Jiggaloos Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Does 3 cb work in fm 11- fm12. been trying to get it to work in Fm11 playing in epl , it seems i do have more success playing that system in la liga n serie a. looking for a thread or some sorta of input from anybody. Looking for something like this for a possession game, high defensive : St---ST AML---------------AML MC---MC--MC CB---CB---CB i made it work in Fm10 and won every trophy with it but cant seem to replicate close to my previous success. i just cant play 4-4 -2 or 4321 it bores me because everyone plays it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Beckham_7 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 ... i just cant play 4-4 -2 or 4321 it bores me because everyone plays it Don't mean to troll, but what has the popularity of a formation gotta do with your philosophy and brand of football? Most of the players use 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 and some variant of it. Check out Cleon's take on WM with a back 3 and the discussion thread is here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruyff14 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I have been using it with Newcastle and started out ok but since January I've been struggling with it. Any advice would be much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawee Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 The fact that you use AML and AMR implies that you know about the problem with back-3 formations involving the mroe common wide-midfielders or wingbacks. If you're not, basically, the problem is the wide players (be it wide-midfielders or wingbacks) will immediately drop back into fullback position to form a back-5 regardless of the situation that was unfolding. The problem, as you know, is that with your formation, the flank is left ridiculously opened. I find the only way to solve this problem is to only play with one striker, and have a dmc. This allows your central midfielders to close down opposition on the flank, while your DMC holds the middle. Do not count on aerial superiority to win crosses. I thought that would work. However, if you let wingers whipped in 10 free (ie. no pressure) crosses One is bound to be a goal. Another problem is build up play. As everyone have noticed, the vast majority of the time, the buildup starts with the fullback. Without the fullback, the buildup becomes very awkward, with CBs not always making the right decision, and just end up punting the ball forward. The only way to help fix it (and still keep your wingers) is by loading lots of central midfielders to provide forward pass option. A match engine failure that could help fix this problem would be if CBs could be told to go wide during build up play, practically acting as fullbacks. That is, however, not yet possible, which is a darn shame. Lastly, liberos doesn't work as well in the current match engine either. It's not possible to have Ze Kaiser role in FM. I can't even make a CB push forward and act as a deep-lying playmaker. All these factors, I think, eventually make 4-man defence a more attacking formation than 3-man defense simply because during buildup and attack, the two fullbacks properly use width and push forward, while the 3-man defense will always stay central and quite far back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falahk Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 The fact that you use AML and AMR implies that you know about the problem with back-3 formations involving the mroe common wide-midfielders or wingbacks. If you're not, basically, the problem is the wide players (be it wide-midfielders or wingbacks) will immediately drop back into fullback position to form a back-5 regardless of the situation that was unfolding. I have a bit of an instict telling me that they might fixed this problem in the most recent patch dispite it not being mentioned in the change log, having noticed the wing backs of shalke and wide midfielders of barcelona (pep changed to a flat 3-4-3 mid game) playing in the correct strata, instead of acting like defensive fullbacks like they would have done on early patches for the current game, fm10 and fm11so im currently trying to get a flat 3-5-2 to work to test this instinct, if I'm right then this is a big big change that opens up a lot of opertunities Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactikzz Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I've been developing a tactic with a wide back three, but of course you do leave yourself open unless careful to place a number of bodies in defensive areas to help out. I'd also be scared to play with a wide back three and extremely wide width, simply because of the gaps that are created between the lines. Would be a creative players dream to slot through balls through your defensive lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathxxx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I have a bit of an instict telling me that they might fixed this problem in the most recent patch dispite it not being mentioned in the change log, having noticed the wing backs of shalke and wide midfielders of barcelona (pep changed to a flat 3-4-3 mid game) playing in the correct strata, instead of acting like defensive fullbacks like they would have done on early patches for the current game, fm10 and fm11so im currently trying to get a flat 3-5-2 to work to test this instinct, if I'm right then this is a big big change that opens up a lot of opertunities Whilst I can't say I've noticed any difference when I've faced Barcelona on my current save through all the patches, I do think there's always been a weakness in the defensive positioning of wide players, in any strata. Some of that could simply be explained by the attributes of the players, though it's still frustrating to see a quality full-back or wing-back, so easily caught in front of play, rather than positioning themselves better between an opposing player and their route to goal or a cross. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpostie36 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I am currently using a 3-6-1 formation, which is working great the only time, i change it is when i come against a team playing a 451 variant,then i go to my secondary formation which is a narrow 4321, but have not used it that often, the shouts come into there own as well,depending on the formation you have come up against. