nd :(

I get that sometimes. But not often. What league are you playing?

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I get that sometimes. But not often. What league are you playing?

I'm in Northern Ireland, which probably explains it. The other clubs really struggle to keep up with me.

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I've never played the NI league, so I can't really compare it to anything :)

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The AI clubs are pretty useless and lack ambition, unlike in the major leagues where the AI clubs at least make an attempt to keep up with the biggest club in the league.

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Sorry, stupid question but how do you get the actual figures on reputation. I currently have 4.5 stars along with Barca and Utd but i thought that the star thing was the only indicator!?!

It is not a stupid question at all, some players choose to look at the reputation using an additional program. I think it sort of ruins the game a bit as you can do it to see players potential as well. If real life managers could do this then it would be included in the game, but it is not, so I don't use it.

But yeh to clarify you get an external program that will give a number representation of reputation for a club. And players will give "PA" and "CA" as people refer to them here on the forums.

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Must confess I think tactics have about a ten game life span in FM12. Gawd knows how many times I have started again on creating one when your great run comes crashing to an end and your title winning form becomes relegation form in two weeks!! However I had a reversal in fortunes for a change with my Hammers fighting for promotion. I had lost my way but then went on a great run shooting up from 7th to 3rd in the table approaching the last two games. Going in to the last two I needed to win both and Bristol City needed to lose both their games for me to gain automatic promotion. The problem was they had a home game v Hull who hadn't won in 7. Hull promptly beat them 3-0 and then they lost their last away at Ipswich whereas I won my last two so getting that second slot. Bristol also got knocked out of the Play Offs. I could only put it down to them bottling it. But nice that it goes the other way sometimes!!

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lam- Yeah i won the league every time but what im getting at is that I believe the Game made sure that at least one rival to the title kept with me all the way to the end. It didnt feel as if every AI result went through a bit of program code to calculate WIN,LOSE or DRAW. More like one team got a giant big IF statement reading something like 'IF challenger then result = WIN'.

Its obivious too that the program favours the Users, thats why we get teams from non league to champions league. Its not only down to poor AI squad building and poor tactics. I still feel we have a percentage edge over the AI when calculating results.

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AI is parking the bus. stoke and orwich play a back 4 with 2 cover

just faced a liverpool side with only 3 players up front, rest in a triangle shape in thier half O.O

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1st year in Dutch League Ajax win with 66 points.

2nd year I win with FC Zwolle and 72 points. Ajax and Alkmaar both get 71.

3rd year Ajax win with 78. I come second with 73.

4th year I win with 77. Feyenoord come second on goal difference.

5th year I win with 96 points. Feyenoord get 90 and only lose their two games against me, but Roda JC also get 87 points. I lose only two games all year and I still spend most of the season in third place...

I don't mind to be honest but it does seem a little strange that two other teams can now rattle off 30 game unbeaten runs whe they are cack in Europe and I win the ECL.

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I have came back to this thread as I feel iv got pretty good data that shows the AI does give your rivals a 'Boost' when you are all conquering.

I have completed 8 seasons now in the game and managed teams in 3 different nations. Whilst i was manager in each league the points totals were at their highest and AI teams always came close to me. This is what i found.

3 years at Liverpool

Man U & Chelsea get 87 points 1st season - Thats enough to win the league on 5 occassions and both teams greatest ever total points over the 8yrs.

2 years at Barcelona

Real in 5th season get 94 points - Thats enough to win the league on 6 occassions and by far their best ever points total over the 8yrs.

3 years at Inter

Palermo 8th season get 84 points - Thats enough to win the league on 5 occassions and their best ever points total over the 8yrs.

Each time I left the countries the points totals went down. The teams that had their best ever points totals never got close to them again even though they had same managers and players mostly. Has anyone else noticed this happening?

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Hmm, this always seems to work the other way for me. AI team appears to be running away with the league, my team looks out of the running. AI team falters at the run-in, whilst my team hits form and pips them to the post.

Love this game.

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What about when you are leading the race from the start? Do you just run away with it by 20 points or something? You still say your pipping them to the post so im guessing the points totals are close as i am saying.

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The game isn't fixed.

Explain the points totals then? Why do the challengers have their best seasons when im in the league getting bigger ones?

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Explain the points totals then? Why do the challengers have their best seasons when im in the league getting bigger ones?

Because they have improved and therefore performed better? They are allowed to you know, just like in real life.

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Because they have improved and therefore performed better? They are allowed to you know, just like in real life.

Why do they improve when I am in their league and suddenly go back to normal when i have left? 3 different leagues over 8 years mate! Each time 2nd place teams are performing better than previous (and future) champions.

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Why do they improve when I am in their league and suddenly go back to normal when i have left? 3 different leagues over 8 years mate! Each time 2nd place teams are performing better than previous (and future) champions.

Firstly, I am not your mate.

