too many bookings in this game?

[Guest]

I would say there is enough of a problem wit with the game & in particular the tactical interface.

Take 'Hard' tackling as an example, in the real world I would define this as being a more forceful in a challenge, standing your ground so to speak but in FM world it means play dirty by pulling/holding/pushing players or committing persistent tripping offences to break up play.

The ME does not always do what we would expect it to do based on the language used in the interface, rarely, sometimes & often are meaningless words based on how the ME interprets them when compared to how most football people would understand these instructions.

[scott MUFC]

it just seems to me its very easy for them to get booked, and they are not getting booked when higher up the pitch, this is tackles in the final 3rd. i have no problems with them getting booked for a foul that stops them scoring, but the same player did the same, no booking. and i wasn't refering to just me either, i was facing blackburn, yakubu got sent off for 2 fouls. i dont think the ME is putting that sort of stuff into consideration.

midfield is not getting yellows thrown at them, and they make the same sort of fouls.

half the time i dont know who is booked when it isn't shown on the game i am watching.

[wwfan]

You can get booked for a single foul that is a bit too late or is obviously stopping the player without attempting to win the ball or because you are consistently making niggling fouls. You need to know which type of foul your players tend to commit. If the former type, it is likely your team is getting stretched and forced into slightly reckless tackles. If so, your formation structure, roles, duties and mentality are likely to be the cause. If the team is merely niggly and dirty, then tackling hardness and time wasting are the more likely culprits.

[scott MUFC]

team isn't getting stretched though, thats the strange thing. might just be a bunch of fussy refs, last 4 games been very little in terms of bookings and i havn't changed anything.

oh he got 2 yellows AGAIN, making tackles he didn't need to make and being booked for "tripping" they player did that 3 times.

[wwfan]

Then they must be niggly fouls? It HAS to be one or the other. Perhaps you should look back at the yellows and see why your players are picking them up.

I suspect your FBs tend to get caught high because of your high line, their attacking mentalities and run from deep settings, and are forced into stretched tackles from behind when the opposition breaks. If you are totally dominant, they won't get booked. However, if the other team is looking to counter and reasonably effective in doing so, they'll get caught out of position and forced into taking action.

If you want to stop it, YOU need to work out why it is happening and stop thinking it is inherent to the game or down to fussy refs. It is tactical / player related, and the solution is in your hands.

[scott MUFC]

my last one was him being randomly infront of the back 4, therfore didn't need to make the tackle, how he ended up there i dunno.

nani just got booked for a nothing challange though

[wwfan]

my last one was him being randomly infront of the back 4, therfore didn't need to make the tackle, how he ended up there i dunno..

Were they backing off as players were running at them on the break?

[scott MUFC]

i dunno, i might see what they are set as, smalling is lunging in like mad when on a yellow.

just let assistand do a match, only bookings on my team are smalling and evra, and he played flat 4-4-2 so less holes.

strange one this.

[wwfan]

How do you not know if they are backing off? Look at the replay.

[BiggusD]

Fired up players are more inclined to lose discipline - something not mentioned yet in this thread.

[scott MUFC]

it isn't that team talks nothing is happening.

IT could be a game thing (i dont care if you say it isn't) looking at positional things, ferdinand was booked for pulling someone back on the wing halfway back in my half, thier player pulls someone back in the centre circle, nothing.

looking through there is very little problems, just random tackles that seem to yellow cards when in the final 3rd and not, in the central area

[wwfan]

It could be a game thing (i dont care if you say it isn't)

If you STILL think it is hard coded against the user, then there's really no help for you.

looking at positional things, ferdinand was booked for pulling someone back on the wing halfway back in my half, thier player pulls someone back in the centre circle, nothing.

Which makes perfect sense. Your team is being forced to make fouls in the final third, as they are being stretched, whereas AI teams make them higher up the pitch, as they aren't. As your foul happens in more dangerous circumstances, a yellow is far more likely.

[scott MUFC]

i dont think it is against the user, just think it isn't considering where the areas are, players that are not threating (aka centre circle) fouls are just fouls, if a player has a chance of getting to the goal, yellow - i expect that, but a foul that isn't a booking in the centre circle infront of my back foor (few feet away) is. the wing one shouldn't have been a booking, shirt tug yellow card, player had lots of cover. thats what i'm pointing at as a game thing, it is basing it on position.

they arn't being forced to make these fouls, players just seem to be making them

[Apos]

If you STILL think it is hard coded against the user, then there's really no help for you.