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathxxx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Overall, I would say that I think of a formation as a means to an end. I currently use three key formations, based around the same sort of player roles and instructions. The reason that I change formations is to either exploit spaces, or to cover spaces and opposing players. Whilst I'm not particularly fond of using three central defenders, mainly because I don't think in FM we can make them as dynamic as real life (in a way that Guardiola or Bielsa might), we can use them for a purpose. For example in my current save and up until Man City decided to appoint Beilsa from Athletic Club Bilbao, when I played his Bilbao team I would sometimes try to counter his three central forwards, with three central defenders, plus two wing-backs or full-backs. This had the desired affect of allowing me to cover their three strikers and the spaces when the left and right forwards pulled wide. If they pushed a full-back or wide midfielder forward, I was already set to cover the spaces and movements, whilst also free to counter-attack with more success. Here though lies the problem sometimes, trying to directly compare real situations with FM situations. Sometimes you can directly translate one to the other, but other times you can't, which is often the biggest complaint from people trying to replicate the movement and play of a team like Barcelona. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kymsheba Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 i use 3 defenders all the time and it works a dream as long as you have the magical 3 midfield positions and i normally have 2 fb and 1 dc and in front of them i have the magic 3 midfield positons and then arrange last few around them, so far am doing very very well won EPL 3 times out of 4 yrs as well as a host of other trophies, and am currently leading by 4 pts in my 5th year with 8 games to go. Love the 3 man defence as you get that extra player to use wherever your most devastating player is positioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seule Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 currently using : -------ST-----ST ----AP---BWM---AP ------DLP----ANC -FB------DC-------FB ---------GK Simply because I have the personnel for it, has worked really well, I have two pretty attacking fullbacks who are doing well pushing forward while the DC/DLP/ANC sit back. Probably switching back to a back 4 next season, but definitely keeping this as an alternative tactic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paganizer Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Short answer, no. Doesn't work properly. The limited tactical options and the restrictions in the match engine make it hard to use a back three, but as it has been discussed in many threads, it is possible to emulate it somewhat succesful with various adjustments to individual player settings. Like the back three from above poster, which I prefer aswell... has 2 FBs for width (good for building up play from back) and DMs to cover the holes in the center. Giving the DMs man marking on strikers will help it close holes in the middle to some extent. Three CB suffers from lack of width for build up which is my main concern. The matchengine simply cannot make the wide CBs hug touchline for build up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggaloos Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Currently I have made a formation of 3-3 -4 to work. It takes top quality CB s to actually make it work and also top midfielders . When in attack my midfielders will Recycle the ball back to the CB s back n forth back n forth until the midfielders spot a opening. The attacking man does help, it keeps the opposition in there own area. In defense my ml and Mr will go out wide to tackle player on flanks but if they miss the tackle or can't catch up to the player in time then I have a problem. The opposing player usally will try from the box eithier shoot from an angle or pass . . If he shoots my gk can usally save it but a pass may result in a goal, mind you this happens on a counter attack and rarely build up play. When a build play say a opposing winger runs down the flanks my midfielders or CB s just kicks it to row z and gives time to reset. Till today I think its not good enough especially when cr7 runs it down. In the end my score is usually higher by a few goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpostie36 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Like i said previously it does work, but it depends what tactic you come up against, you will always struggle against a 451, so have a secondary tactic ready. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Like i said previously it does work, but it depends what tactic you come up against, you will always struggle against a 451, so have a secondary tactic ready. Not true at all, it works really well against the 451. In fact depending on how you've set up the back 3 it will be the most affective formation against the 451. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpostie36 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 It will hold it's own defensively yes, but as a attacking unit will not be as effective, they out run you out wide and matched player for player inside, so in my opinion it lacks the offensive approach against a 451 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 It will hold it's own defensively yes, but as a attacking unit will not be as effective, they out run you out wide and matched player for player inside, so in my opinion it lacks the offensive approach against a 451 ? Again not true, but guess you've not set up to combat that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mato Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 No way, even with wingbacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpostie36 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Now that is something i would like to see. Do you use the new tc or the old sliders system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 This is something Im going to try and introduce for my Crewe side in League 2 too try and combat 2 striker formations, Ive got the idea from MArca Bielsa, you should always have a spare man at the back. Have two tactics set up one a standard 4-1-2-2-2-1 for when Im playing against one man striker formations, which in League 2 isnt very oftern. My second tactic will be 3CB's and Wb's, and ill use this against teams with two up top. Set it up like ---CB----CB----CB-- WB------------------WB ------CM-----CM----- AMR-----------------AML -----------ST------------ Set everyone to man mark the most logical player, so wing backs marking wide midfielders, Attacking mids on full backs, AMC on DM or if nobody there he will float around plenty of roaming The two standard CB's marking the strikers leaving my BPD to control the play from the back. Just not sure on roles tbh, thinking something like: GK: Sweeper Keeper Support (I use sweeper keepers because the amount of times Ive wanted my keeper to come out and pick up a ball and he ihasnt is just stupid DCR: DC Cover DC: BPD Defend DCL: DC Cover WBR: Automatic WBR: Automatic MCR: AP Support MCL: BWM: Defend AML: AP Support AMR: IF Attack/support (not sure on that one ST: DLF Attack Team Instructions Fluid High press relatively high tempo, move the ball about quickly drill crosses man mark more roaming Thats what Im thinking anyway, although whether this will work with a team like Crewe could be very interesing. How do people think that would match up against a 4-4-2? Be interesting to see how other people have fared using something similar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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