Thomasmc135

Too many "dodgy" results.

67 posts in this topic

Last time I started a thread about my side having too many "dodgy" results, it was closed without reason. I believe the moderator called it a 'non-issue' - despite me having an issue. Okay, so I deleted that save game and embarked on a new one. However, the same [B]issue [/B]exists. Now, I know most users will respond telling me that it's 'my tactics', but those are the people with their head's buried in the sand.


[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dt5Wz.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/s8NDx.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AAaEm.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/g9CMO.jpg[/IMG]

These are just 4 examples of "dodgy" results, but I could post hundreds more. I understand that people don't want the game to be decided by having the better squad, but when results are so blatantly contrived it leaves a bad taste. My teams are always superior, yet I find that the game tries its hardest to create a negative result. The last screenshot takes the biscuit completely.

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I suggest you make an attempt to watch some real life football :rolleyes:

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They arent dodgy. These threads come up every so often and are closed because there isnt an issue. because they post their save and someones goes and wins the next bunch of matches

3 of those games you have 20+ shots on goal and at best you get 7 on target. There is your issue right, there and that isnt down to the game.

The reason this thread would get closed is because youve already decided that you cant be at fault and that anyone who disagrees has their head in the sand.

Upload your game save.

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It's true that you can feel cheated when you dominate but only get 1 point. But rather than putting the blame on the game you need to actually watch the game carefully and see why that kind of result is happening to you. More often than not it will be that your opponent is very defensive while your team is very offensive.
So you keep on attacking but can't create good enough chances due to the sturdy defence. Then you allow a goal or two because your opponent sneaks in with counter attack.

When you start feeling that you are hitting a wall even though you are dominating, then you need to pull back a bit and let your opponent come out of the hole.

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[quote name='themadsheep2001']They arent dodgy. These threads come up every so often and are closed because there isnt an issue. because they post their save and someones goes and wins the next bunch of matches

3 of those games you have 20+ shots on goal and at best you get 7 on target. There is your issue right, there and that isnt down to the game.

The reason this thread would get closed is because youve already decided that you cant be at fault and that anyone who disagrees has their head in the sand.

Upload your game save.[/QUOTE]

Erm, I've posted examples from several save games, so I'm just showing that it isn't due to one specific squad. My strikers have the required attributes to score consistently, though fail to do so. I've even downloaded "super" tactics to see, yet it still occurs. I've no doubt that someone could win most of the matches when you consider it's the Moldovan league. However, how would that help me?

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[quote name='Cougar2010']I suggest you make an attempt to watch some real life football :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

What does this thread have to do with "real life football"? Oh sorry, you mean to say that there are examples of teams drawing. Wow, clutch at straws, why don't you?

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Good grief.

The likely hood is that [b]it is[/b] actually your tactics. You may be having alot of shots, but I would hazard a guess that plenty of them are coming from outside the box becuase your tactics aren't enabling you to create more clear opportunities.

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[quote name='Thomasmc135']Erm, I've posted examples from several save games, so I'm just showing that it isn't due to one specific squad. My strikers have the required attributes to score consistently, though fail to do so. I've even downloaded "super" tactics to see, yet it still occurs. I've no doubt that someone could win most of the matches when you consider it's the Moldovan league. However, how would that help me?[/QUOTE]
You've pick isolated games from several saves, i already noticed that, doesnt change the fact that you are having huge amounts of shots , with very few on target. That's scattergun, usually a high number of poor quality attempts. Off the bat that sounds like a brute force approach, from whatever "super" tactic you downloaded. Consider using a more measured approach, a good approach, coupled with a good well balanced side will do very well most of the time. If you have the good squad, then you should be looking at your approach.

But you're not looking for help though. You've decided that you cant be at fault

Also the moderator who closed the thread, works on the TC.