I don't think it's hard coded against the user. But I do think it's coded in such a way that in the long-term it affects the user much more than the AI teams. Same goes for injuries,especially injuries actually but that's another thing.

[wwfan]

i dont think it is against the user, just think it isn't considering where the areas are, players that are not threating (aka centre circle) fouls are just fouls, if a player has a chance of getting to the goal, yellow - i expect that, but a foul that isn't a booking in the centre circle infront of my back foor (few feet away) is. the wing one shouldn't have been a booking, shirt tug yellow card, player had lots of cover. thats what i'm pointing at as a game thing, it is basing it on position.

they arn't being forced to make these fouls, players just seem to be making them

They'll be fouling and being booked for a reason. You just need to work out what it is. We've provided copious reasons for why it might be happening, and evidence that it doesn't happen to everyone. Your replies suggest it is to do with where the fouls are taking place, which further suggests you are getting stretched. It is now down to you to either fix it or live with your system resulting in many cards.

I don't think it's hard coded against the user. But I do think it's coded in such a way that in the long-term it affects the user much more than the AI teams. Same goes for injuries,especially injuries actually but that's another thing.

If you believe that, then you'll never work out how to stop it.

[Apos]

If you believe that, then you'll never work out how to stop it.

Yes,I bet it is my fault that I had 4 injuries within a game. Absolutely. Especially when I didn't play fast,I didn't tackle hard and I didn't push high either...but I guess it is always our fault and the match engine of FM11 that was kept is flawless. Funny though that this particular engine had countless complains since last year.

As long as we are close to the real life statistics it means we are ok,right?

[wwfan]

There are copious reasons you might have had so many injuries. One is bad luck. However, you need to realise the ME does not know which team is the user team and which team is the AI team. If you are consistently getting more injuries than the AI teams average, it is down to the instructions you are providing the ME.

There are always reasons for repeating patterns. Blaming the ME is not just fallacy, but a total cop out. The moment you realise that a high proportion of your problems are off your own making, you have taken the first step towards solving them.

[Apos]

There are copious reasons you might have had so many injuries. One is bad luck. However, you need to realise the ME does not know which team is the user team and which team is the AI team. If you are consistently getting more injuries than the AI teams average, it is down to the instructions you are providing the ME.

There are always reasons for repeating patterns. Blaming the ME is not just fallacy, but a total cop out. The moment you realise that a high proportion of your problems are off your own making, you have taken the first step towards solving them.

Really? Are the matches where the AI team scores with 1 shot after 90 minutes of being dominated whereas our players miss 15-25 shots throughout the game our fault as well? I didn't know that...

[wwfan]

Really? Are the matches where the AI team scores with 1 shot after 90 minutes of being dominated whereas our players miss 15-25 shots throughout the game our fault as well? I didn't know that...

Unfortunately, yes they are. You have developed a tactical system that produces a lot of shots but fails to successfully break down a solid defence. As the match progresses, your players will become more frustrated at their inability to convert and the opposition will become confident that they might get something out of the game. As you don't have a Plan B, this will repeat and repeat.

There are other more mechanic reasons that might cause this as well (i.e. poor mentality slider settings), but the above is the core reason.

[Apos]

Unfortunately, yes they are. You have developed a tactical system that produces a lot of shots but fails to successfully break down a solid defence. As the match progresses, your players will become more frustrated at their inability to convert and the opposition will become confident that they might get something out of the game. As you don't have a Plan B, this will repeat and repeat.

There are other more mechanic reasons that might cause this as well (i.e. poor mentality slider settings), but the above is the core reason.

Riiiight...

The reason is something called rubber band effect. Go look it up,even though I don't think it makes much sense since you don't seem to be taking off your rose-tinted googles for a second lately.

[wwfan]

Riiiight...

The reason is something called rubber band effect. Go look it up,even though I don't think it makes much sense since you don't seem to be taking off your rose-tinted googles for a second lately.

There's no rubber banding in FM.

Quite simply, if it happens to you, but not to others (including myself) then there are three possible conclusions.