Secondly, you are simply looking for things that aren't there.

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I think there is a morale boost involved, for the chasing team, but more than that, I don't think so. I have had my share of close title run-ins thats for sure, incl. ending tied for point with two other clubs and having the league taken from me on the basis of Head to Head (whereas I would have won, if it was decided on goal difference).

I got 94 points one year, Inter got 97! I try not to follow scores during my teams games because even though a rival losing is as advantageous to me as my side winning its completely out of my hands. I check when the game is over :)

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Haha mate your not very good at this are you? I have proven they are there! I have data that confirms the facts and trends that I am talking about. Il go get more examples to show you when i come round for our sleepover :D

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Haha mate your not very good at this are you? I have proven they are there! I have data that confirms the facts and trends that I am talking about. Il go get more examples to show you when i come round for our sleepover :D

You haven't proved anything with a few seasons in one save.

Do it a few more times, collect the data, and then give the results. Until then, get back in your box, and stop embarrassing yourself with this ridiculous train of thought.

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The only thing ridiculous in this threat is your horrible sense of humour and completely out of place aggressive attitude. Im voicing my opinion with facts to go along with it, thats alot more than some folk on these forums do. Please leave my thread if you cant behave!

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The only thing ridiculous in this threat is your horrible sense of humour and completely out of place aggressive attitude. Im voicing my opinion with facts to go along with it, thats alot more than some folk on these forums do. Please leave my thread if you cant behave!

Your data is not conclusive.

I am not been aggresive in the slightest.

You are being a bit precious.

Like I said, go do the same again. And again. And again. Then your data will be a bit meaningful and the results more reliable.

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Well I've won the league seven seasons in a row, and it was only close once, so I have data that proves you wrong.

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Well I've won the league seven seasons in a row, and it was only close once, so I have data that proves you wrong.

Ssshhhhhh! If you don't agree with him and his "data" he will banish you from the thread!

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I don't care, its a ludicrous thread anyway. 8 seasons is nothing. He already admitted he was drunk when he came up with his 'theory' in the OP, why would anybody believe this rubbish?

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I don't care, its a ludicrous thread anyway. 8 seasons is nothing. He already admitted he was drunk when he came up with his 'theory' in the OP, why would anybody believe this rubbish?

Exactly what I was saying.

Fair enough if the data is compiled on various saves over a number of seasons. But eight seasons in one save is nothing, and thus can't prove such a theory.

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I have a theory that the game realises that when you are favourite you will probably win the title so to keep you interested in the game it "enhances" another teams ability.

I know it sounds crazy (alcohol also doesnt help) but i believe it to be true. Got any other believers out there? :D

Utter tosh tbh, the game has no way to do that.

The only awareness the game has of you is that other teams take your reputation and form into account when deciding how to play against you.

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Im loving this so will continue taking my career through Europes top clubs giving their rivals the best seasons they will ever have! Its a shame they wont win the title though, im awesome.

Yeah i had a few when i started this thread but the same results appeared on my screen the next morning.

afced7 - what team were you managing and what season did you start your winning run? I am treating this seriously and going to try and get more data as im sure there is a link with some code here.

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Man Utd- started in the first season, the points totals of the top three have been:

2011-12 1st. Man Utd 101, 2nd. Arsenal 83, 3rd. Liverpool 81

2012-13 1st. Man Utd 95, 2nd. Man City 86, 3rd. Arsenal 80

2013-14 1st. Man Utd 102, 2nd. Spurs 83, 3rd. Arsenal 80

2014-15 1st. Man Utd 98, 2nd. Man City 81, 3rd. Liverpool 79

2015-16 1st. Man Utd 102, 2nd. Man City 83, 3rd. Spurs 73

2016-17 1st. Man Utd 97, 2nd. Man City 93, 3rd. Chelsea 80 (The only close season)

2017-18 1st. Man Utd 96, 2nd. Man City 83, 3rd. Chelsea 80

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Compare it to real life and how many times do you see one team run away with the EPL? Very rarely, it's usually at least a two-horse race.

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This happens in almost every season for me. But does happen both ways. Initially I take over a relatively weak team, which in the first season, barely manages to stay in the league withotu getting relegated. Second season, I play absolutely pathetically initially and languish in 16th spot, but suddenly win 12 out of 14 or something , while every team above me till 4rth or 5th place starts droppign points big time, and I end up between 4rth and 6th. Third season (sometimes 4rth), I take an insane lead initially against all odds and am 14 points foff the top, adn then suddenly start losing regularly, while atleast 1 team below me WINS EVERY GAME, and finally wins the head to head (which is among the last 5 games of the season), and take the championship , while I come 3rd or something. Next season, I win title. Somehow this happens in every game, with nearly every team I play :) Fixed? I dunno. But the game definitely tries to increase your odds of progress when you are lower down the table, while majorly increasing the winning probability of atleast one rival when you are leading the table.

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