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i got some computer generated ones
[IMG]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/524905395734796940/F1F98B50D9528B55EFC095A40E1FAAF6E8E6B6C2/[/IMG]
chelsea scraped top 6 that season...
from same season
[IMG]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/524906243852019461/5E843D4038D7F7DE35921F286D20D3AE49994D1C/[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/524904249323874456/9515ABA4DC0C5094C0F4EBEE6A8712471E5A08A9/[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/649878595659287663/3C3366436A4432B275E423AAEE540B4D4BED2593/[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/648751999045289354/C33F2CE6F7ECFE1933E923B886F906B51674CE01/[/IMG]
just... crazy

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Aberdeen - Elgin result could happen in really life. Nothing dodgy there.

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It looks like you aren't able to convert shots into goals. These are my conversion ratios:[B]

Goals / Shots: [/B]56 / 331 (1 goal in 5.9 shots)

[B]Goals / Shots on Target:[/B] 56 / 134 (1 goal in 2.4 SOT)

If you are significantly higher than those stats, then you have identified your problem. Please have a check to see if this is the issue. If so, you'll need to change your strategic and tactical approach to matches.

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[quote name='smith69gers']Aberdeen - Elgin result could happen in really life. Nothing dodgy there.[/QUOTE]

I was Elgin. You don't see anything wrong with 24 shots on goal and only scoring 1 goal?

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[quote name='wwfan']It looks like you aren't able to convert shots into goals. These are my conversion ratios:[B]

Goals / Shots: [/B]56 / 331 (1 goal in 5.9 shots)

[B]Goals / Shots on Target:[/B] 56 / 134 (1 goal in 2.4 SOT)

If you are significantly higher than those stats, then you have identified your problem. Please have a check to see if this is the issue. If so, you'll need to change your strategic and tactical approach to matches.[/QUOTE]

I have several screenshots to post, but I'll need help identifying the problem.

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[B]Player instructions

[/B][URL="http://i.imgur.com/Jp4A9.jpg"]http://i.imgur.com/Jp4A9.jpg [/URL]

[URL]http://i.imgur.com/AK2WL.jpg[/URL]

[URL="http://i.imgur.com/KFzsH.jpg"]http://i.imgur.com/KFzsH.jpg [/URL]

[URL="http://i.imgur.com/IScwI.jpg"]http://i.imgur.com/IScwI.jpg
[/URL]
[URL="http://i.imgur.com/PmuwF.jpg"]http://i.imgur.com/PmuwF.jpg [/URL]

[URL="http://i.imgur.com/2E76R.jpg"]http://i.imgur.com/2E76R.jpg
[/URL]
[URL="http://i.imgur.com/Jp4A9.jpg"][/URL]I haven't posted all of my player's instructions, but only because they don't differ from the ones above. As you can see, I have 'rarely' for all players.

[B]Matches

[/B][URL="http://i.imgur.com/bzclX.jpg"]Juventus Analysis

[/URL][URL="http://i.imgur.com/mD3Gg.jpg"]Tighina[/URL]

2 goals from 6 shots for them.

[URL="http://i.imgur.com/neHRz.jpg"]Tighina Analysis

[/URL][URL="http://i.imgur.com/PsB81.jpg"]Olympiakos Analysis

[/URL][URL="http://i.imgur.com/AL1Xt.jpg"]Milsami

[/URL]2 goals from 2 shots.

Now, I can assure you that my defence is anything but poor.

So, how can I stop them from shooting from outside the box?

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It's very simple. Yu have your whole team trying to make through passes to the two FCs, with nobody else making runs into space to open up options or angles. Consequently, all the opposition need to do is crowd out your front two and you'l struggle to score.

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[quote name='wwfan']It's very simple. Yu have your whole team trying to make through passes to the two FCs, with nobody else making runs into space to open up options or angles. Consequently, all the opposition need to do is crowd out your front two and you'l struggle to score.[/QUOTE]How do I remedy the problem? Should I reduce the frequency of through balls?

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You also have very big mentality gaps, meaning there'll be a lot of space between your strata, resulting in you struggling to combat quick counters.

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[quote name='wwfan']It looks like you aren't able to convert shots into goals. These are my conversion ratios:[B]Goals / Shots: [/B]56 / 331 (1 goal in 5.9 shots)[B]Goals / Shots on Target:[/B] 56 / 134 (1 goal in 2.4 SOT)If you are significantly higher than those stats, then you have identified your problem. Please have a check to see if this is the issue. If so, you'll need to change your strategic and tactical approach to matches.[/QUOTE]My stats aren't too different from your's. 54 goals from 367 shots. 54 goals from 141 on target.