1: You are amazingly brilliant at FM, with a secret rubber band effect activating in your matches to stop you unrealistically dominating and to keep the game competitive through unfair means. The rest of us aren't as good as you, so do not experience the effect.

2: It happens to you because of something or things you, but not others, are doing. If you stopped doing these things, you'd stop seeing these patterns.

3: It happens to everyone, but some of us deliberately lie about it to try and wind you up.

[heathxxx]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

There's far more a human player can do in the game, than the AI can.

The AI in FM isn't as sophisticated as people seem to think it is. It doesn't cheat and it's not as clever as this...

Meanwhile, the answer to all your problems, indeed EVERYTHING... is of course, 42.

[Apos]

There's no rubber banding in FM.

Quite simply, if it happens to you, but not to others (including myself) then there are three possible conclusions.

1: You are amazingly brilliant at FM, with a secret rubber band effect activating in your matches to stop you unrealistically dominating and to keep the game competitive through unfair means. The rest of us aren't as good as you, so do not experience the effect.

2: It happens to you because of something or things you, but not others, are doing. If you stopped doing these things, you'd stop seeing these patterns.

3: It happens to everyone, but some of us deliberately lie about it to try and wind you up.

When word-class players miss shots that a school boy would have on target,I find that very hard to believe. Sorry. There have been plenty of occasions where the match engine has proved that it has a rubber band effect. Go take a look at that 1-1 draw with the AI team having 0 shots that is on one of the threads here. That has to be the most hillarious proof actually.

So I'll take the 3d choise if you don't mind.

[wwfan]

When word-class players miss shots that a school boy would have on target,I find that very hard to believe. Sorry. There have been plenty of occasions where the match engine has proved that it has a rubber band effect. Go take a look at that 1-1 draw with the AI team having 0 shots that is on one of the threads here. That has to be the most hillarious proof actually.

So I'll take the 3d choise if you don't mind.

There's none so blind that will not see.

We can't help if you don't listen.

[Apos]

We can't help if you don't listen.

And I (I won't say we because I don't represent the others who have replied so far) can't listen if you actually don't help.

The way you reply is like me (and the rest who replied on this thread) made a random tactic,took random players and are posting to cry about how the game cheats us. Like I (and I suppose we) haven't tried different tactics and different approaches or different trainings.

So unless you got an actual thing to propose in order to stop these things that you never encounter yourself,no,I can't really see any actual logic to those replies. The "it's your tactics" reply is getting old. And no,it's not always the sliders,unless you imply that the around 4-6 people that have replied positively about this thread are using the exact same sliders and are encountering the same problem.

Anyway,this doesn't go anywhere.I might as well drop it here.

[wwfan]

I have helped by writing a pretty extensive guide to tactics, available in the Tactics Forum. It's stickied under Tactical Theorems and Frameworks. Plus multiple other threads and advice. It's also worthwhile reading anything by Heath, Cleon or SFraser.

If you haven't read them, I suggest you do.

And I haven't implied anything about exact same slider settings. There is a style of play that tends to produce the phenomena you experience. The settings do not have to be exactly matched.

[themadsheep2001]

I have helped by writing a pretty extensive guide to tactics, available in the Tactics Forum. It's stickied under Tactical Theorems and Frameworks. Plus multiple other threads and advice. It's also worthwhile reading anything by Heath, Cleon or SFraser.

If you haven't read them, I suggest you do.

And I haven't implied anything about exact same slider settings. There is a style of play that tends to produce the phenomena you experience. The settings do not have to be exactly matched.

Got to be honest, I've never understood why people are so determined to decide the game is fault/out to get them, rather than actually really looking at their own failing, or encompassing they might be wrong.

As an aside, I actually think the flaws of the ME create these schools of thought. I look at some of the "super" tactics, (with setting that i know are just not going to work properly, that eventually fail when the AI reacts from your increased rep, and I think, if the ME was more robust, or the AI was better equipped, these approaches would get ripped apart in the first half an hour of a match

[edgar555]

And I (I won't say we because I don't represent the others who have replied so far) can't listen if you actually don't help.

The way you reply is like me (and the rest who replied on this thread) made a random tactic,took random players and are posting to cry about how the game cheats us. Like I (and I suppose we) haven't tried different tactics and different approaches or different trainings.

So unless you got an actual thing to propose in order to stop these things that you never encounter yourself,no,I can't really see any actual logic to those replies. The "it's your tactics" reply is getting old. And no,it's not always the sliders,unless you imply that the around 4-6 people that have replied positively about this thread are using the exact same sliders and are encountering the same problem.

Anyway,this doesn't go anywhere.I might as well drop it here.

The reason you should drop it is that you're wrong and can't see/admit it. The fact that it's only 4-6 people getting these results rather than the thousands on these forums should tell you all you need to know.

In all my time on this forum, I can assure that no one knows and understands the game better than wwfan, Cleon, Heath and the late SFraser. If the first three are saying something, you should listen and take their advice, because your game will improve from doing so. Seriously take the time to read their threads/guides etc. Or just carry on being wrong. The choice is yours. Same goes for the OP.

[wwfan]

Got to be honest, I've never understood why people are so determined to decide the game is fault/out to get them, rather than actually really looking at their own failing, or encompassing they might be wrong.

As an aside, I actually think the flaws of the ME create these schools of thought. I look at some of the "super" tactics, (with setting that i know are just not going to work properly, that eventually fail when the AI reacts from your increased rep, and I think, if the ME was more robust, or the AI was better equipped, these approaches would get ripped apart in the first half an hour of a match

That I would agree with. We pretty much conclusively proved that logical decision making in the context of the match massively out-performed all "super-tactics" in the latter days of FML. Unfortunately, it was too late to save it. Of further misfortune is the AI's inability to do so with any degree of sophistication. Which leaves it, in match statistic terms at least, at the mercy of the user.

Making it sophisticated enough to employ logical and individually tailored strategies that relate to the match context is a huge challenge.

[kingpug]

That I would agree with. We pretty much conclusively proved that logical decision making in the context of the match massively out-performed all "super-tactics" in the latter days of FML. Unfortunately, it was too late to save it. Of further misfortune is the AI's inability to do so with any degree of sophistication. Which leaves it, in match statistic terms at least, at the mercy of the user.

Making it sophisticated enough to employ logical and individually tailored strategies that relate to the match context is a huge challenge.

Where's this proof then, or is that what you funnily enough "forgot" to save? I think people like you forget this is indeed a game that you don't controll like FIFA, this is pretty much a game based on data so if your striker misses an open goal I fail to see how that's the users problem, if my defender does a dodgy backpass and I concede a goal I also fail to see how there is anything I could've or should've done to avoid this, you seem to think everything that happens in the game is completely down to the person playing it.

Now I'm not expecting you to admit this, but FM is not a perfect game in 100% working order nor is the ME for that matter but I guess if something bad happens it's just the user right? and not the perfect game that replicates real football with deadly accuracy.

Oh look, my player got a straight red card even though his tackling is on easy, guess that's just me being crap at the game right? I also fail to see how giving instructions causes injuries but again, a player getting injured is OUR fault and not the games, honestly mate, with the defending you do of FM I'm getting the feeling you pretty much made it and funded it entirely on your own, I guess it's also my fault that players who go 40 games without injury suddenly get injured 2 days before a major final right? my keeper has 3 shots against him and conceded 3 goals because it's my fault, you're one of the biggest yet saddest fanboys I have ever seen so keep up the good work.

[ham_aka_stam]

No need for that kind of post kingpug.

Post with some respect for everyone else please.

On the subject of your post, FM isn't a perfect game, no-one will ever tell you that it is, the ME is flawed, as is the AI. That doesn't meant that everything that happens is the user's fault, everything that you've mentioned happens in real life too. Players get injured before important competitions after being injury free for ages, keepers concede every shot sometimes. But that doesn't mean that you as a manager can't take some measures to limit some things happening.

[lukino99]

First league game, 50 yellow cards... way too much! New game on new patch.

[G_D_K]

Waaay.... tooo....many for me... (my team only....half way through season, I've gotten 74 yellows (10ish reds, all through double-yellow). Next highest team is like 47ish. Playing BSN Stafford Rangers in 2013/14 season, and just can't seem to escape a game without picking up 3 or 4 at least.

For last match of the 2013 calendar year, I was short four starters through their 5th yellow of the season. Add on top of that injuries, I was lucky to field a squad