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[quote name='Thomasmc135']How do I remedy the problem? Should I reduce the frequency of through balls?[/QUOTE]

Personally, I'd tear up the tactic and start again. It has a lot of issues. FWRs, mentality gaps, passing style, a massive reliance on the front two. It might keep the ball and generate a high shot count, but it is not a good tactic in terms of movement and positioning.

Have you read any of the stickied tactical overview threads in the tactical forum? They'd really help you.

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[quote name='wwfan']Personally, I'd tear up the tactic and start again. It has a lot of issues. FWRs, mentality gaps, passing style, a massive reliance on the front two. It might keep the ball and generate a high shot count, but it is not a good tactic in terms of movement and positioning. Have you read any of the stickied tactical overview threads in the tactical forum? They'd really help you.[/QUOTE]

I skimmed the one by Cleon, but I have a feeling that I'll need to read it in-depth to solve the issues.

I can't go on with the obscene amount of draws - it's just ridiculous.

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[quote name='Thomasmc135']My stats aren't too different from yours. 54 goals from 367 shots. 54 goals from 141 on target.[/QUOTE]

If that's the case, then these lots of shots / few goals games must be few and far between. What's your defensive record like?

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[quote name='wwfan']If that's the case, then these lots of shots / few goals games must be few and far between. What's your defensive record like?[/QUOTE]Generally, it's good. However, far too frequently a side has 1 or 2 shots on target and scores. I know that occasionally a side will make the most of their opportunities, but the key word is 'occasionally'. Perhaps it's something to do with my tactic, who knows?

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If I had to the guess the problem, you have 4 players who are pretty much only dedicated to offense, and your central midfielders aren't very defensive minded either. If any of your defenders are caught out of position (not particularly rare since you're not playing with world class players with Sheriff and Elgin), your defense has pretty much no protection. In that situation, its not hard to see how a deep defending team playing the counter can take advantage of a lack of concentration to strike

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[quote name='slich']If I had to the guess the problem, you have 4 players who are pretty much only dedicated to offense, and your central midfielders aren't very defensive minded either. If any of your defenders are caught out of position (not particularly rare since you're not playing with world class players with Sheriff and Elgin), your defense has pretty much no protection. In that situation, its not hard to see how a deep defending team playing the counter can take advantage of a lack of concentration to strike[/QUOTE]Doesn't explain how I only score 1 goal from 20+ shots. Also, with Elgin, the year was 2028 so I think you're being extremely presumptuous with your 'not playing with world class players' comment.

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20/5, 20/4 and 20/7 are all extremely poor conversion ratios and tells me everything I need to know about those results. I'd say that anything below 50% on-target ratio and 33% goal from on target is poor. Since scoring four goals or more is relatively rare, I'd say that 18/9/3 (shots/on goal/goals) should be what you see after a good match. If you create more goalscoring opportunities than that during a match, the likelyhood of scoring more goals does not increase significantly. Thus, you should/will see that when you do score more than 3 goals in a match this does not come from creating more shots but from having a higher goal from shots on goal ratio or a higher shots on goal from shots ratio, or both.

So tactically, you need to create fewer but better shots, and to do so your players need to pick their options more carefully and be more patient. So the tempo must be slow, the mentalities of the forwards must be less attacking and they need to make better decisions as for when to hit that through ball, so telling them to do so whenever they can is not a good idea.

Another tactical problem which reinforces the problem you're experiencing is that the midfielders in 4-2-4 are entirely useless. With attacking mentalities they create giant holes behind them, with defensive mentalities they don't contribute to the attack at all and with balanced mentalities (like in your tactic) they do both and neither. The solution is to move them back to DMC positions and make their mentalities more attacking. That way they often control the midfield entirely while being the 3rd and 4th central defenders when you're defending.

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[quote name='wwfan']It looks like you aren't able to convert shots into goals. These are my conversion ratios:[B]

Goals / Shots: [/B]56 / 331 (1 goal in 5.9 shots)

[B]Goals / Shots on Target:[/B] 56 / 134 (1 goal in 2.4 SOT)

[/QUOTE]

Where do you check that, again?

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View Club / Information / Stats

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[quote name='shirajzl']Where do you check that, again?[/QUOTE]

View club >> Info >> Stats

too slow again :(

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Hah, that Wigan/City match looks awesome.

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[quote name='Thomasmc135']Doesn't explain how I only score 1 goal from 20+ shots. Also, with Elgin, the year was 2028 so I think you're being extremely presumptuous with your 'not playing with world class players' comment.[/QUOTE]

You realize I posted right after you were talking about why your defense giving up goals right? That's why I talked about the defensive problems you might be having, and I didn't mention the offensive part of it because wwfan was already talking about it and seems like hes much more knowledgeable than I am.

Not sure why you say I'm being extremely presumptuous, its more that I didn't realize that you were in 2028 with one team, considering you stated in the original post that you were embarking on a new save and had two different teams posted. Honest mistake buddy :lol:

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As a Liverpool fan, I've watched a lot of their games this season. Check out the stats from their matches and you will see that your results are not dodgy at all. The number of times they have dominated possession and had over 20 shots and still not won games is crazy, but Kenny D doesn't post on a forum saying how unfair it all is.

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[quote name='Ackter']Hah, that Wigan/City match looks awesome.[/QUOTE]

I thought the same, can you imagine being there.

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I posted a thread myself recently highlighting a "dodgy" result (link below).

[URL]http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/296729-This-game-can-be-so-unfair....[/URL]

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[quote name='Thomasmc135']I was Elgin. You don't see anything wrong with 24 shots on goal and only scoring 1 goal?[/QUOTE]

Surely the more important stat is their 4 SOT to your 5?

In the St Mirren game it was 2 SOT to your 4?

Nothing wrong there as far as I can see - suggest you look at the match analysis screen to see where the shots are being taken from

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As a dons fan i can say 100% that the Elgin result is very likely with our club :D

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[quote name='chile_paul']Surely the more important stat is their 4 SOT to your 5?In the St Mirren game it was 2 SOT to your 4?Nothing wrong there as far as I can see - suggest you look at the match analysis screen to see where the shots are being taken from[/QUOTE]I already know where they're being taken from. They're being taken long range, despite me having every player set to 'rarely' and creative freedom at the same level. If anything, that seems more dodgy.

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[quote name='Thomasmc135']I already know where they're being taken from. They're being taken long range, despite me having every player set to 'rarely' and creative freedom at the same level. If anything, that seems more dodgy.[/QUOTE]

Low creative freedom will of course only make them decide to try panicky shots even more often. They choose this option when the four guys up front are all marked or have finished their runs already. That's a telltale sign that the team has no space to work in and that the instructions they are being told to do are difficult to follow through.

Again, it's your tactics! Many shots do not equal a good tactic. Neither do high possession. It may work fine for the most part but evidently you encounter AI strategies that you don't cope too well with, and you are showing no will to do anything about it...

So you can either tweak your tactic to work better in the type of matches that you're struggling with, or you can adopt a TC&Shout strategy to do the same. In either case, it's a tactical and/or motivational issue (if you are correct that it isn't a player issue) - not a form of rubberbanding.

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[quote name='BiggusD']
Again, it's your tactics! Many shots do not equal a good tactic. Neither do high possession. It may work fine for the most part but evidently you encounter AI strategies that you don't cope too well with, and you are showing no will to do anything about it...
[/QUOTE]

The problem seems to be that many shots and high possession used to equal good tactic in many previous FMs and even earlier CMs. Judging by numerous topics on more or less the same issue on the forums, people are having difficulty adapting to the new thinking process.

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[quote name='BiggusD']Low creative freedom will of course only make them decide to try panicky shots even more often. They choose this option when the four guys up front are all marked or have finished their runs already. That's a telltale sign that the team has no space to work in and that the instructions they are being told to do are difficult to follow through.

Again, it's your tactics! Many shots do not equal a good tactic. Neither do high possession. It may work fine for the most part but evidently you encounter AI strategies that you don't cope too well with, and you are showing no will to do anything about it...

So you can either tweak your tactic to work better in the type of matches that you're struggling with, or you can adopt a TC&Shout strategy to do the same. In either case, it's a tactical and/or motivational issue (if you are correct that it isn't a player issue) - not a form of rubberbanding.[/QUOTE]

Exactly this. IMO you shouldn't need to instruct all players to rarely shoot from distance to improve chance creation. Actually increasing options in the attacking phase means your players won't see a long shot as the best option so often.

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[quote name='Thomasmc135']I already know where they're being taken from. They're being taken long range, despite me having every player set to 'rarely' and creative freedom at the same level. If anything, that seems more dodgy.[/QUOTE]

If there aren't any other options available to players, then they will have no other option than to take a long shot, despite you saying that you only want them to take long shots rarely - you need to work out how to get more of your players into more attacking positions to provide support, so that they have more options available rather than just shooting.

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Here mate you should come watch Bradford City we draw at home nearly every week!!!

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this game throws out freaky results all the time.
2015/16
bury and yeovil are sat in blue square after back to back religations (11/12 and 12/13) while luton went the other way and ended up in league 1, east stirling got promoted to SD2.. then got relegated again LOL
seriously though i have given up caring about these results, after winning the scottish league challange cup beating half of SD1 with east stirling in the process

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I just lost in the Europa League final to Athletic Club. The match was really even, but in the 74th minute my defender decides to turn away from a low cross so that it can hit his backside. Brilliant.

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[quote name='Thomasmc135']I just lost in the Europa League final to Athletic Club. The match was really even, but in the 74th minute my defender decides to turn away from a low cross so that it can hit his backside. Brilliant.[/QUOTE]

The problem with crosses is that unlike other passes, they're generally a bit of a free-for-all. Whoever can get on the end of it sticks it in, and it doesn't have to be aimed at anyone.

FM seems to have problems dealing with this. An attacker or defender will "claim" the cross - in the match view their name will appear over them, as it does when a player is actually in possession - and everyone else will act like there's no chance of them getting the ball.

Sometimes it means one of your STs getting hit in the face with the ball and making no attempt to head it in: sometimes it means crappy own goals.


Don't try and link that bug with your earlier whining

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[quote name='scott MUFC']this game throws out freaky results all the time.
2015/16
bury and yeovil are sat in blue square after back to back religations (11/12 and 12/13) while luton went the other way and ended up in league 1, east stirling got promoted to SD2.. then got relegated again LOL
seriously though i have given up caring about these results, after winning the scottish league challange cup beating half of SD1 with east stirling in the process[/QUOTE]

How are these freaky? Bury haven't played above L1 since 1957. Yeovil were non-league as recently as 2002. Luton won the League Cup in 1987 and played in the top flight until 1992. None of the patterns you mentioned are even slightly far-fetched.


[QUOTE]I just lost in the Europa League final to Athletic Club. The match was really even, but in the 74th minute my defender decides to turn away from a low cross so that it can hit his backside. Brilliant.[/QUOTE]

It's a bug. You'll have scored from it too. THis kind of moan really detracts from your original problem, which is tactical, and makes it seem just as if you don't think you should ever lose. You'll not get much sympathy if you really think the latter.

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Funny, when people see a "whining" thread there are 47 replies. When someone asks a similar question without an implicit criticism of the game 0 replies. Interesting....

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[quote name='Goaltie']Funny, when people see a "whining" thread there are 47 replies. When someone asks a similar question without an implicit criticism of the game 0 replies. Interesting....[/QUOTE]

Not all that interesting when you consider the whining threads generally contain over the top the statements that (some obviously by design) provoke comment. Asking questions that don't begin with the premise that something is broken with FM or that the AI cheats are more likely to get helpful responses in the T&T forum.

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bury getting relegated from league 1 isn't the problem, it is the fact they got relegated from league 2 the season after and keep losing in the playoffs and thier team is almost the same.
and bury have played above league 1. they were in the championship for 2 seasons in the late 90's

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